So Saturday a pipe burst in between the ceiling of my bathroom and the flooring of the bathroom above me. I live in a condo that I own. I immediately run upstairs and luckily my neighbor (who rents the unit above me) was home. She was able to call the owner of the condo she rents and he came over to check things out. We're waiting for a plumber to come today to investigate this mess. My ceiling is completely ruined and it's starting to crack badly at one end due to the water damage.

My question is....who pays for this? I can file a claim with my insurance company but this is the third time in 4 years that the unit above me has flooded me out in one way or another and I'm worried if I file another claim with my insurance they'll end up dropping me. It's not my fault (hell it's no one's fault) that the pipe burst and I kind of have the feeling that the owner above me's insurance company isn't going to want to pay for this.

Since we're in a condo association, does anyone know if homeowners would pay for this then? Since technically it's a pipe in between 2 units it could be viewed as structural and since it was no one's fault, there's really not one person who has to be responsible for this.

help!

3/29/2010 9:25:44 AM

yeah, i saw this on your facebook status. that really sucks for ya

so, you do have renters insurance? if so, you should contact the homeowners assoc and report the incident to them and see what they'll do for ya. if they refuse to help you, then go to your insurance people and file a claim. going to your HOA first might provide some leverage toward your insurance claim

3/29/2010 9:30:02 AM

I would have called homeowners/property management on Saturday but they aren't open on the weekends.

I'm really hoping I can push to get this taken care of by my HOA because if I'm worried if I file another claim with my insurance, they'll end up dropping me because of all the water problems we've had in the past with the unit above me (the other 2 times wasn't anyone's fault....fluke accidents).

I mean hell I pay them enough in homeowners they should take care of this

3/29/2010 9:38:01 AM

depends on the HOA covenants. typically you own from the wall finish in, or from the face of the stud in.. so this should typically be covered by HOA.

3/29/2010 9:38:36 AM

Quote :

"I live in a condo that I own."

Quote :

"so, you do have renters insurance?"

3/29/2010 9:54:21 AM

how new/old is the condo...a lot of times HOA will cover since it is part of their construction.....what/where is this condo

3/29/2010 9:55:26 AM

Quote :

"depends on the HOA covenants. typically you own from the wall finish in, or from the face of the stud in.. so this should typically be covered by HOA."

that's what i'm thinking/hoping.

Quote :

"how new/old is the condo...a lot of times HOA will cover since it is part of their construction.....what/where is this condo"

the building is quite old....27 years to be exact from it's original construction date. the condo is downtown and our management company is a very well known one that manages most of the condos/townhouses downtown.

my dad and i did the math last night and in the 5 years i've owned my place, i've paid between $10,000 and $13,000 in homeowner's dues total. obviously you would think for the amount i'm paying a month, it shouldn't be an issue but i have a feeling my HOA is going to try everything possible to make it so they don't have to pay.

3/29/2010 10:00:53 AM

I am surprised the association does not have hazard insurance on the units, generally they do, do you have a copy of your annual budged handy?

3/29/2010 10:13:42 AM

you know it's funny you ask that because I remember getting one about a month ago and for the life of me I cannot find it.

I would imagine that with a 27 year old pipe, they'll have to pay for it. I plan on calling them today once I hear from my neighbor regarding when the plumber is coming.

3/29/2010 10:18:10 AM

This exact thing happened to me once. I had to get a hotel room for a week.

3/29/2010 10:24:36 AM

Pikey who paid for it?

3/29/2010 10:34:10 AM

Landlord paid for the fix. I paid for the hotel.

3/29/2010 10:38:46 AM

ok well that's good. i'm my own landlord since i own it but i'm really hoping HOA covers this sort of thing. i'm still waiting to hear from my neighbor about what time the plumber is coming. i'm kicking myself because i left his contact information at my house. i should have brought it with me.

3/29/2010 11:21:00 AM

I came in here to post 'that exact same thing happened to my gf' and then I saw who the poster was

3/29/2010 12:28:52 PM

which downtown condo is it? or how much in HOA do u pay a month? all the new condos charge outrageous HOA fees like anywhere from $250-$300.....at that rate if I had a condo they better step up!

but yeah HOAs suck...i get HOA letters telling me to move my car off my curb or mow my grass....is this what I pay them for?

3/29/2010 12:35:32 PM

i'm a few blocks north of where the the newer ones are but i agree.....paramount and west charge about $400-500 a month in dues.

i pay $180 a month and this money is supposed to go to exterior/structural fixing, landscaping, and our pool. some of the units in my neighborhood (i live in one of the smaller ones and we pay based on our square footage) pay up towards $500 a month so my property management/HOA is making a good chunk of money from my neighborhood in any given month.

i also worry about my neighbor upstairs. right now her water is turned off but there's going to come a point where she's going to need to use her water. she's really nice so i don't see her turning back on her water to use it with running the risk that my place could end up in worse shape but she also can't go without water for who knows how long.

i'm calling my HOA right now. i'm going to find out what they cover when it comes to structural stuff. my other neighbor next door to me messaged me to let me know he had something similar happen to him a while back and to contact him and i'm waiting to hear back from him.

[Edited on March 29, 2010 at 12:51 PM. Reason : edt]

3/29/2010 12:44:27 PM

ok update.

so i went home a bit early from work and tried calling the guy who owns the condo upstairs from me because i hadn't heard from him all day and he told me on saturday he would call me. i left him a VM and at the current time of this posting, he has not called me back.

i called my HOA/property management around lunchtime and left a VM. i called them back when i got home to talk to them about my covenance and after asserting some urgency in talking to my property manager, i got her on the phone (mind you at first she was "out of the office" and then suddenly was there when i started talking about them paying for something that broke).

my property manager informed me that major pipe lines (ones that stretch across multiple units) are covered in the covenance if they break but minor pipe lines (ones that only work for that specific unit) are not covered. i pretty much told her that was crap considering the building is 27 years old and eventually the pipes would need to be replaced. since this happened between my unit and the unit above me, it's technically no one's pipe.

if it's a minor pipe, then the person who caused the break has to pay for it. i informed the property manager that this is no bueno considering this is the third time in 4 years that this specific unit above me has caused water damage in my unit and never once did the owner above me's insurance cover any of the damages (i actually was turned down for reimbursement to my insurance company because the insurance company claimed it was "no fault" on a cracked hose to the fridge). i told the property manager that if i have to file another claim with my insurance company, i run the risk of them dropping me.

i was transferred to the maintenance group within my property management and they need to come out tomorrow to determine if this is a major pipe or a minor pipe. i have a feeling the HOA is going to tell me it's minor regardless so they're not held responsible. i mean cmon i pay almost $200 a month and you can't fix a pipe inbetween my unit and my neighbor's unit when it breaks????

on top of it, i found out that the owner above me called our property management group to have the maintenance group come out and NOT a plumber like he told me he would do. the maintenance group told me they were waiting for me to call to let them know when they could come over and because it was 2:30 when i got in touch with them, they were now booked for the day. i had no idea i was supposed to call anyone and no one called me to tell me i needed to call the property management group.

i'm really annoyed with multiple people and it makes me question how much longer i want to keep my condo in this neighborhood with this property management group.

plus the tenant who rents the place above me is coming home tomorrow.....to no water. she can't turn the water until the pipe is fixed or i run the risk of coming home to more damage.

i really just don't know what to do at this point.

3/29/2010 6:24:40 PM

Hey, the situation sucks but it isn't that bad. If I were you I would get on the ball and begin to do a few things in order to cover my ass.

for starters, start shopping around for other insurance companies, and see if you can get approved. if you do then if you're dropped you can transition since you've been approved. your rate will be higher than initially quoted, but you'll have an easier time picking up more insurance.

secondly, when you're at home with the HOA maintenance group be very cordial and slip into the conversation a plumber is coming by later to check things out and make sure there is no other damage. that will reduce the odds of them pulling a fast one and telling you it is minor when it is not.

and finally understand that your HOA fees are nothing more than extortion. once you come to peace with this you'll be much better off. do not expect your HOA fees to really cover anything, regardless of cost. their one and only goal is to churn a profit and fixing shit and making improvements does not help with that. if they do actually have to act on their stated intent and do repairs then rates will just get raised. the sad thing is they don't care if you're angry and leave because you can't "vote with your dollar." Even if you decide you want to move you still have to pay HOA fees until you leave and then some other sucker pays them. the best way to deal with the HOA is through charm and active participation in the meetings. it is politics like anything else and if you're not putting the time in to build the relationship then you're asking to be screwed.

3/29/2010 6:54:52 PM

The same thing happened to me after I moved out of my old condo (the very same day I put it up for rent, actually).

There was a pipe blockage below my floor (which is in the parking deck underneath) and a good deal of flooding. I brought in a plumber to fix it after the neighbor called me, he and several other plumbers where amazed at how poor the plumbing was (the building was 3 years old at this point) basically there were about 4 large pipes coming together and dumping into a single smaller pipe. My insurance company paid me close to $20k to repair the 6 month old hardwood floors and the drywall that was damaged.

Two weeks later the ceiling in one of the two full bathrooms was leaking a ton of water from a similar issue with the unit above. The HOA paid me just over $10k for interior damage on both.

Fortunately I the warped bamboo floors laid back down within a few weeks and the damage was almost impossible to notice. I ended up spending ~$5k on drywall repair and kept the rest (you may remember the infamous Mr. Joshua's $25,000 Crack Party from a couple of years ago).

3/29/2010 7:19:24 PM

you should also be able to hire a plumber that can tell you whether or not it's a main pipe or an individual one - i'd be surprised your insurance company doesn't do that if the HOA says it's your line anyways

how is this that difficult of a problem to solve? the HOA doesn't cover pipes that you own - they only cover main building lines

Quote :

"property management/HOA is making a good chunk of money from my neighborhood in any given month."

is the HOA completely run by a property management company? typically most of the day to day will be outsourced to a property management company but there is a board run by individuals in the "neighborhood" - HOAs are not "for profit" companies and not out to make a buck - however property management companies definitely are - they should be and typically are separate entities but not always - especially in "college complexes"

3/29/2010 7:29:06 PM

Man, that sucks. This happened to me when i lived in my apartment in Cary. Woke up to it pretty much raining in my dining room / living room. Fortunately I was renting so the apartment complex took care of the repairs. I did however have to replace my TV, but my Renter's Insurance covered that.

3/29/2010 7:35:32 PM

IRSeriousCat, thank you! that is really good advice. i will start checking out other insurance companies tomorrow.

Quote :

"how is this that difficult of a problem to solve? the HOA doesn't cover pipes that you own - they only cover main building line"

that's the thing....it's NOT my pipe!!! it the guy above me's pipe that caused this. but because this pipe lies between my unit and the unit above me it's kind of this iffy thing if it's actually my neighbor's pipe or the neighborhood's pipe. obviously, we won't be able to tell until tomorrow.

Quote :

"however property management companies definitely are - they should be and typically are separate entities but not always - especially in "college complexes" "

i don't live in a "college" complex. i actually live in an older neighborhood where the average age of a resident in my neighborhood is about 70 years old. i'm actually one of the youngest people in the complex.

Quote :

"Man, that sucks. This happened to me when i lived in my apartment in Cary. Woke up to it pretty much raining in my dining room / living room. Fortunately I was renting so the apartment complex took care of the repairs. I did however have to replace my TV, but my Renter's Insurance covered that."

i will say this....i got REALLY lucky in the fact that a) i was home at the time, b) the tenant upstairs was home at the time and c) the owner of the unit above me was around and able to come by ASAP. i'm in the process of moving out and putting my place up for rent so obviously i want to get all this taken care of as soon as possible so i can start showing it.

also, because it happened in the bathroom (most of the water was caught by the floor mat) i really am lucky that there isn't any personal damage to my things......just the ceiling. i'm going to have to chuck the floor mat....it's STILL wet, oh well. not a huge deal.

Mr. Joshua do you know of other units in that building that had similar problems? it sounds like that could become a huge issue and could happen again.

3/29/2010 7:47:16 PM

Every apartment complex I’ve ever lived in has had a situation with pipes and water damage to the ceiling below, which was no fun when you are living below said cieling, but is part of the reason I now live on a top floor. And the people below me get screwed over once or twice a year because of that. They're a really nice family so I feel bad for them. But in my limited experience living on a floor below someone is bad 100% of the time, so all I know to do is steer clear. I would have thought condos would be built a little better, but I guess they all get old.

Good luck getting this straightened out and fixed up! I feel for ya.

3/29/2010 7:59:30 PM

Your HOA dues to help pay the building's premium. Generally condo owner's policies (HO6) just cover contents, wall coverings and some improvements. You will have to file a claim to cover your contents, because the HOA's policy won't cover them. After your insurer pays this third claim, you relenquish all rights to recover damages from your HOA and your condo owner policy might be dropped (or it might not).

Unfortunately most insurance policies, whether typical homeowner's or commercial don't cover faulty construction or materials. It looks like you've been paying 200-220ish a month for HOA dues, which means your HOA is already paying out the ass for their building insurance. They've probably filed multiple claims lately.

It's gonna suck all around for you. Actually, I'd file a third claim and put that bitch up for sale.

3/29/2010 8:22:09 PM

Quote :

"Mr. Joshua do you know of other units in that building that had similar problems? it sounds like that could become a huge issue and could happen again."

Oh yeah, most of the third floor (the first floor of units) has had plumbing issues. Basically if enough people above you take a shower or do laundry at the same time then you're going to have water backing up into your unit. I'm not sure what they decided to do about that. Also they've had engineers out there because a number of balconies are cracking and falling away from the building.

I had to match some fixtures that were original to my unit and tried to contact the builder in order to find the vendor. Surprisingly they'd gone out of business not long after finishing the building. As soon as the downtown condo market recovers a bit more I'm unloading that place.

3/29/2010 8:33:25 PM

Quote :

"and put that bitch up for sale."

i've considered this as well. i really want to hold onto the place as it's a good investment and it's my first place. i love my condo. i just don't really care for the issues that have come with it....but that's what i get....it's an older place and these sorts of things happen.

3/29/2010 8:37:37 PM

Then don't complain when they cancel that policy

3/29/2010 10:17:24 PM

well and i understand that.....but these aren't things that i've done to cause the claims to be in existance. i swear that unit above me is cursed.

3/29/2010 10:19:08 PM

Nah, it's definitely not your fault. But an insurance company is a business and they definitely cancel policies on renewal when there's been 3 claims in 4 years. It doesn't make sense for a business to keep renewing a high risk policy.

3/29/2010 10:21:19 PM

oh i know and i completely agree. it just kind of blows when it's not my fault and i have to deal with the possibility of becoming uninsured. but you know, that's life sometimes.

3/29/2010 10:35:38 PM

Unfortunately a pre-purchase inspection might've found it. Or you could've done research with other tenants. You can choose if you want to risk being uninsured, but it could be financially devastating in the future. It's not simply "that's life." (That's an issue in itself where I get pissed off at irresponsible people that think that some risk is unavoidable, or if something happens it's not their fault or the responsibility of someone else.)

You bought the place that's 27 years old. You live in a place that's flooded 3 times in 4 years. Consider the possible mold that's been accumulating because of that moisture. Again, I'd file a claim, try to get everything fixed on your condo owner's policy and HOA policy and SELL it.

3/29/2010 10:59:46 PM

Quote :

"We're waiting for a plumber"

Hey baby, I'm here to clean your pipes...

3/29/2010 11:42:52 PM

Quote :

"Unfortunately a pre-purchase inspection might've found it. Or you could've done research with other tenants. You can choose if you want to risk being uninsured, but it could be financially devastating in the future. It's not simply "that's life." (That's an issue in itself where I get pissed off at irresponsible people that think that some risk is unavoidable, or if something happens it's not their fault or the responsibility of someone else.) You bought the place that's 27 years old. You live in a place that's flooded 3 times in 4 years. Consider the possible mold that's been accumulating because of that moisture. Again, I'd file a claim, try to get everything fixed on your condo owner's policy and HOA policy and SELL it."

well in all honesty, i did have a pre-purchase inspection.....in 2005 when i bought the place. but the first water issue came from a busted hose in the back of the fridge in the unit above me and the second water issue came from a busted hot water heater from the unit above me. it's nothing that could have really been prevented. and all these issues happened AFTER i moved in so don't think i was a moron who bought a place that has issues in the past that i was aware of and i turned the other way.

when i bought the place it was only 22 years old. i've been there for 5 years now.

quick update: the property management maintenance group came this morning and we found the problem. the showerhead had been replaced recently and it wasn't caulked (or caulked properly) and water was coming down behind the wall and down into my ceiling. i spoke with the owner who owns the place above me and he is contacting his insurance company so they can get an adjuster to my place and fix the ceiling.

moral of the story folks: caulk your showerheads.

[Edited on March 30, 2010 at 11:18 AM. Reason : clarification.]

[Edited on March 30, 2010 at 11:19 AM. Reason : people are reTarded.]

3/30/2010 11:16:45 AM

i think if i caulked my shower head, then it would be plugged up and water wouldnt come out? Moral of the story, one does not caulk a shower head. One might forget to put teflon tape on the threads when replacing the extension pipe that come out of the wall, but this would be a small potatoes, water stain type leak. A gusher/pipe burst type leak has absolutely nothing to do with caulk.

3/30/2010 2:29:05 PM

well if you read, you would have seen that we found out it wasn't a pipe burst. it was water getting behind the showerhead which had just been replaced and the buildup of water eventually came through.

i was told by maintenance that it wasn't caulked and it should have been. regardless....it sounds like it wasn't installed properly.

[Edited on March 30, 2010 at 2:40 PM. Reason : up]

3/30/2010 2:39:32 PM

Your postings before made it seem like a pipe broke in all 3 instances. Either way best of luck

3/31/2010 2:09:25 PM

bttt

9/2/2010 1:47:33 PM

I dont understand why you dont try and file a claim against his home owners policy.

9/2/2010 2:30:01 PM

Why was this brought back to the top?

Issue resolved. No problems since

9/2/2010 4:43:17 PM

Also I tried to file a claim on the owner above me's insurance but they denied the claim and said it's no fault because the owner didn't know there was a crack in the caulking. I even had my insurance company look into it and they said the same thing.

9/2/2010 4:44:58 PM

questions about who's responsible for damages is what tort law is for...

9/2/2010 4:58:40 PM

^

9/2/2010 5:16:37 PM

I bttt'd this earlier and didn't have a chance to get back to a computer until now.

Basically I signed a lease yesterday at this townhouse through a property management company and had everything finalized. I saw the utilities guy coming to turn on water/power as I was leaving and I asked if there was any reason I needed to be there (which I already knew that the answer was no). I had all the breakers off except the water heater because I had planned on coming back later that day to clean and I wanted hot water. Well I got sidetracked with work stuff and then later with personal stuff so I decided not to go back that night.

This morning on the way out of town to work I just happen to decide that I want to drop off all the cleaning supplies and pesticides and shit I still had in my trunk. Open the door and it's fucking raining! Ceiling is just pooled with water dripping all over the kitchen floor and the upstairs carpet is soaked. It's a lofted townhouse so the living area remained somewhat unscathed and they're apparently going to try and fan dry the carpet and sub-floor...I've been back and forth today trying to find out what I could but I know that I'm not going to chance some hack maintenance crew coming in there to turn it over as fast as possible knowing it's going to reek like mildew for a year. At first everything was fine but then they tried to pressure me into at least giving a verbal commitment to stay there when it's done and said if not then they would re-list it and rent it to someone else.

1) I cannot find a more acceptable floorplan anywhere in my area even if I raise what I'm willing to spend. It's a 970sqft 1BR 1.5BA. Most 2 BR I've found are barely larger than the added square footage of the additional bedroom. Most 1BR are 500 low end and 800sqft with the latter basically doubling the rent.

2) They obviously will pro-rate this month and credit it to the next month's rent should I decide to stay there, but were hesitant when I brought up the water bill? "Well I don't know about that, we're not really responsible". Then I just imagined 2 weeks of contractors leeching kW/h off my account and then the landlord being like "wut?". I already had the water turned off and when I called to disconnect the utilities they had already began to transfer them, so that's good I guess.

3) I will know in about a week whether or not I'm taking another job in/around the same area but not being tied to this particular property/town might open up some other options though I still have to be out by Oct 1st. I don't even know what I would have done had I not been lazy/reluctant to start packing and decided to pay rent in two places for Sept.

Thoughts? I feel as though I should definitely use this inconvenience and wasted utilities as leverage at least for new carpet, but I would have to risk losing the property and while the landlord doesn't really know my thoughts on staying there, they may decide to call my bluff and try to get someone else in there who doesn't know any better.

tl;dr version
Hi, my new apt had a busted pipe and now I get to decide if I want to roll over like a bitch and stay there regardless of the circumstances, demand that it be repaired to my standards and risk them telling me to fuck off and relisting it, or just get all my money back and say pz fuckers.

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 7:04 PM. Reason : ,]

9/2/2010 7:00:28 PM

call their bluff. if not, have them pay for everything up until you move in.

they will most likely not cave and want to list the place again.

9/4/2010 10:37:40 AM

Yeah I rolled through there on Friday and they had a dehumidifier in the kitchen, the ceiling was torn out and there were about 4 or 5 fans going -- 3 of them were blowing under the carpet. Upstairs smelled like mildew, so I've already decided that I'm not staying there unless the homeowner replaces the carpet. I'll probably lose the place but if this dude is that much of a cheapskate that he cuts corners on something like this then he's most likely some sketchy slumlord who doesn't give a fuck about anything.

9/5/2010 4:11:10 PM

Checked out the place this morning and there was no smell present anywhere in the place. I'm still extremely cautious about the carpet/padding and future issues arising though. Anyone have specific experience in trying to avoid replacing carpet? How cheap and sketchball does this sound or is it something that homeowners typically 'try first'? To me it seems as if I had any type of worthwhile insurance, I would just make a claim and take the opportunity to make whatever repairs on my townhouse were needed, rental property or not.

9/7/2010 11:31:28 AM

I would say cut your losses now. Anywhere I've lived that I've had a 'bad feeling' about, or had some kind of bad experience like this, things only got worse and it always ended badly.

I'll admit it would have felt like a pain in the butt to bail on those places at the time, but with what I went through later it definitely would have been worth it.

9/7/2010 3:17:14 PM

run, don't walk, away from this place. i've had water damage before - in a home i owned, not rented. no, no, no times a million infinity. a smell, or lack of smell, is the really the least of your worries. leave now. get back your deposit. you can't live there right now, you are out, give me the deposit - peace.

from your description i would be very worried about mold. water sitting for 1 day+ = mold. the water mitigation guys with the fans and dehumidifiers will get that place dry as a bone, but there is never a guarantee against mold in some place you can't see. there are also so many other potential issues - electrical, hvac, etc. - none of which you will be handling, as you are not the landlord, so things can be easily covered up. the biggest thing - how did the damage occur in the first place. shoddy workmanship? is the psi into the place too high? not to mention that, buy general rule, contractors take forever. if the landlord says this will be done in two week it will take one month.

be thankful this didn't happen when all your stuff was in the place. don't make the mistake of risking that in the future.

9/8/2010 2:41:25 PM

Yeah now I"m in a bit of a spot, my current two roommates are going to definitely be out of this place by October 1st and I'm sure that I'm going to be disappointed with any place I find at this point.

The main pipe leading to the toilet upstairs is what burst. I don't know if this was because the landlord was too cheap to transfer utilities to his company for the period that the rental was unoccupied or just poor build quality. Honestly, I would have no problem with the contractors taking longer because if I could have held the place for 6 weeks instead of 2 with my deposit I would have. It's actually quite the opposite, I'm worried that 1 week is a stupid time estimate and is evidence of a rush job.

I would say the water was turned on at 10:30AM Sept 1st and ran until I found it at 8AM Sept 2nd. Upstairs bathroom had water that migrated the carpet and eventually leaked below the subfloor to puddle on the kitchen ceiling. So what you're saying is that even if the landlord caved and offered new carpet, then it would still be a bad decision to move? What about a 6 month lease?

9/8/2010 7:43:53 PM

Man you really are trying really hard to live in that place.

Why keep replying on here? Just move in.

9/9/2010 12:23:31 PM