http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/02/23/20100223voodooists-attacked-at-haiti-ceremony.html

Quote :

"PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - Angry crowds in a seaside slum attacked a group of Voodoo practitioners Tuesday, pelting them with rocks and halting a ceremony meant to honor victims of last month's deadly earthquake. Voodooists gathered in Cite Soleil where thousands of quake survivors live in tents and depend on food aid. Praying and singing, the group was trying to conjure spirits to guide lost souls when a crowd of Evangelicals started shouting. Some threw rocks while others urinated on Voodoo symbols. When police left, the crowd destroyed the altars and Voodoo offerings of food and rum."

To me that seems irrational to try to disrupt a ceremony to mourn the dead.

Quote :

""There's absolutely a heightened spiritual conflict between Christianity and Voodoo since the quake," said Pastor Frank Amedia of the Miami-based Touch Heaven Ministries who has been distributing food in Haiti and proselytizing. "We would give food to the needy in the short-term but if they refused to give up Voodoo, I'm not sure we would continue to support them in the long term because we wouldn't want to perpetuate that practice. We equate it witchcraft, which is contrary to the Gospel.""

This part is what struck me the hardest. I thought Christianity had completely given up the idea of real witchcraft. What is the distinction between a valid religion and witchcraft?

Poll: Do you consider Vodou a valid as other religions, yes or no?

2/28/2010 7:47:10 PM

Vodou

NO.


[Edited on February 28, 2010 at 7:49 PM. Reason : ]

2/28/2010 7:48:59 PM

Quote :

"I thought Christianity had completely given up the idea of real witchcraft. What is the distinction between a valid religion and witchcraft?"

pssh, ha - why do you think hard core Fundamentalists rail against things like Harry Potter and teenage Wicaan groups? Oh yeah - because they believe in things like demons, witchcraft and the occult (and the devil)

Quote :

"Poll: Do you consider Vodou a valid as other religions, yes or no?"

It's just as invalid as all other religions

[Edited on February 28, 2010 at 7:54 PM. Reason : . ]

2/28/2010 7:54:19 PM

as someone who has talked to practitioners of vodou in haiti and stayed in the home of vodou practitioner, it is hard to have this conversation without a clear understanding of what vodou is. vodou is not what you see in movies or on tv shows, it is much different than that. in addition, vodou is practiced very differently and some houngans and mambos (priests and priestesses) take advantage of people and take their money (similar to some leaders in most faiths who abuse their power). In those cases vodou is a religion based on fear, where one has to give goods and money basically as protection (this is incredible simplified and maybe i will expand on it later). The way others practice the religion it is not too different from other religions, in fact much of vodou comes from the catholic church's influence. Each loa (demi-god) is associated with catholic saints, and many churches (especially catholic) are filled with vodou imagery that is immediately noticeable if you know what you are looking for.

i think many christians believe in evil spirits, and i think that they see evil manifested in the way that some houngans and mambos take advantage of people and prey on their fear. there is a saying that haiti is 99% christian and 100% vodou. obviously this is an exaggeration, but even many christians in haiti are nervous of vodou and try to stay away. i can't say how the incident mentioned started, but i have personally been in church services in parts of haiti where mambos and houngans tried to disrupt things with drums and have heard stories of worse.

i obviously don't believe in vodou but i don't see how it is less "valid" than some other religions. i think any religion where people are taken advantage of for money (also looking your way scientologists) is deplorable, and those that use vodou as a tool of fear and manipulation are evil, but its not always like you see it in the movies.

[Edited on February 28, 2010 at 9:11 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2010 9:09:30 PM

Voodoo might be. Vodou, isn't. Any religion that can't spell its own name right is bullshit

2/28/2010 9:12:18 PM

Quote :

"Voodoo might be. Vodou, isn't. Any religion that can't spell its own name right is bullshit"

Looking it up on Wikipedia it says "Anglicised as Voodoo"

Does that mean you don't consider España a valid country because they can't spell Spain right?

2/28/2010 9:17:21 PM

generally if you are talking about haiti vodou is correct and if talking about louisiana or somewhere you would use voodoo. i don't know if this is an official rule, but every book i've read on the subject has made the distinction.

2/28/2010 9:26:56 PM

Quote :

"houngans and mambos (priests and priestesses) take advantage of people and take their money (similar to some leaders in most faiths who abuse their power). In those cases vodou is a religion based on fear, where one has to give goods and money basically as protection."

Oh, it's just like christianity

3/1/2010 12:00:17 AM

... and Islam, and Judaism, and Hinduism, and Buddhism, and Scientology, and the GOP, and the Democratic Party, and Libertarianism, and Communism, and Socialism, and Anarchy, and Atheism and Ismism, and Ismismism and so on and so forth for eternity until people stop trusting that people have anything except their own interests at heart.

3/1/2010 12:12:12 AM

individualism?

but I don't think buddhism claims that if you don't pay it money you'll go to a firey place after you die.

3/1/2010 12:18:46 AM

Quote :

"It's just as invalid as all other religions"

it doesn't change the meaning, but it's correct.

3/1/2010 12:27:11 AM

^^ Neither does Christianity but that doesn't prevent "practitioners" from fleecing the people:

http://www.americanbuddhist.net/miracle-working-buddhist-priestess-busted-fraud

3/1/2010 12:44:42 AM

Quote :

"We would give food to the needy in the short-term but if they refused to give up Voodoo, I'm not sure we would continue to support them in the long term because we wouldn't want to perpetuate that practice. We equate it witchcraft, which is contrary to the Gospel."

How does feeding them perpetuate Vodou? I mean, I guess if they refuse to give up their religion and you stop helping them get food, they may starve to death, and that would be the opposite of perpetuating Vodou, but that doesn't seem very charitable or Christian-like.



And to the original question, I'll share that, yes, Vodou is absolutely a valid religion. Possibly the most valid of them all...don't fuck with that shit...it's the real deal...

I mean, don't y'all watch movies?!?!?1!

3/1/2010 1:22:01 AM

Quote :

"while others urinated on Voodoo symbols."

Paging through my bible...Ahhh..here it is.....

"and the Lord spake to them..to wee wee on thy enemies until they are soaketh with thy holy water"

3/1/2010 1:43:51 AM

Quote :

"Poll: Do you consider Vodou a valid as other religions, yes or no?"

As valid? I'd have to say yes. I don't see how this aspect of Vodou differs from "healing prayer" in Christianity, or something like that. All religions that I know of make an appeal to the supernatural, or that which cannot be verified (or even falsified) in the real world. It's always the same conflict: reality versus fairy tales. This is a great example of how a religious person can so easily point out other religions as being ludicrous, but see no fault in their own.

Quote :

"[quote]but I don't think buddhism claims that if you don't pay it money you'll go to a firey place after you die."

Christianity doesn't even say that, really. The idea (in my experience) is that tithing will result in a general state of "being blessed," but not necessarily that you'll go to Hell. There's definitely pressure on people to fork over some money in church, in no-so-subtle ways.

3/1/2010 1:57:04 AM

Quote :

"What is the distinction between a valid religion and witchcraft?"

It depends. In one way calling something witchcraft is calling it a "valid religion," because you're suggesting that they can tap into supernatural powers by dealing with some likewise supernatural force, so therefore it must exist. The dude who can see the future can do so because he's in league with the devil, and that makes him bad.

In another interpretation "witchcraft" equates to tricks and false promises use by the practitioner (who knows that they're fake) to get undue money or respect from people. The dude who pretends to see the future knows he's pretending, but he can trick people into buying it and so he does, and that makes him bad. In this case it's not a valid religion, it's parlor tricks and con artistry.

3/1/2010 4:12:42 AM

"Valid religion."

Aha. Ha ha ha. Aha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha.

Christ.

3/1/2010 8:45:08 AM

^
I know, right? What's a "valid" religion?.... They're all valid. Dumb, but valid.

3/1/2010 9:00:53 AM

Voodoo's just weird. An outcropping of African religious traditions, Christian religious traditions, and frankly the religious traditions of anyone else who's come across the Caribbean in the last few hundred years.

So it's about as much of a religion as English is a language.

3/1/2010 9:10:18 AM

Quote :

" In one way calling something witchcraft is calling it a "valid religion," because you're suggesting that they can tap into supernatural powers by dealing with some likewise supernatural force, so therefore it must exist."

If I call someone a Christian, I am not suggesting that they are actually headed toward an eternal paradise because of their belief in a 2,000-year-old human sacrifice. Nor am I necessarily suggesting that they are practicing "con artistry". You're setting up a false dichotomy: Either a religion is real, or its adherents are liars. Of course, the third and far more prevalent category of people is that of those who truly believe in the tenants of their faith, however fatuous they may be (Christians and witch doctors alike, I might add).

3/1/2010 11:28:54 AM

^^Christianity did the same thing for its time in adopting some practices and dates from other religions around the Mediterranean. I mean, who believes Christ was born on Christmas any more? Or that a Christmas tree has anything to do with Christ? Not to mention there are plenty of other demi-gods, occasionally immaculately conceived, a few who can do the water to win trick, and many who are healers, some characters who do the back from the dead thing, who all came in religions before Christianity. It seems like all religions draw on the ones that came before them, so I don't think that alone is enough to make Vodou invalid.

3/1/2010 12:19:24 PM

Sorry, I didn't put the sarcasm tags on my post. Of course English is a language, and of course Voodoo should be considered a religion.

I apologize for not making that clearer.

3/1/2010 12:22:29 PM

My sarcasm meter may just not be functioning properly, I just woke up after a late night of studying for a midterm. Not firing on all cylinders yet.

3/1/2010 12:25:27 PM

Quote :

"Aha. Ha ha ha. Aha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha."

3/1/2010 12:41:09 PM

Quote :

"If I call someone a Christian, I am not suggesting that they are actually headed toward an eternal paradise because of their belief in a 2,000-year-old human sacrifice."

Sorry, let me be clear: I was explaining the points of view of Christians like the one who was calling Voodoo witchcraft. That is, from their perspective witchcraft either means a con act or an actual allegiance with the devil.

Quote :

"It seems like all religions draw on the ones that came before them, so I don't think that alone is enough to make Vodou invalid."

I think the problem for Voodoo is that the process took place over the course of fairly well-recorded history in the modern era. We watched it grab things from different religions and slap them together. Like you say, this probably isn't uncommon, but for most of the major religions it happened so long ago that we don't have such a clear record of the assembly process, if you will.

That said I don't think it's any less "valid," I guess, than anything else, and it's certainly more valid than blatant pyramid schemes like Scientology.

3/1/2010 1:44:42 PM

i don't think its only that its modern, most people don't think twice about mormonism. the real issue is that it's "different".

3/1/2010 2:46:35 PM

in before Matt Damon

Vodou is a very intersting topic, but Santeria is what you should be looking into.

3/2/2010 10:45:25 AM