I would say Kindle vs. Nook since they're the ones I'm considering the most, but I know there's plenty of others out there so I figured I'd give them a shot too.


Anyway I'm considering an e-reader lately, and I've been looking mostly at Kindle and Nook (the current generations). I've played with a first-gen Nook but no Kindle. Nook was cool but not the best--I hear the Nook Color is a huge improvement, but I also hear (and read everywhere) that the new Kindle Wi-Fi is just amazing. The better PDF conversion would be perfect for me (a lot of research and literary journals in PDF format). Both are fesible to me at this point.

I'm wondering if I should just go to Best Buy and play with them. I know there's a lot of Kindle lovers on TWW, but anyone that loves a Nook?

11/18/2010 2:16:44 PM

I've had both of them and the kindle was much better imo. The Nook just had too many small annoyances for me. This may have been because of the software ( they've had an update since I had mine). Overall though I just really didn't care for the touchscreen. Full disclosure: I returned the Kindle 3 and got an iPad. I did find it easier and more enjoyable to use than the Nook for the 2 weeks (5 books) that I had it though.

11/18/2010 2:31:48 PM

I can't believe people pay for these things.

11/18/2010 2:36:12 PM

I have not had the others, but I'll say this. I really enjoy the iPad, and since it can do so much else besides being an e-reader, it's the only one that I'll ever get of the current pack. I just can't justify carrying around an additional device for simply reading books. With the iPad I have, I can use it as an alarm clock, check my email everywhere (with WiFi), browse the web, stream, etc. etc. After having that, I would not be interested in a plain e-reader, but instead would be looking for a tablet that does e-reading.

[Edited on November 18, 2010 at 8:52 PM. Reason : ]

11/18/2010 8:50:01 PM

my wife loves the kindle - she has the previous model from the one that is out now - she reads a ton and for long trips it's great to be able to just carry her kindle instead of multiple books

i think ncsuwolfy may be the resident nook person

11/18/2010 11:34:11 PM

i do have a nook. i got it right after xmas last year

i get the ipad argument but for a serious reader, there is no comparison-- you have to have an e-reader!

i haven't played with a kindle much. the main selling point on the nook for me is that i can borrow books from my library on it and i can also lend books among other nook users

it should be a low-feature device imo.

11/19/2010 12:47:07 AM

The Nook Color comes out soon (well, today, the 19th) but I'm unsure of that. of course, it's also a hell of a lot more expensive.

I guess I'm trying to make a case for a Nook Wi-Fi over a Kindle Wi-fi right now.

11/19/2010 2:02:58 AM

yeah, if you are a big reader (someone who is never without a book and who has to take several when they travel because they go through them so quickly), there is simply no comparison between an e-reader and an ipad

the cheapest ipad with wifi and 3g is something around $680 after tax, yes? that's more than 3.5 times the cost of the 3g kindle and the ipad doesn't do for an e-reader nearly as well as the nook or the kindle (especially if you like to read outside and/or for long periods of time like i do)

granted, it does more and it does come with the priceless apple product badge of pride that you can wear when you whip it out, but for the extra $490 (if kindle 3g, which i'd take over the nook 3g), i'd much rather carry both an e-reader and quality netbook because they'll both perform better at their particular tasks than the ipad

i took an e-reader and netbook on my 2-week honeymoon in europe and i can say from experience (with an understanding of the limitations the ipad) that there is no way the ipad would have been able to serve the purpose of both...so i spent less money, got more functionality, and the only downside was a little weight and space

Quote :

"I guess I'm trying to make a case for a Nook Wi-Fi over a Kindle Wi-fi right now."

having used both, the ONLY thing the nook has going for it is epub support...which, admittedly, is a big deal for me...but unless you have to have color (and are willing to sacrifice battery life and readability of the screen), i think the kindle 3g is the winner

the nook color is more comparable to an ipad than kindle 3g, IMO

[Edited on November 19, 2010 at 8:47 AM. Reason : .]

11/19/2010 8:45:02 AM

^which in my opinion is how they all will eventually evolve into. There simply is not a big enou market to spend hundreds of bucks on an electronic book device that can't do anything else.

As for the Apple thing, I personally hate the Apple iCrap badges they give to everything, and the way they censor many apps that they don't like. The only reason I mention the iPad is that it is the first device that does what a tablet should, and last all day doing it. Once HP or another manufacturer comes out with a great Android baased tablet, I will probably be more in favor of that. My argument was more e-reader vs. tablet instead of APPLE IPAD PWNS ALL kinda fanboy shit.

11/19/2010 9:37:37 AM

Quote :

"i get the ipad argument but for a serious reader, there is no comparison-- you have to have an e-reader!"

As a serious reader, I prefer an iPad. I get access to 3 different bookstores plus all of the free stuff out there. It's also easier on my eyes as I'm bad to keep reading when the light is too low and strain my eyes too much doing so. The iPad's backlighting means that I can keep reading regardless of the light. Of course I'm Also not one of those people that get noticeable eye strain from the LCD screen. That is a definite downside for some people. For me it was a question of having to carry too much on trips and the iPad let me consolidate (I despise netbooks).

Regardless the guy isn't looking at ipad's so I don't think its a good suggestion. Most people looking to spend $200 on an ereader aren't interested in what else they can do if they spend 150% more. Get the kindle. Nook is now a dying device and the experience is just not as good IMO.

11/19/2010 9:53:52 AM

Quote :

"There simply is not a big enou market to spend hundreds of bucks on an electronic book device that can't do anything else."

i assume you're referring to the nook color (serious question, i'm not trying to be argumentative)? because the kindle 3g is $190 with free shipping and no taxes, so it's less than "hundreds" (a technicality, i agree)...and it DOES do more than just allow for reading since you can play music and surf the web...and yes, i do realize that it's not especially great at either of those, but it CAN do them and it does them reasonably well (IMO, of course)

Quote :

"The only reason I mention the iPad is that it is the first device that does what a tablet should, and last all day doing it."

yeah, i agree with this...the ipad is good at what it's made for, but it doesn't really belong in a discussion of e-readers...they're both niche products, but the ipad is more a netbook than e-reader and so the same arguments against netbooks as e-readers applies

Quote :

"It's also easier on my eyes as I'm bad to keep reading when the light is too low and strain my eyes too much doing so. The iPad's backlighting means that I can keep reading regardless of the light. Of course I'm Also not one of those people that get noticeable eye strain from the LCD screen."

i admit that i have no statistics to back it up, but i would assume that you're in the minority here

the kindle's contrast is excellent and has the added advantage of being excellent in direct sunlight, something the ipad (and every other back-lit device) suffers from...and unlike the quick fix of using a $10 LED book light for the kindle in low-light situations, there is no real solution for back-lit devices like the ipad as their issue with direct light is inherent to their design

granted, i have not used the ipad...i assume that its screen is to the same standards as most apple products, which means that in high light they're still easily viewed (which isn't always the case)...but the reflective screen and back-lit design means that direct sunlight is problematic...i'd much rather have a device that requires a light at night than one that cannot be used in direct sunlight

Quote :

"For me it was a question of having to carry too much on trips and the iPad let me consolidate (I despise netbooks)."

again, this all comes down to personal preferences, i suppose...my netbook is twice the device an ipad is and it cost less...for my uses, the ipad is simply an inferior product that provides more limitations than features

11/19/2010 10:19:14 AM

^My wife has a net book and it does good for her in the basic surfing and typing department. But I have a serious desktop gaming rig, so I do my real work on that computer, and have little desire to carry that additional bulk around with me. But when I just need to type something quick (like this message), browse the web, etc. I can whip open the iPad and do it. Plus with the streaming of Netflix and other content, it has great flexibility to me. This morning for instance it was my alarm clock, then it was my music player while I cook and eat breakfast, and now I am doing email and catching up on some work stuff while I am home today. At work I can quickly check my web based work order system, and complete work orders while I walk down the hall. And I don't have to wait for it to come out of standby mode, or worry about charging it when I get back to my desk so that it doesn't die after lunch, etc.

In the end it comes down to personal preference. I am still not on the e-reader bandwagon for one simple reason; a lot of the books I like are not available in an electronic format. Even with the flexibility the iPad gives me to use all three ebook stores, I still find many books that are not available. Until they are, I am certainly not interested in spending the additional money for a seperate e-reader unless i can eliminate my paper book collection altogether.

And one other thing that really pisses me off about e-book sales. A lot of the magazines are going to offer or already offer electronic formats of their publications, which I really like. But if magazine companies want to really do something awesome, they should give their current subscribers a way to login to their account online to verify who they are and then automatically send an electronic version for free when they purchase a subscription to the paper version. I subscribe to four magazines, and most offer an electronic version. But they are charging as much for a single issue as I paid for an entire year subscription to the paper version. I would love for PopSci to have an app that would auto download when they mail the paper version so I could read it on here, or at least go through the issue briefly to find the articles I am most interested in before it arrives. That would be a good way to get more subscribers and keep churn down, in my opinion.

11/19/2010 11:12:25 AM

^^ I don't know if I'm in the minority but agree that I'm definitely not in the majority. I also agree about the book light being a solution but so would cutting the lights on. Either way I'm still sitting there reading too long in low light before turning them on or getting the light. Glare is an issue but it's rare enough that it's problematic that it doesn't bother me much. As for the net book I'll have to politely disagree. The ones that I've owned (I've owned several before the iPad) are slower with a near unusable resolution and you often have to put up with a device that feels cheap, has a bad trackpad, and usually has worse battery life. I work in design and neither a net book or iPad will run some of my programs (though Autodesk did just release an autocad app that I haven't tried yet) so I have to do them remotely. A vertical res of 600 just plain doesn't work. But again, to each their own.

^ digital magazines are currently a joke. I have about 10 subscriptions right between industry stuff and my personal mags and most of them offer some kind of digital mag that will work with the iPad (either app or zinio). I've contacted them about switching and they can't help me because I didn't pay for my subscription through them. Instead I have to contact the people that have nothing to do with the magazines' production or distribution to see if they can help. Of course they tell me what I expect already and that they don't have anything to do with the type of sub I have. It's ridiculous.

11/19/2010 12:13:23 PM

Quote :

"The ones that I've owned (I've owned several before the iPad) are slower with a near unusable resolution and you often have to put up with a device that feels cheap, has a bad trackpad, and usually has worse battery life. I work in design and neither a net book or iPad will run some of my programs (though Autodesk did just release an autocad app that I haven't tried yet) so I have to do them remotely. A vertical res of 600 just plain doesn't work. But again, to each their own."

yeah, it's definitely a personal preference thing...my $170 netbook doesn't feel cheap, has a trackpad that's certainly no worse than any other, and gets a solid 8 hours on a battery as long as the brightness isn't maxed and i'm not watching video...also, i can't imagine being limited to 16gb of space (that's 2 days of RAW files on my honeymoon, so 16gb is completely unacceptable)...i can't imagine dropping $900 on a 64gb model

in my case, spending 25% the cost of an ipad on something just as good in most respects (and significantly better in others) just makes more sense...but as you've said, to each their own

11/19/2010 12:29:47 PM

^Maybe digital magazines that you might see on the shelf at a Food Lion, but there's a huge market for academic use--research journals, fiction journal, arts magazines (well, writing) they're all relatively low-key with the graphics and all have PDF versions, which is pretty awesome to me. I even looked a PC Gamer PDF mag on the the new Kindle, and outside of the color being zapped out of it, was still cool. For me, using it to read academic journals is going to be pretty important.

And damnit I didn't want this to be debating the use of an e-reader. We've had others threads that talk about the feasibility of a devoted e-reader compared to tablets and netbooks. I think we're all aware of e-reader, netbook, tablet alternatives people.

Personally I have what's been called the best netbook on the market, so I would not call them "cheap or underperforming", and since I have a great netbook I'm not really considering iPad. I would love one but it's not really an option for me right now (cost or practicality, not that all my reasons for wanting an e-reader are practical).



I really would like to keep it to "competitive features between e-readers", though yes I understand iPad has several advantages (but it's not an e-reader, it's a tablet alternative).

EDIT: Currently trying to find a list of magazines for Nook Color.

[Edited on November 19, 2010 at 1:04 PM. Reason : f]

11/19/2010 12:51:02 PM

^ I'm talking about digital mags as an industry. I greatly prefer them to print but the publishers haven't figured the whole thing out yet. Basically I was agreeing with and expanding on nighthawk's comments.

Also, best buy will have the nook for $99 on black Friday.

11/19/2010 6:55:44 PM

Yea, but aren't they supposed to have the older generation, not the new one?

11/19/2010 7:04:55 PM

There's only one "Nook". "Nook Color" is the new one coming out which is more of a tablet. Kindle is the one with multiple generations (3 for the Kindle and 2 for the Kindle DX).

[Edited on November 19, 2010 at 7:24 PM. Reason : .]

11/19/2010 7:24:17 PM

Oh, I could swear the regular Nook had a second generation earlier this year, guess not.

It seems to me like unless you're getting a Nook Color that the current-gen Kindle is the forerunner in terms of what most people/critics are saying. I don't know, I think I just need to go play with a Kindle.

11/19/2010 11:08:18 PM

Yeah pretty much. Go to best buy. They should have the nook, kindle 3, and at least one of the Sony models on display.

11/20/2010 7:03:59 AM

Quote :

" I'm wondering if I should just go to Best Buy and play with them. I know there's a lot of Kindle lovers on TWW, but anyone that loves a Nook? "

Keep in mind the nook can check out books at the library

11/20/2010 9:18:41 AM

Can you do the same thing with the ipad nook app?

11/21/2010 6:10:23 PM

Quote :

"i get the ipad argument but for a serious reader, there is no comparison-- you have to have an e-reader!"

Completely agree. Used both extensively. Own a Kindle 3. There's almost no comparison. I read on LCDs all day and it's still easier reading on e-ink or just actual paper.

It's pretty much a general consensus that reading goes paper>e-ink>>>LCD. Sure you CAN read on LCD and many people will argue that it's just as good as paper or e-ink but it's not.

iPad gets heavy when holding it with one hand for extended periods of time. I like reading while eating or drinking a beer. Sure you can prop the iPad up but I'm at the beach or outside too often drinking a beer and holding the Kindle, and using an iPad would be next to impossible. Not to mention worrying about damaging it. Plus the iPad looks like donkey shit in direct sunlight.

If you get a hard on for the iPad get an e-reader plus an iPad. That's what I'd do. They're completely different devices.

I mean it comes down to the Kindle being pretty much perfect for one thing. Reading books. That's all I want it to do, that's all I care about it doing. Sure if one day there's a tablet that's light, uses an e-ink technology, no glare, long battery life, etc then I'll get it but until then the Kindle is pretty much perfect. The page turns are faster than I can physically turn a page, the contrast is great, it's light, I can read it in the sun, and my parents have accounts and we share all our books.

From what I've learned there's a few types of readers:

1. People who don't read jack shit --> get iPad because it does other cool shit
2. People who read blogs/magazine/pretty pictures --> get iPad because you can do all this and get away reading small amounts
3. People who actually read, AKA:

Quote :

"yeah, if you are a big reader (someone who is never without a book and who has to take several when they travel because they go through them so quickly),"

--> these people either read physical books or have an e-reader. I have yet to find a serious reader who reads solely on an iPad (and who's actually tried out a Kindle). Sure they're out there so don't waste forum time arguing whether they are or not because I'll admit they are but they're few and far between. If you've only read on an iPad and never tried a Kindle for extended periods of time then you can't give your opinion.

The only advantage I see reading NOVELS on an iPad is having it backlit at night and I have plenty of head lamps/reading lights that eliminate this advantage.

For reading the iPad is:
too heavy
horrible outside
too expensive and big to take where I take books (i grew up reading paper backs, 9.7" /= paperback)

Kindle:
light
perfect outside
cheap
great size

11/22/2010 3:17:47 PM

I LOOOOVE my kindle. It's the generation before this, but it's still awesome. I chose it over the nook because at the time Amazon had more to offer at cheaper prices.

also:

Quote :

"the ONLY thing the nook has going for it is epub support..."

Calibre is a free program that can bulk convert files from one to another and can also manage your library. One of the few programs that asks for donations that I actually felt moved to give money to.

11/22/2010 8:15:00 PM

my wife gave me the 3G kindle for my birthday

the more i use it, the more i like it over the nook

i've already jailbroken it and installed the screensaver and fonts hacks, though it would be really cool if there was an option to set the screensaver to your current book's cover automatically

i don't know that i ever would have spent $60 on the amazon-brand leather cover and light myself (it was a gift from my parents), but i DO like it...i like that the integrated light is unobtrusive and gets its power directly from the kindle instead of requiring additional batteries...i DON'T like that it's relatively heavy and thick (which can also be good, i suppose, since it provides solid protection)...my biggest complaint is probably the elastic cord and leather tab that's use to secure the case closed because i can see it wearing out and becoming useless over time...that said, i haven't found any other cases with integrated reading lights (even if they require an extra battery)

Quote :

"Calibre is a free program that can bulk convert files from one to another and can also manage your library."

oh, i know...but that doesn't solve the problem of the kindle not supporting EPUBs and as such, not supporting my ability to check out books from the library

i get amazon's reasons for not supporting EPUB - it directly threatens their whole ebook pricing structure and they're a bit too greedy at this point in time

[Edited on November 23, 2010 at 2:03 PM. Reason : .]

11/23/2010 1:39:58 PM

I have a collection of epub books but amazon makes it so easy to purchase books and share them on one account that I just buy all my books now through Amazon. My dad just retired and reads a lot and we have similar interests so I'm on his account and just get suggestions from him about what books to read and they're already archived. It's sweet.

11/23/2010 2:24:49 PM

I didn't even realize you could jailbreak a Kindle.

11/23/2010 3:07:59 PM

Quote :

"amazon makes it so easy to purchase books"

that's my issue, though...for $9, i'd just as soon have an actual paperback...i don't have an ereader so i can get rid of my physical books, i have an ereader so i can take my books with me

i would prefer to buy the book and then "borrow" a digital copy from the library, thereby supporting the author (as opposed to borrowing without buying)

and despite the possibility of sparking a debate regarding piracy and copyright infringement, i feel ENTITLED to a digital copy if i purchase a physical book...only a tiny fraction of the cost of a paperback is the cost of materials...the rest goes to the author, editor, publisher, etc

if i can get that digital copy legally through the library (currently only available in EPUB format due its support of DRM), great...if not, then i go "borrow" one from the internet (all the while still supporting the author by paying for a copy of the book)

i suppose my point is that amazon's structure only serves annoys me, rather than forcing me to spend money on digital copies...i realize my sense of entitlement does not likely represent the average kindle owner and so their refusal to support EPUBs likely does exactly what it's meant to do: make them more money

it's obviously not a HUGE deal to me...i have a kindle because it's the best, hands-down

Quote :

"I didn't even realize you could jailbreak a Kindle."

hah, it doesn't do a whole lot...but i like being able to customize my screensaver images

[Edited on November 23, 2010 at 3:19 PM. Reason : .]

11/23/2010 3:18:45 PM

Quote :

"only a tiny fraction of the cost of a paperback is the cost of materials...the rest goes to the author, "

Yeah, I wish that was true. All of my publications are 40-50% of the profit revenue (after all materials and labor are paid) and that's apparently a very generous offer (although more common in smaller publication).




So I'm thinking about a Kindle. Jailbreaking lets you use EPUBs, right? That was the point I thought. Does Jailbreaking also let you use ebooks from Barnes & Noble or other places?

11/23/2010 3:51:24 PM

^don't need to jailbreak to read epubs. While the kindle doesn't naively read epubs you can just convert them using Calibre and transfer them to a non-jailbroken Kindle.

11/23/2010 3:56:53 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, I wish that was true. All of my publications are 40-50% of the profit revenue (after all materials and labor are paid) and that's apparently a very generous offer (although more common in smaller publication)."

wait, are you saying that (roughly) 50% of the cost of a book (to the customer) is the actual cost of manufacturing? hmmm...i might have been way off, then: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/01/business/media/01ebooks.html

Quote :

"Jailbreaking lets you use EPUBs, right?"

not yet, unfortunately...at least, the tried-and-true jailbreaking (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88004) doesn't (yet)

Quote :

"Does Jailbreaking also let you use ebooks from Barnes & Noble or other places?"

for all intents and purposes, the only format the kindle doesn't support is EPUB (which is the default format for B&N, i believe)...as noted, you can just use calibre to convert any EPUBs you have...my rant was just in regards to "borrowing" from the library because you can't download them for conversion purposes in the first place (and if you could, the DRM would provide a problem)

honestly, the only other thing the nook has going for it is a microSD slot for expanding the memory...but i'm not sure that i'll use the 4gb that's in the kindle as it is (unless i use it for music, but i suspect the kindle and nook both are only mediocre as music players go)

[Edited on November 23, 2010 at 4:07 PM. Reason : .]

11/23/2010 4:03:00 PM

Quote :

"wait, are you saying that (roughly) 50% of the cost of a book (to the customer) is the actual cost of manufacturing? "

Are you forgetting about the publisher and the distributor that all take cuts before the author sees the money? Because that's what I'm talking about. And I'm not necessarily talking about ebooks alone--not sure about the pricing model for a stand-alone ebook.

11/23/2010 7:52:16 PM

Quote :

"Are you forgetting about the publisher and the distributor that all take cuts before the author sees the money? Because that's what I'm talking about. And I'm not necessarily talking about ebooks alone--not sure about the pricing model for a stand-alone ebook."

no...my point was that the cost of JUST the physical book was very small...i realize that authors only get something like 25-30% the sale price of a book

expanding on my point, i was saying that the cost of printing and distributing a physical book was insignificant and as such, i feel entitled to a digital copy when i purchase a book (and ebooks should cost less than their physical counterparts, which they currently do not)

but i think i'm actually wrong in my assumptions...from the ny times article i posted above:

Quote :

"In the emerging world of e-books, many consumers assume it is only logical that publishers are saving vast amounts by not having to print or distribute paper books, leaving room to pass along those savings to their customers. Publishers largely agree, which is why in negotiations with Apple, five of the six largest publishers of trade books have said they would price most digital editions of new fiction and nonfiction books from $12.99 to $14.99 on the forthcoming iPad tablet — significantly lower than the average $26 price for a hardcover book. But publishers also say consumers exaggerate the savings and have developed unrealistic expectations about how low the prices of e-books can go. Yes, they say, printing costs may vanish, but a raft of expenses that apply to all books, like overhead, marketing and royalties, are still in effect. All of which raises the question: Just how much does it actually cost to produce a printed book versus a digital one? Publishers differ on how they account for various costs, but a composite, and necessarily simplified, picture might look like this, according to interviews with executives at several major houses: On a typical hardcover, the publisher sets a suggested retail price. Let’s say it is $26. The bookseller will generally pay the publisher $13. Out of that gross revenue, the publisher pays about $3.25 to print, store and ship the book, including unsold copies returned to the publisher by booksellers. For cover design, typesetting and copy-editing, the publisher pays about 80 cents. Marketing costs average around $1 but may go higher or lower depending on the title. Most of these costs will deline on a per-unit basis as a book sells more copies. Let’s not forget the author, who is generally paid a 15 percent royalty on the hardcover price, which on a $26 book works out to $3.90. For big best-selling authors — and even occasionally first-time writers whose publishers have taken a risk — the author’s advance may be so large that the author effectively gets a higher slice of the gross revenue. Publishers generally assume they will write off a portion of many authors’ advances because they are not earned back in sales. Without accounting for such write-offs, the publisher is left with $4.05, out of which it must pay overhead for editors, cover art designers, office space and electricity before taking a profit. Now let’s look at an e-book. Under the agreements with Apple, the publishers will set the consumer price and the retailer will act as an agent, earning a 30 percent commission on each sale. So on a $12.99 e-book, the publisher takes in $9.09. Out of that gross revenue, the publisher pays about 50 cents to convert the text to a digital file, typeset it in digital form and copy-edit it. Marketing is about 78 cents. The author’s royalty — a subject of fierce debate between literary agents and publishing executives — is calculated among some of the large trade publishers as 25 percent of the gross revenue, while others are calculating it off the consumer price. So on a $12.99 e-book, the royalty could be anywhere from $2.27 to $3.25. All that leaves the publisher with something ranging from $4.56 to $5.54, before paying overhead costs or writing off unearned advances. At a glance, it appears the e-book is more profitable. But publishers point out that e-books still represent a small sliver of total sales, from 3 to 5 percent. If e-book sales start to replace some hardcover sales, the publishers say, they will still have many of the fixed costs associated with print editions, like warehouse space, but they will be spread among fewer print copies. Moreover, in the current print model, publishers can recoup many of their costs, and start to make higher profits, on paperback editions. If publishers start a new e-book’s life at a price similar to that of a paperback book, and reduce the price later, it may be more difficult to cover costs and support new authors. Another reason publishers want to avoid lower e-book prices is that print booksellers like Barnes & Noble, Borders and independents across the country would be unable to compete. As more consumers buy electronic readers and become comfortable with reading digitally, if the e-books are priced much lower than the print editions, no one but the aficionados and collectors will want to buy paper books. “If you want bookstores to stay alive, then you want to slow down this movement to e-books,” said Mike Shatzkin, chief executive of the Idea Logical Company, a consultant to publishers. “The simplest way to slow down e-books is not to make them too cheap.” In many ways, the $12.99-$14.99 price bracket for e-books is an experiment. With it, the publishers seem to have beaten back, for the moment, the $9.99 price that Amazon has offered for Kindle versions of most new releases and best sellers, but it remains to be seen whether consumers will tolerate that. Music prices, for example, have come under significant pressure in the digital age: from 2000 to 2009, the price of audio discs, tapes and other media, which includes digitized music, fell a little more than 3 percent, according to the federal Consumer Price Index. Prices of so-called recreational books, meanwhile, have increased just over 6 percent during that same period. Certainly, publishers argue that it would be difficult to sustain a vibrant business on much lower prices. Margins would be squeezed, and it would become more difficult to nurture new authors. “Most of the time these people are probably not going to make huge sums of money the first time they publish,” said Carolyn Reidy, chief executive of Simon & Schuster. In fact, the industry is based on the understanding that as much as 70 percent of the books published will make little or no money at all for the publisher once costs are paid. Some of these books are by writers who are experimenting with form or genre, or those who just do not have recognizable names. “You’re less apt to take a chance on an important first novel if you don’t have the profit margin on the volume of the big books,” said Lindy Hess, director of the Columbia Publishing Course, a program that trains young aspirants for jobs in the publishing industry. “The truth about this business is that, with rare exceptions, nobody makes a great deal of money.” For many authors, pricing is a thicket of confusion. “None of us know what books cost. None of us know what kind of profits hardcover or paperback publishers make,” said Anne Rice, the author of “Interview With a Vampire” and the “Songs of the Seraphim” series. She said she did not know whether publishers had struck the right price for e-books. “For all I know, a million books at $9.99 might be great for an author,” Ms. Rice said. “The only thing I think is a mistake is people trying to hold back e-books or Kindle and trying to head off this revolution by building a dam. It’s not going to work.”"

[Edited on November 24, 2010 at 8:18 AM. Reason : article]

11/24/2010 8:07:49 AM

ah...so you CAN use EPUBs on a kindle 3: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107371

since i've never checked out digital books from the library, though, i don't know if this will allow for that (which is my only reason for caring about EPUB support)

11/24/2010 9:15:47 AM

If you're open to "older" tech then Amazon is selling the Kindle 2 for $89 starting at noon on Friday. It's limited numbers and when I compared my K3 to my Dad's K2, I really preferred the 3. That said, $50 would have possibly changed my mind.

http://gizmodo.com/5698212/amazon-black-friday-kindle-2-for-89

11/24/2010 10:28:54 AM

if anyone has a kindle and is interested in dual-booting WITHOUT jailbreaking OR removing/damaging/hacking the vanilla kindle OS, there is duokan

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105847

http://flip.netzbeben.de/2010/11/duokan-available-with-english-gui-today/

it's only been around for about 3 weeks, apparently, so i'll probably give it a bit of time before giving it a shot (and i still don't know if i can borrow digital books from the library)...but it's out there

11/24/2010 2:55:36 PM

Quote :

"since i've never checked out digital books from the library, though, i don't know if this will allow for that (which is my only reason for caring about EPUB support)"

do your research before hanging your hat on checking out ebooks from your library. not all libraries do it (houston, where i live, does because its a freakin metropolis and we have the population to support it but many smaller libraries aren't there yet)

even with the ability through my library membership, my options for ebooks are still limited. just because an ebook exists doesn't mean my library has opted to buy a copy (or two) and that is another thing, if there are only a few copies the library has purchased rights for, that means you might have to wait for other users to finish their 2 week lending period, or return the book early (which requires you to open the program and do it, can't do it from the nook)

as for screensavers, the nook allows you to upload screensavers of your choice and also backgrounds/wallpapers. its easy and i think its fun to use a personal picture as my wallpaper vs a generic image. they also put out special screensavers, for example they released an alice in wonderland version when the movie was coming out

and this black friday kindle deal has my interest... my mom reads books faster than anyone i know and has a MAJOR book storage problem. shes an awesome candidate for an e-reader and for under $100 i'd be willing to take the risk on getting her an earlier generation model..hmm thanks for posting that!


OH and what i came to this thread to actually post.... with the nook you can go to any B&N store and read any book (well "any" meaning any publisher which agreed, but i haven't found any books that weren't available so the selection is very wide) in store for free for an hour. its a neat way to hang out and kill some time or spend a lazy afternoon. when i was waiting for the last book in a series i was reading to become available at the library i went to B&N a few times to start the book because i was so excited to finish it. i just bought some coffee at the starbucks and hung out for an hour. i enjoy the option

11/26/2010 12:31:33 AM

i think you can still get the refurbished nook 3G for $86

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2416191

for $100 less than the kindle 3G, it's a pretty good deal, IMO...though i didn't realize that you can't use the 3G for web browsing (which would be a deal breaker for me, since i don't see the point of having 3G if you can't surf teh intarwebs even using a slow browser and e-ink screen)

[Edited on November 26, 2010 at 11:12 AM. Reason : .]

11/26/2010 11:10:08 AM

So, I finally went and had an extended play with some top e-readers. I tested out the Nook Color, Nook Wi-Fi, Kindle 3 Wi-Fi, and some Sony e-reader that was more expensive and not very good.

I'd played with a regular Nook before. It's fun after I played even 15 minutes with the Kindle I couldn't bring comparison. I know it's a newer device, but the Kindle 3 was considerably faster, smoother, and I appreciated having a hard home and back button. The Nook felt really unwieldy and it was hard to know if it was responding to my touch sometimes.

Nook and Kindle 3 were kind of ruined in my mind after playing with the Nook Color though. Nook Color is lightning fast, the picture was amazing, and the sample magazines were a ton of fun read. The browser was fast and I read some new updates on CNN with ease (and in great resolution). I'm seriously considering it, even though I have a pretty strict personal policy about electronic devices in their first generation (if you consider the Nook Color a separate product line, and I do).

11/26/2010 2:45:22 PM

^ realize, though, that with the nook color, you're really talking about a cheaper alternative to an ipad as opposed to an ebook reader...i think that the problem with the nook color is that you sacrifice everything that makes a "real" ereader so awesome (high-contrast/low-glare e-ink screen and subsequently spectacular battery life) and lose that which makes the ipad so awesome (great screen, flexibility, reasonably powerful for what it is, reasonably good battery life)

it's an okay in-between device, i guess, but you're still getting a lot of glare because of the touchscreen, battery life that's worse than both ereaders AND the ipad, and something less functional than an ipad (but more so than an ereader)

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/16/nook-color-review/

*shrug*

Quote :

"o your research before hanging your hat on checking out ebooks from your library. not all libraries do it (houston, where i live, does because its a freakin metropolis and we have the population to support it but many smaller libraries aren't there yet)"

wake county does...their selection looks pretty good, but i haven't really searched for anything, yet

http://wakegov.lib.overdrive.com/FEA60061-A7DF-43B4-B454-3637AEBE7F90/10/637/en/Default.htm

[Edited on November 26, 2010 at 6:08 PM. Reason : the review says it lacks 3G, too...not worth $270 after tax, IMO]

11/26/2010 6:00:37 PM

out of stock!

11/26/2010 6:10:23 PM

Almost picked up the Nook for 73 shipped, but the 10 off paypal coupon didn't work on my account. I decided not to pull the trigger @83. :/

11/26/2010 7:39:02 PM

^^I don't very much agree with the shortcomings from the iPad, and I've read plenty of good reviews. It's a good "e-reader focused tablet alternative"--obviously an iPad is way better though in terms of tablet performance, but the Nook Color still has a market and for me I like it.

And the lack of 3G doesn't bother me in the slightest, I have no intention to need 3G even if I had an iPad. I live in Raleigh and commute to campus and downtown--it's the most wired city in America. There's free wi-fi everywhere. I'm really just not worried about needing 3G.

11/26/2010 7:59:12 PM

Question: on the Kindle 3G, is web browsing still free in 100 countries? I know the web browser sucks, is slow and painful to use on an e-ink display, but free lifetime web access sounds well worth the $50 premium. Any Kindle 3G owners wish to verify this? If you are willing to suffer, could you check your gmail in Berlin?

11/27/2010 9:22:09 AM

^3G browsing is possible on it. I have no idea whether it's still worldwide or not though (not sure whether you'll find any wolfwebbers overseas that also happen to have a k3).

11/27/2010 10:37:07 AM

Quote :

"I don't very much agree with the shortcomings from the iPad, and I've read plenty of good reviews."

well, i don't know that you have to agree with me, but my points aren't opinions, they're facts...the ipad simply cannot compete WITH an ereader AS an ereader, its biggest losing points being the awful glare (LCD-induced eye strain aside, because it doesn't affect me) and comparatively awful battery life (again, i'm only talking about it from an ereader standpoint)...from what i've read, the nook color has less glare than an ipad, but it still can't compete with an e-ink screen (again, this isn't opinion, it's simple fact)...it also has worse battery life than both the k3 and an ipad

you won't find any reviews that refute these points...the best you'll come up with are people saying they're willing to deal with the glare and lesser battery life for what the devices offer (and the hefty price tag that comes with the nook color, or significantly heftier price tag that comes with the ipad)

i'm not trying to be argumentative...when it's all said and done, it comes down to whether or not the user is happy...i read outside on the regular and i don't like having to charge my device every couple of days (real-world of 8 hours on the ipad and 5-6 on the nook color is just unacceptable, IMO), so pricing aside, the nook color and ipad are simply inferior (to me)

Quote :

"Question: on the Kindle 3G, is web browsing still free in 100 countries? I know the web browser sucks, is slow and painful to use on an e-ink display, but free lifetime web access sounds well worth the $50 premium. Any Kindle 3G owners wish to verify this? If you are willing to suffer, could you check your gmail in Berlin?"

yes, the worldwide free 3G is still part of the kindle

having used the browser a number of times, i can honestly say that i like the added convenience...yes, it's painfully slow (better than dial-up, though!) and he e-ink screen makes it a chore...i'd say the biggest disadvantage is the lack of something like a touchpad

that said, i'm very happy to have spent the extra $50 on the lifetime 3G...even though it's far from slick, and even if i never take it out of the country (though i wish i had had it on my honeymoon!), just being able to get internet to check email and perhaps look up phone number or directions or whatever is worth it (i don't have a smart phone and won't for at least another 10 months until my contract is up for renewal)

[Edited on November 27, 2010 at 11:10 AM. Reason : .]

11/27/2010 11:06:44 AM

I use my iPad 24/7 and it goes 16 hours + a day with never once hitting the "Low Battery" point.

Charging is not a big deal either. Just hook it up when I go to bed, as it is my alarm clock, and its ready to roll next morning. But again, I can't justify spending $500 on this and spending the extra cash to carry a separate device just to read books on. I never read outside and the eye strain is no issue to me.

11/27/2010 12:26:18 PM

Quote :

"I use my iPad 24/7 and it goes 16 hours + a day with never once hitting the "Low Battery" point."

i certainly mean no offense, but unless you're not DOING anything with it, the backlight is on its lowest setting, and the wireless is off, you're not getting 16+ hours

there are testimonials all over teh intarwebs of people getting 11-12 hours with moderately low use (ie. nothing processor intensive) and the backlight on its lowest setting...this is more than the 10 hours apple gives in its specs

but there are just as many people getting 5-6 hours with "real world" usage, with a mixture of processor intensive and inane tasks

Quote :

"Charging is not a big deal either. Just hook it up when I go to bed, as it is my alarm clock, and its ready to roll next morning."

again, it's all about what you're doing with it...it works well for you to do this, but i would much prefer to charge mine once every 3 weeks, rather than once a day (given what i'm using it for, that is)

to each their own...as has been noted, the ipad vs ereader debate has been done and the ipad simply can't compete AS an ereader...the nook color has the same disadvantages, but in a smaller package and with fewer features...it has the advantage, though, of being priced competitively while the ipad is not

*shrug*

11/27/2010 7:21:43 PM

^Lowest I've seen is basically 6 hours when gizmodo tested it. People often get 11-12 hours straight on video during tests. Real life usage is 8+ (sure as hell not 5).

While we're being realistic, you're not reading much if you charge every 3 weeks. I was charging every 3-5 days with the k3 an it get better life than the k2 or my nook. Moving from 3-5 days to 1-2 days is really not a big deal IMO.

Also, we get it. The iPad is not as good an e-reader as an actual e-reader for many people. Nobody is arguing that it is. For some of us it's just as good. It also often a better value (multi-use device vs. Single use or bulk of multiples). The value of both is getting worse IMO with the intro of the nook color.

[Edited on November 27, 2010 at 8:06 PM. Reason : .]

11/27/2010 8:05:19 PM

@quagmire02

I don't know what reviews you're reading, the only bad ones I saw were speculative articles from before it came out. The Engadget review for it was still overall positive, and there's been several articles questioning that the Nook Color, as an Android Tablet, may be a huge competitor for the iPad. But you're right, it's not a proper e-reader competitor because (in Engadget's words) it "broke the silent vow between e-readers to keep the technology centered on long-term availability and niche service", not multi-purpose.

But I really don't care because I don't want either. Well, I wanted a Nook Color for about 24 hours, but now I'm back to not caring about it. You're right that for a dedicated e-reader it's just not the same. I'm back to wanting a Kindle (3) Wi-Fi now, the practicality, price and quality makes a lot more sense.

Right now I'm looking into how fesible it is to use the Kindle experimental browser to get to some PDF files and journals I read (research journals, articles, library reserve files).

11/27/2010 8:06:24 PM