Today the story begins. Today I start reading it again...after I pick up a new copy to replace my shredded one.

9/2/2010 11:02:43 AM

why do people hate on Ayn Rand and her books?

9/2/2010 11:03:49 AM

Have you ever read one?

9/2/2010 11:05:55 AM

fountainhead and atlas shrugged....i still dont get it

9/2/2010 11:07:00 AM

9/2/2010 11:09:56 AM

Quote :

"why do people hate on Ayn Rand and her books?"

Because they view Rand's philosophy of Objectivism as elitist, narcissistic, and self-serving. Add to that the books are definitely a little bit of a difficult read, especially the mile-long dialog between Dagny Taggart and John Gault in Atlas Shrugged, and the settings and subject material are somewhat vague, maybe too idealistic. The books are definitely a thinly veiled proponent of Objectivism.

9/2/2010 11:18:31 AM

The Fountainhead was enjoyable enough in high school. I was several hundred pages into Atlas Shrugged back in college, and then John Galt started in on his filibuster. I pretty much decided then and there that it wasn't worth my time. I hear Anthem decently short and to the point though.

9/2/2010 11:21:10 AM

i've only read anthem

it was boring as balls...i started the fountainhead and quickly decided i had better things to do and read

9/2/2010 11:37:19 AM

Ayn Rand was the Ann Coulter of her day.

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 11:38 AM. Reason : and an illegal immigrant to boot, IIRC.]

9/2/2010 11:38:27 AM

one day I want to read this book one day.

9/2/2010 11:43:09 AM

the Fountainhead has an interesting rape scene in it. and of course the bitch liked it so much she came back for seconds.

9/2/2010 12:11:47 PM

Ayn Rand is good stuff.

Even if you don't agree with what she is saying you should understand her arguments and philosophy.

9/2/2010 12:19:46 PM

Quote :

"why do people hate on Ayn Rand and her books?"

The Fountainhead was a good book, although I could never get through Atlas Shrugged

I guess part of the reason I don't like Ayn Rand is as a reaction to all the people who worship her...she's written a good novel or two, but her work is objectionable in many ways, and she really doesn't deserve to mentioned in the same breath as people like Hemingway, Tolkien, etc.

also, based on the stories of her personal life, I think she's a scumbag...when she wanted to cheat on her husband, she set about convincing him, logically, that this should be permitted.

also, "Howard Roark laughed." is the weakest first sentence I've ever read in any book

9/2/2010 12:20:47 PM

oh, i disagree wholeheartedly that wallowing in capitalism is the cornerstone of a free society. The immense manipulation and pressure we feel on a daily basis to BUY, BUY, BUY doesn't help me feel in control of my destiny, personally.

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 12:23 PM. Reason : ^ oh, ayn rand invented open relationships now? lord help us]

9/2/2010 12:22:12 PM

glenn beck loves this book, therefore I do not

9/2/2010 12:23:53 PM

This is why I turned away from Objectivism in high school: http://www.2think.org/02_2_she.shtml

Similar reasoning explained why I turned away from the IU College Libertarians after one meeting (the coordinator had nothing to say where the Libertarian Party Platform was silent).

9/2/2010 12:23:53 PM

Quote :

"the philosophical movement became a cult, they came to believe that (pp. 255-256): Ayn Rand is the greatest human being who has ever lived. Atlas Shrugged is the greatest human achievement in the history of the world. Ayn Rand, by virtue of her philosophical genius, is the supreme arbiter in any issue pertaining to what is rational, moral, or appropriate to man's life on earth. Once one is acquainted with Ayn Rand and/or her work, the measure of one's virtue is intrinsically tied to the position one takes regarding her and/or it. No one can be a good Objectivist who does not admire what Ayn Rand admires and condemn what Ayn Rand condemns. No one can be a fully consistent individualist who disagrees with Ayn Rand on any fundamental issue. Since Ayn Rand has designated Nathaniel Branden as her "intellectual heir," and has repeatedly proclaimed him to be an ideal exponent of her philosophy, he is to be accorded only marginally less reverence than Ayn Rand herself. But it is best not to say most of these things explicitly (excepting, perhaps, the first two items). One must always maintain that one arrives at one's beliefs solely by reason."

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 12:37 PM. Reason : LOL]

9/2/2010 12:36:22 PM

ZZZZZzzzzzzz

9/2/2010 12:42:09 PM

Judge, and prepare to be judged.

9/2/2010 12:45:39 PM

Quote :

"why do people hate on Ayn Rand and her books?"

The main problem I have with the book has nothing to do with the philosophy (there are certain things I agree with). But the thing is, whether you agree or disagree with the philosophy presented, it is just a completely atrocious book from a literature/fiction standpoint. Monotonous, boring, repetitive, tedious, etc. It reads like a high school freshman's literary anthology entry.

I guess if you prescribe very exactly with her ideals I could understand enjoying the book to some degree from a philosophical standpoint.

Beyond that, I can't fault anyone for liking the book because everyone has different tastes. However, Atlas Shrugged was one of the most painfully pedestrian books I have ever read.

9/2/2010 1:06:43 PM

she hated kant

9/2/2010 1:30:20 PM

9/2/2010 1:33:18 PM

Quote :

"why do people hate on Ayn Rand and her books?"

because (1) they suck hard (2) they give callous, amoral suburbanites comfort and flimsy justification for their lack of basic humanity

9/2/2010 1:34:35 PM

mcfluffle said:

Quote :

"she hated kant"

she was a kant

9/2/2010 1:37:17 PM

Seriously if you want to read a book about a bunch of statues and wooden figurines, Rand's for you

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 1:38 PM. Reason : .]

9/2/2010 1:38:05 PM

Everybody's entitled to their opinion, and so far, they're mostly rabid (either pro or con).

I have never seen so many people use so many passionate words to express their opinions on Rand and her books. I'd say she scored a couple of big points just from eliciting these kinds of responses.

9/2/2010 1:45:18 PM

Quote :

" I have never seen so many people use so many passionate words to express their opinions on Rand and her books. I'd say she scored a couple of big points just from eliciting these kinds of responses."

She scored points in the same sense "Piss Christ" scored points.

9/2/2010 1:48:38 PM

I can definitely understand your perspective there.

9/2/2010 1:51:11 PM

Selfishness has seriously fucked the world up, so expect a lifetime's worth of defense of it to draw a lifetime's worth of disgust

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 1:53 PM. Reason : .]

9/2/2010 1:52:41 PM

Judging from what I see it looks like Nietzsche.





Ubermansch much?

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 2:11 PM. Reason : damn long image title]

9/2/2010 2:10:57 PM

she had no concept of moderation, the crazy bitch

9/2/2010 2:20:40 PM

Quote :

"Judging from what I see it looks like Nietzsche."

She lifts various elements directly from Nietzsche, but she's objectivist rather than perspectivist so she's in many ways a polar opposite.

Anything positive you can get from Rand you can get from reading Nietzsche instead, who is infinitely more smart, educated, insightful, and fun to read. Dude's a raving lunatic and quite entertaining

9/2/2010 2:22:31 PM

9/2/2010 2:22:46 PM

Quote :

" 1. Metaphysics: Objective Reality 2. Epistemology: Reason 3. Ethics: Self-interest 4. Politics: Capitalism "

9/2/2010 2:27:37 PM

9/2/2010 2:56:52 PM

Quote :

"Selfishness has seriously fucked the world up."

I disagree.

9/2/2010 3:16:04 PM

Ayn Rand didn't write characters so much as ideological mouthpieces.

9/2/2010 3:22:29 PM

Quote :

"I disagree."

hmm

9/2/2010 3:23:05 PM

^^ which is why, if you don't prescribe to the same ideals as her, the book completely fails as it is completely unenjoyable as a piece of fiction.

9/2/2010 4:13:24 PM

I predict zxappeal will make a thread about another vastly overrated 20th century author like George Orwell in the near future.

9/2/2010 4:25:49 PM

I agree with 90% of the criticisms of Rand

that said, The Fountainhead is one of my favorite books ever.

9/2/2010 4:30:14 PM

Even if you don't agree with what she's saying, it's still a cool story.

And yeah it's not completely realistic, but neither are a bunch of other good books.

9/2/2010 6:33:03 PM

The fun thing is arguing with people who carry the banner of objectivism, but then wanna talk about how they're good christians.



THAT's the fun thing.

9/2/2010 6:38:21 PM

Quote :

"Even if you don't agree with what she is saying you should understand her arguments and philosophy."

why on earth should anyone do that?

she has zero credibility as a philosopher, the American Philosophical Society doesn't recognize any of her writings to be important enough to categorize, and from a purely literary perspective her books are monotonous and monochromatic.

the only thing she did well (and by "well", i mean "really well") was to generate fever-pitched enthusiasm from her cult full of late-teens/early-twenties neo-bohemians, suburban libertarians and struggling entrepreneurs -- the majority of whom all have less than 2 years of college.




[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 7:29 PM. Reason : ]

9/2/2010 7:27:16 PM

I am surprised they did not understand the virtue of selfishness

is the APA full of goddam pinkos

9/2/2010 11:25:33 PM

lol ya think?

9/2/2010 11:39:12 PM

understanding the value of selfishness is one thing, sure

but not understanding that you've got to hide that shit under a veneer of caring makes you a total fucking cunt bag - like Ayn Rand

9/2/2010 11:39:47 PM

I have embraced every reason to hate Ayn Rand, it's not really a point of contention in my mind. From the standpoint of an English major, there's no valid reason for me to think anything of her or her works. There's a pretty big movement within English education to get rid of her books from public school systems. Anthem and The Fountainhead are taught a lot as "advanced fiction" focusing on motifs that aren't really an integral part of the book, and have become a fixation as result of her canvasing public school boards.



Also, LOL@ the Bioshock. Love how it's used in Bioshock, it's just annoying that a lot of people think the developers used Rand so heavily because they liked her--when it's been stated (and is pretty obvious if you played the game) that they were mocking her.

9/2/2010 11:45:52 PM

you don't have to hide selfishness from anyone, unless you're a hipster cuntface that wants to prove to everyone how much of a leet pinko commie you are.

9/2/2010 11:58:29 PM

I'll admit...I almost entered one of the Ayn Rand essay contests, the one related to Anthem; I think it was something about how Satan ("the serpent") was actually right in Genesis 3:4-5 http://j.mp/9qj0sz

I wasn't confident enough in my writing ability way back in 2000 to actually submit the essay and get a chance at $2000, and when I looked up some winning essays about her novels I wondered why the writers so easily figured out they needed to slam Communism...then I found my political awakening a couple years later, identified as a libertarian, and understood
(5 years and a slew of exceptions to libertarianism later, I would finally eschew the label and instead use "liberal")

9/3/2010 12:01:59 AM