Not just any particular party, position, or person, but at this point I feel the whole state has earned a credibility watch thread.

I just saw this about this meeting they posted about yesterday:
http://palmettorepublic.org/2010/11/inaugural-charleston-area-chapter-meeting/

From their website:

Quote :

"Last time South Carolina tried secession, it didn't go so well. How can we be sure that there will be a different result this time? There's nothing in this life that we can be sure of, except when it comes to concepts and principles. The concept of liberty and freedom is worth the risks of independence. If you were a prisoner of some gang, would you just throw your hands up in defeat and be their slave? Or would you do everything you can to be freed? The US Government is nothing but a gang and we are its prisoners."

Quote :

"The Palmetto Republic was the first ever constitutional republic on the North American continent, which was created by South Carolina when its constitution went into effect in March of 1776. Before the Declaration of Independence was even a rough draft, South Carolina had broken free of the British Empire and created their own government. We have a reputation, of sorts, in that department, and again on December 20, 1860 we declared our independence until February 8, 1861 when we joined the Confederate States of America. Well, today we have a new empire, the Federal Government of the United States of America, and a new mission: The peaceable return of political independence to the people of South Carolina. Washington, D.C. reaches directly into the lives of our citizens, in direct violation of the Constitution and of the Declaration of Independence. Our goal is to restore control of our government and of our lives, first through a process of Nullification and if that fails, Secession."

http://www.taxfoundation.org/press/show/22659.html
These are 2005 numbers, but if I'm reading it right, South Carolina gets back $1.35 for every dollar it puts in. (Someone double check I'm reading that right). So if they manage to secede, it seems like they'll be saving everyone else who has been paying in to help their state stay afloat.


Some past highlights that helped make me feel the entire state deserved a credibility watch.
----

The GOP Lt Governor says the darndest things:
"don't feed them strays, they breedin' an shit"
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=586951&page=1

The most recent Dem senate candidate out of left field:
"SC Senate Nominee (D) a surprise - how did he win?"
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=596559

And of course the missing GOP governor who turned out to be hiking the Appalachian Trail:
"South Carolina Governor is MIA"
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=569426



Then there was this:
"South Carolina is so gay"
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=533763

Quote :

""Family friendly" is travel-ese for "boring and full of fat asses in stretchy pants." How's that for fucked-up marketing?"

Quote :

"One interesting fact I did learn about Myrtle Beach is that because of obscure/stupid/bigoted laws they are required to call their gay bars "piano bars.""

"Senator Lindsey Graham is Gay?"
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=593286&page=2

Quote :

"During the Sanford scandal in South Carolina all the GOPs starting calling the Lt Gov gay to try to keep him from ascending. Its a fairly routine smear campaign among conservatives to call someone gay as a part of party infighting."

Please share any news stories or personal experiences with South Carolina that could add to this credibility watch.

11/22/2010 3:04:05 AM

Mustard-based BBQ sauce is dubious at best.

11/22/2010 9:20:16 AM

11/22/2010 9:36:08 AM

Not to take away from pryderi's new thread, I just wanted to add it to the index of the follies of SC here

"S.C Man Accused of Threatening to Shoot Obama"
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=605440

11/26/2010 9:11:18 PM

http://www.fitsnews.com/2011/01/13/haley-approves-huge-salary-increases/

"Haley Approves Huge Salary Increases"

Quote :

"With her state facing an estimated $1 billion budget shortfall, S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley handed out huge salary increases to top gubernatorial staffers on her first full day in office. She also doled out big salaries to newly-created positions within the governor’s office."

Quote :

"Haley started things off by giving her new chief of staff, Tim Pearson, a 27.5 percent pay raise. Pearson will make $125,000 a year – or $27,000 more than Scott English made while serving as chief of staff to former Gov. Mark Sanford. Pearson will also have a full-time assistant who makes $60,000 a year. Haley’s deputy chief of staff for communications and legislative affairs – Trey Walker – will be paid $122,775 a year. That’s a 42.3 percent increase over the second-highest paid staffer in the Sanford administration. Haley’s top lawyer, Swati Patel, will be paid $102,000 a year – which is a 36 percent increase over the $75,000 a year that Sanford paid his top lawyer. Haley’s other two deputy chiefs of staff, former Rep. Ted Pitts (policy and cabinet affairs) and Katherine Haltiwanger (operations) will be paid $90,000 and $80,000 a year, respectively. Sanford’s office had just one employee who made a six figure salary – Mark Sanford ($106,078). That salary is set by law and will not change – meaning Haley will also be paid $106,078 a year. The Haley staff salaries – which were obtained by the Associated Press – showed increases of varying size up and down the executive staff roster."

1/19/2011 6:33:49 AM

I was gonna post the Palmetto State Armory's special edition Joe Wilson AR-15 something or other engraved with "You Lie" but i dont remember where i found it and don't care to look.

just consider it noted.

1/19/2011 6:34:01 PM

Quote :

"S.C. woman says she killed dog after it chewed her Bible A South Carolina woman who allegedly confessed to hanging a pit bull from a tree and then burning it told police the dog had chewed her Bible, according to a media report. Miriam Fowler Smith, 65, of Pacolet Mills, South Carolina, was arrested and faces a felony count of ill treatment of animals in general, according to an article on the website of WSPA-TV. The dog belonged to Smith's nephew, Andy Fowler. Smith told officers she killed the dog after it chewed on her bible and that she was afraid children in the neighborhood could be bitten by the animal, according to a police report obtained by WSPA-TV. Authorities found the animal's remains under a mound of grass on the Smith property, an orange drop cord around its neck and the scent of kerosene on its body. Smith was arrested Sunday in this town about 13 miles east of Spartanburg, and taken to the Spartanburg County Detention Center."

thanks, CC

1/24/2011 5:09:10 PM

I'm actually kind of impressed a 65 year old lady could hang up a pitbull. But I guess people in SC are pretty good at hanging things...

1/24/2011 5:25:52 PM

it was probably a sweet compliant dog, like most pit bull terriers.

1/24/2011 5:30:38 PM

you right

1/24/2011 6:45:08 PM

Quote :

"If you were a prisoner of some gang, would you just throw your hands up in defeat and be their slave? Or would you do everything you can to be freed? The US Government is nothing but a gang and we are its prisoners.""

I agree completely with the last line. The vast majority of people would just give up and be a slave, though. That's what it means to be a citizen of a country. If you're born here and have no means to leave, and happen to disagree with the laws or what your money is spent on, well...too bad. The rest of society (read: the people that vote, the politicians they vote for, and the corporations that pay for those politician's re-election) has decided what system you will live under. The problem for any South Carolinians looking to secede is that without the protections provided by the federal government (as outlined in the Constitution), they would live under even more oppressive rule, because it's South Carolina, and the people running the state government are fundamentalists.

1/24/2011 7:57:11 PM

Do you know who else agrees?

1/24/2011 8:19:25 PM

d357r0y3r must be a troll. I've suspected it for some time, but now I'm sure.

There's no other way somebody could quote that line and not point out the irony of these people comparing themselves to slaves.

1/24/2011 9:03:29 PM

Quote :

"If you're born here and have no means to leave, and happen to disagree with the laws or what your money is spent on, well...too bad."

Funny that you have so much sympathy for someone who doesn't have the means to move (as if walking costs money) yet you most likely have no sympathy for those who can't afford healthcare.

1/24/2011 9:14:40 PM

Quote :

"d357r0y3r must be a troll. I've suspected it for some time, but now I'm sure. There's no other way somebody could quote that line and not point out the irony of these people comparing themselves to slaves."

That's not irony. They want to secede now for entirely different reasons than the people that wanted to secede in the run up to the Civil War.

Quote :

"Funny that you have so much sympathy for someone who doesn't have the means to move (as if walking costs money) yet you most likely have no sympathy for those who can't afford healthcare."

Oh, I do have sympathy for those people. The issue you're talking about (skyrocketing prices for health care) is a direct result of government policy. When the tax code was changed to allow businesses to write off health benefits for their employees, an inherently inefficient third party payer system was created. There's now a disconnect, in people's minds, between their health and the cost of treatment. With basically any employer provided benefit structure, the young, healthy single employees pay the same monthly premium as the old, fat, cigarette smoking single employees. Furthermore, if an employee ever quits or gets fired, they're suddenly without health insurance, unless they're willing to pay the absurd cost of COBRA. Let's not get off topic, though.

1/24/2011 10:05:47 PM

Fine, then your lack of sympathy for those who can't pay their bills or those who can't find housing, or those who can't find a job, etc.

1/24/2011 10:30:26 PM

I extend sympathy to anyone going through hard times in life. I've been there, and I'm sure I will be there again. Our disagreement is with the means by which we, as a species, should aim to alleviate the suffering associated with humanity. You seem to be convinced that the state is an appropriate means. I've taken a look at the state, the various machinations of government, and the consequences (both human and economic), and concluded that it does more harm than good. To me, though, sympathy is not finding a person in need, going to the nearest neighbor, and demanding (at gunpoint) that they help.

1/24/2011 11:02:17 PM

Honestly, if you hate the state so much, Somalia awaits:
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

You're not a slave and you can get out.

1/25/2011 9:07:37 AM

^ shut the fuck up you freedom-hating pinko commie supporter of terror.





[Edited on January 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM. Reason : ]

1/25/2011 10:50:26 AM

Really? Somalia is within walking distance? There isn't a free country anywhere in the world, Somalia included.

1/25/2011 10:53:50 AM

Quote :

"Our disagreement is with the means by which we, as a species, should aim to alleviate the suffering associated with humanity."

SUre, I want to do something and you think that their suffering will be relieved by a certain kind of magic that, if it existed, should have prevented the suffering to begin with.

Quote :

"I've taken a look at the state, the various machinations of government, and the consequences (both human and economic), and concluded that it does more harm than good."

Then let's look at the Somalia example. They have no government, and they only have various factions, foriegn and domestic, that will force thier will on you at gunpoint. Your freedom is dependent only your ability to protect it. Doesn't that sound like your fantasyland?

1/25/2011 11:03:29 AM

Quote :

"SUre, I want to do something and you think that their suffering will be relieved by a certain kind of magic that, if it existed, should have prevented the suffering to begin with."

The market is not "magic." The atrocities perpetrated by government far outweigh the good that has been done by any welfare program.

Quote :

"Then let's look at the Somalia example. They have no government, and they only have various factions, foriegn and domestic, that will force thier will on you at gunpoint. Your freedom is dependent only your ability to protect it. Doesn't that sound like your fantasyland?"

It doesn't sound like you've read much about Somalia. First and foremost, the government in Somalia up til 1991 was a brutal, tyrannical government. Somalia was worse off with a state than without it. Siad Barre implemented what he called a "socialist" government, which ultimately lead to major unrest and the overthrow of the government. Additionally, pressure from the UN, the Western World, and the U.S. has made conditions worse.

Whenever we label the government as our "protector," we have to ask the question: who will protect us from our protectors? The answer is no one but ourselves. So, even with government, your ability to live your life as you please is dependent on your ability to protect yourself. The police will not save you from an armed robber, but they will throw you in jail for possessing marijuana.

1/25/2011 11:53:10 AM

Quote :

"Really? Somalia is within walking distance? There isn't a free country anywhere in the world, Somalia included."

There is no such thing as a free country by your definition. And I was just letting you know, you can opt out. Calling it slavery, or a mafia, or whatever other hyperbole freedom nuts love to use is made absolutely null by the ability to renounce your citizenship and leave. I don't even give a shit where you go, but since you have an opt out clause, you're welcome to use it and try your luck elsewhere.

Also, by what right do you own land? The right of ownership is as arbitrary as the right of government.

Quote :

"The police will not save you from an armed robber, but they will throw you in jail for possessing marijuana."

Actually, they will save you from an armed robber and do so on a consistent basis. People believing that news stories are the norm is the same reason mothers are paranoid their kids will be snatched up by kidnappers.

[Edited on January 25, 2011 at 12:08 PM. Reason : .]

1/25/2011 12:06:22 PM

The police have saved my ass twice, both times from situations that had a lot of potential for me to end up shot or beaten to a pulp.

Quote :

"First and foremost, the government in Somalia up til 1991 was a brutal, tyrannical government."

And for the past 20 years they've effectively had no government, and the place is a giant shit hole.

[Edited on January 25, 2011 at 1:00 PM. Reason : ]

1/25/2011 12:59:24 PM

Quote :

"The market is not "magic.""

The market does not attempt to prevent any of that suffering.

Quote :

"Somalia was worse off with a state than without it."

That's certainly debatable, it's pretty bad there right now, I struggle to think of a worse place in the world. But while that may be debatable, the fact that the lack of government hasn't made it into the paradise you claim the absence of government will make somewhere is certainly a closed case.

Quote :

"Whenever we label the government as our "protector," we have to ask the question: who will protect us from our protectors?"

The answer is "the same guy who would have protected you had the protector not been there". But the good thing is that for the most part, I don't have to worry about the other stuff. The protector will take care of most of the armed robberies, so I don't have to worry that much about beeing good at protecting myself from armed robberies, my time can be better spent being good at the things I am already good at. I also don't have to worry about shopping around for armed robery protection or insurance, and having to go through legal troubles if they don't do their job.

1/25/2011 1:08:05 PM

how South Carolina wants to fix their educational system:

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/if-they-gave-out-awards-for-good-policy-design/#utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Cato-at-liberty+(Cato+at+Liberty)

Quote :

"If They Gave Out Awards for Good Policy Design… Posted by Andrew J. Coulson …the folks in South Carolina would be top contenders for the gold. Here’s the thing: all the evidence shows that educators are human beings like the rest of us and that education benefits from the same market freedoms and incentives that have driven progress in every other field. So how do you unleash those market forces so that our kids have the best shot at fulfilling their potentials? For a start: You minimize regulation on what and how teachers teach. You make it easy for families to choose whichever schools (or homeschooling) they deem best for their kids. You encourage people to pay directly for their own children’s education to the greatest extent possible, reserving third-party payment (which is inherently problematic) to an as-needed basis As a result, schools compete for the privilege of serving each and every child and they are attentive to parents’ demands because otherwise their livelihoods will suffer. Parents, in turn, become more invested in their children’s education—both literally and figuratively—because suddenly they have the power to exercise their educational responsibilities, and they expect to get value for the money they spend. There are already a few school choice programs around the country that move in this direction, but a bill under consideration in South Carolina would do a better job than any of them. First, it offers tax cuts to parents who personally shoulder the cost of their own kids’ education, and those cuts are more meaningful in size than the ones currently offered in Illinois and Iowa. As Milton Friedman (and Pliny the Younger) rightly said: people are most careful spending their own money on their own families. Second, it extends its benefits to homeschoolers, which few other choice programs do. Third, it provides tuition assistance to low-income families through nonprofit scholarship organizations (SGOs) that are funded by private tax-creditable donations—better than any other system of third-party education aid. If enacted, this program will not only provide a wonderful new range of educational options to South Carolina families, it will save taxpayers millions due to the tremendous inefficiency of the existing state-run monopoly school system. That combination of improved education options and reduced tax burden will in turn attract new businesses to the state, spurring economic growth. All in all, a pretty darn good deal."

[Edited on January 25, 2011 at 2:16 PM. Reason : ..]

1/25/2011 2:15:48 PM

^ so are you saying thats good for credibility or not?

1/25/2011 2:32:06 PM

I didnt really offer an opinion, I just thought it interesting. However, now that you have asked, I think its good for credibility to recognize that you have a problem and to put forth ideas on how to correct it.

Whether you believe in these particular ideas or not is another story. I tend to agree with them, putting power in the hands of parents. It will be interesting to follow and see if we should follow a similar model in our own state.

1/25/2011 2:46:21 PM

true, time will tell, I guess

[Edited on January 25, 2011 at 2:53 PM. Reason : if it passes]

1/25/2011 2:53:09 PM

Quote :

"There is no such thing as a free country by your definition. And I was just letting you know, you can opt out. Calling it slavery, or a mafia, or whatever other hyperbole freedom nuts love to use is made absolutely null by the ability to renounce your citizenship and leave. I don't even give a shit where you go, but since you have an opt out clause, you're welcome to use it and try your luck elsewhere."

You could have a free country, but there's never been (and never will be) a free nation state. The state derives its power from force, or the threat of force, and those that are born into the territory governed by that state have no ability to opt out. The fact that they can move or renounce their citizenship is no recourse. A person born here is still involuntary placed within an oppressive system of laws.

Quote :

"Also, by what right do you own land? The right of ownership is as arbitrary as the right of government."

I would say that if you have worked that land, and/or obtained that land through legitimate means from someone that did, you own it. That's not to say you own everything above and below it. We tend to think about property rights in terms of strict land boundaries, but as Rothbard explained, property rights are intangible.

Quote :

"Actually, they will save you from an armed robber and do so on a consistent basis. People believing that news stories are the norm is the same reason mothers are paranoid their kids will be snatched up by kidnappers."

I don't lose any sleep worrying about armed robbers. The fact is, though, that if a guy shows up to your house with a gun, and there doesn't happen to be a cop right in front of your house, you're gonna get robbed. Unless you also have a gun, in which case, you might have a chance. Police are great for prosecuting criminals after the fact, but they aren't great for stopping a crime in process.

Quote :

"And for the past 20 years they've effectively had no government, and the place is a giant shit hole."

It was a giant shithole to begin with, precisely because of the government that was in place there, and international pressure. A poorly educated, impoverished nation doesn't suddenly become a first world nation in 20 years due to the absence of a state, especially when outside forces are still shitting on the place.

Quote :

"The market does not attempt to prevent any of that suffering."

The market doesn't attempt to do anything. That's just a word we use to describe the exchange of goods and services between people. Some people are capable of providing medical care or producing health related goods. In a free market, competition and the profit motive will result in increased quality and falling prices; this includes health services. That's why capitalism, even from a utilitarian viewpoint, is superior to any other system. Unfortunately, in the areas where we have the most intervention (post-secondary education, health care), we see unsustainable price increases.

Quote :

"That's certainly debatable, it's pretty bad there right now, I struggle to think of a worse place in the world. But while that may be debatable, the fact that the lack of government hasn't made it into the paradise you claim the absence of government will make somewhere is certainly a closed case."

As I already pointed out, a simple absence of government is not enough to achieve true liberty. Even anarcho-communists or anarcho-syndicalists would agree with that. The people have to maintain a respect for liberty and democracy, and in Somalia, that respect never existed to begin with.

Quote :

"The answer is "the same guy who would have protected you had the protector not been there". But the good thing is that for the most part, I don't have to worry about the other stuff. The protector will take care of most of the armed robberies, so I don't have to worry that much about beeing good at protecting myself from armed robberies, my time can be better spent being good at the things I am already good at. I also don't have to worry about shopping around for armed robery protection or insurance, and having to go through legal troubles if they don't do their job."

So...yourself? It's against the law to protect yourself from the government. You'll be killed or given an additional sentence if you try. You might think the state does a good job of protecting you. It does a poor job at protecting those sitting in jail for victimless crimes. It does a poor job of protecting those murdered by drug cartels that are a direct result of prohibition. Millions have died by the hand of the U.S. military.

1/25/2011 4:56:29 PM

At least they have privately run liquor stores.

1/25/2011 5:42:55 PM

Quote :

"JANUARY 25--South Carolina cops are attempting to identify the participants in a wild brawl early Saturday at an International House of Pancakes, video of which has gone viral online. As seen in the below clip--which includes some cursing--the female combatants are seen punching and wrestling with each other as tables are toppled. At one point, a woman picks up a coffee pot and strikes another woman in the head while she is being pinned to a table. Later, a man is seen swinging a cane at the woman who was struck with the coffee pot. The woman, adopting a lion tamer’s pose, picks up a chair and tosses it at the cane wielder. When Orangeburg County Sheriff’s Department deputies arrived at the IHOP at 5:10 AM, the fight participants had already departed. And despite the restaurant having been wrecked by the brawlers, security and management “did not want to pursue any charges on the incident,” according to a sheriff's report. -- http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/internet/cops-probe-ihop-melee-caught-tape"

when your local and county law enforcement fails, snitches will get stitches.





[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 11:18 AM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 11:15:26 AM

Quote :

"The woman, adopting a lion tamer’s pose, picks up a chair and tosses it at the cane wielder."

At first I wondered who the hell was writing this garbage, and then I saw the url.

1/26/2011 11:28:31 AM

this is not "thesmokinggun credibility watch."

your argument is invalid

1/26/2011 5:14:31 PM