Recently, I mentioned that it is the inevitable path of all governments to become tyrannical and oppressive of the people, that some actions may delay this, but nothing could stop it. Over the past week, we've had an excellent example of what happens when we give the government powers and surrender our liberty for "safety"

http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=13526724

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35498347/UCSF-letter-to-Holdren-concerning-health-risks-of-full-body-scanner-TSA-screenings-4-6-2010

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/11/16/5477568-are-airport-x-ray-scanners-harmful

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13534628

http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/these-events-took-place-roughly-between.html

Quote :

"She described to me that because I had opted out of the backscatter screening, I would now be patted down, and that involved running hands up the inside of my legs until they felt my groin. I stated that I would not allow myself to be subject to a molestation as a condition of getting on my flight. The supervisor informed me that it was a standard administrative security check and that they were authorized to do it. I repeated that I felt what they were doing was a sexual assault, and that if they were anyone but the government, the act would be illegal. "

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/15/tsa-probe-scan-resistor/

Quote :

"In the end, security escorted Tyner out of the airport, after American Airlines refunded his ticket. According to Aguilar, Tyner is under investigation for leaving the security area without permission. "

If you don't submit, we'll punish you.

Quote :

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Oh, and we just renewed the "national emergency". Are we feeling safer yet?

If you're planning on traveling this holiday season, may I suggest avoiding flying, and canceling any tickets you may have already? Be sure to let the airlines know exactly why they've lost your business.

And if you can't avoid flying, be sure to budget plenty of extra time so you can opt out.

11/19/2010 1:48:57 PM

Quote :

""She described to me that because I had opted out of the backscatter screening, I would now be patted down, and that involved running hands up the inside of my legs until they felt my groin. I stated that I would not allow myself to be subject to a molestation as a condition of getting on my flight. The supervisor informed me that it was a standard administrative security check and that they were authorized to do it. I repeated that I felt what they were doing was a sexual assault, and that if they were anyone but the government, the act would be illegal. ""

As far as I know, it is illegal isn't it? Has a judge ruled that government employees are allowed to touch your sexual organs without express consent? If someone grabs my junk and I didn't ask for it I'm calling the cops.

11/19/2010 1:52:27 PM

According to the TSA, you gave consent the moment you bought your ticket.

11/19/2010 1:58:16 PM

Quote :

"tyrannical and oppressive of the people"

Actually, I don't think you know what tyranny and oppression are. There are governments that will hang you, stone you, or imprison you, simply for making a joke, that's oppression and tyranny, a screening and a pat down are simply examples of first world problems. Stop hyping this up.

[Edited on November 19, 2010 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ]

11/19/2010 2:32:37 PM

Quote :

"According to the TSA, you gave consent the moment you bought your ticket."

Citation?

11/19/2010 2:49:51 PM

Quote :

"Actually, I don't think you know what tyranny and oppression are. "

I do know what they are, and I know that we are not there yet. That doesn't make me any less concerned over where we're going or why we happen to be in a hand basket.

Quote :

"There are governments that will hang you, stone you, or imprison you, simply for making a joke,"

What if they arrest you because you have the wrong language or words written on your flash cards?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/10/arabic.flash.card.suit/

Or, if they arrest you for making a joke while they search you?

http://reason.com/archives/2004/02/01/dominate-intimidate-control

Quote :

"On August 2, 2002, a screener at Hartford's Bradley International Airport poked through the wallet of Fred Hubbell, an 80-year-old World War II combat veteran who had already undergone two full searches in that airport that morning. "What do you expect to find in there, a rifle?" the exasperated Hubbell asked. He was then arrested for "causing a public disturbance" and fined $78. Dana Cosgrove, the TSA airport security chief, later justified the arrest on the grounds that "all that the people around him in the waiting room heard was the word rifle.""

How about if you look at them wrong?

Quote :

"After the flight landed, the marshals nailed another terrorist suspect: a physician and retired U.S. Army major named Robert Rajcoomar. He was handcuffed and taken into custody because, as TSA spokesman David Steigman later explained it, he "had been observing too closely." Rajcoomar had been sitting in first class quietly reading and drinking a beer until the marshals dumped the allegedly unruly passenger from coach class into the adjacent seat. Rajcoomar told the Inquirer: "One [marshal] sat on the guy....he was groaning, and the more he groaned, the more they twisted the handcuffs." Rajcoomar asked the stewardess for permission to move to another seat in first class; she told him to take one of the seats the marshals had vacated. When the plane landed, Rajcoomar recalled, "One of these marshals came down to me and said, 'Head down, hands over your head!' They pushed my head down, told me to bend down." Rajcoomar said one of the marshals told him, "We didn't like the way you looked" and "We didn't like the way you looked at us." He was locked up in a filthy cell for three hours before being released without charges. His wife was left to roam the Philadelphia airport, not knowing what had happened to her husband."

What if you simply refuse to discuss your income with them?

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/01/ex-green_beret_and_war_corresp.php


No, we're not at the point of true tyranny and oppression, but no oppressive government was made in a day either. Oppressive governments are the boiling water to the our frog.

I leave you with a reminder of one of the many reasons we went to war previously:

Quote :

"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance."

------------------------------------------------

Quote :

"Citation?"

Quote :

"When he tried to assert his rights, Tyner was told by a TSA supervisor on tape, “By buying your ticket you gave up a lot of rights.”"

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/15/tsa-probe-scan-resistor/


[Edited on November 19, 2010 at 3:25 PM. Reason : dgh]

11/19/2010 3:21:46 PM

There was an article yesterday, about how NYC was going to start using eye recognition to track those previously arrested. Kind of like a high tech finger-print. Guess this could be a stepping stone.

11/19/2010 3:24:46 PM

While totalitarian tyranny is inevitable, I don't see it within my lifetime. As for this particular problem, the federalist process is starting to work, as several states and cities are already rushing to opt out of the TSA apparatchiks, as the federal legislation creating the TSA allows.

11/19/2010 3:28:38 PM

Quote :

"No, we're not at the point of true tyranny and oppression"

So when you said this was a great example of tyranny and oppression, you may have been overstating it?

Stating some kind of inevitible path to oppression is not adequately supported by a few examples of crap that is only considered oppression in the first world.

11/19/2010 3:31:21 PM

Quote :

"So when you said this was a great example of tyranny and oppression, you may have been overstating it?"

I would have been, if I had ever said those words. But I didn't, so I wasn't.

Quote :

"Stating some kind of inevitible path to oppression is not adequately supported by a few examples of crap that is only considered oppression in the first world."

So the argument is that we should be ok with invasive and oppressive government actions and agents merely because other more oppressed people would find it to be a relief to only face an $11k fine for obeying the government's orders rather than life imprisonment?

11/19/2010 3:36:33 PM

Quote :

"I would have been, if I had ever said those words. But I didn't, so I wasn't."

This statement certainly implies it.
I mentioned that it is the inevitable path of all governments to become tyrannical and oppressive of the people, that some actions may delay this, but nothing could stop it. Over the past week, we've had an excellent example of what happens when we give the government powers and surrender our liberty for "safety"

Quote :

"So the argument is that we should be ok with invasive and oppressive government actions and agents merely because other more oppressed people would find it to be a relief to only face an $11k fine for obeying the government's orders rather than life imprisonment?"

No, the argument is that you are making this out to be a way bigger deal than it is. We have had small things like this happen since the creation of our country, and every time there was someone like you shouting that it would just inevitability lead to a police state.

I'm not saying this stuff isn't bad, I agree that it is, but stop trying to make it out to be some Orwellean nightmare, it's not, and stop trying to link it with some made up "path to tyranny", it's cliched.

11/19/2010 5:38:05 PM

It did lead to a police state. That's what we're living in. The people that voiced concerns in the past were right.

Tyranny rarely happens overnight. It happens gradually, and is only made possible by complacent citizens (hey, that's you!)

[Edited on November 19, 2010 at 6:08 PM. Reason : ]

11/19/2010 6:06:22 PM

Quote :

"It did lead to a police state. That's what we're living in."

We're living in a police state? 1984 made it seem a lot worse, that Eric Blair is full of shit.

Quote :

"Tyranny rarely happens overnight."

No, it pretty much always happens overnight. In fact all of the most tyrannical states I can think of off of the head all happened with quick either violent or non-violent revolutions. Hitler, Stalin, Pinochet, Mao, all came into power with a few years. The path out of tyranny is sometimes longer, but into it, historically has been very short.

11/19/2010 6:22:07 PM

if only 1984 were the only way there could be a police state, then you might have a point

11/19/2010 9:46:26 PM

this is making news because now it's middle and upper class people being groped by the authorities for no good reason.

11/19/2010 9:52:25 PM

^^if only there was another kind of implication you were trying to make, you might have a point

11/20/2010 2:32:17 AM

^
So much fail.

11/20/2010 8:30:12 AM

Herp

11/20/2010 11:02:31 AM