[words]

Heartbreaking stuff if you're a dog lover.

Quote :

"My name is Rachelle Dudgeon. Some know me as Shelly Dudgeon. I work with PuppyPorch Rescue based out of St. Paul, MN. My statement below is based on a trip my husband and I took to North Carolina January 19-20 to rescue dogs from Robeson County Shelter. My trip started because of several pleas of help that were on the internet the weekend of the 16-17 for a dog named Daisy Mae and her very tiny newborn puppies. These pleas prompted me to view Robeson’s Petfinder links. When on petfinder my heart sank as the condition of the dogs and the facility were unacceptable by every standard. I spent the weekend placing ads in the area to see if any rescues were going to save these dogs that week. Monday morning I called to the shelter and an older black gentleman answered the phone. At that time I requested the status of several dogs and asked if he knew if any rescues would be coming in the next couple days. He confirmed all the dogs were still in the facility and what their available date would be. When I inquired about Daisy Mae I was told she was available on January 19. I was told at that time to call the next morning and speak with Jeff the shelter Manager. Also that he was not aware of any other rescues coming but Jeff may be. Later that day my husband and I decided to drop everything, rent a trailer, and drive 1200 miles to NC. We felt we didn’t have enough confirmation on rescue status and if we didn’t leave Minnesota by 4pm we wouldn’t make it by close the next day. When we were about 2 hours from the shelter we received a call that the shelter was not releasing any dogs. Upon arriving at the Robeson Shelter on January 19, 2010 we were greeted in the parking lot by Angela from another rescue in New York. I asked her the status of her rescue and she told me Jeff was not allowing her to take dogs. I walked into the shelter, approached Jeff, and introduced myself. At that time he walked the kennels with us and let us know which dogs were available for immediate rescue. I believe it totaled 16 dogs and 1 cat. He let us know what we needed for paperwork and agreed to let the dogs spend the night as the rest of the dogs were not available till the next day. We left the actual facility and spent some time out in the parking lot with people from the community that were there to help. While in the parking lot a U-Haul truck drove in. It was being driven by Angela from the rescue in New York. By the way she drove we thought there was a serious problem. She went into the shelter and later came out with a corgi/ Chihuahua tucked under her arm. She was trying very hard to hide it from us. I knew that dog didn’t have a release date for 5 days as it came in on the 19th with a Dachshund and they were in the same kennel. I checked and rechecked the paper work as I wanted to pull them. We thought that to be very peculiar. She got in the truck and left with the dog. Jeff came out locked the door and went into the office. We spent the night in a hotel and met Jeff Promptly at 8 am to retrieve the dogs we pulled the prior day. Jeff had worked on our paperwork and we started to load dogs. During this time Leroy and Fletcher moved dogs to the open kennels across from each dogs kennel and started to spray out the dirty kennels. One of the men approached Jeff and asked him about the small dog that was in the kennel with the Dachshund. He told him “I know that dog was there yesterday as I finished his paperwork and put it on his kennel myself.” Jeff response was “I don’t know it must have been stolen if it isn’t in the kennel and the paperwork is gone.” That dog was not stolen. Jeff gave it to Angela after hours and disposed of the paperwork obviously. While cleaning kennels the poop went every where as they stood behind the kennels with a hose spraying towards the drain. As we unloaded dogs we had to walk through poop and pee to get to our vehicle. There was never any sign of any kind of cleaner or beach being used at all. The dogs in the kennels across the isle were getting the over spray from the hoses and being covered in the poop and water. We had all of our dogs out and paperwork done between 9-9:30am. When we were done I approached Jeff about a very skinny mother dog and her young litter of pups. I had asked Jeff if he minded that I fed her a bowl of puppy food to help her put back on some weight as she was deathly skinny. He agreed and I left the building to go get the food from my truck. Upon re entering the building I saw no one. I walked down to the mother’s kennel to feed her. No one was still to be seen. She was housed in the 10th kennel on the far left from the front door of the shelter. I went in, bent down inside kennel, and started to feed her. She was so hungry she actually attacked her starving puppies when they approached her food. I was moving puppies away from her when I heard 2 men talking as they walked down the right side isle. I heard them enter a kennel and then make the statement “Now suffer on this you son of a bitch.” I thought I heard wrong so I stood up and looked over in the direction they were. They were in the 12th kennel on the far right from the front door. They had a pole in their hand and were jabbing something. Then I heard the most horrific screams from an animal that I have ever heard in my whole life. The men sat over the dog and laughed as it screamed in pain for about 1-2 minutes. Honestly it felt like 10 minutes. I hurried up and crouched back down in the kennel as I didn’t want them to see me. I heard them drag the dog off. I waited a minute before I quietly tried to exit the kennel and sneak out the side door of the shelter. When I was at the very last section of kennels I heard a much panicked voice yell to me asking me if I was finished in the shelter. I replied I was and Jeff asked if I would shut the door behind me. When I walked outside my husband had looked like he was crying. He asked and I said yes. We knew what each other were saying without even using the words. He then asked if Jeff would let us take out the skinny mom and I told I didn’t ask but to go in and try to work some magic. When he entered the building from the side door he walked down to the far isle way to see if he could find Jeff. At that moment he saw the 2 men walking down the isle with about a 3 foot pole in one of their hands. When the men noticed my husband they hurried up and hid the pole and quickly walked off to the entrance hallway of the shelter. Jeff came out and Paul yelled to him asking to speak with him. Jeff approached and Paul asked if we could pull the mom and get her to the vet. He told us he could not let us as her hold time was not up till Monday. He attempted everything but we didn’t want to risk the dogs we were getting later that day so Paul left the shelter closing the side door behind him. The next 5-10 minutes were horrible. We had to sit outside and listen to someone inside the shelter put dogs down. They screamed one after another, 3 maybe 4 of them possibly more as it was hard to tell after the first 3 since they were screaming simultaneously. There was absolutely no physical possibility that sedation was used. Sedation takes time to set in. Between the times I was in the shelter and my husband we never saw anyone take a dog out of a kennel and bring it any where to be sedated nor did they go into any kennel and start sedation there. The time between when we shut the door and the first scream was no more the 2 minutes making it impossible for them to use the sedation properly. I knew which dog they put down when I was in the kennel but never figured out which dogs they put down when we were outside. My husband and I took out every dog that had an available date but one as he wouldn’t allow us in his kennel to help him."

[Edited on March 11, 2010 at 5:41 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2010 5:39:45 PM

Quote :

"... I figured one was a dog that came in after being hit by a car. It had an obvious broken leg and pelvis. It came in on the 19th when we were at the shelter. The dog catcher pulled it out of his dog box while on a catch pole. Let it slam to the concrete floor as it couldn’t use its back legs at all. He then drug it to its kennel which couldn’t have been any further from where he parked his truck. This poor dog sat in the kennel in obvious pain. We begged Jeff to let us take it to the vet and were denied every time. It needed to be put down that moment or in surgery. Leaving it like that was animal cruelty. Jeff assured us he would be putting it down that night after every one left. Why wait if he puts them down properly? He never put the dog down as it was there the next morning when we arrived. We assumed it was one he put down when we were outside but upon arrival at 3 pm that afternoon the dog was still sitting in the same kennel in the same position. That means it sat in that shelter for 24 hours like this. I can’t even explain how cruel that is. We never figured out what dogs he did put down that morning. That afternoon we came back to pull the rest of the available dogs as their exact 120 hours was not up so we couldn’t have access to them till after 4 pm. When we arrived we drove around to the side door. We were greeted by a clean cut gentleman who claimed to be the Robeson County Animal Cruelty investigator. He asked what we thought about the facility and we told him. He brought up the heart sticking and claimed they used sedation and I told him no way did they use it. I also told him who I saw do it. He assured me that one of the men and Jeff are licensed vet techs. He also talked about how his wife and he got a grant for low cost spay and neuter for the county. He then entered the building and went over to the desk where all the men but Jeff were gathered. There was Leroy, Fletcher, 3 dog catchers and himself. They were all talking when I walking in. At that moment I heard him tell the 2 men that I saw them do it. That I know they didn’t use sedation. I just walked nonchalantly over to some puppies so we could start loading them up. I never once discussed with anyone at the shelter what I had seen except this one man. We continued to load up the rest of the dogs and then leave the facility so we could go over to Bladen County and pick up a couple dogs that were waiting for us there. The conditions there were much better, probably because they have a volunteer that actually cares about the animals instead of the men that work in the facility. I am disgusted with the quality of care that these animals receive while in this shelter. No normal sane humane being could ever treat an animal in this manner. It is repulsive to me. People that run shelters should love animals and want to see the best for them. Robeson county Shelter has the opportunity to be a great facility but do to the treatment of staff it is considered one of the worse in the country. People are aware of what is going on as far as Canada and even France. I have started to write my day in Robeson County shelter to many large tv personal. I also wrote to the speaker of the House for North Carolina and to the Reps for Robeson County. I will not stop till changes are made for the animals of North Carolina. This also includes Shelters like Gaston who feel that throwing a bunch of animals in a gas chamber is humane. What scares me the most is that these people get pleasure from treating the animals this way! From Leroy and Fletcher who laughed as they killed a dog and it screamed in pain. To the dog catchers who laugh when they place a catch pole around a dogs neck and carry it, choking it the whole way to a kennel. To Jeff who allows all of this to happen under his roof and does it too. This is what we see as the stepping stones of serial killers. They are people who feel pleasure in killing and abusing. To think that this shelter has a budget of almost $500,000 a year and these employees are getting paid how much of tax payers dollars to run it. It is time the tax payers get a say in how this shelter is run and by who as the current staff shouldn’t even be allowed to own an animal let alone run a facility full of them. You too should be embarrassed and disgusted at the reputation your facility has across this country. These dogs are barely fed and given fresh water. They are so skinny it makes a normal person cry. They are left in dirty kennels and they sleep in their food bowls just to get out of it. Mothers give birth on concrete floors with no help and their tiny babies have no place to get warm. Temperatures there dropped to 37 degrees the night we were there which means that the concrete was unbearably cold for any dog let alone newborn puppies. Parvo is infested in that place and every dog or puppy is exposed the second they walk in the door. We lost at least 16 puppies to Parvo and it cost about $3000.00 to try and save only 8 of them. The others were at other rescues. Dogs are being put down even when over half the facility is sitting empty. Not only that only 1/3 of the facility actually has kennels yet 2/3 sit wide open for the men to pull their trucks in and BS with each other instead of working. Another 80+ kennels could have fit in there and with $500,000 a year budget the county could have afforded it plus the food and water for those extra dogs. Also this facility has perfect space to have been built with indoor/outdoor runs for all the adult dogs and inside kennels for the puppies. This would have helped eliminate the need to clean as much as most dogs would go outside to the bathroom keeping the facility more sanitary. There was also a whole room that could have been set up with about 50 kennels for cats that only had 1 cat in it. What this shelter needs is a whole new staff with love for the animals and knowledge that is selected by the community not the county."

Pretty fucked up.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/demand-robeson-county-stop-heartsticking

3/11/2010 5:40:12 PM

summary?

3/11/2010 5:45:30 PM

It includes a few pretty bad examples of animal cruelty and use of heart sticking on unsedated animals.

from another site:

Quote :

"When pets are considered “unadoptable,” they can be killed through heart-sticking, which is when a poison-filled syringe is stabbed through the chest of a dog and if it hits the heart, the syringe pulsates. When the syringe pulsates, “blue juice,” technically known as sodium pentobarbital, is injected. According to regulations, these dogs are supposed to be heavily sedated during the heart-sticking procedure and these procedures are supposed to be performed by trained personnel. Here is a video from 1997 showing this gruesome procedure being performed on conscious, non-sedated dogs and by untrained people, resulting in excruciating pain and abuse for these abandoned dogs. After this video was made public, a law suit was filed against Robeson County and many changes took place. However, recent eye witness accounts suggests that these practices are still in place. WARNING!!! This video is very difficult to watch and is unsuitable for underage viewers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEW6rpzV-E"

http://pawsrescueva.blogspot.com/

[Edited on March 11, 2010 at 5:58 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2010 5:57:54 PM

Quote :

"an older black gentleman answered the phone"

why does this matter?

3/11/2010 6:03:28 PM

I wondered that myself.

3/11/2010 6:09:05 PM

oh cool a video phone

3/11/2010 6:17:41 PM

they're not black, they're lumbee, ok??

3/11/2010 6:35:43 PM

this has been all over craigslist... North Carolina has the third highest euthansia rate in the country thanks to a pet overpopulation epidemic. Rescues drive in from other states every week to pull adoptable animals and bring them back but it's not enough. I know of dozens of such groups in new england states, states were pet owners are responsible (spay/neuter their animals and don't treat them as disposable property).

The heartstick method needs to be outlawed. It can't be more expensive to use lethal injection to euthanize.

/rant

3/11/2010 7:57:54 PM

3/11/2010 8:06:51 PM

how would there even be a supposed advantage to such a method? uses a little less poison or something?

3/11/2010 8:07:16 PM

only advantage would be that those doing it can do it from a distance. Using lethal injection requires being closer to the animal in order to properly administer it... risky when dealing with aggressive or feral animals. You can sedate animals but thats an added expense....

3/11/2010 8:28:44 PM

wow no way i am watching that

3/11/2010 8:36:30 PM

wow no way i am watching that

3/11/2010 8:45:10 PM

Quote :

"how would there even be a supposed advantage to such a method?"

You can use untrained county employees who have no idea how to put a needle in a vein, even though they'll often miss the heart and leave the animal suffering for several minutes.

3/11/2010 9:56:09 PM

WHY OH WHY CAN'T THEY KILL ANIMALS IN A WAY THAT BETTER HIDES THE SIGNS OF SUFFERING SO I CAN SLEEP BETTER AT NIGHT?!

Those fuckers are so poor down there they can barely feed kids, much less dogs. Give 'em a break. Taxpayers demand dead dogs, they get dead dogs. 100% success rate.

Any form of death other than blowing their head clean off will still result in a 20 second span before brain death occurs. These dogs get a faster death than we allow the majority of humans. You will be damn lucky if you get the chance to die that swiftly.

3/11/2010 10:54:19 PM

smc being an internet tough guy ITT!

3/12/2010 12:42:02 AM

Damn straight, don't you ever forget it!

3/12/2010 11:09:39 AM

I hope that's how you go out. Unsedated with a big needle in your heart.

3/12/2010 11:47:24 AM

we all hoped that's how nic cage would go out

but nope

that motherfucker was just saving himself.

what an asshole.

3/12/2010 11:51:12 AM

Quote :

"Any form of death other than blowing their head clean off will still result in a 20 second span before brain death occurs. "

This would probably be more humane and cheaper than their current method.

Quote :

"Those fuckers are so poor down there they can barely feed kids, much less dogs. "

If this is true:

Quote :

"Another 80+ kennels could have fit in there and with $500,000 a year budget the county could have afforded it plus the food and water for those extra dogs."

it doesn't seem that money is the issue.

Quote :

"It is time the tax payers get a say in how this shelter is run and by who as the current staff shouldn’t even be allowed to own an animal let alone run a facility full of them."

I guess a bunch of Yanks know what the tax payers want more than the tax payers in Robeson County. If the conditions there are world famous something tells me a good portion of the citizens of Robeson also know about it and don't really care. Sad but probably true.

3/12/2010 12:18:32 PM

Fun fact:

Dogs have become less sensitive to pentobarbital in recent years because of the presence of pentobarbital from other euthanized animals ground into their dog food. Yum!

[Edited on March 12, 2010 at 12:38 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2010 12:36:41 PM

That wouldn't surprise me at all from my summers interning on a chicken farm that sold chicken meal to pet food companies. If you really care about your pets, feed them a raw meat diet.

3/12/2010 12:38:45 PM

Quote :

"I guess a bunch of Yanks know what the tax payers want more than the tax payers in Robeson County. If the conditions there are world famous something tells me a good portion of the citizens of Robeson also know about it and don't really care. Sad but probably true."

God forbid they give Robeson County tax payers the benefit of the doubt. Fucking yanks amirite?

3/12/2010 2:08:59 PM

Robeson County is a shithole.

Probably the shittiest county in all of the United States.



So, go figure.

3/12/2010 2:33:41 PM

Quote :

"something tells me a good portion of the citizens of Robeson also know about it and don't really care. Sad but probably true."

If you have spent any time in Robeson co before...
Oh man, that place is awful.

3/12/2010 2:39:18 PM

^ Not as bad as the indian counties in South Dakota.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowest-income_counties_in_the_United_States

3/12/2010 2:39:50 PM

[Edited on March 12, 2010 at 2:41 PM. Reason : ban. suspend. terminate.]

3/12/2010 2:39:50 PM

Quote :

"I heard 2 men talking as they walked down the right side isle. I heard them enter a kennel and then make the statement “Now suffer on this you son of a bitch.” I thought I heard wrong so I stood up and looked over in the direction they were. They were in the 12th kennel on the far right from the front door. They had a pole in their hand and were jabbing something. Then I heard the most horrific screams from an animal that I have ever heard in my whole life. The men sat over the dog and laughed as it screamed in pain for about 1-2 minutes. Honestly it felt like 10 minutes. I hurried up and crouched back down in the kennel as I didn’t want them to see me. I heard them drag the dog off. I waited a minute before I quietly tried to exit the kennel and sneak out the side door of the shelter. When I was at the very last section of kennels I heard a much panicked voice yell to me asking me if I was finished in the shelter. I replied I was and Jeff asked if I would shut the door behind me. When I walked outside my husband had looked like he was crying. He asked and I said yes. We knew what each other were saying without even using the words. "

i'm sorry, but this is cheesy as hell.

3/12/2010 2:46:03 PM

I watched the video and cried. I broke from my pescetarianism and ate a cheeseburger for the first time in over a year last weekend...now I wanna be sick.

But I just can't get that angry about these shelters.

Also, I would rather be heartsticked like a dog than have to live in Robeson County.

3/12/2010 3:26:38 PM

Quote :

"God forbid they give Robeson County tax payers the benefit of the doubt. Fucking yanks amirite?"

This shelter has been sued in the past and as this woman puts it, world famous for being a shithole. I doubt some "bleeding heart liberal Yank" is going to make much difference to Robeson County folks if all the previous bad press hasn't.

3/12/2010 11:50:00 PM

Didn't read this, but I assume it's horrible. Just here to point out whatever it is barely scratches the surface of how bad a place Robeson County is.

The end.

3/13/2010 8:29:35 AM

I've adopted a dog from the shelter in St Pauls. While it was sad to see the dogs in there (and know that they have a 90%+ kill rate), I never once saw any instances of abuse. The kennels were exceptionally clean. I cleaned kennels in high school and those at the shelter were as clean as those at the vet clinic I worked for. The dogs all had food & water and there was no major over crowding. I adopted one of three remaining puppies. The 2nd was adopted later that day and the shelter manager called me to let me know that the 3rd had been adopted the next morning. I had left my name/number to call in case the puppy was not adopted out by its deadline.

If you are looking for a real tragedy in Robeson County then look at the people there. Well over 30% live below the poverty line and so many more hover slightly above it. I had students who only came to school to have two meals, be away from abusive/alcoholic/druggie families. Students had no coats, shoes, etc. Never in my life have I experienced so much poverty on such a wide scale.

If you want to help/fix the animal problem then help/fix the people. Adopting dogs does not solve the problem. This county needs spay/neuter clinics and groups that help feed not only the dogs but the people. If I was forced to choose between dog food or groceries the choice is simple.

3/13/2010 9:21:09 AM

Let's be honest, if they didn't spend their money on big screen tv's at wal-mart, booze, and burger king every meal, they'd be in a lot better position.

The place is corrupt, from the hospital to the courts to the police department. It's just a bad, bad place.

3/13/2010 9:33:46 AM

I live in St. Pauls and yeah........

I've already got two dogs and two cats

3/13/2010 10:05:22 AM

I guess I'm that guy, but fuck these dogs. Sure it sucks to see cute little puppies wriggling in pain, but at the end of the day they're just animals and they're being euthanized because they're unwanted, no big whoop. If you really want a cause go rescue some people from Haiti or something instead of saving a meaningless animal's life.

3/13/2010 9:15:12 PM

it seems your premise is that it's more worthwhile helping people than animals just by virtue of them being people--i'm not sure i can agree with that

3/13/2010 10:06:38 PM

I used to work at Muller Steam in St. Pauls my first summer out of high school...that whole area is a shit whole

3/14/2010 4:08:35 AM

I don't have a problem with this

3/14/2010 4:15:25 AM

Quote :

"I guess I'm that guy, but fuck these dogs. Sure it sucks to see cute little puppies wriggling in pain, but at the end of the day they're just animals and they're being euthanized because they're unwanted, no big whoop. If you really want a cause go rescue some people from Haiti or something instead of saving a meaningless animal's life."

No, fuck you. These "people" you want to help put themselves in miserable situations through shitty life choices. I feel for their children, but they're reaping what they've sown. I have much more empathy for these dogs than I'll ever feel for the average person that's wound up in bad way because of them being stupid as fuck.

As far as Haiti goes, why don't you explore why Haiti is such a shit hole and the Dominican Republic is fucking Shangri-La comparatively and they're on the same fucking island?

[Edited on March 14, 2010 at 11:47 AM. Reason : *]

3/14/2010 11:45:54 AM

Quote :

"No, fuck you. These "people" you want to help put themselves in miserable situations through shitty life choices."

I was going to promise myself I wouldn't post in Soap Box Lounge, but this is by far the most ignorant statement in the entire thread. That you actually think any part of this is true, that poor people stricken by disaster are in such a predicament because of their own decisions, and that people in unfortunate situations, despite the cause, deserve to die, is the most revolting opinion I've read on TWW.

That you can trick yourself into thinking that all poor people in third world countries have the choice and opportunity to be something else shows your ignorance of just how the world works. Is your post supposed to support this animal rescue?

[Edited on March 14, 2010 at 9:54 PM. Reason : sbl]

3/14/2010 9:54:04 PM

Who said anyone deserves to die? That came from you, not me.

The Haitians didn't make any choice to be hit by an earthquake. They did make choices to not have any building codes.

3/14/2010 11:26:10 PM

Yes, I'm sure the inhabitants of slums and poverty-stricken communities have control over "building codes" and the resources to change them. Furthermore, that has nothing to do with their individual choices, and it reflects nothing on the argument you made. It's amusing that you think that all persons at any one time have the ability to change anything about their life--what a privileged and sheltered life you must lead.

And no, you did say they deserve to die, whether you're competent enough to realize it or not. Because you know what? They died, so many did, and so many will--not because they choose to live in Haiti, or because they chose to live life in poverty, or because they chose not to have building codes, but because that's what card life dealt them. You're living in a fairy tale to think all people have the resources to change their lives for the better all the time--because the simple fact is that many can't, and likely never will on their own. Nothing of the fate they ultimately suffer is extended through choice alone.

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 3:25 AM. Reason : ^]

3/15/2010 3:22:35 AM

Do you have any choice about a building code? No. Do your leaders? Yes. Besides that, do you have a choice of whether or not you live in an unsafe shack? Yes. Chile had an earthquake of similar magnitude recently and the death toll was 1/10th of the Haiti death toll.

Did you have choices early on in your life that ended up with getting you where you are? Yes. Are there people that grew up in Robeson county that made good choices early on and are now successful and living a great life? Absolutely.

You..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................The_Point.

People make choices. Animals do not.

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 10:32 AM. Reason : *]

3/15/2010 10:29:29 AM

Quote :

"Robeson County is a shithole. Probably the shittiest county in all of the United States."

It is pretty far up there along with Emporia at the Va border along I95

3/15/2010 12:19:28 PM

Quote :

"Do you have any choice about a building code? No. Do your leaders? Yes."

So you're holding all the people of an entire nation responsible for the corrupt politicians and officials they have no resources or power to rise against?

Quote :

"Besides that, do you have a choice of whether or not you live in an unsafe shack? Yes. "

What is it that you don't understand about poverty? You see, what happens to people that can't afford the basic essentials we take for granted is that they have to use what they have and what they can get. Are you really so thick as to think it's simply deciding between a shack behind the general store or a townhouse in Cary?

Quote :

"Chile had an earthquake of similar magnitude recently and the death toll was 1/10th of the Haiti death toll."

And it would be even less if it was in the United States. Hey, I know, let's think about the state of the people living in these countries! Oh man, that sounds like a swell idea, I wonder if poverty level, income, standard of living, and things like that have anything to do with how devastating nature disasters are? I BET it's akin to a scale, where communities with greater wealth and infrastructure are able to weather these types of disasters better because they're prepared, and poverty-stricken communities with little-to-no infrastructure suffer more death and strife because of unforeseen disasters. But maybe you're right, maybe it's just because they made a stupid decision or something.

Quote :

"Did you have choices early on in your life that ended up with getting you where you are? Yes."

If you're seriously comparing the opportunities we have as Americans compared to those of Haitians, then you missed a critical lesson in your education.

Quote :

"Are there people that grew up in Robeson county that made good choices early on and are now successful and living a great life? Absolutely."

What a real scientific approach you've got. I would think that you'd learned this in school, but the exception does not make a rule. Are you a filthy rich opportunist in America? No? Well you're stupid and make bad choices, because there's others that ARE filthy rich opportunists! The logic doesn't work, not for any society or nation.

Quote :

"People make choices. Animals do not."

Oh, cool, now you're actually bringing in the point of animals into your statements! See, I was confused, because you were just bashing poor people, and I'm wondering... where are the animals?! Well it's nice to see you really care. What a human choice you've made.

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 2:43 PM. Reason : haha]

3/15/2010 2:41:29 PM

It doesn't do any good to further argue with you, because as the retard that you are, you drag any debate down to your level and then win with experience.

Eat shit and die,

DB

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 3:00 PM. Reason : *]

3/15/2010 3:00:02 PM

I also feel sympathy for other species only.

3/15/2010 4:25:23 PM

Yea he's right...people who make good choices can do well in Robeson County. Unfortunately life interfers with making good choices for so many people and the these bad choices impact others. Its a nasty cycle. I had a student who moved at least 10 times in one school year, saw his father go through tons of women, get several knocked up, and would leave his teenage sons at home alone all night with no food, no tv, and no way to get to food. These kids would call me in the morning to ask for a ride to school because "dad never came home last night."

And these choices that dad makes DO impact these kids. They can't get to school and grades suffer, they don't have rides so extracurricular activities are not an option. College is a long shot because they don't have the money to pay and asking for parent information for them to fill out a FAFSA is nearly impossible especially if the parents don't even buy groceries for the kids.

Yea it sucks for the animals but it really sucks for the kids impacted by their crappy parents.

3/15/2010 9:44:08 PM

Have to agree with Netstorm in this internet battle.

3/15/2010 9:53:18 PM