Quote :

"NEW YORK (AFP) – An ambitious plan to build a mosque next to New York's Ground Zero is prompting hope -- and anger -- in a city scarred by terrorism. Boasting a mosque with sports facilities, a theater and possibly day care, the center would be open to all visitors to demonstrate that Muslims are part of their community, not some separate element. "There's nothing like this that we know of in the United States," Rauf told AFP. "This will be a community center for everyone, not just for Muslims, but non-Muslims." Others compare the idea to building a German cultural center at Auschwitz. "Spitting in the Face of Everyone Murdered on 9/11," writes Blitz, a self-described "anti-jihadist newspaper." That level of anger is not uncommon among New Yorkers who blame Islam, rather than just Al-Qaeda or other militant groups, for 9/11 and the global confrontation with the United States. "This is the wrong neighborhood to put the mosque in," Scott Rachelson, 59, said as he went to his office. Rachelson, who works with people seeking compensation over 9/11 related damages, said his life changed forever the day that two hijacked airliners smashed into Manhattan. "I was here. For me, and everyone else who was here, we have post-traumatic stress disorder," he said. "It feels like yesterday." A woman living in the apartment building next to the proposed mosque said she couldn't accept the project. "I'd be lying if I said it didn't make me a little nervous," said Jennifer Wood, 36, as she took her young son for a walk. "It seems a little in the face, a little too much too soon. I don't know why it has to be here -- this is a big city." "

Two blocks from Ground zero. The cultural center will be called "Cordoba House" The Muslim occupation of Spain and its main city of Cordoba marked the pinnacle of Muslim conquest and rule.

There are something like 140 mosques already in NYC, this one seems a little too close, too soon.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100516/ts_alt_afp/usattacksislamnewyork911_20100516232758

5/17/2010 9:54:39 AM

If they own the land, can you really say anything?

5/17/2010 9:58:37 AM

this will be very interesting to follow.

freedom of religion in the US means for everyone but I completely understand the people against building this in that location.

is it typical for mosques to allow the public, ie non-muslims inside?

5/17/2010 10:05:43 AM

^^
"Owning" land in today's America doesn't mean much to the gov't. (Kelo)

They can build it if they want...They should budget a lot of money for graffiti removal.
Maybe put up some netting to catch all the Radio-Controlled planes that will continuously be flown into it.

[Edited on May 17, 2010 at 10:06 AM. Reason : .]

5/17/2010 10:06:25 AM

Quote :

"Maybe put up some netting to catch all the Radio-Controlled planes that will continuously be flown into it."

ahahaha

5/17/2010 10:10:48 AM

Quote :

"this one seems a little too close, too soon."

It'll always be too close, too soon for bigots

5/17/2010 10:21:01 AM

This is nothing but an even more emphatic symbol of the superiority of American culture when they do this.

Could you imagine if the situation was reversed? lol.... gg muslims proving how awesome western cultures are!

5/17/2010 10:24:36 AM

This would actually be really awesome. Such a thing would be a true bastion of tolerance and understanding in America; a big F U to islamaphobe Europeans.

5/17/2010 10:31:44 AM

imo we should change civics from theocracy to free religion to get the bonus +happy per religion in each city.

5/17/2010 10:38:06 AM

Is that English? I'm not certain what you just said.

5/17/2010 10:38:49 AM

I can only imagine the outrage from the left if a Christian church were built in this same site

OMG HOW DARE YOU PUSH YOUR IGNORANT CHRISTIANITY ON ME BILLY BOB

5/17/2010 10:49:06 AM

Quote :

"I can only imagine the outrage from the left if a Christian church were built in this same site OMG HOW DARE YOU PUSH YOUR IGNORANT CHRISTIANITY ON ME BILLY BOB"

hmm no

5/17/2010 10:52:21 AM

i, too, can deny my own personal religious double standards

5/17/2010 10:54:02 AM

God Damn, Shaggy.
What the fuck are you trying to say? Did you recently hit your head or something?

5/17/2010 10:57:45 AM

Quote :

"a big F U to islamaphobe Europeans."

I think the Europeans have every right, and every reason, to be fearful of the spread of Islam within their borders.

But there's really nothing that can be done about the Mosque near Ground Zero. It's clearly outside the government's purview.

[Edited on May 17, 2010 at 11:03 AM. Reason : ]

5/17/2010 10:58:54 AM

nm

[Edited on May 17, 2010 at 11:01 AM. Reason : nvrmind]

5/17/2010 11:00:55 AM

Quote :

"i, too, can deny my own personal religious double standards"

Would a church being built there even have made the news? No. Shut the fuck up.

Quote :

"But there's really nothing that can be done about the Mosque near Ground Zero. It's clearly outside the government's purview."

SHOULD something be "done"?

[Edited on May 17, 2010 at 11:04 AM. Reason : .]

5/17/2010 11:04:29 AM

outside of barring all religions from wasting otherwise useful space, no.

5/17/2010 11:06:33 AM

Who cares if it would have made the news or not

You like to constantly call out Christians for being ignorant rednecks...yet anyone who criticizes Islam is a bigot

Thats a religious double standard, plain and simple

[Edited on May 17, 2010 at 11:07 AM. Reason : ^^]

5/17/2010 11:06:50 AM

Quote :

"You like to constantly call out Christians for being ignorant rednecks...yet anyone who criticizes Islam is a bigot"

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nope

5/17/2010 11:11:11 AM

Quote :

"SHOULD something be "done"?"

Not necessarily, although it won't bother me if the imam is constantly pressured to denounce terrorism, and to voice his support for the rights of women and minorities, for freedom of expression and freedom of religion, and for secular governance.

[Edited on May 17, 2010 at 11:14 AM. Reason : ]

5/17/2010 11:13:30 AM

Can we not turn every thread into religion vs secularism?

5/17/2010 11:30:35 AM

Why do you think I didn't post anything.

5/17/2010 11:34:33 AM

I did mention five other things.

5/17/2010 11:37:06 AM

Quote :

"is it typical for mosques to allow the public, ie non-muslims inside?"

dumb question?

5/17/2010 11:41:53 AM

THe one of many problems i have with this is that America is accepting of all religion while muslim countries actively deter the spread of christianity.
so we are an import nation but cannot export. this can only go on for so long.
also muslims are determined to spread islam all over the world and their beliefs are not compatible with western culture and the constitution.
islam should be considered a crime

5/17/2010 12:01:47 PM

OH SNAP.

5/17/2010 12:02:13 PM

that post was so fucking scary I'm going to lunch.

5/17/2010 12:02:52 PM

Quote :

"also christians are determined to spread christianity all over the world and their beliefs are not compatible with western culture and the constitution. "

5/17/2010 12:04:35 PM

whats scary is reality
look whats going on in europe and come back and tell me if my post was scary

5/17/2010 12:04:39 PM

There should be no valid reason why anyone would have any objections to this in America except racist discriminating reasons of course.

5/17/2010 12:33:03 PM

what was scary was that you suggested that Christianity was an export of the US and DaBrid was like "right on!".

Golovko, I'm against it for non racist discriminating reasons but I'll spare turning this into another secularist thread for the sake of brevity. There are other reasons why one would be opposed to a new religious building.

5/17/2010 12:52:37 PM

The only objection I would have is if I lived/worked nearby because you know it's going to be a target for protests/idiot demonstrations and that would just be annoying as crap. And then of course for safety reasons because there's the possibility of violent attacks

5/17/2010 12:53:01 PM

Quote :

"Could you imagine if the situation was reversed? lol.... gg muslims proving how awesome western cultures are!"

5/17/2010 12:54:36 PM

^exactly

Quote :

"a big F U to islamaphobe Europeans."

Im sure they have thier reasons.

5/17/2010 1:10:00 PM

are they still planning to build that ugly shitheap to replace the towers, or did they come to their senses?

5/17/2010 1:18:06 PM

Quote :

"Golovko, I'm against it for non racist discriminating reasons but I'll spare turning this into another secularist thread for the sake of brevity. There are other reasons why one would be opposed to a new religious building."

You are against it because you are against freedom and freedom of religion. That's really all it is which is in fact discrimination.

5/17/2010 1:18:41 PM

You're actually right about that. I am against freedom of religion if it means building more churches,mosques,synagogues to pollute the minds of the free. We need to be tearing these buildings down, not building more.

But honestly they can build whatever building they want. I'm against it in principle. Were it a Christian church proposed to be built there I'd be against it for the same reasons. But then the smart people on this board would respond with "why don't you ever rail against Islam?" and around we go!

5/17/2010 1:27:27 PM

Quote :

"imo we should change civics from theocracy to free religion to get the bonus +happy per religion in each city."

/thread win

5/17/2010 1:30:10 PM

Quote :

"You're actually right about that. I am against freedom of religion if it means building more churches,mosques,synagogues to pollute the minds of the free. We need to be tearing these buildings down, not building more. But honestly they can build whatever building they want. I'm against it in principle. Were it a Christian church proposed to be built there I'd be against it for the same reasons. But then the smart people on this board would respond with "why don't you ever rail against Islam?" and around we go! "

So like I said you want to discriminate against people not like you. There is no room for that line of thinking in America. You should go to china or N. Korea. Probably feel more at home there.

5/17/2010 1:34:08 PM

Quote :

"what was scary was that you suggested that Christianity was an export of the US and DaBrid was like "right on!"."

no I didnt. where are you getting that? I posted that:

Quote :

"freedom of religion in the US means for everyone but I completely understand the people against building this in that location."

only meaning that I understand why there would be people opposed to this, not that I think it should be.

5/17/2010 1:54:01 PM

My bad. Misinterpreted your response.

5/17/2010 2:01:14 PM

whatever.

5/17/2010 2:12:29 PM

Quote :

"Two blocks from Ground zero. The cultural center will be called "Cordoba House" The Muslim occupation of Spain and its main city of Cordoba marked the pinnacle of Muslim conquest and rule. There are something like 140 mosques already in NYC, this one seems a little too close, too soon. "

This is the most clearest proof yet youre not actually a libertarian, youre just another conservative.

Quote :

"Could you imagine if the situation was reversed? lol.... gg muslims proving how awesome western cultures are!"

I'm pretty sure that's somewhat their actual point. To decry extremism on both sides...

5/17/2010 4:54:33 PM

I don't see a problem with it. Religious freedom and all.

In fact, we should just surround the place with mosques, maybe they won't try to destroy the next WTC if they know they will take out a dozen mosques if they do.

[Edited on May 17, 2010 at 5:00 PM. Reason : ]

5/17/2010 5:00:22 PM

^ Won't work. There have been several suicide bombings inside mosques in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq in the past few years.

Those who are hellbent on killing infidels wouldn't really care how many Muslims they kill in the process. And in fact, they would look at Muslims living in the West as traitors/infidels anyway.

5/17/2010 5:03:04 PM

Maybe we should surround the next WTC with lots of pictures of Mohammed

Obviously they would have to be pictures that Muslims approved of, and not cartoons or things making fun of him

0EP would that be any type of deterrent to a Muslim terrorist intent on blowing up something? Would the image of Mohammed cause him to think "hey I can't do this because it will desecrate the image of Mohammed"?

5/17/2010 5:08:42 PM

Yes, but that's a Catch 22.

Muslims will and can never approve of any image of Muhammad, no matter how positive. Even the handful of movies about him don't show any actor representing him. They only have a voice to represent him, and for example, if they want to show him walking or talking to a group of people, they show what he would be seeing with his eyes (point-of-view), not his face or body.

Here is a very famous one:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074896/

5/17/2010 5:19:37 PM

Here's another question for you

How would a devout middle eastern Muslim (read: not an American convert) view an American changing his name to something Muslim that had the word Mohammed in it

ie, Muhammed Ali, Nazr Mohammed, Mushin Muhammad

and yes some spell it differently...would a middle eastern Muslim think of that as a sign of respect, or as some type of blasphemy?

5/17/2010 5:42:49 PM

The American changing his name, is he converting to Islam? If so, obviously no problem as Muhammad is held as the best name for males.

If the American changing his name is not converting to Islam, then he would be viewed with suspicion by many. If the name-changer is known to be a friend of Muslims and for example, someone who studies Islam as an academic and has great respect for it, then most Muslims would be fine with it (except for radicals who would not like the fact that a non-Muslim has the name Muhammad). However, if it is someone who has no known history of being friends with Muslims, or studying Islam, or having respect for Islam, he would definitely be thought of as having an ulterior motive for changing his name. And of course, if it someone who is known to be antagonistic to Islam/Muslims/Muhammad, then he would most definitely become a target.

5/17/2010 5:53:50 PM