than a lot of religious people

and I'm an atheist?

9/4/2010 11:15:09 AM

I think the better question is "Why does this surprise you?"

9/4/2010 11:17:05 AM

9/4/2010 11:17:41 AM

You are more intellectual and question things more. That is a beautiful thing that a lot of religious people don't do. I also think people that are considered religious are less about heart and more about flapping their jaws.

9/4/2010 11:19:05 AM

I guess I did a bit of research before I rejected religion

but even as a devout Catholic we were forced to study the world religions a bit just so we would know that we were right

I guess not everybody cares to know about the competing franchises

9/4/2010 11:21:09 AM

I am a Christian that questions every damn thing and i study other religions too. Atheist can be some of my favorite people to talk too if they are not combative and demeaning. I love intelligent conversation for sure.

9/4/2010 11:23:15 AM

I loved intelligently designed conversation.

9/4/2010 11:27:23 AM

I'm a fan of Zoroastrianism and Sikhism

those are pretty good religions, I think

9/4/2010 11:28:37 AM

it doesn't surprise me that you know a lot of idiots - amazingly enough there are intelligent people on all sides

9/4/2010 11:29:07 AM

I didn't speak in any absolutes here

I said "a lot of" not "all"

and I even said that I "seem to know more"

why you got your panties in a bundle?

9/4/2010 11:32:11 AM

I'm just learning about Sikhs and isn't Zoroastrianism more poetic/strict?

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 11:35 AM. Reason : Z is an even more mystic form of Christianity? Can't rem. Religions of the silkroad ftw]

9/4/2010 11:33:12 AM

I'm partial to Baha'i.

9/4/2010 11:36:19 AM

buddhism aight

9/4/2010 11:43:10 AM

^^^ Zoroastrianism has its rules like everything else but my experiences with it have shown it to be a pretty flexible and modern religion, even though it is diminishing significantly

I had the good fortune of attending a half Catholic (rogue, of course) and half Zoroastrian (Parsi) wedding in the DC area

9/4/2010 11:48:11 AM

it's worth pointing out i got very little beef with buddhism

i'm not entirely down with eliminating all desire but they got the right idea. very few people have come up with useful advice for eliminating suffering except those dewds

9/4/2010 11:50:53 AM

great argument if Buddhism is even a religion

9/4/2010 11:51:47 AM

it's godless but may as well call it a religion

at least when people practice various rituals

9/4/2010 11:53:22 AM

I've done some reading about Islam too

claims that Obama is a Muslim are laughable
if he is, he's like the worst Muslim ever

9/4/2010 11:54:16 AM

Christianity troubles me

I wish it focused more on Christ's life and less on his death

Christians worship a torture implement

9/4/2010 11:55:54 AM

I TOTALLY AGREE!! Jesus's ministry was totally about helping the less fortunate and I would have to say Christians for the most part are the most self-centered people alive. The death is an amazing show of God's power but that is not the fullness of what Jesus was doing, imo.

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 11:59 AM. Reason : I want to tell people about Jesus but I am not on this earth to convert people. FREE WILL FTMFW!]

9/4/2010 11:58:55 AM

I don't believe in free will. Haven't in almost ten years, but only recently have I really internalized that belief.

If any of this religion shit is true I hope the roulette stops on my number

9/4/2010 12:02:34 PM

I believe in free will...we can do whatever we want with our lives

however, I'm also a fatalist...what we want is predetermined

I'm not sure whether I buy this myself...but sometimes I think I do

9/4/2010 12:38:12 PM

Quote :

"I am a Christian"

Quote :

"I love intelligent conversation for sure."

DOES NOT COMPUTE.






I had to go for the easy troll.

9/4/2010 1:47:44 PM

Quote :

"Jesus's ministry was totally about helping the less fortunate "

Why do people need Jesus' ministry to tell them about being a good person?

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

9/4/2010 3:34:19 PM

I thought Jesus's ministry was about getting people drunk by pulling that whole water---> wine deal.

9/4/2010 3:38:37 PM

^

9/4/2010 3:40:28 PM

Quote :

"Why do people need Jesus' ministry to tell them about being a good person?"

I didn't mention that. Why don't you enlighten us with your wisdom, GeniuSxBoy?

9/4/2010 6:00:43 PM

it's the why behind the what that's important, not the what by itself. what we do and say is merely a reflection of what we believe. if there is one single answer, one absolute truth (which I believe) it doesn't matter how much you know or know about other religions that's going to matter in the end. unfortunately people think that because they know more about 'something' that they are indeed right. faith doesn't work like that. most people are self-serving and will seek out questions & answers that support what they 'want' to believe is true or rather to justify their wrongful actions. if you know the truth, you'll quickly realize it's not about how much you know. important to question your faith and know the most you can about it, but at least in terms of Christianity, you will never know it all.

i find it funny some intellectuals try to use reason and logic or think they have to have ALL the answers to form a belief, when in fact if you have all the answers, it would become fact, not a belief or faith anymore. at some point you have to come to a decision, either believe or don't believe based on what you think you know. to think you can solve the 'faith' and 'God' issue by using our simple human minds to factually PROVE it is simply foolish and entirely vain. all that to say, i do appreciate intellectual conversations about faith, so long as both parties have an interest at finding the truth and simply not trying to be superior to the other on how much they think they know.

i understand why people don't have any faith -- lost interest, got burned in the past, find the religious either hypocritical or think they are simply uneducated, think they don't need faith, think it's legalistic, false hope, don't feel loved, don't understand why certain things happen, etc. etc... i've heard it all. but in some ways i feel sorry for those who don't have faith as i would ask myself what's the meaning of my life, if there's indeed no higher purpose? well you'd have a pretty meaningless life.

maybe that's too heavy for Chit Chat

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 6:33 PM. Reason : .]

9/4/2010 6:16:15 PM

Quote :

"i've heard it all. but in some ways i feel sorry for those who don't have faith as i would ask myself what's the meaning of my life, if there's indeed no higher purpose?"

Everybody without faith asks themselves this question. Many do it frequently. I know I do. It's just part of taking responsibility for your own life. Yes it's difficult, uncomfortable, and strange at times. But it's also empowering and liberating.

Quote :

"well you'd have a pretty meaningless life."

Speak for yourself.

9/4/2010 7:00:34 PM

of course it's empowering & liberating because it means you can do whatever please, which i suppose is the main reason why so many people turn their back on religion, it's human nature.

i was speaking for myself, being completely humble and honest, if there's no higher calling in my life i'd be pretty damn lost just stuck in this world seeking out my own desires, trying to cement my place in the history books so i wouldn't be lost and forgotten in the crowd. i mean i guess i'd just try to enjoy it while i could, but i'd have a heavy heart sitting on my death bed.

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 7:08 PM. Reason : .]

9/4/2010 7:07:26 PM

Bokononism ftw

9/4/2010 7:09:50 PM

what ^^ said

9/4/2010 9:53:35 PM

Quote :

"i'd be pretty damn lost just stuck in this world seeking out my own desires, trying to cement my place in the history books so i wouldn't be lost and forgotten in the crowd."

Eh, for me at least, accepting the lack of a "higher calling" came with accepting the insignificance of any one individual, specifically myself. It's not about promoting oneself to history so much as it is about doing whatever possible, however insignificant that part may be, to promote humanity in general, and for me the most worthwhile and concrete method of doing that is to try to broaden the scope of human understanding of ourselves and the world.

That's not to say that there's not also room to enjoy yourself and do what you please.... but that part of the whole outlook is a lot harder to articulate in any concise way. And, personally speaking, it's a lot easier to accept your own mistakes and missteps without god's cosmic scoreboard looming over you (though that's something of an oversimplification).

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 10:12 PM. Reason : .]

9/4/2010 10:11:01 PM

Quote :

"i understand why people don't have any faith -- lost interest, got burned in the past, find the religious either hypocritical or think they are simply uneducated, think they don't need faith, think it's legalistic, false hope, don't feel loved, don't understand why certain things happen, etc. etc... i've heard it all. but in some ways i feel sorry for those who don't have faith as i would ask myself what's the meaning of my life, if there's indeed no higher purpose? well you'd have a pretty meaningless life."

Must life have a meaning? What is the purpose of a rock? Why is simple existence not enough? If anything, the blind faith in another, more meaningful life destroys the meaningfulness of this life. If, as all evidence suggests, this is our only extremely brief moment of existence, wouldn't enjoying every second be meaning enough? And wouldn't the understanding that each of us are on the same outlandishly short trip be enough to justify respect for everyone else's life? There, meaning without faith. Be excellent to each other and party on dudes.

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 10:12 PM. Reason : must]

9/4/2010 10:11:40 PM

I don't understand the OP.

Why would a "religious person" know more about religion as you have described it, as a knowledge of collective religious cultures? If anything, a person devout in one religion should be default know less than an uncommitted person. They have less reasons to research and learn about other religions--there's no inherent reason to think by engaging in a religion that other religions are of any interest to you.

It does seem like a very atheist supposition though, that is true.

9/4/2010 10:17:17 PM

^I think he means that, even within Christianity (or hypothetically, some other religion), he often knows more about the doctrine than many supposed believers... which isn't unusual. I'm always surprised (or at least i used to be surprised) by just how little some Christians remember/comprehend/pay attention to the material when being taught about their own religion.

It's shameful really... if you're going to claim belief in something, you should at least care about it.

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 10:26 PM. Reason : .]

9/4/2010 10:21:47 PM

Why is it that I seem to know more about gravity

than a lot of people who trip over their own clumsy asses all the time

9/4/2010 10:25:09 PM

fucking gravity

how does that shit work

9/4/2010 10:26:08 PM

^You can't even hold it. It's just there in the air.

9/4/2010 10:27:20 PM

^^^^Yea, but it's kind of an open joke about Catholics and not reading the Bible by tradition, et cetera insert other joke. I tend to think those "observations" are more "so I understand to be the case" suppositions rather than actual first-hand experience.

Knowing more about the Bible is one thing, but some elements of biblical history and the evolution of Christian theology are only going to be conveyed through educational services, so if their Sunday School or whatever never covered it (and I don't remember many lessons on historical perspective) then I still don't see why OP's observation is particularly shocking. I don't necessarily think it equates to ignorance (more xo than religion normally does that is).

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 10:29 PM. Reason : not you, you!]

9/4/2010 10:28:53 PM

^^^You can't even hold it. It's just there in the air.

9/4/2010 10:29:06 PM

Quote :

"It's shameful really... if you're going to claim belief in something, you should at least care about it. "

or just know what the fuck you're talking about. either one would be a step forward, i feel like. care/know. i guess these aren't important things when blindly adhering to some dogma.

9/5/2010 3:01:34 AM

There should be no posts longer than a line or two

9/5/2010 3:22:16 AM

sometimes dumb people or people with no will power need some sort of religion to lead them to become functional/contributing members of society.

some people use it as a means to blend in/ gain status... whether it be professionally or socially.

some people need it to justify their existence.

9/5/2010 3:22:43 AM

^^^
meh, I see nothing wrong with a simple creed and simple blind faith, as long as you're tolerant...however, I agree that you sure as hell should care about it

^
and some people actually feel, in their hearts/souls, that some particular religion is correct, and therefore adopt it (it's not all social pressure/weak-willedness/desire for meaning in life)

9/5/2010 4:11:20 AM

if you believe in something that you think is the absolute truth, that there can only be one God and that there's only one right/wrong, i don't see how tolerance works in that scenario. it's like sure i know what you're doing is wrong and i'm just going to ignore it. then the person blames them for hypocrisy, it's a double standard, either you're tolerant (hypocrite) or you're a fanatic that no one will listen to.... and a LOT of people confuse tolerance with empathy. i believe one can be empathetic, loving, sympathetic and not be tolerant.

^^the first two you'll have to give examples of, because i hear those first two excuses from atheists & agnostics and i think they're self-justifying why they don't believe in religion.... i've never seen anyone that would fit those descriptions..... i think it's MORE popular to NOT believe in something than it is to have a religion. take TWW for example. the last one i can see people needing it for justifying their existence, but i don't think it's a majority of people -- while it DOES justify their existence, i would say they don't NEED it to justify them.... their existence is justified no matter what.

damn i went over one/two lines again.

[Edited on September 5, 2010 at 12:30 PM. Reason : ,]

9/5/2010 12:29:06 PM

Quote :

"I don't believe in free will."

In what way do you not believe in free will?

9/5/2010 12:37:00 PM

in the original post I meant that I often know more about the doctrine of claimed adherents

AND I also know more about the manifold religious traditions of the world


what I don't get is why an adherent of one religion has LESS incentive to learn more about religions - how can s/he be sure that his/hers is the one true faith without investigating?

that seems intellectually lazy and perhaps even dangerous
one should always strive to be an informed consumer

9/5/2010 12:38:15 PM

i believe in Joe Pesci

9/5/2010 12:39:25 PM

Quote :

"i was speaking for myself, being completely humble and honest, if there's no higher calling in my life i'd be pretty damn lost just stuck in this world seeking out my own desires, trying to cement my place in the history books so i wouldn't be lost and forgotten in the crowd. i mean i guess i'd just try to enjoy it while i could, but i'd have a heavy heart sitting on my death bed. "

IOW it’s a self-hypnosis mechanism to keep you from killing yourself?

9/5/2010 12:40:36 PM