Long story short, I get pulled over in Goldsboro, and instead of making up some bullshit excuse or pulling the military card, I took it like a man. Trooper gave me 70 in a 55, 166 dollars.

This is my first ticket, so I'm not really sure what's the best option. I figured someone here might have some experience they can share with me. Should I even bother going to court for this? If so, should I get a lawyer or can I just show up? One last little thing to throw a wrench in the works - I'm expecting my orders soon, and I'm fairly certain the court date is after my reporting-in date. Soo...is there anything I do about that, should it happen?

9/4/2010 1:50:33 PM

message_topic.aspx?topic=389230&page=11

9/4/2010 1:52:43 PM

Yeah I would have at least tried the military card or something. Dumbass thing was not trying to get out of it.

9/4/2010 1:58:07 PM

Thanks for the thread. As for trying to get out of it - integrity, man. How am I supposed to discipline my troopies and hold them accountable if I use my own position to get out of things?

9/4/2010 2:06:06 PM

i got respect for ya. integrity is a lost character trait these days.

9/4/2010 2:33:31 PM

Just hire a lawyer....you should be able to get one for like 100 bucks plus court costs and then you don't have to worry about it.

9/4/2010 2:39:13 PM

I got pulled in Goldsboro doing 93 in a 55 and got a warning ticket, looks like you got the wrong cop haha

9/4/2010 2:53:17 PM

I would plan to show up in court yourself, ask the ADA to reduce to 9 over, pay the fine and be on your way.

If your orders do in fact come down with a report date before the court date, just call up a lawyer and get them to represent you. At that point you'll have enough on your plate that it will be worth the extra $100 not to have to worry about the ticket.

9/4/2010 3:28:14 PM

if it's your first time offense do this:

Quote :

"I would plan to show up in court yourself, ask the ADA to reduce to 9 over (and tell them it's your first ticket), pay the fine and be on your way."

9/4/2010 4:01:15 PM

Lawyer: costs more, they could potentially get it dropped altogether, they will at least have it reduced to 9 over, they go on your behalf so you don't have to spend your time dealing with it.

no lawyer: costs less, but the best you'll get is 9 over and you'll have to travel to goldsboro or wherever their courthouse is (assuming you don't live there) and spend time in court.


At 9 over, it's just a money thing. It won't really negatively effect you, your license, or your insurance. So, for me, it would come down to whether I could afford the extra cash for the lawyer and how easily I could make it to court on the court date.


Definitely don't just mail it in and pay it. At least go get it reduced.

9/4/2010 5:20:34 PM

-Get your spedometer calibrated... if the mph is off, you can get it reduced to faulty equipment which only carries 1 point on your record, and you only have to pay court costs.
Present this to the judge.

-Present your report cards to the judge and show them you are in good academic standing.

-Admit that you know better than to speed and will be doubly sure to maintain proper speed next time and it will never happen again.

-Tell the judge the real reason you were speeding.
Examples: "I felt like I was going with the flow of traffic", "I had to make an emergency pass of a vehicle because the lane was ending", "I had to make an emergency pass of a vehicle because you thought debris was in the road ahead."

9/4/2010 5:32:39 PM

No, no, no. This isn't about justifying it. You probably won't even have a chance to argue your case to any significant degree if you do go to court. This is about revenue generation, first and foremost.

Call a lawyer or three. They generally don't like to make promises, but you can kind of read between the lines--something like a 70/55 is about as everyday, mundane, and formulaic as it gets. There will be a pretty standard way of dealing with you if you show up to court yourself, and a standard response if you send a lawyer (which may or may not be different, and if you call a few lawyers, you can probably figure that out). Obviously they hope that you'll just mail them a check, with the implied guilty plea that goes with it. Whatever you do, don't do that.

What's pretty standard in most counties is to reduce it to 9-over if you show up to court. You probably don't have to argue anything--the DA knows why you're there and what you want. He gives you 9-over not because of any compelling excuse you might have, but precisely because he's utterly uninterested in your excuse (however compelling). It's logistically impossible to dig into the details for every single case. Remember, this is about maximizing profit, and they make more money by getting the maximum number of dollars from you for the amount of effort that they expend.

Many places also will reduce it to a non-moving violation if you send a lawyer (improper equipment, seatbelt ticket, various city code violations, etc). Again, it may or may not make any difference whether or not your speedometer was actually off...and I've gotten speeding "reduced" to a seatbelt ticket even though I had my seatbelt on. See the common theme? It's all an exercise in how much money they can squeeze from you. When you show up with the lawyer, most jurisdictions don't have the time/resources to fight every single case of someone represented by a lawyer, and they know the lawyers will bog their system down (i.e., hurt their profits or even COST them money) by forcing trials if you don't just give them what they want for their clients...so the courts try to pocket a few bucks for court cost, or maybe even for some minor infraction that you'll be OK with paying for, because it's better than the alternative (for everyone concerned).


When it comes to traffic fines and enforcement, it's a fucked-up system, and not really like true criminal law enforcement. As far as I'm concerned, their job is raise revenue from my pockets. My job is to do anything I can to minimize that, and not feel bad about it.

Quote :

"-Get your spedometer calibrated... if the mph is off, you can get it reduced to faulty equipment"

Depends on what county. Wake County will reduce tickets, but they don't do improper equipment (even if your speedometer really is inaccurate). Montgomery County, AL pretty much doesn't reduce anything, period. Every other place I've been ticketed will reduce stuff and usually reduce it to a non-moving violation of some sort, barring any aggravating circumstances (some places have a code or symbol the cop can mark on your ticket if you're a real dick during the traffic stop, and then the DA won't cut any deals). Again, depends on the place--in many places, they'll give you improper equipment without you actually getting your speedometer checked.

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 7:27 PM. Reason : Most places don't give a shit about your speedometer...they are interested in you paying a few bucks]

Quote :

"At 9 over, it's just a money thing. It won't really negatively effect you, your license, or your insurance."

That's not quite accurate. 9-over tickets definitely still cost you insurance points, at least in NC. I'm assuming that they cost you license points, too (maybe depends on the state?) The thing is that 9-over tickets cost you only 2 insurance points, and in NC, your insurance company is not allowed to charge you higher rates for anything less than 3 points (total). So, if you have a clean record--no infractions, no at-fault wrecks--within the last 3 years, a 9-over ticket won't affect your insurance rates...unless you get another ticket within 3 years (even a 9-over ticket). Then you'll get charge the rate applicable for however total points you then have.


[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 7:29 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 7:34 PM. Reason : oh, and don't waste a PJC on something like this, either]

9/4/2010 7:22:40 PM

^ exactly. -- well, not "exactly" now that I've seen the edit.

1 insurance point for 10 over or less in NC as far as I know. However, if you don't have any other violations in the previous 3 years, which the OP does not, points are not assigned for <= 10 over. So for the OP, it's 0 insurance points.
http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_affairs/legal_services/legaldocs/Trafficpoints.htm

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_58/GS_58-36-75.html

Quote :

"(f) The subclassification plan shall provide that with respect to a conviction for a "violation of speeding 10 miles per hour or less over the speed limit" there shall be no premium surcharge nor any assessment of points unless there is a driving record consisting of a conviction or convictions for a moving traffic violation or violations, except for a prayer for judgment continued for any moving traffic violation, during the three years immediately preceding the date of application or the preparation of the renewal."

And here's the things with points, speeding in a 55 is like 3-points on your license. But speeding 10 over is only 1 point on your insurance. The license part - ehh, you don't want points on your license, but you have to get 12 points (license pts) in a 3-year period for them to suspend your license. As long as you're not a complete dumbass, that's probably not likely.

Insurance points on the other hand causes the cost of your insurance to go up. That's why 9 over is the magic number here. They're willing to reduce it to 9 over if you'll plead guilty. People do this because <= 9 over the speed limit means no increased insurance costs (in and of itself). You plead guilty, pay the one time fee, and bam you're done. They get their revenue, you only get hit once instead of repeatedly by your insurance provider.

But ^ is right. Points do add up. Which is just something that needs to be kept in mind.

Again, I'd get a lawyer because I don't want to spend my time (especially my vacation time) on this kind of thing. Especially if I don't live in the area. If I had the time, I'd say it's kinda here or there. The lawyer can potentially do more than you. But you shouldn't have a problem getting it reduced to 9, pleading guilty, paying the fine and court costs, and moving along with your life if you want to go that route. Just know that it could impact you negatively if you get violations at a later date.

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 7:57 PM. Reason : link]

9/4/2010 7:40:27 PM

Yeah, if you're not going to have to go greatly out of your way to attend court, and you're pretty sure you're unlikely to get more tickets within 3 years, going it alone isn't a terrible deal. On the other hand, getting a lawyer doesn't cost much more ($250 total is a fairly standard rate...you can probably shop around and get one for $220 or something if you want...and that includes fine, court costs, everything).

I know that there is a 0% chance of me not getting additional tickets, so I pretty much lawyer up every time.

Quote :

" 1 insurance point for 10 over or less in NC as far as I know. However, if you don't have any other violations in the previous 3 years, which the OP does not, points are not assigned for <= 10 over. So for the OP, it's 0 insurance points."

That webpage does a good job of explaining the nuances that most people don't understand.

However, he was in a 55 mph zone, not a <55 mph zone, so that makes it 2 points, not 1.

As far as it being zero points due to his clean record, unless the law has changed very recently, or I've misunderstood what my dad (who's an insurance agency manager...and I've probably been ticketed more than everyone else in this threat combined, haha. I don't even get my car insurance through my dad...we both view it as a conflict of interests for him) has explained to me a couple of times, you DO get those 2 insurance points, but for <3 cumulative points, the NC insurance commissioner does not allow the insurance companies (on NC policies) to charge you higher rates.

In practical terms, this is just an academic difference, UNLESS you get another ticket within 3 years. Per what the NCSU Legal Services website says, you wouldn't get charged for BOTH tickets if you got, say, two 9-over tickets within a 3-year period. That is incorrect, unless the law has recently changed. My money is on that website being incorrect on that particular matter.

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 8:55 PM. Reason : hmm, I see a date of 3-4-05...that's right after I left NC. maybe that law did change.]

[Edited on September 4, 2010 at 8:56 PM. Reason : never mind, looks like the law did change]

9/4/2010 8:53:13 PM

Lawyer

/thread

9/5/2010 12:03:35 AM

lawyer can get you a pjc for first time or off completely (true you could potentially do that yourself but........)

that will cost more than 166 dollars but you can just about guarantee no points unless theres other circumstances

9/5/2010 12:10:23 AM

NO, you do not want to waste a PJC on a little 15-over ticket.

9/5/2010 12:38:13 AM

well yes, I suppose you wouldn't want to waste it if you get tickets as often as TheDuke

but it's up to you if you go the PJC route

9/5/2010 1:02:38 AM

What else would you use a PJC for?

9/5/2010 1:17:31 AM

no, it's pointless, period, unless Wayne County is one of those extreme rarities that never reduces tickets (and those places are, indeed, extremely rare, because it tends to generate a logjam in the court system).

If he can even get it reduced to 9-over (not to mention if he can get it reduced to a non-moving violation), he AT BEST gains nothing with a PJC. Save it for when you might actually need it.

9/5/2010 1:18:34 AM

you don't need to waste your money on a lawyer if you want to do a PJC. Just show up at the court house and ask the DA for it.

9/5/2010 1:32:44 AM

i definitely wouldn't use a PJC on this. It's not only a waste, but it could hurt you in the long run.

He'd have to go 3yrs with no violations or this charge comes back as a guilty. 3yrs is the same number that insurance companies use for points.

If he gets it reduced he get's 0 points on insurance because he doesn't have anything in the previous 3 years. Even if it turns out I'm wrong about that and it's 1, that still doesn't effect the cost of his insurance. If he gets this reduced to 9 over, this in and of itself WILL NOT IMPACT HIS INSURANCE.


If goes the reduced speed route and gets pulled within 3 years, he gets more points. maybe that raises his insurance, maybe it doesn't. Of course, he could use a PJC at that point if he wanted.

If he doesn't get pulled in 3yrs, insurance essentially forgets about this. And if he got stopped for the same thing at the 3.5yr mark, it's essentially the same situation as now. Get it reduced, haven't had a violation in past 3yrs, so no insurance points and no premium increase.


If he uses PJC and doesn't get pulled. Great, no harm, no foul. It won't impact his insurance. Notice that the end result here is no different than having it reduced.

If he uses PJC and gets stopped, he gets charged with whatever that may be and takes a guilty on 15 over for this on top of that. Not 9 over, but 15 over. That in and of itself will cause his insurance to go up. And the other charge will go right on top of it.


The way I see it, there is no benefit in using a PJC here. However, it could make things worse later.


If I'm missing something, feel free to let me know. But using a PJC for this sounds dumb as hell to me. Get a lawyer, they'll probably tell you the same. And if they don't, you might want to get another lawyer's opinion.

9/5/2010 2:26:37 AM

Whoever suggested a lawyer for a speeding ticket is a complete moron who listens to bullshit on the TV.

The United States issues millions of tickets a year and it's only a crime because the law says so. Other than the laws saying so, speed doesn't hurt anyone and hardly means you're a bad driver. I've had 8 speeding tickets and 0 accidents in my lifetime, whereas I know girls (asian) who have been in 15 accidents and have zero speeding tickets.

The judge sees hundreds of speeding cases a day. He/She is required to grant leniency for some and make examples out of others who are repeat offenders.

If this is your first time, you don't need a lawyer. The money you spend on a lawyer will cancel out the money you save. Just be a man and try to convince the judge in one sentence or less why you think you should get a reduced sentence. THE WORST CASE SCENARIO IS YOU PAY THE SAME AMOUNT AS NOT GOING TO COURT.

ALSO... even if you fail miserably in court...

not a single person in here suggested you take the Online Defensive Drivers School that will give you 4 NEGATIVE points on your record. It took me 4 seconds to find this:

http://www.drivinguniversity.com/north-carolina-online-defensive-driving-traffic-school/#faq

It's only $29.95 and you're guaranteed to pass.







Americans that can think for themselves always win. Don't be stupid.



[Edited on September 5, 2010 at 4:51 AM. Reason : .]

9/5/2010 4:49:21 AM

Don't get a lawyer to save money. Get a lawyer to save time. You are about to get 12-15 letters in the mail. Call them all, see who will do it for a flat fee and see who is the cheapest. They all will achieve the same outcome. Write a check and never think about it again.

Sure you can accomplish the same outcome but it's a huge pain in the ass if you don't live in the county where you got the ticket.

9/5/2010 9:16:13 AM

get a lawyer and get it reduced/pjc/whatever so that you don't pay for it for years on your insurance.

9/5/2010 11:53:13 AM

Quote :

"The money you spend on a lawyer will cancel out the money you save."

he's not going to save ANY money by using a lawyer. Nobody suggested otherwise afaik.

Quote :

"not a single person in here suggested you take the Online Defensive Drivers School that will give you 4 NEGATIVE points on your record. It took me 4 seconds to find this:"

nobody mentioned it because the op asked if he should get a lawyer or not. Not how to lower his points. The points from this, by itself, won't mean shit so there's not really a need to lower them in regard to this unless he just wants to do so. It should be 3 license points and 0 insurance points. Neither will impact anything at this time.

Quote :

"If this is your first time, you don't need a lawyer."

It has nothing to do with whether or not it's his first time. It has to do with the specific charge and what he would like to do with it. And if he can fit attending court into his schedule or not.

If he wants to use a PJC or get it reduced to 9-over, he does not need a lawyer unless he can't actually go himself. If he wants the potential to get it reduced to a different charge or possibly dropped altogether, he should get a lawyer for the best chances of that to happen. Or if he'd simply rather spend the money and not the time dealing with it, he should get a lawyer.

9/5/2010 1:30:00 PM

^^^^^ Exactly what I was getting at. PJC, at best, is a waste. At worst, it's not as beneficial as just getting this one reduced. PJCs are for more severe tickets...you're an idiot if you use it on this one.

I would hands-down PREFER to have the 9-over than the PJC.

Quote :

"Whoever suggested a lawyer for a speeding ticket is a complete moron who listens to bullshit on the TV."

Personally, I think a lawyer is hands-down the best way to deal with this, unless you are all but 100% sure you won't get another ticket within the next 3 years--then you can probably get a 9-over by yourself. However, the lawyer will probably cost $100 or likely less in addition to what you'll end up spending by going it alone...so even if you don't think you'll get another ticket, a lawyer isn't a bad idea at all.

Quote :

"You are about to get 12-15 letters in the mail. Call them all, see who will do it for a flat fee and see who is the cheapest. They all will achieve the same outcome. Write a check and never think about it again. "

Yep. You aren't hiring Johnny Cochran. There isn't going to be any legal maneuvering or great presentation of your case. You are essentially hiring a professional pain in the ass, and the courts will give him (you) what he wants because of that. Like I said before, on a 15-over ticket, most places will have one deal they pretty much automatically cut for anyone who shows up to court (probably 9-over), and another that they pretty much automatically cut for anyone who sends a lawyer (probably non-moving violation). If they don't do this, the lawyers would start fighting, and it would cause legal gridlock and cost the state revenue. The lawyer gets a better deal than you do because of who he is and what he can do, not because of any great courtroom skills he'll exercise on your behalf. In other words, yes, on a ticket like this, I'd just go with the cheapest lawyer. The court will give the automatic, cookie-cutter response.

Quote :

"It has nothing to do with whether or not it's his first time. It has to do with the specific charge and what he would like to do with it. And if he can fit attending court into his schedule or not."

Exactly. Well, I'd say "almost nothing" to do with whether it's his first time. At some ridiculous point, that might become a minor consideration.


I've probably been pulled over at least 100 times. I don't know how many tickets I've had...I'm sure it's in the double-digits. Hell, I got pulled over 13 times in 13 months a couple of years ago (and ticketed 3 times in one year). I think I have only a single 9-over ticket on my record. Take it from me on this one, dude.

9/5/2010 1:55:27 PM

i don't even think anyone checks to see if its your first 9-over either; i've used this 2 or 3 times and have zero points on my license and insurance (didn't even lose the safe driver discount)

9/5/2010 2:00:57 PM

My roommate got pulled in Durham on a bicycle for running a stop sign, he showed up in court, got 60 bucks knocked off his ticket, and it got reduced to a non-moving violation, or something of the sort.

Dang, how do you people get so many tickets? Do you have a magnet on your car that attracts the po-po? I got one up in Carroll Co., VA a few years back and that was enough of a PIA as it was.

9/5/2010 2:52:57 PM

VA is a bunch of fucking nazis when it comes to traffic stuff. No joke, there is no way I'd live in that state. They're THAT bad.

How do I get lots of tickets? Well, I pretty much exclusively drive hot sports cars that attract cop attention, and I speed a lot. That, and the time I got pulled over 13 times in 13 months was in Whidbey Island, WA...it's a mix of military, vacation homes, and old-school locals who don't like anyone intruding on their formerly quiet little island. The cops are ridiculous...I got pulled for the first time about 15 minutes after arriving and taking my car off the trailer. I got 3 tickets that year, one of my roommates got 2, and the other roommate got 1.

...but mostly it's because I drive how I want and pay what it costs.

9/5/2010 3:10:17 PM

Quote :

"The United States issues millions of tickets a year and it's only a crime because the law says so"

Kinda self explanatory eh? I mean, what crime isn't such because the law says so?

9/5/2010 5:02:54 PM

It just means if you successfully speed without causing an accident, the world is unaffected by the outcome. Whether you speed or not speed, you're just traveling from point A to point B.

They make it a crime for no valid reason. You can't assume people will get into an accident if they speed. They penalize the responsible drivers for the faults of irresponsible drivers.

Jaywalking is another example of a crimeless crime. Because some idiots can't look both ways before crossing the street and because some idiots walk down the middle of the street, at night, without smiling for us to see them, it's illegal for those of us who are responsible to cross the street at any point.


Other crimeless crimes include:

Changing in a public bathroom
Playing frisbee on the beach
Lying down on a sidewalk
Peeing outdoors
Public nudity
Open Beer in public

9/5/2010 5:52:27 PM

Quote :

"Don't get a lawyer to save money. Get a lawyer to save time. You are about to get 12-15 letters in the mail. Call them all, see who will do it for a flat fee and see who is the cheapest. They all will achieve the same outcome. Write a check and never think about it again. Sure you can accomplish the same outcome but it's a huge pain in the ass if you don't live in the county where you got the ticket."

+1

If I didn't live close to the place I got a ticket or I just flat out broke, my time is worth more than my money. My last few reductions to improper equipment across the state, the lawyer only made $60-80 bucks on me, the rest went towards the court costs and fine. Fuck a day of driving and waiting everytime I get pulled over in bumfuck USA.

9/6/2010 12:46:18 AM

^^ I think you mean victimless crime. Or "crimes that I (you) don't think should be considered crimes."


not saying this to be a dick, but "crimeless crimes" is pretty stupid.

9/6/2010 1:08:10 AM

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=389230&page=11

9/6/2010 8:38:38 AM