http://www.examiner.com/american-pit-bull-in-national/north-carolina-ban-to-kill-numerous-breeds

This is a hot topic down here in Fayetteville right now...I hate this.

12/5/2011 1:50:23 PM

Interesting huskies made the list. I guess because they have a high owner turn-in rate compared to other breeds?

Anyway, I can completely understand why Cumberland County would do something like this. For the most part that seems to be a list of breeds that they have difficulty adopting out in the first place. The county doesn't have the money to keep all dogs indefinitely and I'm sure the shelter has faced budget cuts over the past few years. It sucks that people are shitty pet owners that don't fix their pets but what else is the county to do; just let them roam the streets because they don't have the money to hold them until they find homes? As long as they're euthanizing them humanely then I don't see much of a problem.

12/5/2011 1:55:34 PM

there are TOO MANY dogs and cats out there, period

12/5/2011 1:59:37 PM

while I agree with ^, I completely disagree with this policy.

12/5/2011 2:03:25 PM

So is there a real news source on this thing? All I'm seeing is stuff like this: http://our-compass.org/2011/12/01/new-policy-requires-all-chows-danes-dobermans-mastiffs-rotties-shepherds-all-bully-breeds-to-be-killed-nc-shelter/ with no actual links to the policy or anything.

And some of the comments in that article are cracking me up.

12/5/2011 2:11:30 PM

http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2011/12/04/1141342?sac=Local

and


http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2011/11/30/1140687?sac=Local


"We have an inordinate number of pit bulls in the county that are chasing people, chasing dogs, they're on school grounds and generally bother people," he said. "The reality is that about 80 percent of our calls are related to that particular breed."

Since April, Animal Control has taken in nearly 1,300 pit bulls, but only 124 have been adopted, Lauby said. It's the same problem for other "bully breed" dogs, he said.

The shelter has taken in 180 Rottweilers since April and only 26 have been adopted. Fifteen of the 96 chow-chows received at the shelter have been adopted, Lauby said.

12/5/2011 2:13:56 PM

^thx for linking those


I just wish they would do something else...like control the breeding and selling, etc. of dogs. People selling dogs like this out of their trucks at wal-marts and what not has got to stop.

It's not fair that these breeds are being targeted...i mean a "bully" breed includes boston terriers too and I don't see them as a harmful breed



[Edited on December 5, 2011 at 2:18 PM. Reason : sdf]

12/5/2011 2:17:19 PM

are great danes known for aggression at all?

12/5/2011 2:19:41 PM

some of these breeds are also discriminated against by insurance companies...if I had a pit bull and he injured someone, my homeowner's insurance would not cover it.

12/5/2011 2:20:14 PM

I agree that there are a lot of dogs out there, period. However, holding the dogs for 72 hours and NOT allowing them to be adopted is just wrong.

12/5/2011 2:21:26 PM

Noting how many of each breed have gone unadopted doesn't mean much unless they also note the stats for other breeds that aren't facing the ban. I'm sure some in-demand breeds have pretty high adoption rates, but there are likely plenty of other breeds with low adoption rates.

12/5/2011 2:22:36 PM

^^I agree. I also heard about a animal shelter employee who was fired recently because she found a home for an animal before the 72 hour period had elapsed. It was owner surrendered, and there was no space at the shelter, so she found it a home, and was fired for not "following protocol."

Also, wtf is Great Dane on that list for?

[Edited on December 5, 2011 at 2:22 PM. Reason : ]

12/5/2011 2:22:47 PM

^^^ how is it wrong? they would just sit around in the shelter and eventually be killed anyway

[Edited on December 5, 2011 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

12/5/2011 2:22:53 PM

Quote :

""We have an inordinate number of pit bulls in the county that are chasing people, chasing dogs, they're on school grounds and generally bother people," he said. "The reality is that about 80 percent of our calls are related to that particular breed." "

Sounds like Saipan. They have a big problem with boonie dogs as they call them. Mostly mutts with no discernible breed. But they run around the island like freaking squirrels, chasing kids on playgrounds, getting into dog fights in the middle of tourist attractions, etc. But between not having the money and there's no cultural push to limit their numbers or adopt them, they're just left to breed like crazy rather than trapping them. I seriously doubt Cumberland County wants to let it get to the point where there's so many of these stray dogs around that they start taking over the city streets like you see Garapan and Oleai on Saipan.

Quote :

"Also, wtf is Great Dane on that list for?"

If you look at the actual news articles, half the breeds listed on that blog or whatever aren't mentioned.

[Edited on December 5, 2011 at 2:30 PM. Reason : a]

12/5/2011 2:26:38 PM

First comment to mention genocide.

12/5/2011 2:42:23 PM

i dont suspect many great danes end up in shelters anyway

12/5/2011 4:29:04 PM

After working some in Fayetteville, I've come to the conclusion that there are more pit bulls than people in that city. I was a little uneasy with the number of single-wide trailers that had 4 or more pitbulls in the back with nothing more than a 3' chain link fence holding them in.

12/5/2011 5:04:01 PM

People get pretty bothered about the targeting of specific dog breeds, and I know we've seen it in threads about pitbulls on TWW. The fact is, some of dog breeds are more dangerous. Pitbulls can kill a person, but how many people get mauled by pugs every year?

12/5/2011 8:44:16 PM

^ this. What are they supposed to do with them - house unadopted pitbulls forever?

Yeah, it sucks, but folks down that way aren't exactly into the whole responsible pet owner spay/neuter thing by any stretch of the imagination.

12/5/2011 8:49:39 PM

honestly i cant really disagree with this policy

Saturday night i went out and walked from the office to the sand trap (both bars) and there was a pack of dogs in the Harris Teeter parking lot, i actually got a little freaked out about it but they didnt seem to notice us, we would have been in trouble if they had come up to us

12/5/2011 8:54:48 PM

First they came for the dogs, and I did nothing....

12/5/2011 8:55:47 PM

^^two bars I like

12/5/2011 8:58:51 PM

then we have probably met

12/5/2011 9:05:08 PM

Great Danes and Mastiffs? Why do they sleep too much?

12/5/2011 9:36:02 PM

Quote :

"If you look at the actual news articles, half the breeds listed on that blog or whatever aren't mentioned. "

12/5/2011 9:36:31 PM

they are probably impossible to adopt out, this isn't necessarily all about aggressive breeds (although it probably mostly is), but adoptability (is that a word?) and cutting costs

12/5/2011 9:56:58 PM

My Facebook feed has blown up about this, but I don't see anybody trying to adopt 20 Pit Bulls except those former prisoners and little people on TV.

12/5/2011 10:04:52 PM

^^ I don't think that's it at all.


and yeah, I'm surprised at Great Danes being on that list. I wasn't aware that they had any bad reputation at all. We had several of them when I was growing up...I would say that their temperament is more like "I'm 4' tall and 180 lbs and could bite your arm off like a boss, but don't start no shit and there won't be no shit." I definitely don't think that they're as passive as they're often made out to be, but they're certainly not aggressive.

12/5/2011 11:16:20 PM

The problem isn't that they are unadoptable, it's that there are too many dogs in general (like others said) and many don't want to adopt a "bully breed" because of their reputation. That's not the same as being actually unadoptable

12/6/2011 1:02:19 AM

I'm pretty sure that's not it. The argument in support of that claim is that by housing a "bad" breed for the normal amount of time before euthanizing, there is an opportunity cost that ultimately results in a greater total number of dogs going unadopted and having to be killed. In other words, if they normally keep a dog for, say, 2 weeks before killing it, and so-called dangerous breeds don't often get adopted, then they just take up a spot only to ultimately be killed, when if they'd just been killed after 72 hours, the shelter could adopt 3 golden retrievers out of the spot the doberman would have held.

Aside from the fact that I'm not convinced that dobermans and pitbulls are in low demand in fayetteville, or, like someone else said, that great danes tend to languish in shelters anywhere (generally speaking), that claim just doesn't make sense due to the fact that they DON'T EVEN ALLOW for the dogs to be adopted, no matter how quickly.

The only reason they don't march them straight through the door into the back to be killed is to give the owners a chance to track the dog down at the shelter and claim it if it's simply lost.

I think it's a liability thing, and/or a desire to reduce the numbers of large, potentially dangerous dogs in that area (probably one dickhead councilman's personal agenda) by whatever Machiavellian means necessary.

[Edited on December 6, 2011 at 2:03 AM. Reason : ]

12/6/2011 2:00:55 AM

I am talking about in general, and despite your argument you need to remember one thing: these shelters aren't full of golden retrievers. They're full of pit mixes, shepherd mixes, lab mixes (who are mixed with a bully breed a lot of the time), etc. The ultimate problem lies in the city not being able to control its dog population. You know what would be even better than doing this? Supporting a reduced cost spay and neuter program, or cracking down on fighting rings in the area. I can assure you that when you think of the man power that will be needed to euthanize this many dogs in addition to their normal duties/euthanizing amount and the amount of resources needed to complete the job (blue juice, gas in some shelters), I doubt the cost effectiveness would be that big of a deal.

And for the record, I was making that claim not in the rules as far as this law goes, I was just making a point that in general a dog being deemed unadoptable is not the same as it not having as good a chance of being adopted.

[Edited on December 6, 2011 at 4:57 AM. Reason : I just think its bullshit to discriminate against a certain breed, really]

12/6/2011 4:54:18 AM

Quote :

" and yeah, I'm surprised at Great Danes being on that list. I wasn't aware that they had any bad reputation at all. We had several of them when I was growing up...I would say that their temperament is more like "I'm 4' tall and 180 lbs and could bite your arm off like a boss, but don't start no shit and there won't be no shit." I definitely don't think that they're as passive as they're often made out to be, but they're certainly not aggressive."

Great Danes AREN'T on the list. If you look at the news, and not the cat lady blog, it's only breeds like pits and chows.

They just talked about this on NBC. Looks like what is actually going on is they want the people adopting these breeds to show they're not just using them for fighting and can afford to care for them, and that they will not hold then as long since they do have problems adopting out the breeds this law is aimed towards. That seems reasonable to me.

[Edited on December 6, 2011 at 7:02 AM. Reason : M]

12/6/2011 6:59:30 AM

Yeah Great Danes aren't too aggressive, but my wife was attacked by one when she was 8 or 9. Bit her on the back and chest. She had to have reconstructive surgery afterwards.

12/6/2011 7:18:12 AM

Quote :

"I just wish they would do something else...like control the breeding and selling, etc. of dogs. People selling dogs like this out of their trucks at wal-marts and what not has got to stop."

Disclaimer: I don't sell dogs out of my trunk at wal-mart.

How much is that going to help? Is the bulk of the problem breeders that turn any dog they don't sell loose into the community or is the problem people that get a dog and fail to properly take care of it? I guess that is why people are supposed to get a pet license, to pay for animal control to handle problems like overpopulation. The license fee is higher for a non fixed animal, but I guess they could require a pet breeder license (maybe they already do, I have no idea) but that would be little more than another means to collect money to deal with the problem, not a means of preventing the problem in the first place.

On a side note, do breeders spay/neuter their animals before they sell them off? I'd imagine that for the more expensive breeds they don't want someone else to get into their racket.

[Edited on December 6, 2011 at 8:00 AM. Reason : -]

12/6/2011 7:57:17 AM

Quote :

"The license fee is higher for a non fixed animal, but I guess they could require a pet breeder license (maybe they already do, I have no idea) but that would be little more than another means to collect money to deal with the problem, not a means of preventing the problem in the first place. On a side note, do breeders spay/neuter their animals before they sell them off? I'd imagine that for the more expensive breeds they don't want someone else to get into their racket."

Requiring a breeding license won't do jack. You'd have responsible breeders being penalized for being responsible and irresponsible breeders wouldn't bother to get the license and keep selling puppies out of the back of their truck. Penalties would get your further but good luck getting anything like that in the state considering the pork industry killed a puppy mill ban that was in the legislature.

As far as breeders fixing their animals before selling, that depends entirely on the breeder. For responsible breeders, you sign a contract when you buy the dog. That contract states whether the dog is for show purposes and therefore needs to stay intact, or if it's a non-breeding animal. Some breeders will take it upon themselves to get the dog fixed before selling it, but for most they're taking your word that you'll fix the dog after you take it home. For irresponsible breeders, they don't really give a shit what you do with the dog once you buy it. Their breeding stock is oftentimes inbred anyway so they're not really worrying about you going out there and ruining the "good name" of their stock by breeding yourself.

12/6/2011 8:17:00 AM

Yeah licensing won't solve any problem. Like I said, it would just be a means to collect revenue to treat a problem. Also, nothing directed toward the breeder would solve the problem, you're always going to have the breeder that won't bother with whatever and sell an animal out of the back of their truck. That's probably why they just collect their money and use it to try to treat the problem, because there isn't a good way to prevent the problem.

Not picking on you, honestly, but I don't see how that contract makes any difference. It would be nice if everyone kept their word, but if someone signs the contract and then they don't get their dog fixed who comes after them? Besides, that breeder contract doesn't exists to curb the dog population. It exists to make sure that if I sell you a great dane today you aren't out here selling great danes next year.

[Edited on December 6, 2011 at 8:44 AM. Reason : -]

12/6/2011 8:39:47 AM

Quote :

"Not picking on you, honestly, but I don't see how that contract makes any difference. Besides, that breeder contract doesn't exists to curb the dog population. It exists to make sure that if I sell you a great dane today you aren't out here selling great danes next year."

I'm not sure why you'd be picking on me since I don't breed dogs I'm just telling you what the contracts are and what they're there for. Again, any responsible breeder doesn't want to be the cause of a shitload of puppies being born from their stock by an unscrupulous breeder. So in a way, yes, those contracts are about curbing the unwanted population. If breeders were wanting all of the puppies they sold fixed because they don't want it cutting into their profits, then they're irresponsible breeders. Any breeder that would be considered responsible is mostly breeding for love of the breed, not to make money. With the amount of money that goes into the veterinary care, buying dogs to better your stock, etc, you usually just end up breaking even rather than making money. The breeders that make money on their dogs are the ones pumping them out like rabbits and not seeing to the veterinary care or improvement of the breed.

12/6/2011 8:47:17 AM

Quote :

"Not picking on you, honestly,"

Quote :

"I'm not sure why you'd be picking on me"

Now I am picking on you.

[Edited on December 6, 2011 at 8:51 AM. Reason : -]

12/6/2011 8:50:29 AM

I'm saying that even if you left out your disclaimer, I wouldn't have considered your comment as you picking on me, since I don't breed dogs. Ya dig, man?

12/6/2011 8:53:45 AM

Quote :

"many don't want to adopt a "bully breed" because of their reputation."

I wonder for how many people, it's also because they rent. My current apartment is pretty lax about breed restrictions, but the one I lived in last, when I walked into a shelter a full 50-70% of the dogs in that shelter were unadoptable because the shelter had classified them as a shepherd mix, or a pit bix, or a rottie mix, or any other "aggressive breed". Even if it was obvious that the dog was primarily another breed (pointer, hound, etc) the fact that it had any pit or shepherd meant I couldn't adopt the dog. Hell, I had to get a written letter from the managers just to adopt a husky mix. There should really be a push to get apartments to reconsider their restricted breed lists, it might open up adoption possibilities to lots of dogs

12/6/2011 9:26:09 AM

It's blanket policies that get to people, and this is a bad one.

MrLuvaLuva85's boxer is really sweet and would maybe lick you to death if she felt comfortable around you.

My girlfriend's dog lives with me, a German Shepherd, and he wouldn't harm a fly. He has the sweetest demeanor. He actually got out one time and my neighbor commented on how pleasant he was.

Anybody that came into contact with these two examples of "bully breeds" would not feel they needed to be put down.

[Edited on December 6, 2011 at 9:28 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on December 6, 2011 at 9:53 AM. Reason : ]

12/6/2011 9:27:43 AM

Quote :

"There should really be a push to get apartments to reconsider their restricted breed lists, it might open up adoption possibilities to lots of dogs"

Except the reason apartments restrict breeds is for liability reasons. You let a renter keep a dog that has been classified an "aggressive breed" and one day it runs out and mauls a kid, then you're dealing with a lawsuit from the parents. Complexes would just rather impose blanket bans than deal with the courts. Now if you had some sort of tort reform that said those parents could sue the individual owner and not the complex, then you might see some change. But even then, whatever company you have renter's insurance with might cancel your policy if they find out you have a pit bull or something. It all gets super complicated.

12/6/2011 9:30:15 AM

Quote :

"It's blanket policies that get to people, and this is a bad one. MrLuvaLuva85's pitbull is really sweet and would maybe lick you to death if she felt comfortable around you. My girlfriend's dog lives with me, a German Shepherd, and he wouldn't harm a fly. He has the sweetest demeanor. He actually got out one time and my neighbor commented on how pleasant he was. Anybody that came into contact with these two examples of "bully breeds" would not feel they needed to be put down."

While probably true, those are only 2 dogs. They are the exception rather than the rule.

From a big picture standpoint, I don't really see they have any viable options that won't require massive influx of money.

12/6/2011 9:37:07 AM

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2011/12/06/1142020?sac=Home

Cumberland County Animal Control Board backed away Monday night from a move to limit adoptions of some breeds from the county shelter.

Instead, the board directed Dr. John Lauby, the animal control director, to look into ways the county can more carefully vet the people who adopt animals from the shelter to ensure they'll be responsible owners.

...


Lauby said dog adoptions since he took over Animal Control have increased from 700 per year to about 2,000, but the county still euthanizes some 11,000 dogs per year.

12/6/2011 9:52:56 AM

I know some animal shelters will spay and neuter every pet that comes through its doors before adoption. I mean, there's a fee. But at least it cuts down on the over population issue. And the 2 day waiting period while the dog recovers from the surgery typically weeds out the finicky owners who aren't really sure they want a new puppy.

12/6/2011 10:05:56 AM

i think the problem is that a lot of these breeds attract (or don't attract) people for the wrong reasons. as a general rule, i would imagine there is a pretty big difference between someone who aspires to own a labradoodle and someone who wants a pitbull.

12/6/2011 10:06:25 AM

^^ Yeah I think almost all shelters in the Triangle do that now. I think it's a good thing for sure.

12/6/2011 10:09:22 AM

^ while your last statement sucks, in reality it's true. you'll always have those of us who just love them and ne they're big babies, but this is getting down to a "too many people want to dog fight" issue

12/6/2011 10:10:32 AM

it's not just an issue of dog fighting in Fayetteville. Most of the property owners probably have the meanest dogs they can get to deter crackheads from breaking into their homes and stealing shit. The dog owners probably don't even like the dogs as pets, and if they run away then they'll just go get a new one. They're not going to bother spending money to spay/neuter them either.

12/6/2011 11:13:47 AM

I think our county needs to look at other options...do their homework...this just seemed like a quick fix and I'm glad it got dropped and I'm glad the community is now aware of the situation.

cumberland county (and everywhere) needs to look at places where there is success with stray animals. I, for one, have neither the time nor the expertise to really try and help, but I hope that those who do really get involved

[Edited on December 6, 2011 at 11:36 AM. Reason : asdf]

12/6/2011 11:35:34 AM