THE WAR IS OVER!!!

5/1/2011 11:42:26 PM

LOL

5/2/2011 12:00:21 AM

An immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan seems in order.

5/2/2011 12:01:20 AM

an immediate withdrawl from afghanistan would likely create a "new osama"

5/2/2011 12:13:53 AM

We still have Ayman al-Zawahiri to capture, and ideally we'll help the questionably legitimate government of Hamid Karzai unify the country and keep out the Taliban and the remnants of Al-Qa'idah, but our current program of Afghanistanization hasn't been working out so well

[Edited on May 2, 2011 at 12:15 AM. Reason : ^The "new Osama" is the long-standing brains of Al-Qa'idah, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

5/2/2011 12:14:44 AM

Quote :

"an immediate withdrawl from afghanistan would likely create a "new osama""

How many will staying there create?

5/2/2011 12:16:35 AM

How many will leaving there create?

5/2/2011 12:20:36 AM

i wonder if golden viper isn't right.

i mean, i used to be all for staying in Iraq and Afghanistan because i worried about the consequences of leaving. but now i'm not so sure.

5/2/2011 12:57:33 AM

It would be a massive symbolic gesture to the entire Muslim world if we just left.

5/2/2011 5:58:30 AM

LOL

10 posts in TSB
10 pages in CC

5/2/2011 6:00:23 AM

Yea I've been hesitant to post anything in the CC threads. And maybe this is totally unpatriotic of me, but am I the only one slightly disconcerted by all the video of people cheering in the streets over this news?

5/2/2011 7:09:59 AM

You're right, it is totally unpatriotic of you.

5/2/2011 7:54:18 AM

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's dead, I guess I'm just not used to seeing Americans celebrate death in the streets. Or, maybe it's just bc it was the first thing I saw when I turned the tv on this morning and I hadn't really had time to process everything.

5/2/2011 8:05:01 AM

Seems like an appropriate response to me

5/2/2011 8:08:42 AM

Majorly impressive victory by our intelligence services and special forces. Hopefully this is a sign they've turned a corner since Khost. Certainly it will improve morale.

Thought Obama's speech was very good, particularly where he pointed out that bin Laden was as much a killer of Muslims as he was Americans.

5/2/2011 9:12:06 AM

Seen on CNN's homepage:

Quote :

"Terrorist leader killed by U.S. troops in Pakistan Live updates: No indication Obama tried to surrender;"

5/2/2011 11:12:09 AM

I'm sure it was frowned upon when people took to the streets to cheer when they heard Mussolini and Hitler died too

5/2/2011 11:17:29 AM

Quote :

"It would be a massive symbolic gesture to the entire Muslim world if we just left."

Yeah. It would symbolize that we don't give a shit about them and will continue to throw them to the wolves every time we accomplish our short-term goals. See: The last time we abandoned Afghanistan.

Quote :

"And maybe this is totally unpatriotic of me, but am I the only one slightly disconcerted by all the video of people cheering in the streets over this news?"

Partly I think this is coming from people who don't understand that Osama dying does not mean the war's over and the boys are coming home. Certainly some members of the crowd seemed to convey that belief.

But I suspect most of them are like me, and they're genuinely happy that not only is a horrible asshole dead, but we're the ones that got to kill him.

And for my part, I'll repeat something I said in CC: I hope the entire world is looking at us right now and realizing that we are the kind of people who burst spontaneously into song when we kill our enemies. We are not to be fucked with. We will track you down, shoot you, dump your body into the ocean, and then have a goddamn nationwide block party.

5/2/2011 2:05:38 PM

Quote :

"I hope the entire world is looking at us right now and realizing that we are the kind of people who burst spontaneously into song when we kill our enemies. We are not to be fucked with. We will track you down, shoot you, dump your body into the ocean, and then have a goddamn nationwide block party"

Frankly, our "nationwide block party" is nothing compared to the parties some countries have after a soccer game. You know what happened to Mussolini? We aren't impressing anyone.

5/2/2011 2:36:34 PM

Certainly, this marks a symbolic victory over Al Qaeda. Bin Laden was a diabolical, frenzied individual, though I do not doubt he died believing he was on the right side of history. Of course, this doesn't represent an actual vctory - the externalities of such an event will prove to be more harmful than if Bin Laden had never been seen again. This will undoubtedly bolster the resolve of terrorists who are still convinced that they're part of a great cause, and individuals who would have never become terrorists will join the cause.

One also has to wonder if everything leading up to this point was worth it, or even necessary: the erosion of our civil liberties, a costly nation building exercise in Afghanistan (which will continue, I'm sure), and the deaths of thousands that had nothing to do with terrorism. I also suspect that this turn of events will increase tension between the United States and Pakistan; Bin Laden surely had a vast network operating out of Pakistan.

I'm glad the guy is dead, but unfortunately, terrorism will continue as long as there is ample motivation. I can't help but feel a little sick to my stomach during times of unusually strong nationalistic pride, especially when it seems as though no one has learned a single lesson since 9-11. Revenge is sweet, but it loses something amidst the sobering reality that we are now exiting the age of American economic dominance. While Bin Laden is dead, he is victorious nonetheless - if his goal was to drain our resources, he was remarkably successful. What a shame that our cowardly leaders pissed away our future in such a short span of time.

[Edited on May 2, 2011 at 2:49 PM. Reason : ]

5/2/2011 2:46:02 PM

Quote :

"Frankly, our "nationwide block party" is nothing compared to the parties some countries have after a soccer game. You know what happened to Mussolini? We aren't impressing anyone."

A soccer game would be considered a normal, healthy thing to celebrate. As to Mussolini, any bunch of angry idiots can desecrate a body. The treatment of him may have indicated extreme anger. Our response to Osama indicates borderline insanity. The dagos weren't singing merry tunes while they strung him up, far as I know.

5/2/2011 3:52:15 PM

http://yhoo.it/kTeVte

Quote :

""Without our involvement, this operation would not have succeeded," one Pakistani official source said. "Was it possible without our help? No," another Pakistani security official said. "It was a joint intelligence operation.""

True. They built the compound. We killed the bastard.

[Edited on May 2, 2011 at 10:07 PM. Reason : link]

5/2/2011 10:06:39 PM

"The last time we abandoned Afghanistan," Iraq.

5/2/2011 11:36:28 PM

After my initial consideration I am reminded of two quotes. One I got from this website when I looked back to the original 9/11 threads, which I was not here to read when they were first written. I don't know who posted it, but I am grateful for the reference to Melville's "The Martyr:"

Quote :

"There is sobbing of the strong, And a pall upon the land; But the People in their weeping Bare the iron hand: Beware the People weeping When they bare the iron hand. "

It has been in my mind ever since. And yet there is another piece of poetry stuck in my mind now. Admittedly the poet is a bit obscure. And admittedly he was talking about a slightly different subject. But for whatever reason it is stuck in my mind and I feel compelled to share the words of the great wordsmith of rapper Butch Cassidy, from the Snoop Dogg collection known as "Lay Low:"

Quote :

"Our rise, it was no surprise I always knew these fools would trip Hatin, fakin, schemin on mine and on the down low talkin shit Best move cause I refuse to lose no matter which damn road I choose So lay low cause you might be bruised Top story on the evening news"

Of course, it's important to read the poetic subtext there. For example, "bruised" refers to "shot in the goddamn chest and face."

5/2/2011 11:41:54 PM

Thumbs down, you son of a bitch!

5/3/2011 12:25:07 AM

Quote :

"Our response to Osama indicates borderline insanity. "

Why? What is wrong with it and what makes you think any other nation wouldn't be similarly jubilant given similar circumstances; wouldn't go the same lengths to kill and dispose of Osama?

5/3/2011 8:56:15 AM

Our response to the bombing of the WTC Towers represented borderline insanity.

This is closer to catharsis. Maybe we can finally= move on after the last 10 years of madness.

[Edited on May 3, 2011 at 9:07 AM. Reason : .]

5/3/2011 9:06:29 AM

Quote :

"Why? What is wrong with it"

It's a celebration of death--it makes us look like savages. It's distasteful, considering the trauma we put several countries through. It gives Osama's supporters more reason to hate us. There are three reasons off the top of my head.

Quote :

"what makes you think any other nation wouldn't be similarly jubilant given similar circumstances"

Come on, you know the saying: "If everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?"

[Edited on May 3, 2011 at 9:15 AM. Reason : .]

5/3/2011 9:14:48 AM

Quote :

"It's a celebration of death--it makes us look like savages."

Perhaps.

Quote :

"It's distasteful, considering the trauma we put several countries through."

The trauma in Iraq and Afghanistan (and just about everywhere else in the Muslim world) has been inflicted by bin Laden and his nihilistic followers who have, for no good reason, unleashed over the last 20 years a campaign of barbarity aimed directly at the Muslims you pretend to weep for.

Quote :

"It gives Osama's supporters more reason to hate us."

By all means, they should hate us. Why on Earth would seek the friendship of people who openly proclaim to love death more than we love life?

[Edited on May 3, 2011 at 9:34 AM. Reason : ]

5/3/2011 9:32:30 AM

the only thing i see thats crazy is that some of these college kids who are celebrating were 7 or 8 when 9/11 happened

5/3/2011 9:45:37 AM

Are you saying college kids needs a legitimate excuse to get wasted and wander around the streets at night?

5/3/2011 9:49:59 AM

Quote :

"The trauma in Iraq and Afghanistan (and just about everywhere else in the Muslim world) has been inflicted by bin Laden and his nihilistic followers who have, for no good reason, unleashed over the last 20 years a campaign of barbarity aimed directly at the Muslims you pretend to weep for. "

Right. So in order to save the Muslim world, we must kill hundreds of thousands of them, and displace millions more from their homes? The guise of good will does not excuse our military's blatant disregard for civilian life. We have compounded on Al'Qaeda's terrorism.

[Edited on May 3, 2011 at 9:54 AM. Reason : .]

5/3/2011 9:54:17 AM

Quote :

"It's a celebration of death--it makes us look like savages. "

There's nothing savage about celebrating Justice. The celebration would have still occurred if we had captured him safe and sound.

In any case, the sanctity of life is relative to the way the life is lived. Where was this high-minded disgust when people openly fantasized about killing Osama?

Quote :

"It's distasteful, considering the trauma we put several countries through. "

We ddin't put several countries through severe trauma for the sole purpose of hunting Osama.

Quote :

"It gives Osama's supporters more reason to hate us."

They already hate us enough to explode themselves to kill people who are merely ambivalent towards the USA.

Quote :

"Come on, you know the saying: "If everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?""

If it worked out great for them, then yes, I probably would.

5/3/2011 11:11:36 AM

Article on the burial for those who are interested. Interesting and technical read.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/02/bin.laden.burial.at.sea/index.html?npt=NP1

Quote :

"The religious rites were conducted on the deck of the USS Carl Vinson in the Arabian Sea, with the ceremony starting at 1:10 a.m. and finishing at 2:10 a.m. ET, according to a senior Defense official. "The body was washed and placed in a white sheet. A military official read prepared remarks, which were then translated into Arabic by a native speaker, The body of Osama bin Laden was placed on a flat board, which was then tipped up, and allowed to slide into the sea," the official said."

Makes me respect America the way it was so elaborately carried out.

We all know what extremist Muslims/Arabs do when they get their hands on their enemy, whether living or dead... (behead, drag through the streets, etc).

5/3/2011 11:16:10 AM

Another interesting read:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/03/bin.laden.courier/index.html?npt=NP1

And another:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/02/bin.laden.abbottabad/index.html?npt=NP1

Cool fact:

Quote :

"Like much of the region, Abbottabad has long been a theater of sectarian and religious rivalry. Back in the mid-19th century a British officer named Maj. James Abbott brought peace to an area that saw violent confrontations between its Sikh and Muslim populations. Abbott's contribution was recognized when the town was named after him. He even wrote a poem about the place that would bear his name: "I remember the day when I first came here And smelt the sweet Abbottabad air ...""

So the name literally means "the land/place of Abbott".

5/3/2011 11:25:43 AM

Quote :

"There's nothing savage about celebrating Justice. The celebration would have still occurred if we had captured him safe and sound."

Word it however you want, you're still celebrating a person's death, however misguided and cruel they were. People are talking about spiking his head on the statue of liberty for fuck's sake. It's absolutely disgusting and savage.

Quote :

" In any case, the sanctity of life is relative to the way the life is lived. Where was this high-minded disgust when people openly fantasized about killing Osama? "

Irrelevant, although I feel the same way about overly-fantasized killing as I do about post-killing celebration. Disgusting.

Quote :

" We ddin't put several countries through severe trauma for the sole purpose of hunting Osama. "

We did it to fight terrorists. Osama was the prime Al-Qaeda target.

Quote :

" They already hate us enough to explode themselves to kill people who are merely ambivalent towards the USA. "

Right, let's enrage them further. Let's play football with Osama's head!

Quote :

" If it worked out great for them, then yes, I probably would. "

wut

5/3/2011 11:38:55 AM

Quote :

"I can’t help but feel sort of uncomfortable when I see posts by Americans talking about the complicated nature of what they’re feel in relation to [Bin Laden's death] that (I’m sorry) had very little to do with most of them. 9/11, service-men and our economy aside, we really haven’t seen this war at all. I know that most people on Tumblr have been fortunate enough to live blissfully unaware. I’m far more interested in the reaction from civilians in those Middle Eastern countries who’ve had to live in a war-zone for nearly ten years. I don’t mean to offend any of you for talking about your feelings, because that’s what blogs are for, but just I think that what they feel is much more important than what I feel. I can’t take myself too seriously on this issue when they face concrete ramifications."

[Edited on May 3, 2011 at 11:53 AM. Reason : ``]

5/3/2011 11:52:14 AM

Quote :

"Right. So in order to save the Muslim world, we must kill hundreds of thousands of them, and displace millions more from their homes? The guise of good will does not excuse our military's blatant disregard for civilian life. We have compounded on Al'Qaeda's terrorism."

Certainly tens of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans would still be alive if bin Ladenists and other extremist groups didn't insist on turning those countries into war zones. The US and its allies have been trying for nearly a decade to prop up stable, relatively democratic regimes that don't abuse human rights as a matter of doctrine, and leave. It's the Fascists like bin Laden who insist that the blood keep flowing. That we don't melt away and allow them to regain control, thus repeating the mistakes of 90s, is a good thing for both Muslims and the West. There is no peace, either for us or for Muslims, in a world in which these groups have a foothold.

[Edited on May 3, 2011 at 12:03 PM. Reason : ]

5/3/2011 12:02:30 PM

5/3/2011 1:14:51 PM

Quote :

"Why? What is wrong with it and what makes you think any other nation wouldn't be similarly jubilant given similar circumstances; wouldn't go the same lengths to kill and dispose of Osama?"

I meant it in a purely positive sense. I want the rest of the world aware that we'll kill their ass and be so happy about it we'll burst into song.

5/3/2011 1:19:54 PM

5/3/2011 1:52:54 PM

i was waiting for details that are in the following article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8490859/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-the-mysterious-Khan-family-who-were-good-neighbours.html

5/4/2011 4:03:43 PM

Quote :

"I also noticed that wild cannabis grew along the outer walls of the compound itself, exuding a pleasant fragrance in the hot early summer air. "

Osama enjoyed blazing up on occasion?

5/4/2011 4:43:24 PM

Posting this here to keep from bumping SMC's thread.

Bin Laden's journal reveals plans for future 9/11 style attacks and indicates a high-level of involvement in Al-Qaeda's operations

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2011/0512/Bin-Laden-journal-reveals-his-calculations-for-another-9-11-style-attack

Quote :

"The ongoing study of files recovered from Osama bin Laden's compound revealed that he wanted to plan another 9/11-scale attack on the US, which he hoped would shock the US into ending its presence in the Middle East. As information from the files is studied, it is becoming increasingly clear to US officials that bin Laden remained very involved in Al Qaeda's operations from his hiding spot in Abbottabad. It remains to be seen, however, if this will convince Pakistani officials that the 9/11 mastermind was more than an "out-of-touch figurehead" whose presence deep inside Pakistan was of little consequence, as they have suggested. Citing bin Laden's handwritten journal and information gleaned from computer files recovered in the May 2 raid, US officials told the Associated Press that the Saudi-born terrorist calculated how many Americans he thought would have to die in order for the US to leave the Arab world and decided that the small attacks since 9/11 would not be enough – that thousands had to die at once, like they did in the attacks on the World Trade Center. ... Further analysis has revealed bin Laden's unexpectedly high level of involvement in Al Qaeda in recent years, contrasting with initial reports that his capture would change little about the terrorist organization's work. "

5/12/2011 10:37:41 AM

Quote :

"The ongoing study of files recovered from Osama bin Laden's compound revealed that he wanted to plan another 9/11-scale attack on the US, which he hoped would shock the US into ending its presence in the Middle East."

So are we now finally admitting that terrorism is a direct result of the government's interventionism in the rest of the world?

[Edited on May 12, 2011 at 11:00 AM. Reason : .]

5/12/2011 10:59:18 AM

[Edited on May 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM. Reason : Bananas]

5/12/2011 4:12:40 PM

Quote :

"So are we now finally admitting that terrorism is a direct result of the government's interventionism in the rest of the world?"

Sure. In about the same way that the Holocaust was a direct result of the existence of Jews.

5/13/2011 8:31:38 AM

Quote :

"The ongoing study of files recovered from Osama bin Laden's compound revealed that he wanted to plan another 9/11-scale attack on the US, which he hoped would shock the US into ending its presence in the Middle East."

Because 9/11 did such a good job at achieving that result. More like:

The ongoing study of files recovered from Osama bin Laden's compound revealed that he wanted to plan another 9/11-scale attack on the US, which he hoped would shock the US into ending increasing its presence in the Middle East which would garner him even more supporters.

5/13/2011 9:01:26 AM

I tend to doubt that his motive was to draw the US into a large-scale military engagement in the Muslim world. Certainly hanging out in a dusty building watching old reruns of his speeches was not where he envisioned he would be 10 years after 9/11. The more likely theory, I think, is that he was drawing on the French withdraw from Algeria, the Soviet withdraw from Afghanistan, and the US withdraw from Somalia after basically a gunfight, and essentially bought into the idea that the US was a "paper tiger" who would crumple up and blow away after losing a few thousand civilian lives.

And that may not have been a crazy calculation. Certainly that's what Spain did after the Madrid bombings. And there is no shortage of people on both sides of the political spectrum in this country who argue we ought to do the same.

[Edited on May 13, 2011 at 9:31 AM. Reason : ]

5/13/2011 9:28:14 AM

Bin Laden's goal was always to get Western powers out of Saudi Arabia and Israel. Fuck all this noise about him baiting the US into war. He wanted us gone from the region. Instead his attacks caused us to take over the middle east.

What a stupid sand nigger.

[Edited on May 13, 2011 at 11:26 AM. Reason : hajis being hajis]

5/13/2011 11:25:00 AM