I come to this conclusion after watching the video that Scuba Steve posted in the lounge and the following information that I will post.

First, here is the video that scuba posted:

Quote :

" Vice has one of the best recent documentaries of North Korea. There are three parts. http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-guide-to-travel/vice-guide-to-north-korea-1-of-3"

This video was "Published 3 years ago" according to the site. That means the video was shot roughly 4 or 5 years ago due to production time. So somewhere between 2007-2008, King Jong Il must have died.


Why do I say this? Because under no coincidence

1) Construction resumed in April 2008 on the Ryugyong Hotel. In only 3 years, they finished the job that was put on hold for 16 years.





2)GDP Growth by year
2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
1.3% 3.7% 1.2% 1.8% 2.2% 1.0% 1.6% 1.8% 3.7% 3.7%

Notice the HUGE jump beween 2007 and 2008. No coincidence.


3)North Korea asks for peace treaty with US.

US decline.

North Korea has requested a formal peace treaty with the US, with which it has technically been in a state of war for over half a century.

By Tom A. Peter / January 11, 2010
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2010/0111/North-Korea-asks-for-peace-treaty-with-US-Sincere-or-delay-tactic



4) On November 23, 2010, North Korea fired about 170 rounds of artillery on Yeonpyeong Island. This was the first act of aggression in DECADES. It symbolizes that a new leader was in office and they were "testing the waters" of what would happen.

They realized that a presence was still there when there was a return fire.



5) The biggest and damning evidence that Kim Jong Il is dead is this: North Korea opens up to cellphones. This is a mind numbingly HUGE deal.

See image here: http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2011-11-20T180530Z_1_BTRE7AJ1E9G00_RTROPTP_2_CNEWS-US-KOREA-NORTH-CELLPHONE.JPG


You heard it here first, guys. This is the finest investigative reporting you'll ever see on North Korea and it was all given to you by me.

I think North Korea is ready to be free and open. I give it 5 years before the sun rises on this nation and it explodes into thriving country.

11/21/2011 1:16:57 PM

Wat you talk about white boy? I no dead, I just take vacation.

11/21/2011 1:39:56 PM

cause several times i peed out a window and like there was a Kim Jong Il outside that window and then like a few months later i noticed the Kim Jong Il was dead

11/21/2011 7:21:18 PM

RONERY ITT

11/21/2011 7:37:22 PM

It sunny on Maui beach. I go talk to girr now.

11/21/2011 9:07:40 PM

Good night sweet prince...?

11/21/2011 9:19:34 PM

taken in 2011

11/22/2011 8:48:02 AM

Obviously a body double, you can tell by the pixels

11/22/2011 9:23:23 AM

Quote :

"1) Construction resumed in April 2008 on the Ryugyong Hotel. In only 3 years, they finished the job that was put on hold for 16 years."

So? How does that imply anything about KJI?

Quote :

"Notice the HUGE jump beween 2007 and 2008. No coincidence."

Almost as big as the jump from 2000 to 2001. Who died then?

Quote :

"You heard it here first, guys. This is the finest investigative reporting you'll ever see on North Korea and it was all given to you by me."

You're fucking retarded. You have it in your mind KJI is dead, so all you've done here is list a few examples of Korea doing strange things or THEIR GDP FLUCTUATING. There's not even mechanisms proposed linking KJI to any of this. You've made no logical or causal connections for any of this. The GDP one is especially laughable.

Far more likely is, as most people recognize, that the DPRK is run not by KJI, but by the military brass, and has been for a long time, KJI serving as a figurehead. He's a nut, and a stupid one at that, they aren't giving him any actual decision-making power. That being said, if he died, there wouldn't be signs of it in the conducting of the country's business, because he likely has little-to-no influence on that to begin with.


edit: best KJI blog: http://kimjongillookingatthings.tumblr.com/

[Edited on November 22, 2011 at 10:49 AM. Reason : .]

11/22/2011 10:48:58 AM

Just to point out, when your GDP is as small as North Korea's, it doesn't really take a whole lot to double your GDP growth.

11/22/2011 12:48:23 PM

inorite? I bought a box of pretzels at the airport and probably doubled their GDP

11/22/2011 1:44:11 PM

They probably just opened the amusement park as a house of horrors.

That or they kidnapped some particularly spendy tourists.

11/22/2011 1:51:16 PM

Saw this recently:

Kim Jong-Il To North Koreans In Libya: Don't Bother Coming Home
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/31/kim-jong-il-to-north-kore_n_1067272.html

11/22/2011 2:24:53 PM

Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Edited on November 22, 2011 at 3:33 PM. Reason : ]

11/22/2011 3:33:33 PM

^^nice, but something about that story stinks. like... it's unaware of what's been happening in the past 3 years. The cellphone allowance doesn't make sense against their argument of "The ban was an effort to prevent word of the often-violent Arab uprisings from reaching the isolated regime"

11/22/2011 7:10:43 PM

Quote :

"They probably just opened the amusement park as a house of horrors."

They should build a track running through the entire country and market it to the rest of the world as the largest house of horrors ride on Earth.

11/23/2011 12:11:29 PM

^^
1 million cell phones in a country of 24 million.

Quote :

"In April, South Korean Vice Unification minister Um Jong-Sik reported North Korean cell phone owners had risen to 450,000 from half that number last year. The Arab Spring dampened that surge, however, as the Kim dynasty began confiscating phones for fear "commoners" would use them to foment similar rebellions. The clampdown appears to have worked. As things currently stand, Orascom's 3G network covers only Pyongyang, phones remain luxury items costing nearly 25 times the average worker's salary, and Internet access to the outside world is prohibited."

http://www.mobiledia.com/news/117466.html

BTW, Orascom is the same company that has finished the facade on the Ryugyong Hotel. There's debate as to whether they finished the building or just put glass on it. Many believe that the elevator shafts are unusable due to poor engineering and inferior domestic concrete after the collapse of the USSR.

11/23/2011 12:31:12 PM

if he's not dead, he's at or near death. kind of like Fidel.

11/23/2011 4:02:44 PM

All seriousness, I doubt he's dead. If he were, I don't think that the current succession planning would be going nearly as smoothly. Nor do I think that the evidence presented makes any real sense in proving that he is.

1) I have no idea what this has to do with KJI.

2) When the GDP jumped from 2000 to 2001, what happened there? Did he die twice?

3) North Korea has been asking this for years.

4) Eh... no. There was the Cheonan which was sank the year before, a few botched commando operations in prior years. Meanwhile, while these aren't direct attacks, test firing ballistic missiles over your neighbors and detonating nuclear weapons would also be considered provocative actions in most policy circles.

5) Regarding cell phones, you could easily lock and monitor that network. If anything it might help you keep track of your citizens by forcing GPS to be constantly on.

11/23/2011 11:21:12 PM

dead

12/18/2011 10:07:06 PM

2011 has not been a kind year for dictators

12/18/2011 10:12:42 PM

Obama is sooooo clutch

12/18/2011 10:13:13 PM

I love how quick people are to change his article to past tense

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kim_Jong-il&action=historysubmit&diff=466627661&oldid=465297902

12/18/2011 10:16:01 PM

I didn't even know he was Il.

12/18/2011 10:27:14 PM

He's been Il for a jong time.

12/18/2011 10:34:45 PM

Obama - 2
Bush (father and son) - 0

12/18/2011 10:39:38 PM

Good news: "He's dead! Yay~!"

Bad news: "Wait, who's running the country now? Oh fu..."

12/18/2011 10:44:27 PM

iop1

12/18/2011 10:46:29 PM

Quote :

"Obama - 2 Bush (father and son) - 0"

srsly?

I mean, just think about that for a little while.

12/18/2011 10:47:18 PM

so this is his replacement?

12/18/2011 10:48:18 PM

You know what this means: we now need a "Kim Jong Il Is Alive!" thread.

12/18/2011 11:05:54 PM

Obama got gaddafi, too

12/18/2011 11:25:27 PM

He also got Saddam.

oh wait...nm

12/18/2011 11:28:18 PM

Anyone else wondering if maybe it would be better if this happened a few years down the road?

12/18/2011 11:32:18 PM

You know, if they didn't have a shitload of AAA and SAM sites, I would say lets start up a Berlin Airlift type deal as a show of good faith.

12/18/2011 11:39:45 PM

^^^ That was luck. They tripped over him.

12/18/2011 11:49:23 PM

^^ Civilian groups in SK have been doing that with balloons for a few years now. They were pissed off enough to send an assassin after the guy in charge.

12/19/2011 12:01:42 AM

I rawnt arr da tea in China. Yessss, arr of it.

12/19/2011 8:33:10 AM

^ reminds me of the picture of that fat lady in the bus window

Quote :

"I didn't even know he was Il."

It was such an obvious joke. and I still got a good chuckle out of it

12/19/2011 2:11:44 PM

-1000 cred points for GeniuSxBoY. That puts him at -1,000,000

12/19/2011 2:17:57 PM

Quote :

"Anyone else wondering if maybe it would be better if this happened a few years down the road?"

Yeah... part of me wants to say that. On one hand, good riddance. Yet at the same time, he didn't have sufficient time to ensure that his son was firmly installed. This could lead to some serious instability, especially if the inevitable power struggle gets ugly. Keep an eye on the purges; that'll show who's in charge. Just like in the 1990s.

12/19/2011 3:01:52 PM

Quote :

"Keep an eye on the purges"

I recall reading that there was a fairly large one in early 2010 after Kim Jong Un was announced as heir.
Found it:
http://www.freekorea.us/2011/01/12/more-purge-rumors-from-north-korea/

Quote :

"Anyone else wondering if maybe it would be better if this happened a few years down the road?"

Eh. If the Chinese economy doesn't have a soft landing and they're in a rough patch a few years down the road with high domestic dissatisfaction I could see them jump in with their own saber rattling over Korea, which could lead to who knows where. Of course, that's more of a worst case scenario.

12/19/2011 3:29:19 PM

Any one see the televised mourning of his death by the public on streets and in buildings?

And by mourning, I mean: heavy audible crying, shaking, arms flailing, kneeling on the floor, doing a sudden jittery 'dance', etc.

It looked so unreal, yet real.

My wife was like "did government people go up to people and say hey take 5 won and cry on tv?"

I was like more like "[with a gun to the head] hey cry on tv".

Didn't millions die in the famines? How can you love a leader such as that one, let alone to such an extent that you cry like a baby in the streets?

12/20/2011 6:43:40 AM

Because they are so shielded from the rest of the world and any knowledge of what a "normal" life is like in other countries. They are brainwashed from birth to think Dear Leader is God. I'm sure there are many who are honestly very upset by his death and the crying is real, even though it seems ridiculous to anyone outside of NK.

12/20/2011 7:59:34 AM

what a family tree

apparently, Dear Father/Leader, was Dear Pimp Daddy

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204791104577107891655666650.html?mod=googlenews_wsj#project%3DNKOREA0907%26articleTabs%3Dinteractive

12/20/2011 8:11:18 AM

Quote :

"Because they are so shielded from the rest of the world and any knowledge of what a "normal" life is like in other countries. They are brainwashed from birth to think Dear Leader is God. I'm sure there are many who are honestly very upset by his death and the crying is real, even though it seems ridiculous to anyone outside of NK."

Actually, there has been a lot of inflow of information; from talking with NGO groups, there's enough reports to indicate that Chinese and South Korean media are flowing in (smuggled DVDs for example). The impression they get is that most of them know that life is better outside the country; they may not fully appreciate the gap between North and South (in part because it defies imagination), but they do grasp the significant gap between the North and Koreans living in China. Most truly do respect Kim Il Sung, but many are old enough to know that life is now much worse under Kim Jong Il.

Outside a few of the party faithful, I'm pretty sure most of them are crying because a lack of sufficient tears and mourning would get you marked as a suspicious person and then potentially land you, your parents and your children in a prison camp.

12/20/2011 1:55:29 PM

Awesome book on North Korea if anyone is interested:
http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-North/dp/0385523904

12/20/2011 2:16:10 PM