Hey TWW,

I just got a phone call from my girlfriend a bit earlier -- apparently this morning someone rear ended my girlfriend's car while she was stopped at a red light. I am still not sure on 100% of the details, but what I was told is the following:

She is stopped at a red light -- had been there almost a minute

Other driver (Uninsured) somehow didn't see the fact the light was red and all other traffic was stopped and he proceeded to plow into the back of her.

Girlfriend calls the police, they came out and talked to him first (he admitted fault) and did the portion of the police report with him around. They then came to my girlfriend and got all of her information as well and finished the police report for her.

The officer told her everything she needed to proceed with filling an insurance claim was included with the paperwork she was given.

The officer got in his car and drove off -- girlfriend took a look at the paper work and notice two thigs:

1) No where in the police report does it state who is at fault one way or another, although it should be obvious -- is this something she should be concerned about? Should she contact the police dept/office involved to try and get that amended, or is it common for the police report to have no designation of fault. (It doesn't say fault was undetermined, she was at fault, or him -- it just kind of ignores fault in its entirety)

2) In reading the paperwork she was given, she realized the other driver has NO insurance... she was not made aware of this at any point by the other driver or the officer. To complicate matters, he has a VA license plate and the car is registered in VA, however his drivers license and permanent address are in Raleigh, NC. -- From this point, how should she proceed? I am 99.9% sure the appropriate answer is to contact her insurance company and let them handle it for her, but figured I'd ask here while I was at work to see what information I could scrounge up for her.

In situations where the at fault drivers has no insurance, how does that process usually work? My best understanding (IE: Google-fu) is that she will contact her insurance company and provide them with all documentation necessary. Her insurance company will pay for the repairs/rental/whatever, and the insurance company will pursue the uninsured driver to recollect any expenses. Is this correct? Also, is there any chance of this raising her insurance rates? She has been a great driver, no tickets, (2x accidents where she has been rear ended in the past, however those were 5+ years ago and both times the other driver was at fault (Other driver was following too close in hazardous conditions and second time was also hit at a red light while being completely stopped).

Any advice is greatly appreciated -- and yes, we will be contacting her insurance tonight after work, just trying to understand what we are getting into before we start.

6/14/2010 1:09:51 PM

Need to tell those boys to get up off yo girl's ass, mang. /chitchat

6/14/2010 1:12:07 PM

Quote :

"No where in the police report does it state who is at fault one way or another, although it should be obvious -- is this something she should be concerned about? Should she contact the police dept/office involved to try and get that amended, or is it common for the police report to have no designation of fault. (It doesn't say fault was undetermined, she was at fault, or him -- it just kind of ignores fault in its entirety)"

From what I understand fault is determined by the insurance company...I might be wrong though.

I thought it normally took a while to get the police report.

6/14/2010 1:14:25 PM

yeah, her insurance will get things taken care of, then they'll go after the uninsured party.

6/14/2010 1:14:58 PM

1) Unless a blatant act that was against the law was made and/or there were witnesses, a cop may not cite any one for being at fault on the ticket. That is usually left up to the insurance company to hash out.

2) Alert her insurance company. You are correct in that her ins co will handle repairs and rental wise then use their resources to recoup on their end (when I worked as a paralegal, I helped Nationwide collect money from people for that very reason). The only "uhoh" you might face is if she is injured. That's when you need uninsured coverage on your insurance to help out after medpay is exhausted (if she has that).

6/14/2010 1:19:06 PM

Wow, thanks for the quick responses! Definitely has helped me destress slightly While it isn't my car, I definitely plan on marrying her at some point, which makes this my future problem

And yea, after rereading my original post, I am tempted to post it in chit-chat at some point, I have a feeling it would turn into a fairly entertaining thread with my horribly worded sentences...

"Rear ended my girlfriend"
"Plow into the back of her"

etc/etc.. I could edit the post, but /shrug -- I appreciate all the good advice, information, and decent responses =-)

6/14/2010 1:23:13 PM

Well, as I understand it, it will be fine as long as she is covered via underinsured/uninsured motorist policy that she hopefully has on her car (its pretty standard unless you are being cheap). I can't remember, but I think that may be subject to a deductable.

And as others have stated, the insurance company finds fault. Although their finding is not final, and if they try to stick it to her, she can appeal this through a few offices within the Insurance Commissioner's office (SDIP director is the one I like), and their decision is final (no appeals). I have the great distinction of being one of the few people who have used bureaucracy to screw the insurance company without hiring a lawyer.

[Edited on June 14, 2010 at 1:26 PM. Reason : .]

6/14/2010 1:25:29 PM

Quote :

"it will be fine as long as she is covered via underinsured/uninsured motorist policy that she hopefully has on her car"

6/14/2010 1:35:11 PM

Yep ^ what they said. Exact same thing happened to me and I found out I didnt have that on my policy so I just had to eat it. I wanna say they told me without it I would be responsible for like the first $500 or so, but at least with mine they just clipped a corner so I lived with it.

For me I was just given a fake insurance policy number on the scene so I didnt find out till later they had no insurance. My question is why in a case like this if the cop finds the other driver has no insurance are they not arrested right there on the spot? Sucks you have to pay for insurance to cover fuckers who dont wanna pay for any just in case.

[Edited on June 14, 2010 at 2:04 PM. Reason : .]

6/14/2010 2:02:58 PM

correct me if I'm wrong, but why didn't the other driver get a ticket for driving without insurance?

6/14/2010 2:07:12 PM

police officers don't determine fault. i know this because i hit a car a couple weeks ago and the cop told me exactly that

6/14/2010 2:21:47 PM

Maybe since he was a Virginia resident? I suspect NC laws state that NC licensed drivers must have liability insurance, not every transient that drives through the state. And if my assumption is correct, he couldnt write a ticket on VA statutes (which are probably similar to NC).

6/14/2010 2:23:08 PM

Quote :

"correct me if I'm wrong, but why didn't the other driver get a ticket for driving without insurance?"

He very well may have -- I'll have to talk with my girlfriend later on tonight to get all of the details, but it sounds like the cop took care of everything with the other driver first, whom then left. Then the officer took care of all of Jennifer's paperwork as well. I don't know if he did/didn't get a ticket, I'm not even sure if she knows if he did or not

Quote :

"Yep ^ what they said. Exact same thing happened to me and I found out I didnt have that on my policy so I just had to eat it. I wanna say they told me without it I would be responsible for like the first $500 or so, but at least with mine they just clipped a corner so I lived with it. For me I was just given a fake insurance policy number on the scene so I didnt find out till later they had no insurance. My question is why in a case like this if the cop finds the other driver has no insurance are they not arrested right there on the spot? Sucks you have to pay for insurance to cover fuckers who dont wanna pay for any just in case. "

Sorry to hear you were in a crappy situation too! Question about that situation though -- why not take the other driver to small claims court? Am I missing something in this?

[Edited on June 14, 2010 at 2:38 PM. Reason : .]

6/14/2010 2:36:07 PM

You can take them to court. What are the chances they'll have the money if they couldnt afford basic liability?

6/14/2010 2:51:17 PM

Who said it's a cause of can't afford?

6/14/2010 2:54:31 PM

Most people who dont carry liability insurance are either stupid or poor.

6/14/2010 2:58:03 PM

There you go.

You answered your own question.

6/14/2010 3:01:09 PM

I am confused. Are you saying its more likely they are just stupid? because from my experience, stupid people are just as difficult to get money from as poor, even if you attempt to drag them to court.

6/14/2010 3:04:18 PM

Because for me it was just them trying to slide around at a red light because we were behind an 18 wheeler and they clipped my back right corner. Mainly just cosmetic with cracked and some missing paint no dent or anything so I just lived with it not worth the time or hassle to goto court. In hindsight when they offered me money to not call the cops I should have taken it, but when said money was like $20 I laughed and called.

6/14/2010 3:29:19 PM

Quote :

"police officers don't determine fault"

Not directly but they fill out the crash report (DMV-349) and issue tickets, both of which hold more weight for a claims adjuster than the word of those involved in the crash (in my experience). Here is the manual you can use to decode all the marks/numbers on the crash report: (http://www.ncdot.org/doh/preconstruct/traffic/safety/reports/TSI/DMV349_Manual.pdf)

VA allows drivers to drive without insurance at their own risk, so it is possible for a VA driver to legally not have liability insurance:

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/vehicles/uninsured_fee.asp

Hopefully she has uninsured coverage on her auto policy, the insurance company is responsible for paying out to her and then collecting payment in that case. If not then it'd be your (gf's) personal responsibility to attempt to collect payment or to take the person to court (and/or hire a lawyer).

6/14/2010 3:31:20 PM

proof of liability insurance is required to receive a drivers license in NC.

6/14/2010 3:47:37 PM

Be prepared to have to take this to small claims court. start saving every bit of paperwork.

Not sure on VA law, but as it was stated they might be able to drive without ins. You cant do this in NC (its actually a ticket).

Slso with the perm address in raleigh, and his license in raleigh, he should be following NC ins policy, which is on both the driver and the car I think. Id call a lawyer on this, but that there should hit the no ins bit and he should be given a ticket.

6/14/2010 3:51:41 PM

Quote :

"VA allows drivers to drive without insurance at their own risk, so it is possible for a VA driver to legally not have liability insurance"

$500 for uninsured fee? might as well get insurance.

6/15/2010 1:40:40 PM

Update:

She spoke to her insurance company last night and they are doing their magic in the background. Apparently, even though the other driver told the officer he did not have insurance, it is possible he may indeed have it and is trying to avoid getting his insurance notified. Either way, her insurance company is investigating it to find out.

Her coverage policy does indeed cover an uninsured driver causing an accident, however there is still a $500 deductible. From what she was told, she would be responsible for paying the $500 deductible up front, the insurance company would cover the rest of the repairs, and then in the background USAA (her insurance company), attempts to recover the $500 from the other driver (+ other costs I am sure). Once they recoup the $500, they pay it back to her.

Yay for stupid, uninsured, 31 year old losers. After thinking about things last night, one thing stuck out that really pissed me off about the whole situation... Why in the hell are uninsured drivers that are involved in accidents allowed to get back into their vehicles and drive off after specifically telling the officer they don't have insurance?

IMO if you are found to be driving without insurance, your car should be towed and impounded, not to be released until you provide proof of insurance on the vehicle -- I don't understand how this douche nozzle is able to keep driving around without insurance.

6/15/2010 1:59:53 PM

Quote :

"Why in the hell are uninsured drivers that are involved in accidents allowed to get back into their vehicles and drive off after specifically telling the officer they don't have insurance?"

Well my understanding is that in NC when/if you let your insurance expire without renewing or cancel your policy without getting a new one, the DMV is notified. Then within a certain number of days (30 maybe?) the DMV sends a letter stating that you do not have the proper insurance and therefore must surrender the vehicle's tags or you will be fined (even more than you already are) and your license revoked. So if the guy had a registered car in NC, without insurance his tags would have been suspended and the officer would have removed the tag from the vehicle and possibly impounded it. This guy had VA tags, though, and it's possible that those tags are still in good standing sans-insurance. That doesn't excuse the fact that he has an NC license and must have liability to have gotten it in the first place but I believe driving without insurance is just a ticket (nothing where they can arrest you or prevent you from driving away in a non-owned car which is insured by the owner, but you as a driver do not have proper liability insurance). So really there may have been nothing the officer could do to prevent him from driving away since the NC DMV can't revoke the VA tags and also didn't suspend/revoke his license.

[Edited on June 15, 2010 at 4:23 PM. Reason : red tape basically]

6/15/2010 4:20:32 PM

Quote :

"So really there may have been nothing the officer could do to prevent him from driving away since the NC DMV can't revoke the VA tags and also didn't suspend/revoke his license."

I agree completely with what you said My comment was more a general statement towards the NC laws that allow these drivers to drive off after something like this happens. I know the officer probably couldn't do anything in this situation to prevent it -- I just wish there would be some sort of reform or change that made driving in NC without insurance an offense that would lead to the immediate impounding of the vehicle until proof of insurance was provided. To go one step further, I think they should have to show proof of fixing any damages caused before their vehicle is released as well. Just my 2cents

6/15/2010 6:37:29 PM

The government isn't required to force people to have insurance...NC just happens to be one of many states that does. Doesn't mean they should start trying to give bullshit tickets to people from states that don't.

I don't see what the big deal is, there is insurance to help you better deal with uninsured people. Either buy it, or pay the extra fee when it happens. Trust me, the uninsured guy is going to have it a lot worse at the end of the day. The insurance companies have an army of employees working at getting money out of him.

6/15/2010 7:33:25 PM

Quote :

"proof of liability insurance is required to receive a drivers license in NC."

Yep, which makes the whole thing kind of fishy since he has a NC driver's license.

6/15/2010 8:18:41 PM

so he had insurance when he got his liscence but doesnt now. why is that fishy? people let there insurance lapse, it happens, whether it be careless or stupid. its not like they snag your DL the day it lapses.

6/15/2010 10:52:36 PM

CALL YOUR AGENT IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE QUESTIONS

6/16/2010 11:22:19 AM

Quote :

"CALL YOUR AGENT IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE QUESTIONS"

You have the reading comprehension of a retarded gnat. Here are some quotes to help you out:

From the original post:

Quote :

"From this point, how should she proceed? I am 99.9% sure the appropriate answer is to contact her insurance company and let them handle it for her, but figured I'd ask here while I was at work to see what information I could scrounge up for her."

Quote :

"Any advice is greatly appreciated -- and yes, we will be contacting her insurance tonight after work, just trying to understand what we are getting into before we start."

From the follow up post:

Quote :

"She spoke to her insurance company last night"

As for all of the helpful posts in this thread, thank you very much.

6/16/2010 3:58:31 PM

Update:

The crash report was finally posted online today... all I can say is LOL.

Turns out the other driver was cited for No Insurance and Failure to Reduce Speed. What makes this an LOL moment for me is the fact my girlfriend got a call last night from her USAA Insurance Agent that has been helping her through this... just to let her know that USAA discovered the other driver does indeed have insurance through State Farm. =-)

USAA is now in the process of talking to State Farm to get everything straightened out, but the good news is my girlfriend won't have to pay any sort of deductible, everything will get repaired, and from what I understand, lying and saying you do not have insurance when you do is a big "no-no" and will likely lead to this other driver having his coverage either raised quite a bit, or dropped in its entirety.

HAHAHA, Karma FTW

6/18/2010 2:26:22 PM

hahh nice, and it will fuck him over with his ticket too.

6/18/2010 3:12:19 PM

Maybe I understand incorrectly, but I don't remember showing proof of insurance when I got my license. You don't even have to own a vehicle to get a license.

6/18/2010 5:17:39 PM

Quote :

"Maybe I understand incorrectly, but I don't remember showing proof of insurance when I got my license."

In NC?
As has been discussed repeatedly in this thread and elsewhere, having liability insurance is required in order to get an NCDL.

6/18/2010 5:23:34 PM

Failure to maintain insurance is an arrestable offense, especially when you cause an accident.

I am surprised someone lied about that.

6/21/2010 8:56:25 AM

Quote :

"The government isn't required to force people to have insurance...NC just happens to be one of many states that does. Doesn't mean they should start trying to give bullshit tickets to people from states that don't. I don't see what the big deal is, there is insurance to help you better deal with uninsured people. Either buy it, or pay the extra fee when it happens. Trust me, the uninsured guy is going to have it a lot worse at the end of the day. The insurance companies have an army of employees working at getting money out of him."

i shouldn't have to pay more money for my insurance policy just because your retarded ass doesn't get liability coverage

6/21/2010 9:14:45 AM