My use case is several trips a year (1 a week or so during the season) that are up to 600 miles away. I want something very comfortable for 4 to sit in for 10+ hours. I'll be hauling a braked 6x12 with anywhere from 2000 to 4000lbs in bikes and gear. This vehicle will be dedicated to hauling. I've thought about getting a 4 door truck with a slide-in camper, an rv to haul the trailer, and turning the trailer into a toy hauler and just getting an suv or something.

My requirements are in the following order:
comfort (I have a bruised tailbone, bad back, etc)
reliability
resale (don't know how long I'll be in the US so I need to be able to unload quickly)
gas mileage - 8.9mpg is unacceptable. that's what we got our last trip to RA with titan king cab, 5 bikes, 4 riders, lots of gear and a 16' trailer

my ideal vehicle would be an rv built on a ram 2500 chassis with a cummins I6. found a ford e350 with an international 7.3 but the steering is whack and all the inside would have to be outfitted and it seems like a tough sell.

6/9/2011 9:55:19 AM

02-06 escalade with 6.0

[/thread]

6/9/2011 10:01:21 AM

http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/find/listing/1999-Blue-Bird-Bus-Other-97619037

i win.

http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/find/listing/1995-Tmc-Rts-Bus-98166861

[Edited on June 9, 2011 at 10:06 AM. Reason : .]

6/9/2011 10:02:51 AM

95-00 explorer

6/9/2011 10:19:12 AM

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2429179691.html

6/9/2011 10:35:33 AM

I looked at excursions and saw this one http://raleigh.craigslist.org/ctd/2370730865.html
I'm guessing the 2wd would be better for towing than the 4wd in terms of gas mileage. I'm not towing a house so I doubt it would be necessary. going with an SUV means I have to "build" an RV out of my trailer though. I suppose I could just sell my trailer and buy a toy hauler... but RV stuff seems to really bleed value linearly.

6/9/2011 10:43:24 AM

The term overkill was invented for owning an Excursion to transport 4 people and 4000lbs, occasionally. Since your trailer is braked, you can go with something quite a bit lighter than an Excursion...

6/9/2011 11:24:32 AM

im more concerned with the cost of ownership, which I'm calculating as

resale price
- initial cost
- maintenance
- gas
----------------------
total cost to me

having more than I need for the job is fine as long as those last 2 minuses are low or comparable to other vehicles with lower initial cost. a 4 door tacoma gets 17-21mpg unloaded and 12-15mpg loaded. the larger diesels and now escalades that I'm looking at have comparable mileage while offering more space and increased comfort. I initially looked at the tacomas because they really hold their value and have proven to require minimal maintenance.

[Edited on June 9, 2011 at 11:31 AM. Reason : also if i get stuck in the US more long term, a big diesel would allow me to upgrade to a toy hauler]

6/9/2011 11:30:32 AM

seriously dude... i drove a bus from charlotte to raleigh and averaged 16mpg with 35 people on it.

check... into... buses....

6/9/2011 11:53:45 AM

well legally you need a chauffeur's license for a vehicle with more than 15 seats. I have no place to park a fucking bus at my house, and the market is so small on a bus that selling it will take ages. nevermind the lack of comfort afforded to most older buses that I could afford.

6/9/2011 12:02:46 PM

The E350 is a very easy conversion into a "rv" that can sleep 2 and transport 4. Hit me up if you want any info or help on that. I have a 78 E150 that i gutted and have built up the inside a bit. It is still a work in progress, but i take it camping and tow a boat quite often and just sleep in the back. It is the 351W, so gas mileage sucks 12mpg with nothing or 10 mpg with trailer and loaded van.

I think you are on the right path with the E350. another good option might be a diesel stepvan. Very simple conversion to RV and can be had for under $5000.

And ambulances. they already have all the 12/120 electrical and sometimes all of the air hoses ran, so you can run air tools off the system.

6/9/2011 12:16:03 PM

well i didn't drive it lol i knew i atleast needed a cdl or something but i did pay for the gas on my companies behalf and calculate mileage

6/9/2011 12:47:53 PM

truck and a tent

6/9/2011 7:42:25 PM

+1 on ambulances.

I see them at track days, one of my friends had one as well. Lights still worked too.

6/9/2011 8:52:16 PM

Ambulance to take to a motorcycle track event seems handy, especially if it comes w/EMPs on board.

I would've thought that your user case screamed for a Volvo wagon (V70R would be fan-tastic). but I suppose regular towing of much more than 3k lbs wouldn't be quite optimal but getting a full ton truck w/fuel economy as a concern doesn't seem... smart.

6/9/2011 9:47:21 PM

yeah, whatever I buy is going to be used exclusively for hauling. I think I might just bite the bullet and buy a nice diesel toy hauler.

6/9/2011 10:42:17 PM

Quote :

"seriously dude... i drove a bus from charlotte to raleigh"

Quote :

"well i didn't drive it lol"

6/9/2011 10:55:48 PM

I'm in the same boat.

I narrowed my list to all diesel/hybrid options:

VW Toured Diesel
Jeep Liberty Diesel
Toyota Highlander Hybrid

Though now I'm seriously considering an all-electric F150 conversion. Out here on the west coast, all of I5 from WA to CA will have electric recharge stations in a couple more years.

6/10/2011 12:04:45 AM

^ How long does it take to charge a vehicle at one of these "electric service stations?"

6/10/2011 1:00:31 AM

they are all "level 3" charge stations.

so ~30 minutes for a full charge, ~5 minutes for an 80% charge. Not too bad

6/10/2011 3:36:01 AM

Not bad at all... 5 minutes for 80% charge? most people spend around 2-3 mintues filling up their gas tank as the gas station, depending on how fast the pumps flow. So... is there a nice lounge where you can watch TV?

6/10/2011 5:08:04 AM

diesel hybrid? mid sized suv?

not the fit for Smoothcrim, dude needs at least a 3/4 Ton diesel truck. My vote is Chevy / Dodge of choice.

6/10/2011 9:02:56 AM

You should abandon this search and pick up a more sustainable, eco-friendly hobby.

Like knitting. Or painting little figurines.

6/10/2011 9:31:07 AM

^^ well point me to the chevy/dodge diesel that will hold its value and be COMFORTABLE to sit in. with the exception of my buddy's new titan, every truck I've ever ridden in has made my back and ass hurt after a couple hours. One thing that could make the process easier is a vendor that makes aftermarket seats meant for comfort and protection (read: not racing seats)

edit:
like these:
http://www.discountvantruck.com/truck40-20-40seats/truckseatsInnovator.htm

shit, with seats like those, I could turn my windstar into a conversion van of sorts and put benches that turn into beds in it and just a shower/water heater/sink in the trailer.

[Edited on June 10, 2011 at 10:12 AM. Reason : and the complexity increases..]

6/10/2011 9:55:39 AM

i find most trucks to be much more comfortable than cars. matter of fact, the titan i rode in was one of the more uncomfortable trucks i've ridden in, but still not bad.

6/10/2011 10:12:39 AM

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2430617912.html

I mean cmon dude, we sold ours for asking price in a matter of days. It would tow 8K no problem, the middle seats fold flat and 3rd row seats are removeable, it does not get much more comfortable in truck/SUV form. I forget how long exactly we had it (couple years) we spent a total of $13 on repairs. Running 80 on I-95 towing 8k it got like 9 but with 2200lbs it never even knew it was there- 15 average mpg.

6/10/2011 12:05:16 PM

Quote :

"Lumex All American 3212 Posts user info edit post You should abandon this search and pick up a more sustainable, eco-friendly hobby. Like knitting. Or painting little figurines. 6/10/2011 9:31:07 AM "

6/10/2011 1:51:48 PM

you could always do the idea that top gear did a few year back... and use a 770hp Evo rally car to haul your trailer. Then again, once they hit 128mph, you run into the turbo exploding syndrome...

6/10/2011 2:07:26 PM

Quote :

"^^ well point me to the chevy/dodge diesel that will hold its value and be COMFORTABLE to sit in. with the exception of my buddy's new titan, every truck I've ever ridden in has made my back and ass hurt after a couple hours."

i don't know about the diesel chevy offerings, but the current model silverados are incredible comfortable.

6/10/2011 2:21:23 PM

i think im going for a sprinter. 5cyl 2.7L turbo diesel that can handle 13500gwv and tow 5k on a loaded vehicle. can easily convert to an RV and with the back doors can make a single bike toy hauler on solo trips.

6/10/2011 4:24:07 PM

http://www.carolinanissans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28886&hl=ford

might not like the 300k miles thing, but maybe the other two he's selling have fared better

6/11/2011 9:26:17 AM

craigslist post was deleted which makes me think he sold it

6/11/2011 11:24:27 AM

id concur on escalade, but insurance is worse than horrid on those due to high theft.

6/12/2011 12:18:08 AM

go with the cummins

or any diesel for that matter.

6/12/2011 12:25:36 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Suburban-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dLVIQ26ituQ3dUCIQ26otnQ3d4Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d63Q26clkidQ3d597667694634658490QQ_trksidZp5197Q2em7QQitemZ200616748011

any opinion on this? I'd want to remove the lift immediately but that seems decent. sprinters cost a LOT of money

6/12/2011 12:36:47 PM

does seem like its in fairly good condition for the year.

6/12/2011 3:59:52 PM

NO, you are much better off with a gasser than a 6.5

6/12/2011 4:27:06 PM

thought the petrol version automatics was shittastic?

6/12/2011 5:20:26 PM

i read a lot about the 6.5 in specific and it was quite favorable. 5k towing and 17-19mpg

6/12/2011 5:23:15 PM

dont get a 6.5.


but if you do, be prepared for an I told you so from the rest of us

6/12/2011 5:30:49 PM

i didn't get it. im looking at a powerstroke 6.0 quad cab right now. ive read mileage going from 7.3 to 6.0 was hurt but could be fixed with chip. I've changed my towing payload as there's a deal on a 5th wheel toy hauler I just can't turn down

6/12/2011 10:57:17 PM

There's something fundamentally wrong about moving around 12,000lbs to get a 400 lbs bike a few hundred miles down the interstate.

6/12/2011 11:14:08 PM

i'll be hauling 2-4 bikes, 2-6 people, food, gear, water, fuel, and a hotel room. I could go hardcore and ride my bike to the track, but i think i can afford myself a bit more luxury

6/12/2011 11:33:13 PM

riding a bike to the track and back is no fun. been there done that.

6/13/2011 1:28:53 AM

Make sure you get something big enough to have at least a 54" HDTV in, w/satellite hook up, also high speed internet plz. Keep telling me your behemoth will get the same mpg as a minivan. I want at least a queen size bed in it, and none of that bunk set up either.

I for one think there's something pure about driving my car to the track, maybe doing a few time trials and driving it back.

6/13/2011 1:43:03 AM

^what if the vehicle is not street legal? We can't all live out of a porsche, mannnnn.

Word to the wise on the 6.0 ford, make sure that thing has the EGR system attended to, lots of pain & suffering if not

6/13/2011 7:29:54 AM

the way kawi's eat transmissions im probably going to start bringing a backup bike or a gs500/sv650 so i can also race in lightweight twins. you can live like a hobo all you want but im both amurrican and not poor

6/13/2011 8:12:51 AM

let's examine my next race for a cost model.

my next race is road atlanta which is 368 miles from my house. diesel is $3.70/gal, 87 oct is $3.60/gal.

1) my minivan gets 21mpg all highway. using it would require ~36gal of gas once you factor driving back and forth to hotels and the gas station because for some reason the 93 pump there doesn't work. now I have to stay at a hotel and the closest to the track start at $85/night. This is my current model. $299.60 to haul 1 non-riding guest (they won't split gas as a spectator) and my bike. No food allowances factored

2) I could use my trailer, but that adds about 1800 lbs to the mix because I'd bring more tools, a minifridge, a grill, and a real bed. Now if I pulled this with say.. my minivan, I'm estimating getting around 15mpg (amounting to ~52 gal + generator gas to run AC at night or the flat $25 power fee if available), I still have the problem of the seats being shit and no showers except at the nicest of tracks and even at road atlanta its more like someone pissing ice water on your head. $382 to haul 3 bikes and 3-4 guests with maybe 2 of them to split gas. Track gas for bikes is available to bring though


3) I could get an RV/camper and a truck. This will add 4000lbs and offer 3 beds. I will need a truck for this, as the one I've found such a screaming deal on is a 5th wheel. I've found diesel mpg suffers much less when hauling than gas, so going for diesel. a cummins turbo 6 or powerstroke 6L looks like it will put me in the 17-18mpg while hauling range. I can also bring enough non-ethanol 93 with me that I don't need to leave the track once I arrive, netting my gas requirement down to 41gal. I now have a shower, new comfortable seats, and capacity to drive with 3 riders in the truck and however many guests in the trailer. I no longer have a hotel requirement
$151.7 in gas that can be split amongst 3 riders

as long as I get things that are either cheap enough or have high enough resale, entry cost for each approach means little.

you tell which approach is the cheapest. also, i never have to worry about sketch towns and hotels like at CMP

also, for day trips like say a track day at VIR (vs a race weekend) I'd have a truck to throw the bike (or 2) in and only get slightly worse mpg than the current setup while also having a much easier time loading and unloading.

I would be interested in taking a sprinter and putting a shower and bed inside it and using it to haul as a replacement for approach #2 but the high capital cost of and making the vehicle less attractive to the majority of prospective purchasers in addition to the TIME it would take to do that has turned me off to it. Certainly something I would take on in the off season.

[Edited on June 13, 2011 at 8:51 AM. Reason : explanation]

6/13/2011 8:44:15 AM

Quote :

" a cummins turbo 6 or powerstroke 6L looks like it will put me in the 17-18mpg while hauling range."

more like 15mpg. Drove to Auburn & back from lexington NC in adam8778's 2003 CR dodge 4x4 ext cab short bed with stock tires, with a 16' car hauler & 4000# jeep cherokee in tow and got mid 14's. (That is with aftermarket intake, 4" exhaust, smarty tuner & 50hp injectors)

6/13/2011 8:57:49 AM

does 2wd really give 1-2mpg back? that's what i was after. also, what did you set your cruise to? I've read low speeds help diesel mileage a good bit while I seem to do better cruising at higher speeds with gas

6/13/2011 9:22:30 AM