http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/07/florida.quran.burning/index.html?hpt=T2

Quote :

" The pastor of a Florida church planning to burn Qurans told CNN Tuesday while the congregation plans to go through with the action to protest the September 11, 2001 attack on the United States by al Qaeda, the church is "weighing" its intentions"

Hitler Approves

9/7/2010 11:34:36 AM

Godwin's Law.

9/7/2010 11:50:51 AM

I watched the CNN interview this morning. Just completely clueless, this guy. A complete buffoon.

9/7/2010 11:58:36 AM

When they burn Qurans Muslims may retaliate by burning Bibles. EVERYBODY LOSES!

9/7/2010 12:11:54 PM

One of the problems is that radical Muslims respond to symbolic gestures with actual violence. It's fucked up, I know, but when you know that doing something pointless (burning Korans) will result in actual people getting hurt/killed, you're being reckless for no point whatsoever.

However, I support their right to burn books. It definitely shouldn't be against the law or anything.

Of course, if neither Americans nor Arabs believed in fairy tale bullshit we wouldn't be having this conversation, but I digress.

[Edited on September 7, 2010 at 12:28 PM. Reason : .]

9/7/2010 12:27:34 PM

what an idiot.

9/7/2010 12:44:36 PM

Its stupid to do, but its really stupid to be incited to violence over some shit like this. I'm Christian, but burning the Bible or a picture of Jesus is not going to make me want to go out and fucking kill people in the name of the Lord. Same with burning the flag. Not sure why people let shit like this get their panties in such a bunch.

9/7/2010 12:46:44 PM

wow. just wow.

If he's just doing it to get at the RADICAL Muslims, and sees "normal" muslims as ok, then why doesnt he burn a few bibles too to get at the RADICAL Christians?

This is what's wrong with Amuuuurica.

[Edited on September 7, 2010 at 12:57 PM. Reason : .]

9/7/2010 12:50:11 PM

9/7/2010 1:05:25 PM

My post from the mosque thread:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/24/florida.burn.quran.day/

Quote :

"Pastor says armed militia to protect church during Quran-burning event (CNN) -- An armed Christian organization, Right Wing Extreme, will protect a church that is planning to host an "International Burn a Quran Day" on September 11, the church's pastor said Tuesday. The Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, says it is hosting the event to remember 9/11 victims and to take a stand against Islam. ... Dove World Outreach Center Pastor Terry Jones has accepted the support of Right Wing Extreme, which he said offered to come to the church with between 500 and 2,000 men on September 11. He described the organization as an armed civilian militia group."

Quote :

"But in a statement sent to CNN by the Dove World Outreach Center, Right Wing Extreme founder Shannon Carson said: "We fully support Dove World Outreach Center and its efforts to put an end to the notion that Islam is a peaceful religion. Islam is a violent cult"

Nothing like militias and setting things on fire to prove the other group is the violent one. Total messaging fail.

9/7/2010 2:21:30 PM

Petraeus: Quran-burning could endanger troops
http://afghanistan.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/07/petraeus-quran-burning-could-endanger-troops/?iref=allsearch

9/7/2010 2:23:24 PM

I'm not above quoting myself:

Quote :

"My God, don't those idiots see what they're doing? We already ship a bunch of money to Muslims to buy oil for us to burn. Now we're adding Korans? I just hope we can find a domestic source of Korans so that we don't have to import it. Of course, that has its own risks. If we accidentally blow up a Koran Drill and fill the gulf with holy books it'll be bad. I can see it now, those poor pelicans, covered in Korans...terrible."

Also, these guys are all fucking douchebags. However, since I can't support a legal ban on book burning I have to take the sleazy way out and say I can wholeheartedly support civilians beating the shit out of these guys.

9/7/2010 4:31:31 PM

Quote :

"Godwin's Law. "

I do not think this topic applies for godwin's law since the act of book burning allows one to create a direct link to the acts of the Nazi regime in 1930's Germany.



[Edited on September 7, 2010 at 4:43 PM. Reason : l]

9/7/2010 4:42:22 PM

"Nazis did it" isn't really a good analogy unless the action under discussion shares some of the nefarious desires and motivations of Nazis.

OH WAIT

[Edited on September 7, 2010 at 5:38 PM. Reason : .]

9/7/2010 5:38:08 PM

while I support their right to free expression

what a dbag

[Edited on September 7, 2010 at 5:53 PM. Reason : .]

9/7/2010 5:49:03 PM

Quote :

"Dove World Outreach Center"

WTF?

Total name [fail]. They should change their name to...

Serpent Damn the World Center.

9/7/2010 8:20:10 PM

Quote :

"Right Wing Extreme"

Sounds like the name of a WWE tag team or really lame monster truck rally.

Although, at least on the surface, their leader seems to have some sense compared to the church pastor:

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-25/us/florida.burn.quran.day_1_islam-support-terror-attacks?_s=PM:US

Quote :

"An armed Christian organization which had pledged to protect a Florida church as it holds "International Burn a Quran Day" withdrew its support from the event Wednesday, saying it "does not glorify God," according to a posting on its website. Right Wing Extreme, which describes itself as a Christian conservative group, also said in the posting it is asking the Dove World Outreach Center, based in Gainesville, Florida, not to hold the event "for the reason that it may diminish the work of the Holy Spirit to witness to Muslims.""

He's still a right wing nutjob, but at least he sees that doing this is going to hurt their cause more than help it.

9/7/2010 9:22:09 PM

If these civilians are allowed to form an organized militia, what would happen if a organized Muslim militia decided to be at the church that day... I have no problem with them wanting to burn a few books on a legal level, but I have a problem with them threatening violence and trying to incite it. Burn the books and lose the weapons, pussies.

9/7/2010 10:48:55 PM

fucking morons

9/7/2010 11:07:24 PM

Totally disagree with the book burning, but they have the right to do it and if they want to go toe to toe with thousands of angry nutjob Muslims and risk their lives just to make a statement, be my guest.

9/7/2010 11:16:42 PM

problem is they won't be the ones going toe-to-toe with thousands of nutjob Muslims

9/7/2010 11:19:36 PM

I think they will chicken out.

9/8/2010 7:08:18 PM

If they do, I bet the nuts at Westboro wouldn't.

9/8/2010 7:23:25 PM

These retarded religious nuts even have a Facebook group:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/International-Burn-A-Koran-Day/134718123226530?v=wall

Some of the comments on their wall:

Quote :

"Steven Lockyer It's time For Christian Soldiers to take Ground and fight the Good Fight."

Quote :

"Richard Fellin i think that this pastor has created some awakening in the USA and it cant be stopped now even if the pastor puss's out many korans across the nation will burn"

Quote :

"Robin Jonsson You fuckers keep burning our flags and shit, its payback time for your shitty book."

Quote :

"Abraham Angel If muslims really dont support terrorist attack plz tell me, whats the name of the muslim anti terrorist agency?"

Quote :

"Thomas Harrington After burning the Koran, throw a few muslims on top. They seem to get all the fucking rights these days and make out their fucking victims. And don't get me started on the mosque being built next to ground zero. Talk about taking the piss!!!!!! You can shove the Koran right up your ass!!!!!"

Some of the responses on there are insane.

9/8/2010 7:29:45 PM

Quote :

"problem is they won't be the ones going toe-to-toe with thousands of nutjob Muslims "

nutjob muslims are going to be nutjob muslims regardless of whether or not someone burns a big pile of Korans.

9/8/2010 8:28:56 PM

you didn't get what I was getting at...

9/8/2010 8:31:03 PM

If there was a holy war between Muslims and Christians, Muslims would totally kick their asses so maybe the Christians should know their role and shut their mouths.

9/8/2010 8:32:45 PM

Even Palin is opposed to this: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/41907.html

Quote :

""I would hope that Pastor Terry Jones and his supporters will consider the ramifications of their planned book-burning event," Palin wrote. "It will feed the fire of caustic rhetoric and appear as nothing more than mean-spirited religious intolerance. Don’t feed that fire. If your ultimate point is to prove that the Christian teachings of mercy, justice, freedom and equality provide the foundation on which our country stands, then your tactic to prove this point is totally counterproductive.""

Arguably the smartest thing she's ever said.

9/8/2010 9:00:22 PM

I was tempted to troll that facebook page but I have to press like to comment and I am not doing that.

9/9/2010 10:15:41 AM

I'm still not sure why I'm supposed to be outraged about this. How many Korans are in print? If we burn some, will we be suppressing any knowledge? Is anyone harmed by this book burning? It seems like a meaningless gesture to me. The funny part is that it's Christians doing it, who despite having a similar belief system, will always have the high ground, because you can burn all the bibles you want and you don't have to worry about being killed for it.

There was a time when book burning was offensive. It was a time when there was no internet, and there was knowledge contained in books that would be very hard to obtain anywhere else. A book burning represented an attempt to stop the spread of information. That's offensive. Burning a bible doesn't stop the spread of information. You can order bibles in massive quantities, and they're cheap to make. You can read the full text online.

The irresponsible thing about this is the possible violent retaliation that this pastor is opening his congregation up to. I don't know how likely that is, really, given that people blaspheme Allah publicly and openly in this country every day.

9/9/2010 10:49:27 AM

Quote :

"because you can burn all the bibles you want and you don't have to worry about being killed for it. "

LOL

Did you miss the muslim guy being stabbed because he was a muslim?

And this is a problem because these few backwards hillbilly Christians are making all Americans look bad. This book burning, which i honestly thought would fall off the radar a few weeks ago when i first heard about it, is not international news. It's sad.

And when American's look bad, our troops suffer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11209738

The real world isn't like Call of Duty where enemies infinitely respawn, events have consequences on peoples' behavior (imagine that...).

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 11:00 AM. Reason : ]

9/9/2010 10:52:24 AM

Quote :

"When they burn Qurans Muslims may retaliate by burning Bibles. EVERYBODY LOSES WINS! "

9/9/2010 11:07:05 AM

^^, right. The response by Radical Muslims to shit like drawing cartoons and burning books is fucking retarded, but it is what it is. I'm very torn on this. On the one hand I think it's useful to illustrate their retardation, but endangering actual human lives may not be worth it.

9/9/2010 11:23:30 AM

Well, if you're going to oppose everything that might incite Islamic violence, then you'll also have to oppose novels that incorporate Islamic mythology, cartoons that depict Mohammad, and films about women and Islam. And that's just for starters.

9/9/2010 11:29:01 AM

My wife is wearing shorts today, I hope this doesnt offend muslims.

I think this guy is a DB too, but if he bought the book go for it.

How many of you that oppose this support the mosque near ground zero? I think both probably dont need to happen, but they have every right to do them both.

The shocking thing about this to me is how much fing attention this is getting. Even Patraeus commented on it. Doesnt he have more important things to worry about than some idiot burning a book.

9/9/2010 11:55:18 AM

Quote :

"My wife is wearing shorts today, I hope this doesnt offend muslims."

You don't see a difference between something some Muslims disagree with on principle and an event that is intended to say "Fuck you, your culture, your religion"?

Quote :

"How many of you that oppose this support the mosque near ground zero? I think both probably dont need to happen, but they have every right to do them both."

I support the Mosque and oppose the burning. I realize both have the right but disagree with events based purely on misguided, ignorant hatred. I'm sorry but I can't get behind intentionally shitting on an entire culture. If you don't see a difference between a house of worship and a burning of religious texts I have no idea what to tell you.

You sound like one of those Americans shocked and appalled that people overseas are blaming all Americans for the actions of 20, who then turn around and oppose the Mosque in an ISOMORPHIC SITUATION.

Quote :

"The shocking thing about this to me is how much fing attention this is getting. Even Patraeus commented on it. Doesnt he have more important things to worry about than some idiot burning a book."

You don't consider these actions as a serious threat to the safety of American troops overseas? Like, you've sat down, considered the actions and the social consequences of the actions worldwide, and you've concluded that it's not an issue Petraeus should be concerned with?

I just want to make sure. You sat down and came to this conclusion after thinking about it for more than a fleeting second?

9/9/2010 12:21:24 PM

What's wrong with saying "fuck you, your culture, your religion"? If I say this, I'm to be held accountable for the actions of some religious fanatic that hears it, gets offended, and decides the best way to respond is to go decapitate somebody?

9/9/2010 12:40:46 PM

I think the news stations should feel a social responsibility to NOT provide coverage of this event should it actually go down. Without the media blowing this event out of proportion, there'd be no wind for this idiot's sails.

9/9/2010 12:41:58 PM

That would certainly be keeping up the tradition of self-censoring any content that could potentially upset fanatical Muslims.

9/9/2010 12:44:23 PM

No religious culture is worth defending, least of all to the death.

all this religious horseshit does is provide a cover for each side to hide behind. Christians justify burning shit and whining about mosques because islamic turrrists did 9/11. Muslims justify suicide bombings because a tiny group of Americans burned some dumb gay book. Jews justify genociding palistine because its their religious god given right to own the land and they sell it to Americans as a religious war (jews vs barbarian muslims).

Any culture that would react with violence to a slight so fucking insignificant deserves to be scoured from the earth.

There is no point for any religion with ancient tribal values to continue to exist in modern times. All it does is drag us backwards into primitive messes.

All religious expansion and all other forms of primitive cultural expansion should be opposed at every level.

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 12:49 PM. Reason : a]

9/9/2010 12:47:02 PM

It's a catch-22 to be sure. The book burners would not be responsible for any deaths as a result of radical islam's response to their book burning. The radical Islamists actioning the response would be responsible.

But at the same time, if you know with relative certainty that radical Islamists will use this as an excuse to kill people, why do it?

I don't oppose their right to burn whatever the fuck they want and in fact I like the idea of destroying religious texts. But in a purely utilitarian view, it's effect will not be a net positive. And this is a pure act of religious antagonism rather than free expression.

9/9/2010 12:52:34 PM

Well if you know the cops are just gonna kill you for being black, you should just stay away from the cops right?

The threat of voilence should not prevent you from exercizing your right to free speech and free expression. We should not tolerate barbarian cultures continuing voilence in the name of outdated tradition. I dont give any shits about the religion they hide behind, they are absolutely wrong in their actions and we should not allow them any accomodations.

9/9/2010 1:01:29 PM

How is antagonism not a valid form of free expression? You really think we should sacrifice our right to offend - even antagonize - just because there's a mere threat of violence? Talk about crying before you've been hurt.

And what other forms of speech should we censor under the category of antagonism? Caricatures of Mohammad? Novels? Short films?

Would you stop ridiculing Christian dogma and tradition if some group of Bible Belt fundamentalists threatened to respond with violence?

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 1:04 PM. Reason : ]

9/9/2010 1:02:03 PM

I just think there's a difference between making film that someone could find offensive and dedicating an entire day to offending Islamists. That's all. I'm not defending the radical Islamist's reaction in any way. They're fucking idiot barbarians for wanting to kill people over bullshit that isn't true.

I'm not saying we should censor this or anything. I'm not saying that burning books shouldn't be a right. They should be able to burn books for the rest of their lives if they felt that desire.

But should they exercise that right just because it's there?

If someone threatened me with physical harm because of my rantings on this board, I would not stop. If someone with a history of murder threatened to murder someone else because of my rantings on this board, I probably would stop. Of course, in this microcosm they would be punished for such threats, but the world is not the state of North Carolina and we don't have the power nor right to wipe them out as Shaggy suggests we should.

9/9/2010 1:13:46 PM

Quote :

"You don't see a difference between something some Muslims disagree with on principle and an event that is intended to say "Fuck you, your culture, your religion"?"

That's exactly what I say on a daily basis. They don't respect women. They murder homosexuals. They certainly don't value liberty. Their culture is based on militant religionism and silencing opposing viewpoints. I don't respect it, I despise it, and the world would be better off if they didn't believe what they believed.

9/9/2010 1:17:42 PM

Quote :

"RIGHT UP YOUR ASS"

lawl

9/9/2010 1:26:00 PM

Hey d357r0y3r, you got your Quran ready?

9/9/2010 3:21:07 PM

Quote :

"That's exactly what I say on a daily basis. They don't respect women. They murder homosexuals. They certainly don't value liberty. Their culture is based on militant religionism and silencing opposing viewpoints. I don't respect it, I despise it, and the world would be better off if they didn't believe what they believed."

So because you disagree with their culture, and many other people in the US disagree with their culture, it makes it justifiable to offend them? I'm not saying you can't do it, but being able to do something doesn't mean you should. It's not rational to do everything that you want to do simply because you can without any consequences.

Nobody is defending the Muslim's response. I don't see anyone defending their possible response, whether it be Democrats or Republicans, Christians/Jews/Atheists or even Muslims who disagree with the radicals they are associated with.

At the same time, I think the people who want to do the book burning are also wrong.

I see it similar to being at a bar and telling some guy who you know can kick your ass to go fuck his mother and choke on a dick and die of AIDS. His most probably response would be to resort to violence and kick your ass. You're given the opportunity to choose an action that will incite anger and violence or avoid it. The most rational is to avoid the violence. This doesn't mean that the person who kicks your ass isn't doing anything wrong. He most certainly be wrong. But you would be wrong for being a dumb ass for provoking him in the first place.

Quote :

"The threat of voilence should not prevent you from exercizing your right to free speech and free expression. We should not tolerate barbarian cultures continuing voilence in the name of outdated tradition. I dont give any shits about the religion they hide behind, they are absolutely wrong in their actions and we should not allow them any accomodations."

At the same time, with the right of free speech and free expression does not come the right of being free of consequences for your choice to exercise your freedoms. Like my previous example, you're free to insult someone, but that doesn't mean that there won't be consequences for your actions. This doesn't mean that the person who retaliates is right, but choosing to exercise your right to freedom of speech doesn't mean that you are right in what you say on a moral level.

There are better ways to express your displeasure with their culture. You can publish a book, write a newspaper article, go over to that area and try and change their culture. All of those might generate protest by them, but are less likely to generate rage and violence.

And nobody is saying we should tolerate their violence, but trying to incite violence is just irresponsible.

Quote :

"How is antagonism not a valid form of free expression? You really think we should sacrifice our right to offend - even antagonize - just because there's a mere threat of violence?"

I think being rational in how you object something is what is being proposed. I don't consider a book burning to be rational. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean that your actions are rational or moral or responsible. Laws set limits on what we can do, they don't give us the tools in which we can do what we are allowed to do. Sometimes you need to use your best judgment and decide to not do something you want to do because the consequences outweigh the reward.

What do these people even hope to accomplish? The people in the Middle East aren't going to change their ways, and it's not even going to persuade them to change their way. All it's doing is offending them. It's that simple.

Quote :

"And what other forms of speech should we censor under the category of antagonism? Caricatures of Mohammad? Novels? Short films?"

Take your strawman down. Almost nobody is proposing that the book burning be banned or made illegal. All we want is for it to not happen. We don't think anyone should be arrested as long as it stays peaceful. Don't forget that people objecting to your speech is also a valid form of free expression. Trying to persuade someone to not do something is also valid.

Quote :

"Would you stop ridiculing Christian dogma and tradition if some group of Bible Belt fundamentalists threatened to respond with violence?"

It's one thing to object, it's another thing to blatantly go out of your way to offend a group of people. It's one thing to object with logic, reason and even an appeal to emotion, it's another to simply use hatred as your objection.

9/9/2010 3:47:27 PM

I already said it was a meaningless gesture. These guys aren't against Islam because it's unjustified faith. They're against it because it isn't Christianity.

Quote :

"So because you disagree with their culture, and many other people in the US disagree with their culture, it makes it justifiable to offend them? I'm not saying you can't do it, but being able to do something doesn't mean you should. It's not rational to do everything that you want to do simply because you can without any consequences."

Yes. They should be offended. If I wholeheartedly believed that my car started up and worked because there are invisible unicorns inside operating the parts, and insisted that it was my faith and that you should tolerate it, everyone here would mock me. Everyone everywhere would mock me - and I would deserve it.

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 3:53 PM. Reason : ]

9/9/2010 3:47:36 PM

Your rhetoric is really caustic, old, and exhausting. You can continue to approach discussions feigning ignorance of how the world is and works, if you'd like. There's seriously no reason to derail literally every discussion involving religious people into your adolescent opinions about what is and isn't appropriate in somebody else's mental life.

9/9/2010 4:00:48 PM