Why?

4/17/2010 6:02:26 PM

I've got a 27cc 4 stroke... Why not?

4/17/2010 6:14:33 PM

Go-Ped?

4/17/2010 6:22:26 PM

i'm just confused as to why you'd go 4-stroke when you're working with such a small displacement for a relatively low-rpm, high-torque situation such as a go-ped

i mean i'd assume you want the biggest bang for your buck

i realize the logistical benefits as far as ease of refueling and repair, but damn it's not that hard to mix 2-stroke oil in and get that extra power

[Edited on April 18, 2010 at 5:31 AM. Reason : sdaf]

4/18/2010 5:30:19 AM

EPA

4/18/2010 9:08:09 AM

^they still sell the 49cc zuma 2 stroke in usa

i do agree with the OP. more power > less power. i still dont get why anyone without a dwi would get a 50cc. too dangerous to have cars flying past you imo

[Edited on April 18, 2010 at 9:32 AM. Reason : f]

4/18/2010 9:27:50 AM

i don't get why anyone without a DWI would get a scooter, at least in America...but what do I know?

4/18/2010 10:01:13 AM

to save gas?

4/18/2010 10:14:31 AM

I'd much rather have a small motorcycle

4/18/2010 10:18:40 AM

I can give you some insight as to why I enjoy scooters.

Scooters are also nice because there are tons of ways to modify them. Anyone can buy a 1200cc motorcycle and cruise at 75 mph all day.
Scooter trash are first and foremost tweakers that customize everything. Doing less with more.

There's a whole culture in scooter clubs, particularly the ones oriented to classic 2 stroke, manual shift bikes like Lambrettas and Vespas. You also have a fair number of British expatriates who are used to the lifestyle.
The crowd is generally younger, more educated, and a bit liberal. You drink a lot of beer.
The Harley set, with their loud bikes and conservative politics are not our niche. Nor are the sportbike posers who want to kill themselves off by doing wheelstands or gunning it over 100 mph on the interstate.

It's sort of like why there are a number of people on TWW are in a Land Rover Club. There are plenty of offroad clubs that cater to Jeeps or other vehicles.
There are certainly cheaper ways to offroad. You just end up liking the people and the (often unusual) machines better. If I were to switch to a full blown motorcycle, it would be a Norton, BSA or Royal Enfield.



[Edited on April 18, 2010 at 9:03 PM. Reason : .]

4/18/2010 9:01:30 PM

^^some dont have that option

4/18/2010 9:47:07 PM

Quote :

"gunning it over 100 mph on the interstate."

Most cars can do that with ease son. When we start talking 150+mph, it becomes more practical to use a bike IMO, simply because it takes just a few seconds to get up to that speed and back down to a reasonable speed with a decent bike. This minimizes the time you spend at said speed and maximizes the adrenaline rush of accelerating to that speed.

For me, speed itself isn't particularly exciting, it is the high change in speed that I enjoy. Even more so, a high change in acceleration (jerk) is particularly nasty, in a good way.

4/19/2010 5:34:30 AM

Quote :

"The crowd is generally younger, more educated, and a bit liberal. You drink a lot of beer. "

many of the ones i see are older, less educated, and a bit homeless.

4/19/2010 6:48:30 AM

they drink a lot of bum wine

4/19/2010 8:04:11 AM

Hipsters!

http://www.latfh.com/

[Edited on April 19, 2010 at 9:02 AM. Reason : dd]

4/19/2010 9:02:04 AM

just to chime in, I bought my scooter because it was a LOT cheaper than any bike worth purchasing (that i found on CL) and seemed simpler, easier to repair. I got my 150 for like $700. I wanted a temporary, cheaper, gas saving option and I didn't have $1300+ to put into a motorcycle at the time. Plus, I'd never ridden a two wheel motorized vehicle before and I wasn't sure if it'd be for me, but if I can wreck it and fuck up my shoulder and still ride it, I think it'll be something I continue for a while.

4/19/2010 9:38:28 AM

Quote :

"Most cars can do that with ease son"

except for the gm cars that are limited to 97mph

4/19/2010 9:40:50 AM

Quote :

"50cc 4-stroke"

Quote :

"Why?"

because 2-strokes last all of 2000 miles before they're scrap? the honda met/ruckus 50cc 4-strokes can be expected to last ~15k miles before they need major work, and there are a number of accounts (taken with a grain of salt, of course) of these same engines getting 25-30k before they conk out...they're cheap, easy to tweak/maintain, have a large following, and they're great for DIY-ers

if you're comparing cheap 50cc chinese 2-strokes to cheap 50cc chinese 4-strokes, you have a point...if you're comparing ANY 2-stroke to any quality 4-stroke (honda and yamaha in particular), 2-strokes are crap in terms of quality

sure, 50cc 2-strokes have a lot more power than their 4-stroke counterparts, but you can't LEGALLY drive them over 30mph without a license and insurance, anyway, so who cares? if you have no intention of following the law and you still want a scooter, why not just go ahead and get a 150cc? i won't say no one ever gets pulled over while on a scooter, because i'm quite sure that it DOES happen, but there are so many large-frame 50cc scoots out there that i think that you'd be hard-pressed to find a cop that 1.) could tell that it was larger than 50cc beyond a shadow of a doubt, and 2.) cared enough to pull you over unless you were being stupid with it

if you want a 50cc for the sake of taking it out once a week for fun, then yeah, i don't see the point...if you want reliable transportation, there's no question that a 4-stroke, for the AVERAGE rider, is the way to go (even if it's a chinese scoot)

4/19/2010 9:56:31 AM

Quote :

"except for the gm cars that are limited to 97mph"

MOST

4/19/2010 10:21:11 AM

Quote :

"many of the ones i see are older, less educated, and a bit homeless."

You are only focusing on one segment of the market. Look at the range of people who drive cars... some drive 89 Ford Festivas and some drive 2010 BMWs. Sure, there are DWI bikes, usually cheap $300 Chinese pawn shop bikes beat all to hell. But there is a large and ever growing segment of the population who like the convenience and fun inherent in these bikes. Personally, I own two: a 150cc 2 stroke manual shift (2008 Genuine Stella) and a 250cc 4 stroke automatic (2005 Honda Big Ruckus), both licensed and insured.

4/19/2010 1:13:27 PM

thanks quag for the first relevant insight, makes more sense to me now.


and nothing at all against you and your passions, scuba, but let me attempt to illustrate a point here:

Quote :

"Motorcycles are also nice because there are tons of ways to modify them. Anyone can buy a 50cc scooter and cruise at 25 mph all day. Biker trash are first and foremost tweakers that customize everything. Doing more with more. There's a whole culture in biker clubs, particularly the ones oriented to classic 2 and 4-stroke, standard and suicide-shift bikes like dual sports and bobbers. You also have a fair number of Euro-expatriates who are used to the lifestyle. The crowd generally spans all ages, all educations, and all political affiliations. You drink a lot of beer. The scooter set, with their traffic-binding bikes and self-righteous politics are not our niche. Nor are the 50cc boozers who want to kill themselves off by doing 25mph on capital blvd. It's sort of like why there are a number of people on TWW are in a Land Rover Club. There are plenty of offroad clubs that cater to Jeeps or other vehicles. There are certainly cheaper ways to offroad. You just end up liking the people and the (often unusual) machines better. If I were to switch to a half-blown scooter, it would most likely be a bare-bones 2-stroke tweaked to put the front wheel in the air on its way to 80mph."

mostly just playing devil's advocate here, but many of the points and generalizations you make can be said of any automotive enthusiast club. I fully understand the joy in tooling on motors whether it's a 27cc motorized bicycle, a 2.6L Triumph, or a '57 stepside chevy, but you can't claim that customization and niche passions are limited to scoots.

I ride, and while I would love a loud-ass harley or a UDM bmw, my real goal is to build a completely custom road pounder from the ground up. Anyone can buy and ride a stock bike or scooter.

4/19/2010 3:11:40 PM

i've got that blue vento that's been passed around from twwer to twwer...what should i do with it? i'm pretty sure it's a 50cc 2-stroke, but since it's broken into a billion pieces, i don't know for sure...the frame's good, in any case

i'm thinking 250cc

4/20/2010 10:34:48 AM

Honestly I'm surprised that 2 stroke engines are still legal...in leaf blowers or motorcycles.

4/20/2010 3:34:36 PM

^ ditto...i think they blow out a full 25% of their fuel mixture in exhaust...aside from the fact that they are indeed powerful and simple machines, they are horribly inefficient and unreliable

4/20/2010 5:07:15 PM

tell that to the Evinrude E-TEC

[Edited on April 20, 2010 at 5:09 PM. Reason : i hope i don't ever have to run a 4 stroke outboard]

4/20/2010 5:09:25 PM

^ i just educated myself...that IS actually pretty cool: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/IAME44-1_e-tec.pdf

i suspect, though, based on the wording of their claims, that the numbers they're reporting are only at idle...seems like their system has GREATLY reduced emissions and increased fuel efficiency, but largely at idle (and considering how inefficient and dirty 2-strokes are at idle, this IS a big deal, i admit)

still, it's cool...i've never owned or operated over time a 2-stroke, so i don't really know how to evaluate this statement: "The average user of a 50-hp E-TEC will go through two quarts of oil per year."

is that good compared to "regular" 2-stroke engines? to me, in my ignorance, that still seems bad because that oil is burned...i assume my car doesn't burn 2 quarts of oil in a year

[Edited on April 21, 2010 at 8:20 AM. Reason : .]

4/21/2010 8:18:50 AM

Two quarts of 2-stroke oil a year is pretty damn remarkable.

Keep in mind that 2-stroke oil is actually formulated to combust somewhat and NOT leave ash or particulate deposits.

4/21/2010 9:55:38 AM

Quote :

"still, it's cool...i've never owned or operated over time a 2-stroke, so i don't really know how to evaluate this statement: "The average user of a 50-hp E-TEC will go through two quarts of oil per year." is that good compared to "regular" 2-stroke engines? to me, in my ignorance, that still seems bad because that oil is burned...i assume my car doesn't burn 2 quarts of oil in a year"

i would like to know what kind of average operating time they assumed. probably something like going fishing a couple days each month or something like that. 2 qts per year would be outstanding for that type of operation.

from an emissions standpoint, sure, burning oil is worse than burning gasoline. the emissions reduction from switching to a 4 stroke outboard isn't worth the added maintenance. 4 strokes need oil changes, belts, valve adjustments, etc. 4 strokes also have a lot higher weight/horsepower and generally worse holeshot, which is important in boats. i feel that technology like the E-TEC is a good balance.

anyway, i realize the thread is about scooters, so carry on.

4/21/2010 11:53:20 AM

They assumed 10hrs/yr

4/21/2010 12:14:31 PM

well, i'll put it this way, i can burn 2 qts of oil in my eighty-something model 30 hp Mariner outboard in probably less than 5 hrs

[Edited on April 21, 2010 at 12:26 PM. Reason : that's going with suggested mix ratio. no oil injection, obviously.]

4/21/2010 12:25:45 PM