I have a creek about 400 ft. away from where I want water. the elevation drop is about 25 ft, so I should be able to siphon it out of the stream through 400 ft of hose. The problem is I can't get the siphon started easily, as I first have to pump it uphill ~ 15 ft before it drops down the 40 ft to where I need the water. I could fill the hose first to prime it, but that would take a bit of work. I also have a 1/2 hp water pump that could start the flow, but I have no electricity.

Gimmie your solutions TWW.

7/20/2010 1:56:24 PM

basic geometry suggests if you're 400 ft away AND there is a change in elevation of 25 ft you're gonna need more than 400 ft of hose

7/20/2010 1:57:20 PM

the creek will not take off

7/20/2010 1:57:33 PM

Submerge the hose in the liquid to fill it. Cap the ends and drag it downhill.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 1:59 PM. Reason : I've done this many times in the past.]

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 2:00 PM. Reason : .]

7/20/2010 1:58:31 PM

If the hose is full of water at the start, you can start the siphon more easily. I dunno about that length necessarily, but if you had the whole hose full of water from the start, it should basically start on its own. (ie: dunk the whole thing in the water, making sure that one end remains in the water, and that you cap off the end that will travel with you to the point of use.)

But I'm not an engineer, just speaking from hillbilly experience.

**Just saw that what you said about priming it first. </useless input>

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 2:01 PM. Reason : .]

7/20/2010 2:00:39 PM

Quote :

"the creek will not take off "

winner.

7/20/2010 2:18:26 PM

Your pump can't do that much suction lift, what is the required head for the pump? You will need the pump closer to the creek and may need a different pump. I can go into more depth later.

Post specs for pump.

Wait is the creek 25' above you? What size pipe?

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 2:30 PM. Reason : m]

7/20/2010 2:27:58 PM

dig a 15.5' deep trench to drain the creek

7/20/2010 2:30:32 PM

Vaporize the water in the creek and build a condensing unit at the bottom of the hill.

7/20/2010 2:40:28 PM

Drink the water out of the creek and deliver one full bladder of it at a time.

7/20/2010 2:42:11 PM

Post pump specs/pump curve.

Also, you could probably rent a generator/borrow one to run the pump for a limited amount of time (Assuming you don't want a continuous stream of water).

7/20/2010 3:01:38 PM

http://www.pixeladdiction.com/Contest_entry.php?id=608&cad=115&type=c



Practice.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 3:04 PM. Reason : .]

7/20/2010 3:03:52 PM

rent a 3" trash pump that runs on gas and put it at the peak of the hill (el. 15.00). place the intake on the creek side (el. 0.00) with a floating strainer. place the outlet somewhere downstream, or directly where you need the water (el. -25.00).

7/20/2010 3:05:08 PM

I've never gotten more than 10 feet of lift with a trash pump, but that just may be my luck

7/20/2010 3:07:20 PM

Hire a prostitute that can suck-start a B-52.

7/20/2010 3:09:55 PM

Also, be sure that "about 25ft" is not "exactly 33ft".

7/20/2010 3:11:46 PM

yea, i had this similar problem about 2 months ago, but i only had to lift over a berm. we hooked up the 3" trash pump and lifted about 12 feet or so and it didn't seem to struggle.

7/20/2010 3:11:53 PM

Thanks for the input. yeah, my pump wouldn't be able to lift that water, But I'm fairly certain it could push water 15' up, I just need to connect it close to the creek. Sounds like my best bet is to borrow a generator and get it out there.

7/21/2010 10:42:16 AM

so the water will be going downhill? just (like has been said already) fill the hose with water, cap the end, and take it to where you want the water and release (making sure the other end is still submerged.)

7/21/2010 11:47:17 AM

you can push water a lot further than you can pull it. wha I'm wondering is how you have a creek that runs at a 25 foot higher elevation than an area 400 feet away.

how much water do you need? if you are trying to irrigate a garden, you're might need more water than what you'll get from a 1/2hp pump.

7/21/2010 12:00:28 PM

^ That'd be the easiest, but the hose in kind of shitty and hard to fill with water, plus I'd need to fill about 200 ft of it to get it up over the hill

7/21/2010 12:00:52 PM

Move "where you want water" about 400 ft. from its current location.

7/21/2010 12:10:38 PM

Quote :

"Submerge the hose in the liquid to fill it. Cap the ends and drag it downhill."

Why are we still discussing this?

7/21/2010 12:10:48 PM

Try the capping solution first. If that doesn't help, then look into other options. You need to keep this simple and sustainable. Also, I would suggest to have the hose relatively far underwater so you get the advantage of higher pressure from water at the entrance of the hose...as opposed to being right at the shore under not a lot of water

Also, be sure that all of the air bubbles get out of the hose when you're dunking it. The angle of the hose reel in the water may or may not allow air bubbles to get trapped, and when you're dealing with 400 feet of tubing I'm sure that's a high possibility...and a big problem for your self-starting siphon.

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 12:32 PM. Reason : lkj]

7/21/2010 12:30:50 PM

If you really want to nerd out with some engineering then search for home plans of a Hydraulic Ram pump. No electricity needed just flowing water. It could be more work than its worth but I've read that people have built them for $50 or so

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzbhx5zPn1Q&feature=related

Some crappy Plans:
[link]
http://outlands.tripod.com/farm/rampump.htm[/link]

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 12:56 PM. Reason : .]

7/21/2010 12:52:38 PM

What size pipe, you may be adding considerable head which is making it tough to siphon

7/21/2010 1:02:07 PM

^ just under an inch in diameter, so I guess that's likely?

7/21/2010 1:51:44 PM

Oh yeah your head loss from friction is easily more than your elevation change, you won't beable to siphon

7/21/2010 2:08:22 PM

^

Especially for 400 feet

but, might be worth a shot without one of us busting out a calculator

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 2:11 PM. Reason : lkj]

7/21/2010 2:10:24 PM

And I would be surprised if that pump being at the creek would help at all, that's a lot of head. Did you find a pump curve or any specs? You may be wasting your time.

7/21/2010 2:21:06 PM

Quote :

"GONNA NEED MORE THAN 400 FEET OF HOES"

7/21/2010 2:24:37 PM

do a lot of digging, put pipe underground

7/21/2010 5:40:41 PM

do a lot of digging, put pipe underground

7/21/2010 5:40:41 PM

Set up hose as you want it...start sucking on other end to prime it let em flow

7/21/2010 9:16:41 PM

you just need to spin the end of the hose fast enough over your head

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 9:25 PM. Reason : grammaarrrr]

7/21/2010 9:24:03 PM

Duck Tape.

7/21/2010 9:25:00 PM

^ I fully support this solution and all other engineers need to as well.

7/21/2010 9:44:51 PM

and GO!!!

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 9:56 PM. Reason : for some reason head loss is not in that equation ... add that on the end]

7/21/2010 9:50:41 PM

The house will take off.

7/21/2010 9:51:01 PM

^^ Dang you...but my formula is better becuase it has the variables for head loss and a pump/turbine!



Better break out the calculator

(And if any of you are taking the PE exam soon, know this equation...well)

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 10:00 PM. Reason : ]

7/21/2010 9:52:28 PM

he should just treat it as a frictionless system, then my equation will work just fine.

7/21/2010 10:01:53 PM

I had a test on it today in thermo. Go me!

7/21/2010 10:04:52 PM

The first question in my mind is do you actually own that section of the creek and if the hose in is in a very visible location will someone report you? I'm not sure someone is legally able to divert water flow in natural flowing water sources once they reach a certain size without some sort of permit. The next question is, before you just run a hose 400 ft away what exactly are you doing with it? Field irrigation?

7/21/2010 10:06:39 PM

creeks aren't located uphill from dry land, so I think by "creek" he meant "my asshole neighbor's pool". either that, or he's trying to drain a pond.

7/21/2010 10:39:35 PM

then where do waterfalls come from, b

7/21/2010 10:50:21 PM

^ There isn't dry land downhill from waterfall falls

7/21/2010 10:53:05 PM