Quote :

"RALEIGH -- A mental patient set to be released from Dorothea Dix Hospital nearly 22 years after he shot nine people, killing four of them, plans to make his home in Wake County. Michael C. Hayes, 46, was found not guilty by reason of insanity on four murder charges by a Forsyth County jury in 1989. A judge ordered his release Friday. Hayes has been allowed off the Dix grounds without supervision for years and works as an assistant manager at a Raleigh convenience store. He also fathered two children while in state custody. Upon his release, Hayes is expected to move in with his girlfriend, a former Dix patient who is the mother of his children. The woman lives in Wendell, according to public records. Despite the privileges he has long enjoyed at the hospital, the idea of Hayes walking free is tough to stomach for the loved ones of those he killed. At his trial, a psychologist testified that Hayes was a paranoid schizophrenic who believed God ordered him to kill his victims, whom he mistook for demons. "We've been expecting this for a long time," said R.B. Nicholson of Winston-Salem, whose 24-year-old son, Tom, was fatally shot in the neck. "He hasn't been punished at all. His lifestyle in the hospital has been better than anything he had on the outside." 'A political prisoner' Karl Knudsen, the Raleigh lawyer who has long defended Hayes, said his client's release is overdue. "Michael Hayes has been a political prisoner for at least the last 10 years," Knudsen said, referring to how long Hayes' doctors have been saying he should be discharged from Dix. The lawyer said that Hayes' stay at the hospital has been unjustly prolonged by the efforts of elected judges and prosecutors in Forsyth County, who were unwilling to face the wrath of voters at the ballot box. Hayes was denied release following a 2007 hearing in which nine psychiatrists testified that he is no longer mentally ill and no longer a threat to himself or others - the legal criteria under which someone can be held involuntarily in a mental facility. The doctors said Hayes was drunk and high on illegal drugs when he went on a rampage with a .22 caliber rifle, and that he has shown no signs of psychotic behavior or been prescribed antipsychotic drugs since 1989. A discharge panel at Dix voted unanimously in April to recommend Hayes' release. Another courtroom hearing was held in Winston-Salem this month, where a parade of psychiatrists again said Hayes was no longer mentally ill. In an order issued Friday, Superior Court Judge Steve A. Balong of Forsyth said Hayes could be allowed to live on his own under the supervision of a case manager with Wake County's adult mental health agency. Must stay clean Hayes is barred from owning firearms or consuming drugs or alcohol, according to the order. Hayes must also maintain full-time employment and will undergo therapy intended to help him have healthy relationships with his girlfriend and their children. If Hayes violates any terms of his release, the judge can order him back to Dix. His case will be reviewed in one year. Nicholson said the judge's conditions amount to little more than a political fig leaf for the justice system's failure to punish an unrepentant killer. He said state legislators should consider a new law imposing a public registration process on those released after being found not guilty of violent crimes due to insanity. "We have a good statute on the books for controlling pedophiles," Nicholson said. "We need a law about tracking psychopaths. There's nothing at all for monitoring murderers like Hayes." Nicholson has had some success during the last two decades at getting the ear of elected officials. After it became known that Hayes was collecting a disability check while housed at Dix, Nicholson petitioned Congress for a change in the rules of who can receive Social Security payments. Hayes' checks were stopped. But Verla Insko, a Chapel Hill Democrat who co-chairs the state's legislative oversight committee on mental illness, urged caution before imposing a registration process like the one that Nicholson wants. "Our registration process for sex offenders has proven to be completely unworkable, and a terrible burden for our law enforcement community," Insko said. Knudsen pointed to recent online comments threatening violence against Hayes and said that making his home address or workplace public could put him and his family in danger. Knudsen declined a request to interview Hayes for this story, saying his client wanted to maintain privacy in his new life. A mother still grieves Linda Cantrell, whose 16-year-old daughter, Crystal, was shot five times by Hayes, finds it hard to muster much sympathy for her child's killer. Hayes has never once apologized to her for what he did, she said. She regularly places flowers on her daughter's grave, which is in a cemetery just a few miles from the rural crossroads where Hayes went on his deadly rampage. "He'll get to see his children grow up, but he stole that from me," said Cantrell, whose daughter was a gifted softball player preparing for her senior year of high school. "He's not sorry for what he did. He's gamed the system.""

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/05/18/487639/man-who-killed-4-to-be-freed.html

5/18/2010 10:59:22 AM

I agree with your well-thought out and constructed opinion on this issue.

Oh wait, you didn't post shit besides the article.

Am I to assume you don't agree with the assessment by a qualified mental health professional? Do you think paranoid schizophrenia isn't real?

Blame our mental health system (or lack thereof), not him.

5/18/2010 11:01:05 AM

Quote :

"Hayes is expected to move in with his girlfriend, a former Dix patient who is the mother of his children. "

Those kids are fucked.

5/18/2010 11:02:09 AM

Paranoid schizophrenia is a real disorder that affects a lot of people. If anything, the blame for this tragedy should fall on our government for not properly funding mental health programs in the state. Maybe if this man had received the proper diagnosis earlier in life, this could have been avoided.

5/18/2010 11:06:11 AM

Quote :

"Am I to assume..."

You're free to assume anything you want.

5/18/2010 11:06:56 AM

So what was your point of creating this thread?

5/18/2010 11:07:30 AM

Blame the government? Really?

5/18/2010 11:16:27 AM

Many problems of homelessness and crime can be attributed to poor mental health funding.

5/18/2010 11:19:47 AM

i blame guns

5/18/2010 11:20:51 AM

Quote :

"Michael C. Hayes"

I was hoping it was Michael P.S. Hayes

Hey God, who will you blame if/when he kills some more people now that he's out?

5/18/2010 11:36:39 AM

shoulda given the guy the chair long ago.

5/18/2010 11:38:26 AM

wdprice3 believes that people who attempt suicide should be put in prison for 10 years for attempted homicide.

5/18/2010 11:41:12 AM

nah, if they wanna off themselves, let'em do it.

5/18/2010 11:41:44 AM

^^^^
Haha, watch God say some bullshit like, "Those who passed tax cuts would be to blame."

^^
Source?

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 11:42 AM. Reason : ^]

5/18/2010 11:42:15 AM

LOL @ gronke ITT

5/18/2010 11:42:33 AM

Quote :

"Hey God, who will you blame if/when he kills some more people now that he's out?"

With that mentality, why let anyone out of prison after they commit a crime? Do you believe rehabilitation is impossible?

5/18/2010 11:44:56 AM

nah, we can't lock'em all up forever. I say we just have weekly firing squads at each prison. all the prisoners line up. shooters shoot for say... 10 seconds? then whoever is still living gets to live at least another week.

5/18/2010 11:47:14 AM

Quote :

"Do you believe rehabilitation is impossible?"

Do you not believe that repeat offenders exist? Do you not realize that more than half of people who commit violent felonies are repeat offenders?

So, who are you going to blame if/when Hayes murders again? The odds say he will, I'm simply wondering who you'll blame it on, because we all know you won't blame the murderer himself.

5/18/2010 11:50:16 AM

I think rehabilitation is generally possible, except maybe not for some crazy people.
But most important is that rehabilitation isn't something you can force on someone.
It's generally only successful when the criminal wants to be rehabilitated, and that's something we can't really control.

5/18/2010 11:50:51 AM

Prisoners should be like gladiators. Let them duke it out to the death on TV and eventually win their freedom.

5/18/2010 11:50:56 AM

Quote :

"Do you not believe that repeat offenders exist? Do you not realize that more than half of people who commit violent felonies are repeat offenders?"

So what's your solution? Lock everyone up forever due to the fear that they might offend again? Do you believe in your precious constitution all the time or just when it suits your motives?

Quote :

"The odds say he will"

Oh really? Says what, your idiotic fear based on watching television crime dramas?

Or show me your PhD in Psychology if you have one. I'd check in your ass, since that's where you're talking out of right now.

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 11:52 AM. Reason : ]

5/18/2010 11:51:40 AM

i still blame guns

5/18/2010 11:52:23 AM

I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will.

5/18/2010 11:52:44 AM

I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will.

5/18/2010 11:54:44 AM

Quote :

"Oh really? Says what, your idiotic fear based on watching television crime dramas? "

Quote :

"Fifty-six percent of the violent felons convicted in the 75 most populous counties from 1990 through 2002 had a prior conviction, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics."

So since the odds favor him murdering more people, who will you blame if/when it inevitably happens?

5/18/2010 11:54:53 AM

Damn, God. Why don't you just answer the question?
We understand your point, but your refusal to answer his simple question removes all your credibility.

Quote :

"I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will."

Quote :

"I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will."

Quote :

"I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will."

Quote :

"I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will."

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 11:55 AM. Reason : ]

5/18/2010 11:54:56 AM

A larger percentage of Black men are in prison than White men.

Therefore, I can draw from that statistic that the Black guy sitting next to me has a good chance of committing a violent crime.

Using this logic, I should imprison him for life.

Statistics are great!

5/18/2010 11:58:27 AM

I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will.

5/18/2010 11:59:19 AM

What logic?

5/18/2010 11:59:34 AM

why do you have to blame anyone? why can't it just be considered a tragic occurrence in the same way that hurricanes, earthquakes, etc..... are?

5/18/2010 12:02:32 PM

Quote :

"Fifty-six percent of the violent felons convicted in the 75 most populous counties from 1990 through 2002 had a prior conviction, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics."

You're making a huge leap based on this sentence alone.

This could mean anything.

Prior convictions? This could mean a person convicted of armed robbery has a previous assault conviction. Big leap from that to "A person convicted of homicide has a previous homicide conviction." Find me those statistics.

Secondly, again this falls on the government. Convicted felons are considered forgotten people by the rest of the population. They are sent into a hell-hole where they have a fear of constant rape and beatings. They are released into a world where no one wants anything to do with them. A world where they can't get a job easily and their record follows them for life even if they're rehabilitated completely. No one gives them a second chance for a mistake they may have made 20 years ago. Poor job placement. Poor therapy. Poor post-release treatment. Parole officers with too many people to watch due to lack of funding.

And you're surprised they offend again?

Quote :

"What logic?"

Now we're on the same wavelength.

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 12:03 PM. Reason : ]

5/18/2010 12:03:18 PM

Quote :

"Prior convictions? This could mean a person convicted of armed robbery has a previous assault conviction. Big leap from that to "A person convicted of homicide has a previous homicide conviction." Find me those statistics."

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/

Knock yourself out...although its funny you want stats now, when you were completely knocking them in your previous post

Quote :

"And you're surprised they offend again?"

So now you agree the odds point to Hayes killing again...I'll just save everyone time and assume you will blame the government's failure to properly fund mental health on Hayes' future murders, to save everyone else the time.

Because nothing says accountability like not blaming a murderer for murders he commits

5/18/2010 12:05:09 PM

^^
The logic I'm asking about is the one you used, which is clearly not the one they used.
I mean, again, we understand your point -- you think their logic is fucked, so you compared it to some fucked up logic. The only problem is, the two aren't comparable -- you must first demonstrate that the logic is the same, and you've failed to do that.

You've also failed to....

Quote :

"I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will."

^^^
That would count as answer, but he still hasn't given one yet.

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 12:09 PM. Reason : ]

5/18/2010 12:08:13 PM

^^ he's not a murderer. he was found not guilty

5/18/2010 12:12:16 PM

Oh yeah, you are technically correct. He shot nine people, killing four of them, but isn't a murderer because he used the insanity excuse. He did indeed shoot four people dead, but technically he wasn't convicted of murder.

My mistake.

5/18/2010 12:13:23 PM

Quote :

"he's not a murderer. he was found not guilty"

5/18/2010 12:14:21 PM

Quote :

"I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will."

Statistics on re-offending for violent criminals? How does that show he has a likelihood of re-offending?

Do you know him? Are you familiar with his mental condition?

And let's not forget:

Quote :

"^^ he's not a murderer. he was found not guilty"

So, if we're following statistics, he doesn't even apply to them in the first place.

5/18/2010 12:15:12 PM

Quote :

"At his trial, a psychologist testified that Hayes was a paranoid schizophrenic who believed God ordered him to kill his victims, whom he mistook for demons."

no wonder God has such a raging hard on for this guy...they were both in on the killings

5/18/2010 12:15:20 PM

Quote :

"Statistics on re-offending for violent criminals? How does that show he has a likelihood of re-offending? Do you know him? Are you familiar with his mental condition?"

STFU. What does that have to do with you not answering the question?
You could be right about all of that, but answer the fucking question!

Quote :

"Hey God, who will you blame if/when he kills some more people now that he's out?"

Quote :

"I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will."

Quote :

"Hey God, who will you blame if/when he kills some more people now that he's out?"

Quote :

"I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will."

5/18/2010 12:19:05 PM

I think the big story here is that God, who's MO on this site is often to make fun of anyone who isn't an atheist, is bending over backwards to defend this guy who not only believes in God, but says God ordered the killings

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 12:29 PM. Reason : note that God = TWW user...and God = spaghetti monster in the sky]

5/18/2010 12:24:45 PM

Quote :

"The doctors said Hayes was drunk and high on illegal drugs when he went on a rampage with a .22 caliber rifle"

...

5/18/2010 12:37:16 PM

Quote :

"Oh yeah, you are technically correct. He shot nine people, killing four of them, but isn't a murderer because he used the insanity excuse."

And here your bias shows through. You believe he's faking it, don't you? With no evidence.

5/18/2010 12:38:27 PM

if he kills again it will depend on the circumstances of those killings. he's not allowed drugs, alcohol, or guns so if he fails to comply with this then he is definitely to blame. he is supposed to be supervised by a case manager, so if the case manager doesn't supervise him appropriately there is some blame deserved there. if someone sells him a firearm without appropriate background checks, etc.... they share the blame also.

5/18/2010 12:39:44 PM

^^I like how the word 'excuse' is more important to you than the substance that points out that HE KILLED FOUR PEOPLE

But I'm just going off the statistics which say there is a 56% chance he kills again. What are you basing your opinion off of?

And why the sudden soft spot in your heart for an ignorant Christian? You like to normally belittle and make fun of theists. I mean this motherfucker is stupid enough to believe in God, why would you believe anything else he says?

What if he had plead insanity after shooting up an abortion clinic? What if this guy had shot up an an abortion clinic killing four people, and claimed that God had told him to do so. Would you have the same compassion for him in those circumstances? Hell no you wouldn't. You would use this guy as an example any time someone in TSB claimed something to the effect of Muslims being a bigger terrorist threat nowadays than other religions.

5/18/2010 12:40:08 PM

^^^^ That's what I noticed in the article too. So as long as your drunk or high you can claim insanity?

5/18/2010 12:45:25 PM

^ you also need to be a paranoid schizophrenic

5/18/2010 12:46:11 PM

Or maybe it was just the drugs and alcohol that "told" him to go on a shooting spree.



[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 12:49 PM. Reason : .]

5/18/2010 12:49:04 PM

a psychologist diagnosed him as a paranoid schizophrenic

5/18/2010 12:51:04 PM

Is he no longer a paranoid schizophrenic? Seems like schizo or not, if he hears voices in his head telling him to kill, we might not want to put him back out on the streets

5/18/2010 12:53:44 PM

Quote :

"he has shown no signs of psychotic behavior or been prescribed antipsychotic drugs since 1989"

maybe the medical professionals that dx as paranoid schizo and then said he shows no signs of psychotic behavior are to blame.

5/18/2010 12:57:08 PM