Will somebody clue in this lost soul - DoubleL to be specific?

"Hey
I was searching around and your name came up on where to find old test that Dr. Warren has giving in the past. I am a back at State after some time off and his class was the only CH class I could in. Any chance you can help? "

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/polar_bear_facepalm.jpg?w=489&h=366&h=457

2/7/2011 9:31:34 PM

I don't cheat if that is what you are asking

2/7/2011 9:32:17 PM

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahhaha

2/7/2011 9:32:27 PM

PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT PAUL COUSINS ALERT

2/7/2011 9:32:52 PM

he must suffer

warren checks t-dub

2/7/2011 9:33:51 PM

picture post fail

2/7/2011 9:34:14 PM

I understand this thread. I can't blame the guy though, real world is all about preparing yourself for the task at hand. He only wanted advice, not answers. Just be proud your student cares enough to ask.

2/7/2011 9:36:33 PM

2/7/2011 9:37:16 PM

at least the kid didn't register with is unity id

2/7/2011 9:37:16 PM

i still don't understand why using old tests to study is outlawed

2/7/2011 9:38:50 PM

PAT DABNEY ALERT

2/7/2011 9:39:10 PM

2/7/2011 9:41:38 PM

yeah seriously? I mean all of the SAT study guides are old SAT tests... But seriously, I don't keep shit around after I passed a test, it just gets thrown away.

2/7/2011 9:41:44 PM

i had several professors post old exams to use as study guides

2/7/2011 9:42:24 PM

2/7/2011 9:42:56 PM

If the professor posts it, it's not cheating

If you get the old test in any other way, however, it's time for

2/7/2011 9:43:41 PM

I've had old exams and finals given by professors in every single one of my ECE classes. I don't get it... If a professor uses the exact same exams with changed numbers or elements whatever then either they are lazy or they know the class is bullshit and not important

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

2/7/2011 9:45:26 PM

it would be the professor's own damn fault and laziness to be using the same damn questions on a test for multiple classes. Shit, I know a few that gave out study guides that were exactly like the test, down to the same format and answers.

2/7/2011 9:46:22 PM

come on you guys, i have a match tonight

2/7/2011 9:46:34 PM

ITT it's the professor's fault you cheated

2/7/2011 9:47:48 PM

listen, i'm not saying it's not lazy on the part of the prof

but the university says it's cheating so our opinion does not matter

also,

http://www.koofers.com/north-carolina-state-university-ncsu/

2/7/2011 9:48:16 PM

don't a lot of sororities have test banks? i remember when some DG girls were trying to win me over that was one of their favorite things to bring up

2/7/2011 9:50:45 PM

Where does it say that? I've never manage to read through the 90000 pages of rules and regulations

I know its against the policy to remove any test especially final exams from a class without specific permission, but is having old tests seriously cause of disciplinary action? I just find this so strange because there are literally archives of like 7-8 years of tests every semester on the course websites of multiple classes i've taken. Like who gives a shit. If your class is hard they won't be able to memorize a 3 hour exam's worth of material anyways unless its the only class they have.

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

2/7/2011 9:52:31 PM

I submit the difference is between the professor providing the class as a whole with an old exam (or exams) - in fact, today I sent the class an old exam by which to study - and an individual soliciting for assistance not available to the class as a whole.

And, of course, there is the schadenfreude factor.

2/7/2011 9:55:01 PM

also, whats with all the young ppl trying to cheat these days? I mean shit. I had this hot chick trying to pass me a note on the ground asking what the answer was. she texted me and shit, but I tried my hardest like I didn't know shit and ignored her. Even if I did help her, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gotten any sexual favors from it, so not worth the risk.

Ended up getting 97 on it for not actually knowing the material. I just can BS really good.

2/7/2011 9:55:15 PM

^^ they should be rewarded for asking and not being a student who just sits around and doesn't ask for help


haha okay maybe thats a little bit too far

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

[Edited on February 7, 2011 at 9:58 PM. Reason : ]

2/7/2011 9:57:53 PM

Quote :

"9. CHEATING Cheating includes but is not limited to the following actions: 9.1 Copying from someone else's test or examination paper. 9.2 Possessing, buying, selling, removing, receiving, or using, at any time or in any manner not prescribed by the instructor, a copy or copies of any materials (in whole or part) intended to be used as an instrument of academic evaluation. 9.3 Using materials or equipment during a test or other academic evaluation which have not been authorized by the instructor, such as crib notes, calculator, or tape recorder. 9.4 Obtaining or attempting to obtain in a fraudulent manner any material relating to a student's academic work. Such actions include theft of examination through collusion with a university employee. 9.5 Working with another or others in completing a take-home examination or assignment when the instructor has required independent and unaided action. 9.6 Attempting to influence or change an academic evaluation, grade, or record by unfair means. This would include altering academic work which has been returned to the student and which has been resubmitted without indicating that the work has been altered. This also includes changing or altering grades on grade report forms or on transcripts. 9.7 Permitting another student to substitute for one's self in an academic evaluation. 9.8 Marking or submitting an examination or evaluation material in a manner designed to deceive the grading system. 9.9 Willfully damaging the academic work or efforts of another student. 9.10 Failing to comply with a specific condition of academic integrity which has been clearly announced in a particular course. 9.11 Submitting, without prior permission of the instructor, any work by a student which has at any time been submitted in identical or similar form by that student in fulfillment of any other academic requirement at any institution. 9.12 Submitting of material in whole or part for academic evaluation that has been prepared by another individual(s). 9.13 Submitting data which have been altered or contrived in such a way as to be deliberately misleading."

http://www.ncsu.edu/policies/student_services/student_discipline/POL11.35.1.php

2/7/2011 9:58:27 PM

bold nigga


I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

2/7/2011 9:59:14 PM

This section of the code of student conduct would make this activity cheating if the prof is lazy, reuses old questions, and does not post old exams:

Quote :

"2. Possessing, buying, removing, receiving or using, at any time or in any manner not prescribed by the instructor, copy or copies of any materials intended to be used as an instrument of academic evaluation in advance of its administration. "

http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_affairs/osc/AIpage/cheatingpolicy.html

2/7/2011 10:00:00 PM

^^it's not Remembrance of Things Past

Quote :

"and an individual soliciting for assistance not available to the class as a whole."

i would think the difference would be if you would be willing to give this assistance to this student but not others who asked for the same assistance--you aren't denying if they aren't asking

2/7/2011 10:01:38 PM

so Wikipedia would be considered illegal source materials?

2/7/2011 10:04:34 PM

is wikipedia an instrument of academic evaluation?

2/7/2011 10:06:54 PM

Academic Evaluation means test or quiz...

Wikipedia is not a credible source according to most professors (even though it totally is unless you are looking up something that isn't worth researching in the first place), but it is a good place to find sources. Which is basically their way of saying "Don't copy wikipedia but you can use it"

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

2/7/2011 10:07:25 PM

Quote :

"http://collegewebeditor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/ncsu_cousins.jpg"

Haha - I had no idea he looked like that.

Still doing enforcement from facebook pics? Good times, good times.

2/7/2011 10:07:58 PM

I go there for the porn

2/7/2011 10:08:13 PM

facebook or wikipedia?

2/7/2011 10:08:31 PM

I took Warren's class 8 times

PM me for all the old tests and Webassigns

2/7/2011 10:46:50 PM

i am in warrens pchem class right now. we have a test tomorrow on ideal gas law shit.

there will be much crying and anxiety.

2/7/2011 10:55:25 PM

^PM the OP for test answers

2/7/2011 10:56:12 PM

ADD TO MY TOPICS for hilarity.

2/7/2011 11:08:10 PM

Just to play devil's advocate here:

Quote :

"2. Possessing, buying, removing, receiving or using, at any time or in any manner not prescribed by the instructor, copy or copies of any materials intended to be used as an instrument of academic evaluation in advance of its administration."

But that, IMO, seems like it is limited to current semester tests (like trying to buy a copy of a stolen exam before the test). The way I see it, a past test is no longer intended (and I think intended is a keyword) to be used as an instrument of academic evaluation (test/exam). It was its previous intention, but to the student's knowledge, it is no longer intended to be used as a test.

Granted, a teacher could just reuse old tests each semester and keep everything EXACTLY the same. But penalizing a student for a teacher's laziness seems wrong. If anything, the teacher's own credentials should be evaluated.

Instead, it should be reworded as such:

Quote :

"2. Possessing, buying, removing, receiving or using, at any time or in any manner not prescribed by the instructor, copy or copies of any materials to be used as an instrument of academic evaluation in advance of its administration, past or present, without instructor approval."

Right now, if a student is caught, I think they could make a decent case regarding how an old test is no longer intended to be used as a test/exam. The code of conduct brings up the issue of intention, and from the student's perspective, an old test would not appear to be intended as a test for the student.

2/7/2011 11:33:00 PM

You're ignoring several words in the code

If the professor intends to reuse even one question from that old exam and hasn't provided the old exam to the students him/herself, the student is in violation of the letter of that rule

I don't give a goddamn fuck what you think is right or wrong

Quote :

"Possessing, buying, selling, removing, receiving, or using, at any time or in any manner not prescribed by the instructor, a copy or copies of any materials (in whole or part) intended to be used as an instrument of academic evaluation."

2/7/2011 11:35:13 PM

^ But how does anyone know whether the material will be used on a future exam, or really, the exam that the student will have (as that is all that really matters)? Really, the code punishes a student for not knowing a teacher's intentions. If I were to acquire a test from the previous year from a student and the teacher did not provide me with the material and the teacher did not use the questions or material from the old test on the one I took, would I still be in violation of the code?

And lets be honest, any professor who uses the same test each year should be canned. Students know the professors who just give the same exams every year and a professor shouldn't be dumb enough to think a student wouldn't try to get an old copy of an exam.

2/8/2011 12:12:52 AM

It's not complicated

"in any manner not prescribed by the instructor"

if they don't explicitly tell you it is ok to use it, it is against the academic code.

[Edited on February 8, 2011 at 12:17 AM. Reason : regardless of the intentions of the professor to reuse any material]

2/8/2011 12:14:54 AM

I liked warren's ch 201 class. it was tough. if warren is still around when I finish up my degree via the navy, i will take more of his classes. why? because while I may not have gotten an a++ I learned the fuck out of some chemistry just trying to pass

2/8/2011 12:15:51 AM

^^ Exactly, it's a clear cut standard that is easy to understand and follow

Quote :

"Really, the code punishes a student for not knowing a teacher's intentions."

No, it doesn't. There is no guesswork here. Stay away from old tests not provided by the professor and there is no problem.

Quote :

"If I were to acquire a test from the previous year from a student and the teacher did not provide me with the material and the teacher did not use the questions or material from the old test on the one I took, would I still be in violation of the code?"

Actually I don't think you would be - except in a case where the professor could show that they had intended to use some part of an old exam until they learned it was being circulated.

2/8/2011 12:15:56 AM

warren even found a mistake on a question i couldn't figure out and asked tww for help on.

2/8/2011 12:17:46 AM

hate to break it to you guys but old tests are always fair game. pretty much every where at every level... shit at harvard law they have them distributed....

2/8/2011 12:22:30 AM

At least read the fucking thread

Hate to break it to you but nobody is saying exams distributed by professors themselves are a problem

But feel free to argue against a point that was never made

2/8/2011 12:22:50 AM

if you need more crap to practice on for whatever reason: just change the fucking numbers on what you have.

set em up for paul cousins

2/8/2011 12:25:27 AM