it sucks. i can't get past the first chapter.

3/9/2010 2:04:38 AM

***SPOILER***

Jesus Dies

3/9/2010 2:09:23 AM

^i think you kinda missed the whole point of the book

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 2:18 AM. Reason : i started a while back, got stuck on Numbers i think, or chronicals, got really boring]

3/9/2010 2:14:14 AM

there's quite a bit in between leviticus and chronicles

3/9/2010 2:21:04 AM

check youversion.com and try their chronological bible. i find it a ton easier to read when the timeline is coherent.

3/9/2010 2:40:24 AM

just out of curiosity, I checked out youvirgin.com

apparently it's for sale

3/9/2010 2:45:19 AM

I think the story goes like this. Ymir creates Midgard and it was good. Osiris had a virgin birth. Then Asclepius, son of god, goes around the world healing people for a while. Dionysus does a few water into wine tricks. And at last Hercules is resurrected and then undergoes some form of apotheosis to end up in heaven.

The bible just repeats the same old stories that came before and have been repeated since. Read one and you've read 'em all. If your having trouble reading that one, just pick the King Homer Version, it makes for a more interesting read

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 2:46 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2010 2:45:38 AM

it is worth saying that the Jesus story actually happened, though

3/9/2010 2:49:57 AM

Right...

3/9/2010 2:56:26 AM

it's a matter of history, yo

not necessarily that He rose from the grave...that can be disputed

but the salient facts of His life are not disputed by any reputable historian, I don't think

3/9/2010 2:59:29 AM

Quote :

"***SPOILER*** Jesus Dies"

don't worry though because


***SPOILER***




he comes back at the end

Quote :

"but the salient facts of His his life are not disputed by any reputable historian, I don't think"

you don't need to capitalize a pronoun in the middle of a sentence, silly!

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 3:43 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2010 3:40:54 AM

^^http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory

Quote :

"The Christ myth theory (sometimes called the Christ myth, Jesus myth, or nonexistence hypothesis) is the contention that Jesus of Nazareth did not exist as a historical person, that the Jesus of early Christianity was a personification of an ideal saviour or mythical being to whom earthly events were later attached.[1] Proponents of a mythical origin of Christianity occasionally allow that some gospel material may have been drawn from a historical preacher or preachers, but that these individuals were not in any sense "the founder of Christianity". Rather, they contend that Christianity emerged organically from Hellenistic Judaism.[2] The proponents of the theory trace the evolution of Christianity through a conjectural understanding of the evolution of the New Testament literature and thus give primacy to the epistles over the gospels in determining the views of the earliest Christians. Attention is often drawn to a lack of contemporary allusions to Jesus in literature produced in the first century and ostensible parallels between Jesus' biography and those of mythological figures popular at the time, such as Dionysis, Osiris, and Mithras. The origins of the theory can be traced to the French Enlightenment thinkers Constantin-François Volney and Charles François Dupuis in the 1790s and the first academic advocate was the 19th century historian and theologian Bruno Bauer. Proponents such as Arthur Drews were notable in biblical studies during the early 20th century. And authors such as George Albert Wells, Robert M. Price, and Earl Doherty have recently re-popularised the theory among lay audiences."

It goes on to say it isn't supported among academic circles today though, but at the very least, some people have tried to make that case. I think the Jesus of mythology is probably based on a real guy, but who ended up getting stuck with all the same stories that every demi-god before and after him had. Much in the same way that I believe the Troy of the trojan war story was based on a real place, and that there may have been actually battles/wars with Trojans but probably over trade routes and other typical war rationale disputes rather than over a hot chick in a war that drew in supernatural beings to take sides on both sides.

3/9/2010 3:55:05 AM

^Except that's completely different.

1) The gospels were written by contemporaries and eyewitnesses.
2) The authors were killed for their claims, and lived through a lot of hardship. Not one backed down from the claims.
3) The whole region was filled with enemies who could easily contradict the accounts, who were also eyewitnesses, and were in authority at the time. Yet we have no record of a Roman or Jewish writing, from the time, that says "Yeah, Luke is full of crap and here's how I know."
4) Grand myths on this scale take time to develop from the re-telling of stories. 20-60 years from the death of Jesus is just not long enough.

There are plenty of other issues, but these aspects really do separate it from just about any other set of historical writings that old.

It doesn't make them all true. But there is a lot less wiggle-room to suggest wholesale fraud or innocent, mass mis-recollection of details by eyewitnesses both for and against the man.

3/9/2010 8:26:02 AM

Quote :

"WASTE OF TIME"

3/9/2010 9:19:54 AM

Quote :

"1) The gospels were written by contemporaries and eyewitnesses. 2) The authors were killed for their claims, and lived through a lot of hardship. Not one backed down from the claims. 3) The whole region was filled with enemies who could easily contradict the accounts, who were also eyewitnesses, and were in authority at the time. Yet we have no record of a Roman or Jewish writing, from the time, that says "Yeah, Luke is full of crap and here's how I know." 4) Grand myths on this scale take time to develop from the re-telling of stories. 20-60 years from the death of Jesus is just not long enough. "

These things apply to the deities of all the mesopotamian religions (primarily the Egyptians, babylonians, and akkadians).

3/9/2010 9:24:19 AM

No, they don't.

Followers of certain Babylonian or Egyptian gods claimed to be eyewitnesses of those gods, were forced to live lives of privation and hardship, and were martyred without changing their story? Their story about their god suggested that he lived as a flesh-and-blood human being that the enemies of their religion actually met and saw? And there were hundreds of these people that were eyewitnesses of the same things?

The people who made the claims, in those cases, were in power, or had wide societal acceptance.

The claims were not made at the same time of the events, when they could be contradicted by eyewitnesses unfriendly to their cause. I'm not even aware that there even was anybody unfriendly to their cause. Polytheistic idol-worshipers are not exactly known for their intolerance to new gods.

Those details change everything. Grand myths simply do not arise in the fashion Christianity did. Again, these things do not prove it is true, but there is a huge, fundamental difference there.

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 9:43 AM. Reason : a]

3/9/2010 9:36:02 AM

bonerjamz 04 makes a great point,

3/9/2010 9:36:36 AM

bible reader pro-tip : don't start with chapter 1. i recommend Romans

3/9/2010 9:50:16 AM

Quote :

"it is worth saying that the Jesus story actually happened, though"

Say what!?

3/9/2010 10:01:08 AM

Quote :

"GOD HAS SPOKEN"

3/9/2010 10:01:24 AM

BEGAT

BEGAT

BEGAT

3/9/2010 10:02:17 AM

I read the Bible from beginning to end a while back. Parts of the Old Testament do drag on a bit.

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 10:05 AM. Reason : []

3/9/2010 10:05:10 AM

it's no john grisham novel, that's for sure

3/9/2010 10:05:52 AM

and now it's time for another argument about religion brought to you by tww.....




SERIOUSLY FOLKS...give it up. Stop trying to convince anyone on here that Jesus is the son of God and stop trying to convince anyone on here that Jesus is no different than Santa Claus.
Let people believe or not believe what they want to...it is in no way harming you...geeeeeeeze

3/9/2010 10:07:17 AM

Tell that to parents who indoctrinate their children at a young malleable age.

3/9/2010 10:09:48 AM

Tell that to kids who are bitter than their parents exposed them to a belief system and now like to rant about it on teh intarwebs.

3/9/2010 10:11:28 AM

I don't see why its such a big deal. Just believe what the fuck you want to believe and let everyone else believe what they want to believe and we'd all get along much better.

3/9/2010 10:11:42 AM

^, ^^

exactly.

[/thread]

3/9/2010 10:15:00 AM

the people who annoy me most are those that claim enlightenment and like to rant and rave against those that choose a religion...i'm not aware of any religion that actively discourages evangelism so it's expected that i will encounter someone, somewhere, at some time, who will want to tell me about their particular belief system...but it seems that the anti-religion folks are the ones with their panties in a bunch all the time

Quote :

"WASTE OF TIME"

this makes you an ignorant moron (not surprising, given your viewpoints about most things)...you don't have to read the bible as a statement of truth, but understanding the belief system claimed by the majority of humans on this planet would make you less naïve (but then, you don't care if you're ignorant, do you?)

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 10:19 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2010 10:16:32 AM

Quote :

"BEGAT BEGAT BEGAT"

hahhahaha

3/9/2010 10:18:59 AM

Quote :

"I don't see why its such a big deal. Just believe what the fuck you want to believe and let everyone else believe what they want to believe and we'd all get along much better."

3/9/2010 10:24:55 AM

God has spoken.

3/9/2010 10:25:40 AM

3/9/2010 10:27:09 AM

^^^Because those people are in the majority.....

I think those arguments are being made for the sake of tww...seeing as how no one on here seems to be trying to blow anyone up for different beliefs...just insulting the people who believe as idiots and the people who don't believe as bigots

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 10:27 AM. Reason : ]

3/9/2010 10:27:39 AM

3/9/2010 10:31:23 AM

3/9/2010 10:31:40 AM

i, too, have to hate on the people different than myself in order to feel like i'm important

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 10:33 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2010 10:33:03 AM

sawahash said:

Quote :

"^^^Because those people are in the majority....."

It only took 19 motherfuckers to actually execute the September 11 attacks. It doesn't take a damn majority. It doesn't even take a significant percentage. All it takes is a bunch of dudes.

Faith is a fucking disease, y'all.

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 10:49 AM. Reason : We've evolved!]

3/9/2010 10:34:50 AM

oh so they crashed their planes into these buildings because they're Muslims and we're Christians. Come on guys, there's way more there than just a religious dispute and I think they would have done it no matter their religion or lack there of.

3/9/2010 10:43:48 AM

No, I'm going to put this as least offensively as I can, but you have a poor understanding of the tensions between the United States and the Middle East and what is going on in the Middle East in general.

3/9/2010 10:46:25 AM

^ True that.

^^And for the record, it is about Islam and Christianity.

3/9/2010 11:26:50 AM

This thread gets really good if you happen to be listening to Mozart's "Dies Irae".

3/9/2010 11:30:56 AM

A world without religion will be a brave new world indeed.

3/9/2010 11:33:19 AM

Quote :

"you don't have to read the bible as a statement of truth, but to understanding the belief system claimed by the majority of humans on this planet would make you less naïve"

quagmire02 is trying to bring his game, lol
WATCH OUT!

3/9/2010 11:41:08 AM

Religion gets pummelled ITT

3/9/2010 11:44:19 AM

I wonder what the ratio is for how many people were helped compared to how many people were hurt due to religious beliefs.


I don't think this entire war is based on religion alone, while religion has a major impact on it, there is more to it then that. You can't just pull out the religion card and call it a day. Wars are complex in nature.

3/9/2010 11:56:22 AM

^^^ haha, yes you do...you're so fucking dumb you don't even get it, do you?

the majority of bitching in general is from non-believers mocking the believers...and the part that makes y'all the MOST retarded is that you bring up the obviously crazy fanatics as an example of the religion

that's pathetic, plain and simple...you mock an entire religion by pointing out a tiny subset and pretending like the entire group is like that...in truth, your opinion about the group as a whole means jack shit since you're basing your distaste on a small subset that may or may not have interpreted the textual basis for their faith system correctly

unless you're saying that having a broad and incomplete understanding of the principle belief structure comprising a religion is a valid and reasonable basis for judgment? haha, you're such a fucking a tool...you're one of those people that has to bitch and moan to feel like he belongs

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 11:58 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2010 11:58:05 AM

^^You realize that Al-Qaeda is an Islamist group that seeks to create a new Islamic caliphate, and this is heavily tied to a belief in a Christian-Jewish alliance that exists to destroy Islam?

Not to mention it's a fundamentalist Sunni movement.



^If someone is stupid enough to believe in something with no rational basis, what's to say they won't believe in something else more dangerous?

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 12:02 PM. Reason : ]

3/9/2010 11:59:33 AM

I, too, subscribe to a religion pamphlet.

3/9/2010 12:02:04 PM

Quote :

"If someone is stupid enough to believe in something with no rational basis, what's to say they won't believe in something else more dangerous?"

this is exactly my point...you subscribe to the IDEA that if something is not inherently provable is it undeniably untrue

this parochial viewpoint makes you and those like you just as retarded as you view those that subscribe to a set of religious beliefs

your views have one massive flaw, and that's the idea that everything that is true is provable...i agree with you in theory, but in reality, this idea is irrational...you cannot "prove" everything you believe, so therefore, by your own belief structure, you should restrict your ideas to those that YOU can PROVE here and now

the most deluded people on the planet don't share a religion (or lack thereof)...they share the idea that anyone can know truth in its entirety

3/9/2010 12:10:15 PM