Since it seems that there is quite a few of us now.... i figured maybe keeping random subie talk to one thread may be a good idea so we don't start spamming other people's threads.

So right now I'm debating between getting a cobb access port and just getting a tactrix cable and doing open source tuning on my own. I like that the AP can change tunes on the fly so i can run e85 and not be screwed when i get to a place that doesn't have it.

I've also been thinking about getting the PLX Kiwi for the car too so i can read the factory egt and boost guages from my phone so all i'd need is to get a wide band to plug into the kiwi and i'd have everything needed to tune without having to hack into the factory harness or have gauge pods all over my dash when my iphone4 fits perfectly in the little dash cubby on my legacy.

any ideas/suggestions?

Thank you,
-foo1

10/24/2010 12:39:53 PM

How about attending a rallycross and putting your car to proper use good sir.

10/24/2010 7:08:06 PM

Lol I will attend the one on the 7th still not sure I want to compete in my dd though good sir. And I'm not sure bfg gforce tires are the right shoes for that either...

[Edited on October 24, 2010 at 8:44 PM. Reason : .]

10/24/2010 8:38:06 PM

Speaking from experience, you need to think about the Cobb AP as a piece of hardware, not a collection of one-size-fits-all maps. Buy it if you are going to use its features. The main features are

1) DIY laptop tuning. The AP software (AccessTuner Race) and the open source software can edit the same parameters in the ECU . The tables are labeled slightly different but it's the same thing. I have both sets of software. There are some additional (mostly obscure things) that the opensource software can change or log, but otherwise there's no real difference. The AP has a tuning guide and the tuning info for the opensource stuff applies to the Cobb.

2) Realtime capability. So if you have your laptop hooked up and want to change the main fuel table, you make the change real quick and then you can keep driving. With the open source tactrix you will have to pull over, cut the car off, connect the diagnostic mode connectors and wait for every single change you make. With the AP you still have to do that but usually you do it after you've finished up and want to flash it on there so you don't lose the tune when the battery dies. If you have a friend once person can keep making adjustments and the other can drive without being constantly interrupted.

3) peak hold data display. the AP will display live data (one parameter at a time) and show max/min values. If you install a permanent mount for it (there are products out there for this) you can use it as your boost gauge, coolant temp gauge, whatever. it reads most of the main parameters from the factoy ECU.

4) code checking and clearing

5) realtime map switching without needing a laptop or without cutting off the car, as you've pointed out

6) logging and storing data on the AP itself that you can then copy to your laptop later for analysis

7) fuel economy meter, 0-60 times, launch control, and other little features that you'd probably try once and never touch again


so the AP has all these features. Yes it comes with basemaps, and they work ok "as-is" if you follow the instructions in the map notes (you need to have stock intake and catted exhaust). They're also not bad starting points if you do your own tuning.

BUT... if you are going to buy an AP, flash a map on there, then throw the AP in the closet and hardly ever touch the hardware again it's going to be a waste of money. You might as well just take your car somewhere and pay someone to tune it with a Tactrix cable.

10/25/2010 10:51:30 AM

I agree with arghx.

If you plan on paying $600 for the AP and use it only once or twice, then don't bother. Just get a custom tune.

Although, if you plan on modifying more in the future, but don't really know what modification path you want to take, then I think the Cobb AP is a great deal. It provides you the flexibility and features that you don't get with a one time custom tune. Think about it. The AP costs around $600 new. A custom dyno and/or tune costs $200+. If you use it more than 3 times during your upgrade path, it's already saved you money.


I have the old version of the AP (version 1). I paid ~$300 for it back in the day. The new version of the AP is awesome. My old version has barely half the capabilities of the new one.

So, in conclusion:

1) If you plan on doing all your modifications at once, then save money get a one time custom tune.
2) If you plan on upgrading slowly into the future, then buy the AP. It's useful and might actually save you money in the long run.

10/25/2010 11:44:56 AM

10-4 I guess I may not need all the plx kiwi shit then either. So the ap comes with the software to tweak and edit maps? Or does that cost extra. I'd really like the ability to have an e85 map and a 93 map. Because there's a gas station with e85 near the house but since it is the only one in Raleigh I don't want to be stuck needing 93 and not be able to switch tunes. That's my main + with the access port. The rest of the code reading and clearing stuff can be done with the kiwi and my iPhone. And the I'd just use a tactrix cable and a laptop to tune.
I think I still want the plx cable for boos and wide band. But the AP looks better and better.

10/25/2010 1:02:46 PM

Quote :

"So the ap comes with the software to tweak and edit maps? "

where do you think I got those screenshots from that I posted in the other thread? Cobb is tight with their intellectual property. When you get the AP you go online to their AccessTuner Race request form. You type in the serial # of your AP and in a day or two they send you a version of tuning software that only works with your make and model.

Quote :

"The rest of the code reading and clearing stuff can be done with the kiwi and my iPhone. And the I'd just use a tactrix cable and a laptop to tune."

What's the point of using all these devices? The AP already reads and clears codes, and it lists the Subaru-specific codes whereas your universal one probably won't have all the Subaru ones in there. Why would you spend money on the Tactrix cable unless you plan to use it on other Subarus as well? I don't think you'll be able to tune with a Tactrix cable if you have the AP installed at the same time. The AP makes some changes to the ECU, at least until you permanently uninstall it.

As for the wideband, well you can log an AEM, Innovate, PLX, or Zeitronix wideband through the AccessTuner Race software. You can also log the front O2 sensor which is a factory wideband. The factory wideband needs to be relocated after the turbo (in the downpipe) to read accurately under boost. It "pegs" at 11.2:1 though, whereas most aftermarket ones will read at least as rich as 9:1 or 10:1. The AP itself can display the front O2 sensor reading but it can't display input from another wideband.

10/25/2010 2:21:19 PM

If you plan on paying $600 for the AP and use it only once or twice, then don't bother. Just get a custom tune track day pass.

10/25/2010 2:45:15 PM

I'm debating either/or on this one. I guess you are right why not go ap and have a concrete baseline to work from. Not to mention having a dedicated flashing tool rather than carrying a laptop around everywhere.

10/25/2010 4:01:41 PM

I would just go open source assuming its a pretty decent solution.

People have been tuning turbo hondas on open source crap for a decade.



[Edited on October 25, 2010 at 5:53 PM. Reason : .]

10/25/2010 5:52:43 PM

Turbo Honda?


On that note... the folks at Turbo Time in Cary do open source tuning if you need someone professional to help.

10/25/2010 11:15:40 PM

Yeah I talk to the folks a turbo time a lot. I've bought some stuff from them and sorta planed out the direction I'm going with them and if I were to have a pro tune that's where I'd go but I really want to give it a go myself but I'll probably stay too conservative and have a car that runs like crap and then have them tune it lol. Nahh I think I'm going with the ap so i can do stg 1 2 etc. The thing I'm worried about is having a vf 52 I can't really use an "off the shelf tune" unless it's for an 09-10 wrx.

10/26/2010 8:10:40 AM

^^

Exactly my point. If i can find base maps for every turbo under the sun for an engine that wasn't even factory boosted how can it be even remotely challenging to find one for a subaru?

Slow ass subarus

10/26/2010 1:44:35 PM

so where do i post if i dont have a turbo subaru, like some of the other posters have. why isnt this the impreza thread

10/26/2010 5:52:42 PM

Quote :

" The thing I'm worried about is having a vf 52 I can't really use an "off the shelf tune" unless it's for an 09-10 wrx."

Ok so what exactly is done to this car. It's an '05 LGT but it blew the factory turbo it sounds like (unsurprising). So somebody put a VF52 on it? Did somebody else tune it in the past?

10/26/2010 6:26:08 PM

No idea that's why I need a boost gauge or something on this sucker. If has been tuned openscource before will it still take an access port?


Ohh and. Ragged my car isn't an impreza but it is a turbo subie and if you haven't noticed most of this is turbo talk.

[Edited on October 26, 2010 at 7:01 PM. Reason : .]

10/26/2010 6:59:23 PM

I miss mine. :'(


Let me know if anybody sees one for under $5500. xoxo

10/26/2010 7:13:55 PM

Lol got my lgt for 8 :-)

10/26/2010 7:33:03 PM

Quote :

"No idea that's why I need a boost gauge or something on this sucker. If has been tuned openscource before will it still take an access port?"

I'm not entirely sure if it would have to be flashed back to stock first. Try calling Cobb and asking them. It would be nice to see the map that's on there first.

10/27/2010 2:02:00 AM

It doesn't, they reccomend it so te stock map isn't lost but at this point if it's not running the stock map it's gone for this car anyway. It's not like I'm going to be able to find whomever may have tuned it and ask for the stock map back.

10/27/2010 7:50:48 AM

It doesn't really matter. There is a "stock mode" map that Cobb provides. It has all the default tables.

10/27/2010 4:43:38 PM

i type like a retard on my phone from work

yeah i'm pretty sure i'm going cobb ap.
part if me still wants the plx kiwi though something about an iphone 4 boost gauge sounds cool... + it fits perfect in the dash cubby.

10/27/2010 6:01:09 PM

mechanical gauge > iphone bullshit

10/28/2010 9:50:35 AM

Lol all wide bands are digital though so time for iPhone bullshit ?? Lol

Nevermind the ap can log that too. Time for an access port humph.

10/28/2010 1:00:39 PM

Lol all wide bands are digital though so time for iPhone bullshit ?? Lol

Nevermind the ap can log that too. Time for an access port humph.

10/28/2010 1:00:39 PM

rumor has it that Cobb is working on smartphone apps for their next generation system

10/28/2010 4:19:43 PM

Sob now I want to wait on that I think I'm just gonna get a used apv2 and ditch it if something better this way comes.

10/29/2010 12:15:37 PM

Tyyypical. All talk, no action.

10/30/2010 12:31:41 AM

Lol no joke I have a couple bigger fish to fry then this. But it will be done by feb ( up down intercooler and tune)

10/30/2010 8:51:25 AM

SAS

10/30/2010 11:13:31 AM

Ahmet almost stole the lives of three you lads last night in Cary. However, they lived and will all be buying an STI as soon as they can afford it...

10/30/2010 11:37:11 AM

Haha, yeah, that made my night, I'm sure they won't forget it anytime soon.

I loved it when they were all like "ZOMG!1 what's done to it!!11", and you said it was stock...

10/30/2010 7:04:17 PM

WTF. Don't drive aggressive or your car will blow up. Cmon Havnt you seen the threads about it. Gosh.

10/31/2010 9:22:39 AM

I blew up my Subaru at least a dozen times this weekend.

10/31/2010 2:23:01 PM

I've been assisting a friend with an '05 STi clutch job. I should have pics eventually. It's pretty much done, but he is waiting to get the OEM STi transmission fluid.

11/7/2010 10:25:30 AM

The Subaru fluid is the best. If he ever wants to give up his tranny, let me know.

11/7/2010 1:39:19 PM

New plate in the mail today. Adds no less than 23 horses.

11/12/2010 2:45:42 PM

AWESOME FREAKING AWESOME.

Now we need someone with a red forester XT and we can have a plethora of turbo 2.5 subaru's in red white & black... Perfect tailgating setup! (only two with semi closed deck blocks tho)

Btw here is mine.



[Edited on November 12, 2010 at 3:37 PM. Reason : .]

11/12/2010 3:31:40 PM

Also i'm thinking of doing an air to water intercooler but i don't know if i want to or not. I like the idea of keeping the charge piping short yet keeping the airflow from an FMIC but i don't like the water weight of an air to water setup. Anyone have any experience with both and have a preference. Anyone know the differences in charge temps?

Thank you,
-Fool

11/12/2010 4:10:24 PM

Also i'm thinking of doing an air to water intercooler but i don't know if i want to or not. I like the idea of keeping the charge piping short yet keeping the airflow from an FMIC but i don't like the water weight of an air to water setup. Anyone have any experience with both and have a preference. Anyone know the differences in charge temps?

Thank you,
-Fool

11/12/2010 4:28:11 PM

Most of the air-to-water intercoolers out there are used on drag cars. This is because you can add ice to it after each pass. The owner of Piedmont Custom Motorsports runs one on his personal car. The problem is that an air-to-water intercooler is mostly advantageous when the water is cooler than the air.

Only noteworthy turbo engine I can think of that had a factory air-to-water intercooler was the GMC Syclone/Typhoon.

Quote :

"I like the idea of keeping the charge piping short "

The intercooler is bolted to the turbo on the 05-09 LGT EJ255. You can't get much shorter than that realistically. It still has to snake around to the throttle body. With a VF52 I think you'd be happy [enough] with a Perrin LGT fitment top mount intercooler. It's a pretty good part from my experience.

11/12/2010 5:12:54 PM

Yeah i know i have the vf-52 already although I'm really eying the 400whp twinscroll BW EFR turbos that just got released and if i did my own air to water setup using a flange and a silicon hose off the turbo then i could easily switch to a non LGT fitment turbo. And i really don't trust a tmic with much hp or pushing any turbo too hard being fed from my itty bitty hood scoop. The stock one i'm worried i'll blow the end tanks on ( a friend already did it @ 17 psi) and the perrin ones still keep me stuck with an LGT turbo which is ok for now.

Honestly i'm bouncing in circles.. I'd really like to go twinscroll rotated but then any up pipe/down pipe i get will be a waste of money. But then again i may be happy with 300whp (which is roughly where i should be with this turbo and 18-19lbs of boost)

And i don't know if i want springs shocks and sways first too or if i should leave her tall for possible auto-x

11/12/2010 5:36:19 PM

youre going to need way more than 300whp to be happy. Plan for 400!!!

11/12/2010 6:09:10 PM

^^ do you have 10 thousand dollars?

11/12/2010 7:41:01 PM

300whp and 360ftlbs??

11/12/2010 7:42:17 PM

It's a lot of car to move. 3000lbs + i would guess.

11/12/2010 9:02:10 PM

3300 ish even (my lgt has cloth manual seats no sunroof etc.)

11/12/2010 10:05:14 PM

If you try to go much over 300-350rwhp the costs will shoot up exponentially and longevity will be greatly compromised. It will only be a matter of time before you lose a motor and a transmission. For that power goal you may want to look into cams and rotated setups, or you will be really pushing a stock mounted turbo. That's why I said you will need at least $10k when all is said and done. You don't really need cams but without them an EJ25 pretty much hits a wall around 5500rpm and struggles to make additional power beyond that (depending on the turbo etc).


[Edited on November 13, 2010 at 10:40 AM. Reason : .]

11/13/2010 10:32:31 AM

Yea fortunately i have the sti cams in mine rather then the regular 2.5 cams but still they're no high rpm terror. I'm pretty sure i'll need pistons atleast if i go over 350hp. Its cool that the 05-06 legacies have an ej257 with a smaller turbo even though its tagged as an ej255 it still has the semi-closed deck block, rods ,pistons, and cams of an ej257.

The transmission is where i'm worried but i'd like to do an sti swap sometime anyway so if it lets go i may just let it. Also its been proven that the stock bottom end can handle 500whp for a racing season and a half by element tuning and the only reason it died then is phil wrecked it. I do want the 6spd and the font LSD/ DCCD from an sti though but i know that's like 6k in parts alone.

I really want to save up for a rotated twinscroll setup for the new BW EFR turbos but then again this is my DD and i can't afford to have it sitting for a week cause i blew the motor. Then again the likely hood of blowing a motor on low boost with a big turbo is less then high boost on a little turbo. On E85 i think i could run 400whp pretty safely.

My thoughts on the air to water intercooler is it will help keep things cool after idling in traffic for a bit too. Not to mention i wouldn't mind using an ice box from time to time but the extra weight sucks. I like the FMIC but then the 10 feet of 3" tube it requires is a lot of wasted volume the turbo has to compress before the motor sees power. But i'll probably just say screw it and go with an AVO fmic.

All said and done i think i should shut up and get some power vs wait and get eff-tons later. I agree though a stock location "big turbo" is a bad idea because when all is said and done.... the intake piping still needs to go under the intake manifold which will always be a restrictive path.

11/13/2010 10:58:51 AM

you need to get another car. there's really no point in having big plans if you don't have another car. it will inevitably be laid up for weeks

11/13/2010 6:41:15 PM