So there were a few other threads but none specific to trying to pick between different branches.

Background: I got my degree in public relations and got way off track in what I've been doing the past four years. I'd like to get into public affairs - and the more I think about it the more I would really be interested in joining the military.

I was going to pick between the Air Force and the Navy because both of them offer PAO tracks and I could commission. I talked to an Air Force recruiter who said that it could take up to a year and a half to get in as an officer (if not longer). He recommended enlisting and possibly taking the the DLAB to see if I could qualify for linguist school. Once I get through linguist school, bump up from an E1 to an E4 then spend the next few months building my packet and then submitting it to become an officer (because I'd be eligible after a year and a half). I hadn't thought about becoming a linguist - but now that I think about it - it'd be fascinating and would set me up really well if I decide to get out after a 3 year commitment.

I'm waiting to see what the Navy has to offer - but does anyone have any opinions or experience with trying to pick tracks and/or branches? thanks!

(also now considering the army and trying to become a linguist with them... too many options at this point!!)

8/2/2010 9:29:40 PM

(this is Nerdchick )

I would look at how much an E1 and E4 makes before you make this decision. Pay tables are available online, you'll get base pay plus a housing allowance and maybe a bonus or 2. Remember you might not get picked up officer and will have to fulfill your enlisted commitment.

8/2/2010 9:36:35 PM

yea he showed me the pay scale.... i didn't think about the idea of not getting picked up til i read about it after meeting with him.

the pay is

8/2/2010 9:38:13 PM

I can tell you that in the Navy you could apply for PAO however as far as I understand the PAO board doesn't meet very often at all during the year to review applications, and only accepts a handful of applicants annually. On top of that, the vast majority if not all PAO accessions are applicants already in the Navy either transferring from another designator or applying from the enlisted side.

Bottom line, you would have to have a VERY competitive GPA, as well as outstanding ASTB scores, and a well-rounded extracurricular/work experience combination to likely be competitive for PAO directly, but the only way to be sure is to try and apply, you would probably hear back from the Navy before the Air Force, definitely within an year and probably sooner.

I would say a better bet for you might actually be applying for a different designator like SWO and then transferring later on, you would already know a lot about the Navy and be more well-rounded.

Someone like Nerdchick would also likely be able to transfer PAO after her nuclear power instructor stuff is done and she wanted to stay in the Navy.

Navy enlisted also has linguists if you like that stuff, google the 'CTI' rate for more on that.

8/2/2010 10:00:45 PM

On the plus side, if you go linguist to Officer you will be on the O1E scale which is very nice.

On the down side you could get passed over.

Linguists make good money but DLI the language school is very labor intensive, depending on your language you can be there for up to 18 months, 8 hour days, 5 days a week. Are you prepared for that? It becomes very tedious. Just weigh your options.

8/2/2010 10:02:22 PM

Labor intensive school doesn't bother me at all. My last three jobs have had me working upwards of 70 hours a week - so that doesn't phase me.

My biggest concern is not getting completely screwed. I have a college degree for a reason... I just don't want to get duped by a recruiter.

This is all helpful info. Thanks guys!

8/2/2010 10:24:19 PM

Luna, make sure you talk with an Officer recruiter, because an enlisted recruiter only cares about one thing: the bottom line (quota).

8/2/2010 10:52:46 PM

Plenty of enlisted have degrees, some I know even have masters degrees, don't go into the thing under the assumption that you are somehow above one or the other just for having a college degree. The caliber of applicant that is generally competitive in the officer programs usually involves people with 3.4+ gpa, leadership experience, etc, well rounded people.

Bottom line you have to want to go into the armed forces and serve your country, it can't just be another job and it really shouldn't be about the money. Defintely speak with both officer and enlisted recruiters about careers, do some research online, there are tons of forums.

Another factor is age and height/weight that you have to meet, most Navy officer programs you have to be commissioned before your 29th birthday unless prior service or one of several specific technical programs.

[Edited on August 2, 2010 at 11:03 PM. Reason : ]

8/2/2010 11:02:37 PM

I seriously wouldn't expect to go in and make it through Linguist school unless you are prepared to knuckle down like ^ said.



The rate of attrition in that school is crazy.

8/2/2010 11:04:37 PM

Why not try to go to OCS school, if your end goal is to be an officer?

Otherwise its whatever. My old roommate and childhood friend has enlisted in the marines and since he has his 4-year degree, his pay grade is automatically upgraded to like E3 or E4.

[Edited on August 2, 2010 at 11:46 PM. Reason : can't remember]

[Edited on August 2, 2010 at 11:52 PM. Reason : l]

8/2/2010 11:45:30 PM

no offense to the enlisted guys out there, but anyone who enlists after getting a college degree is a sucker. but you're taking a massive pay cut and subjecting yourself to the possibility of living on a ship/in barracks for a few years before you get the right to live on your own.

like kdogg said, enlisted recruiters will sell you a shit sandwich of a story to meet their quota. you should be looking at OCS only.

but from the experience of everyone i went to the academy with, it is much easier to get PAO out of TBS in the Marines than in the Navy. you'd most likely have to go SWO then lateral transfer...at a minimum you're looking at 2 years from when you get commissioned most likely before that comes up.

and like wolface said - don't do it for just a change of pace job. you have to want to do it for the right reasons...to serve your country. because the people who come in just to get a GI bill or for a change of pace almost always end up regretting it.

but that's just my opinion based on my own service. i went to college specifically to become and officer and serve, so my views are certainly different

[Edited on August 3, 2010 at 12:51 AM. Reason : .]

8/3/2010 12:47:51 AM

I don't know much about the military and can't pretend to understand all the alphabet soup going down in this thread, but I would just caution to think long and hard before getting on board the linguist train. Keep in mind that a recruiter's job is exactly that, to get you to sign up to whatever gets you working as quickly as possible and to fit you to what the armed forces needs. The armed forces' task is to create soldiers, so they have no problem molding people to what's needed; there's consideration to whether they think you'll be capable of fulfilling a job, but they're more concerned with matching you to the job than matching the job to you. All that is to say, I would be wary of getting talked into linguist school if that's something you hadn't thought about before the conversation; your initial impression of how fascinating it would be has probably been colored somewhat by the recruiting talk.

(Military folks, please correct me if any of the above is out of line. My impressions are colored by generally being a skeptic and working regularly around a lot of military people, but I haven't been there myself.)

8/3/2010 1:32:13 AM

Welcome to the worst decision of your life.

8/3/2010 1:32:44 AM

Definitely talk to an officer recruiter. As others have said, an enlisted recruiter will always try to get you to enlist. They will always offer a way to enlist to get some "experience" and say you can apply after a certain amount of time. They don't ever tell you that most applicants don't get selected for officer.
Way back when I was graduating high school, I knew I was going to ROTC since it's the way I wanted to go and I had a full scholarship but every recruiter that talked to me still tried to get me to enlist to get experience and apply for OCS/OTS later.

8/3/2010 1:49:09 AM

my background:
enlisted in '96.
picked up for NROTC in '99.
commissioned in '03.
getting out in '11.

8/3/2010 3:22:35 AM

Quote :

"Keep in mind that a recruiter's job is exactly that, to get you to sign up to whatever gets you working as quickly as possible and to fit you to what the armed forces needs. The armed forces' task is to create soldiers, so they have no problem molding people to what's needed; there's consideration to whether they think you'll be capable of fulfilling a job, but they're more concerned with matching you to the job than matching the job to you"

Yeah a good friend of mine enlisted in the air force a few years back before going to college. Somehow the recruiter talked him into going the route of a MP. He always regretted that decision and always has a bad taste in his mouth from his 4 years in the air force after playing their safety patrol officer.

8/3/2010 7:27:34 AM

maybe I missed something, but why would you go enlisted when:

1.) you have a 4 year degree
2.) you want to be an officer


just go to OCS and be done with it. In fact, join the Air Force, and have the shortest/easiest OCS and then enjoy the country club atmosphere. this talk of enlisting and going PAO is just nonsense.

8/3/2010 8:14:02 AM

^ well to answer that question... boards aren't til April and even then, the air force only accepts 10% or so of the candidates that apply.

so even after taking the test, doing well on the test, there's a chance that i could still not get accepted to their program.

8/3/2010 8:17:47 AM

If commissioning is your dream, don't take no for answer. AF and Navy have fine PAO programs as does the Marine Corps. The Army does also, but after 4 years, I don't really recommend the Army to folks that don't want combat jobs.

Additionally you should check out Reserve jobs, and lateral transfer after that. Do your research however, and get exactly what you want. Recruiters lie, but recruiters don't negotiate your contract. You do that yourself with a civilian contract manager, the recruiter will not even be there. Know what you want, and ask for it, if they say no, walk. If this is a real deal dream, don't be afraid to visit other recruiting stations outside of Wake County, you'll eventually be right where you want.

8/3/2010 10:32:32 AM

<--- was fucked over by an enlisted recruiter.

8/3/2010 10:56:36 AM

Quote :

"The Army does also, but after 4 years, I don't really recommend the Army to folks that don't want combat jobs. "

Would this not be even more true about joining the marines.

8/4/2010 7:29:01 AM

not necessarily

8/4/2010 8:28:15 AM

Also be aware that if you enlist most of your peers will be 18-19 and have never left home before. Like others have said there are some who have degrees, but that's not the majority. Being older than everyone can be great because you can act as a mentor. But it can also go the other way - I had a 26 year old student who was constantly frustrated by the antics of the less mature classmates.

8/4/2010 8:52:02 AM

Quote :

"my background: enlisted in '96. picked up for NROTC in '99. commissioned in '03. getting out in '11."

What happened that made you get out 5 years before your 20?

8/4/2010 9:16:21 AM

Quote :

"Also be aware that if you enlist most of your peers will be 18-19 and have never left home before. Like others have said there are some who have degrees, but that's not the majority. Being older than everyone can be great because you can act as a mentor. But it can also go the other way - I had a 26 year old student who was constantly frustrated by the antics of the less mature classmates."

Yea I completely understand that. JCASHFAN went into aviation at 29, and a lot of the guys that he was in class with were in their early 20s - but there were definitely some older guys there too.

I feel like if I were to go the path of being a linguist there would be a range of people in school - since everybody using San Diego for their training. Intel or PA would likely be a different story.

8/4/2010 9:57:11 AM

welp here goes nothing... i'm starting the paperwork and the ball rolling on commissioning into the Navy. the recruiter didn't try to push me one way or the other (other than to say i'm overqualified for enlisting) but it means i can't go linguist. which, while the idea sounded exciting and new - i don't think i would've excelled at it.

now limiting my choices down to intel and PAO - we shall see!

8/5/2010 3:51:27 PM

Quote :

"What happened that made you get out 5 years before your 20?"

I like my family more than I like my job.

8/6/2010 4:10:30 AM

I would be really really careful trying to plug yourself into a specific job in ANY service. If you go Navy, I'm not sure if you'll go Unrestricted Line or Restricted Line, to go PAO. Also, if you DON'T get PAO I guarantee that you'll get something you hate. (SWO if you go URL, or maybe Supply if you don't) I have no idea how that stuff works in the AF or the Army, but I tell everyone to not join the military if you're trying to go something too specific. (IE: I want to fly F/A-18s rather than, I want to fly) They're going to put you where they need you, and odds are they don't need someone in a super specific billet; and by then it'll be too late!

8/7/2010 3:34:03 AM

<--- was fucked over by an enlisted recruiter.

8/7/2010 12:09:24 PM

Quote :

" was going to pick between the Air Force and the Navy because both of them offer PAO tracks and I could commission"

All branches have public affairs jobs, for both enlisted and officers. You really need to look at each individual branch and figure out which one does the things you wanna do.

Quote :

"He recommended enlisting and possibly taking the the DLAB to see if I could qualify for linguist school. Once I get through linguist school, bump up from an E1 to an E4 then spend the next few months building my packet and then submitting it to become an officer (because I'd be eligible after a year and a half). I hadn't thought about becoming a linguist - but now that I think about it - it'd be fascinating and would set me up really well if I decide to get out after a 3 year commitment. "

Of course he did. He's a recruiter; they promise you everything under the sun. Unless you get a guaranteed OCS and/or PAO option on your enlistment contract, you will get fucked over. Period, end of story. Get it in writing, and walk away if they won't give it to you. Also keep in mind that if you enlist and go to A school for PAO, and then go to OCS you could end up in a completely different job.

Quote :

" would look at how much an E1 and E4 makes before you make this decision. Pay tables are available online, you'll get base pay plus a housing allowance and maybe a bonus or 2. Remember you might not get picked up officer and will have to fulfill your enlisted commitment."

E1-E4 pay sucks. Again, get the OCS option in writing. Keep in mid its getting harder to get into OCS across the board nowadays - we've got officers pouring out of our ears.

Quote :

"On the plus side, if you go linguist to Officer you will be on the O1E scale which is very nice. "

Incorrect. You will only get O1E pay if you have 4 years and 1 day of service or more. You will, however, get paid based on your time in service. Which, if you have 2-3 years in, whoopde doo! You get a far bigger chunk of money simply from going to O1 to O2 at 1.5 years time in service.

Quote :

"Linguists make good money but DLI the language school is very labor intensive, depending on your language you can be there for up to 18 months, 8 hour days, 5 days a week. Are you prepared for that? It becomes very tedious. Just weigh your options."

You also don't get to choose your language. Sure, you fill out a dream sheet, and you may get what you asked for, but it's all needs of the service. Language training isn't also tedious, it's hard. Especially now that they've screwed it up with DLPT5, which from what I hear is a nightmare.



Yeah yeah, I know LunaK already has 'the ball rolling,' but still, some more .02 cents.

8/8/2010 9:03:49 PM

Quote :

"You also don't get to choose your language. Sure, you fill out a dream sheet, and you may get what you asked for, but it's all needs of the service. Language training isn't also tedious, it's hard. Especially now that they've screwed it up with DLPT5, which from what I hear is a nightmare."

It actually gets easier, the further in, after you get past grammar structure and whatnot. I'm a 1+/1+ in MSA.

8/8/2010 9:23:24 PM

Quote :

"What happened that made you get out 5 years before your 20?"

Update: I'm a lifer. Leaving COMSUBPAC for SOAC December/January. Will be a Department Head on a submarine by July.

8/27/2010 3:40:42 AM