My engine went out on my Mazda RX-8 after 5 years and 35000 miles.

Not only are they replacing it with a 2010 engine free of charge, but I got a new Mazda 3 rental for the week.

Now that's customer service.

5/25/2010 8:56:23 AM

yay!!!!!

5/25/2010 8:59:43 AM

*like*

5/25/2010 9:17:15 AM

i heart mazda

5/25/2010 9:18:35 AM

Sounds like good customer service, but I'll take a car that doesn't need a new engine every 35,000 miles.

5/25/2010 12:12:52 PM

damn i just realized.. 35000 in 5 years? shit i have 41000 on my '08 6 after 2 years.

5/25/2010 12:58:25 PM

Yeah, I don't drive very much.

5/25/2010 1:03:05 PM

Quote :

"Sounds like good customer service, but I'll take a car that doesn't need a new engine every 35,000 miles."

5/25/2010 1:12:48 PM

That was pretty much inevitable. Mazda dropped the ball on the lubrication system for the '04-'08 Rx-8. The oil pressure was too low (which doesn't help the bearings) and they decided not to install oil nozzles on the middle of the rotor housing like they had been doing since '84. Without direct lubrication of the center, the apex seals wear unevenly. Mazda fixed this in the '09 models, which are understandably not selling well. Basically they changed stuff from the Rx-7 lubrication system and then went back to the old design in some ways.



that's the oil injector that was re introduced in 2009. All the 1984-2002 13B engines had an oil injector in the middle.



The 2009 oil pressure is very close to the oil pressure in the older 13B engines, about 1psi higher in terms of reference pressure. I'm sorry to say it, but your engine will continue to wear out an accelerated rate unless you put 2 stroke oil in your gas tank. About .5 ounce per gallon of gas will work in your case.

5/25/2010 1:31:24 PM

MMSJ

5/25/2010 1:32:05 PM

This wasn't a problem on the older engines as long as the metering oil pump was working. My '88 engine has a very simple metering oil pump operated by a drive gear on the front cover of the engine. The pump is connected to the throttle linkage with a rod. Oil is then distributed to four injectors based on throttle position. Two injectors are located in the center of the rotor housing (unlike the 2004-2008 13B-MSP engines) and two injectors are located in the intake manifold so that oil mist is drawn into the engine on the intake stroke. This old design consumes more oil but is generally considered to be the most reliable oil metering system by far.

5/25/2010 1:36:58 PM

Hey, you made it a little over two years without destroying the engine.

That's... something.

5/25/2010 3:18:25 PM

I'm pretty sure he did crash his car at some point though...

5/25/2010 4:40:31 PM

I did have a minor front-end collision.

5/25/2010 4:54:00 PM

My 8 started marking its territory last week 04 with 76k miles.

Did you get charged anything out of pocket? They re-use the water-pump, injection, etc?

5/25/2010 9:41:25 PM

I don't know yet. It hasn't been fixed yet.

5/25/2010 10:15:00 PM

are you sure it's not bad coils? They frequently fail on those cars.




[Edited on May 26, 2010 at 1:10 AM. Reason : what was the compression? even on all faces?]

5/26/2010 1:08:51 AM

Who cares if it was bad coils?
Get free engine; sell car. Bike everywhere.

5/26/2010 1:44:51 AM

If it's bad coils a new engine won't fix the problem unless they install new coils as well.

5/26/2010 2:10:40 AM

What a horrible engine design. I'm not going to say anything else.

5/26/2010 10:12:27 AM

Quote :

"are you sure it's not bad coils? They frequently fail on those cars."

I thought it was, but they haven't told me anything aside from "we're replacing the engine." When I brought it in, I specifically mentioned "maybe it needs new spark plugs or coils."

Quote :

"what was the compression? even on all faces?"

No clue.

Quote :

"If it's bad coils a new engine won't fix the problem unless they install new coils as well."

Well, that sounds like their problem. As long as this is free of charge for me, I don't care.

5/26/2010 10:16:36 AM

how long did they expand out these warranties?

5/27/2010 9:00:20 AM

Mine is 6/100k transferable.

5/27/2010 2:02:47 PM

Ive always liked the car, but i coudlnt deal with the gas milage for that power

5/27/2010 10:08:05 PM

I get 7 on track

5/28/2010 8:00:50 AM

They replaced the engine and the transmission. 2010 engine they said. This was free of charge.

They also said it needed a new intake, which I had to pay for. $475.

I drove it off the lot. The problem is still there.

I'll describe it again: It's a distinct loss of power, especially in the lower end of the powerband. When I start off in 1st gear, it's incredibly sluggish, almost like it's out of fuel, from idle to 2k RPMs. This also happens in second gear up to about 3k RPMs. And then once it passes around 4k, the acceleration will kick in, almost like a turbocharged engine.

On occassions, say if I am taking a turn and accelerating in 2nd gear, and I start at a low RPMs, it will accelerate normally from about 700-1500 RPMs, drop out (to the point at which I lurch forward because I'm anticipating the acceleration) from 2000-3500, and then "kick" back in at 4000. Even then, the acceleration doesn't feel anything normal.

Another weird symptom? It feels fine when I start the engine cold. In the mornings it runs normally, and then once it warms up this crap starts happening again.

This has been coupled with a difficulty in starting the car. Mazda claims I need a new battery, but could this whole thing be a spark plug related issue? Would that explain both the acceleration weirdness and the difficulty in starting? They might have kept the same spark plugs when they replaced the engine as well.

I took it to Adv. Auto to get a new battery, per the recommendation of the dealership, to fix the "takes awhile to turn over" problem. I pull in, we test the current battery, and it is at like 60% of normal capacity (or whatever measurement they use). So I purchase an Autocraft Gold battery for $100.

We go back outside to install it, and I notice this QUICKLY GROWING POOL OF COOLANT underneath my fucking car. It turns out the tube that runs from my coolant tank into my engine has a rather tiny hole, but that's spurting out boiling hot coolant everywhere. Probably from when they installed the engine. We manage to pull it off, cut off the end of the hose, and put on a new clamp, all while barely avoiding third degree burns from coolant spewing everywhere. We add some coolant, and finish installing the battery. All good, right?

I go to turn on the car and it has the SAME FUCKING TURNOVER PROBLEM.

I left a rather upset message with my contact at the Mazda dealership, about how I am $100 shorter and with 1st degree burns on my hands and I'm still having the same problems as when I dropped the car off. I hope he calls me back tomorrow.

6/7/2010 6:43:15 PM

it's a good thing they are offering good service. their cars suck ass and need to do anything possible to just stay in business.

6/7/2010 8:04:18 PM

There lil 1.6 and 2.0 motors they put in the Protege are bomb proof and then some.

6/7/2010 10:48:01 PM

Questions that come to mind:

Did they replace the coils? Do you have the updated replacement starter that Mazda came out with?

6/8/2010 3:39:27 AM

have you posted/looked over on Mazda Forum? maybe they can be of help?

http://mazdaforum.com/forum/

6/8/2010 8:07:33 AM

Quote :

"Questions that come to mind: Did they replace the coils? Do you have the updated replacement starter that Mazda came out with?"

That's what I'm going to ask, in addition to the spark plugs, whenever I can bring it back in.

6/8/2010 8:35:22 AM

There is a replacement starter that a TSB addressed, but it is mucho expensive if you are out of bumper-to-bumper warranty. But I still have the original battery and starter and have dealt with the long starting action. Otherwise the bitch floods

If the coils were weak, it would fade out in the upper rpms, correct? I have used coils I can ship you foc, but they are 75k miles used. I did not have ignition symptoms before replacing, just did it out of preparing to go on track.

I would guess there is an intake valve not acting correctly for your low power problem. There is a bunch of variable length and volume ducting on the intake and engine that acts on rpm; if the engine is not metering the additional air with a duct opening it wont deliver the fuel.

6/8/2010 8:52:16 AM

I should just sell this car. I need to in two months anyway.

6/8/2010 8:56:24 AM

Thread-stealing: Speaking of Mazdas, my girlfriend has a 1995 Mazda Millenia S that just threw a check engine light. Are there any good mechanics around here that would know there way around an old Mazda like that?

6/8/2010 9:17:41 AM

I would imagine that the first step would involve finding out what the code is. You can do that at any auto parts store.

6/8/2010 9:18:51 AM

1995 is pre obd2 port.

6/8/2010 9:21:55 AM

FFFFFFFFfffffffffffffffffffff

6/8/2010 9:30:11 AM

@Stein:

the guys at Sports and Compacts on Hillsborough street do great work and they're really nice guys. labor isn't really cheap but you do get what you pay for

6/8/2010 9:47:16 AM

I'm still not even convinced your motor blew (not that it was going to last a long time anyway though). You really should have asked to see the compression test results before they installed a new motor. You can't always trust dealerships to make expert diagnosis on specialized sports cars, whether they are Rx-8's or anything else with an unusual design.

It sounds like you may have a problem with your intake system as well. The intake manifold is designed to open in stages. That sounds exotic, but it's really the same basic stuff as the TVIS system on the MR2 and other staged intake systems like on the GSR/NSX, oldschool ZR1 Corvette, 3000GT, etc. So it goes like this:

-- primary runners open at very low rpm, primary intake ports active

-- secondary runners opened by vacuum using the secondary shutter valve for mid range (opens like toyota TVIS system). primary and secondary intake ports active

-- auxiliary ports open with a motor (just like a 3000GT) so now all intake ports are open. using vacuum, the factory intake pipe shortens in length (variable fresh air duct) as a type of resonance tuning

-- at very high rpm the variable dynamic intake system activates by vacuum. This effectively shortens runner length and increases plenum volume to take advantage of pressure waves as the intake ports close. It's really the same as other systems that have been used for the past 20 years.



You can see this additional plenum casted into the middle of the lower intake manifold.



You can also see all the little actuators and valves for the sequential dynamic air intake system I have been describing here. In the very middle are the primary intake ports of the manifold. At the very edge are the secondary intake ports which are controlled by a vacuum operated valve in the manifold. Just inside the edge, offset from the secondary ports, are the auxiliary runners and sleeves. The sleeves rotate to open the auxiliary ports by using a motor. The very middle of the intake manifold casting is for the Variable Dynamic Intake (VDI) system, which has a little vacuum operated rotating valve to adjust the plenum size. Again, there's really nothing that unusual about the basic intake manifold design if you look at what other manufacturers have been doing.

Maybe the tech didn't hook up the vacuum tank properly or made a mistake in the plumbing?


[Edited on June 8, 2010 at 12:17 PM. Reason : ever heard of rx8club.com ?]

6/8/2010 12:09:10 PM

Quote :

"It sounds like you may have a problem with your intake system as well."

Well, they charged me $475 for "a new intake," so..........

6/8/2010 1:32:31 PM

Post the work order/invoice which should include part numbers. I have the OEM parts catalog.

6/8/2010 2:14:45 PM

It's at home. I can post it tonight. I'll be dropping it off at the dealership this afternoon, and I'm making sure to take the person working on the car for a drive so I can show them exactly what I'm talking about.

-----
EDIT:
Another example symptom: Last night when I was going home I was on I-40 EAST towards Harrison avenue, where there's that large upward hill.

On it, I was in 4th gear at about 40 mph. I pressed down on the accelerator and it did that... oh god, how can I describe it.. what happens when you give the car gas but it hasn't warmed up yet? and it does that surge/cut out/surge/cut out sensation where it feels like it's about to stall or it's not getting enough fuel? I can't really describe it well, but that a surge and loss of power that shakes you forward and back. It did it then, but I was applying firm pressure to the pedal and I had been driving it for the past 15 minutes.

I dunno, it's just frigging annoying.


[Edited on June 8, 2010 at 2:28 PM. Reason : ]

6/8/2010 2:23:31 PM

it starts bucking. i know exactly what you're talking about. i remember my rx-7 doing the same thing although i don't remember why/when it did it.

6/8/2010 3:17:55 PM

I couldn't reproduce it for the guy. He said that they replaced the spark plugs and that he personally tested the coils. He said that the starter issue was "normal and expected."

I asked him if I sold this car if another mechanic would find any issues with it. He said they wouldn't.

So screw it. It's for sale.

6/8/2010 5:18:28 PM

^

If i were you i would say, if that is normal and expected, let me drive a new one on off the lot. If it does it then ill walk away, if not then you fix it, and fix it right.

6/10/2010 8:39:06 AM

and they would laugh at you. just like they did when you bought a rotary.

6/10/2010 8:50:42 AM

^^I was actually thinking about that afterwards, if I said "Well, go drive around a 2010 model and then drive mine. There should be a negligible difference in power."

6/10/2010 2:58:48 PM

Quote :

"and they would laugh at you. just like they did when you bought a rotary."

6/10/2010 3:15:51 PM

Hey I see what you did there, you quoted what he said to accent the point. You're pretty catchy, you know that? Where did you get that kind of sense of humor?

6/10/2010 3:17:07 PM

Worked with my buddies mustang

6/10/2010 3:21:13 PM