http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jan/03/collier-judge-upholds-stand-your-ground-defense-ca/?partner=popular

Quote :

"NAPLES — A 15-year-old who fatally stabbed his school mate will no longer face criminal prosecution. A judge’s ruling, made public Tuesday, granted a motion to dismiss the second-degree murder charge against Jorge Saavedra in the death of 16-year-old Dylan Nuno on the grounds that he acted in self-defense under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law. The State Attorney’s Office has indicated that it will not appeal the ruling. Nuno’s family and friends criticized Collier County Circuit Judge Lauren Brodie’s decision, calling it “unbelievable” and “heartbreaking.” “We know this wasn’t the right decision,” said Dylan’s aunt, Adriana Nuno.“(The judge) is showing those kids it’s OK to get away with murder.” Saavedra, who was 14 at the time of the stabbing, was charged as a juvenile. If found guilty, the former Palmetto Ridge High student would have been released by the age of 21. Brodie’s ruling concluded that Saavadra, who said he was bullied and tried avoid a fight with Nuno, did not act unlawfully. She added that Saavadra had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm. Brodie based her decision this week on the findings from a two-day December hearing, during which students who witnessed the events Jan. 24, 2011, testified that several teens announced the fight on the bus, and Saavedra got off several stops early in Golden Gate Estates. Saavedra showed a pocket knife to two teens on the bus that afternoon. In a nine-page document released Tuesday by the State Attorney’s Office, Brodie stated that by getting off the bus several stops before the location where the fight was to happen, Saavedra “demonstrated that, with or without a knife, (he) had no desire to fight with Dylan Nuno.” Accompanied by several students, Dylan Nuno, a junior, followed Saavedra, a freshman, off the bus. He then punched him in the back of the head, according to court documents and testimony. Saavedra attempted to get away once, witnesses said. He then stabbed Dylan Nuno 12 times in the chest and abdomen. Two of the blows caused fatal wounds, including one that nicked his heart. In her decision, signed Dec. 30, 2011, the judge said Saavedra had “no duty to retreat” and was “legally entitled to meet force with force, even deadly force.” “The defendant was in a place where he had a right to be and was not acting unlawfully. He had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm ... (He) was under attack from the first punch to the back of his head until he stabbed Dylan Nuno.” Prosecutors will not be appealing the case, a move that upset Dylan Nuno’s family and friends. “We’ve reviewed the decision,” said Samantha Syoen, spokeswoman for the State Attorney’s Office. “There does not appear to be any issues to appeal.” Saavedra’s lawyer, Donald Day, called the case “a tragedy all the way around.” Saavedra is currently living with his family in Miami. “My reaction is there is no winner at all in this case,” Day said. “My client’s family feels terribly for the Nuno family.” The judge’s decision came as a surprise to Adriana Aradas, 19, a close friend of Dylan Nuno who sat with his family for the December hearing, wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with messages for the teen. “I wasn’t’ expecting that at all,” Aradas said. “At the last hearing, there was so much against Jorge.” During that hearing, students recounted for the judge previous altercations between the two teens, including one instance on the bus when something was lobbed from the back, where Dylan Nuno sat, to the front, where Saavedra was. The judge also highlighted that Saavedra would skip school or find other ways home to avoid the bus. Though the judge’s order does not mention the term “bullying,” which was heavily used by the defense, it does describe “taunting comments” from Dylan Nuno and two other male teens shortly before the fight. Dylan Nuno’s family and friends have defended the teen, saying repeatedly he was not a bully and in fact transferred from Lely High School to Palmetto Ridge to escape taunting himself. Their hopes for a bench trial before Brodie are now gone, weeks before the anniversary of his death and what would have been Dylan Nuno’s 18th birthday. “Brodie’s decision is not setting a good example for children or adults,” said Kim Maxwell, Dylan Nuno’s mother. “I truly do not want this type of tragedy to happen to another innocent family.” Yet after months of seeing Saavedra in the courtroom, there is some closure in the fact that they will no longer have to see the teen’s killer on what at times in 2011 was on a monthly basis. “Whatever happens, whether (Saavedra) would have gotten time, it’s not going to bring Dylan back,” said Adriana Nuno. “We’ll have to move on, unfortunately without our Dylan.”"

1/4/2012 10:11:15 AM

Sounds like a bully got the ultimate comeuppance.

1/4/2012 10:12:32 AM

I made 'em think they beat me to death, holding my breath for like 5 minutes until they finally left.

1/4/2012 10:12:38 AM

Quote :

"A judge’s ruling, made public Tuesday, granted a motion to dismiss the second-degree murder charge against Jorge Saavedra in the death of 16-year-old Dylan Nuno on the grounds that he acted in self-defense under Florida’s “Come At Me Bro” law. The State Attorney’s Office has indicated that it will not appeal the ruling."

1/4/2012 10:12:59 AM

good

1/4/2012 10:13:34 AM

Great ruling.

1/4/2012 10:13:59 AM

1 less bullying asshat on the planet.

1/4/2012 10:14:30 AM

Sounds like self defense to me.

Dyne's opinion on this is obvious... some people should be above the law and allowed to beat the shit out of other kids, possibly killing or seriously injuring them.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:17 AM. Reason : .]

1/4/2012 10:15:47 AM

12 times is a tad excessive.

1/4/2012 10:16:27 AM

What's excessive? If the attacker is still coming at you, then you should just give up and take it?

1/4/2012 10:17:45 AM

I want to know what happened immediately after the first time he was stabbed.

That's what would tip my opinion one way or another.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:18 AM. Reason : And apparently there was a bus full of witnesses.]

1/4/2012 10:17:50 AM

1/4/2012 10:18:07 AM

12 times with a pocket knife isn't exactly 12 times with a butcher's knife either.

If someone punched me in the back of the head, surrounded by his bully friends, and had been tormenting me for months, I'd end it too.

1/4/2012 10:18:24 AM

I would think the attacker would be stopped after the 4th or 5th stab. Stabs 6-12 are over the top unless you're battling Mr T. or something.

1/4/2012 10:19:23 AM

Quote :

"Dyne's opinion on this is obvious... some people should be above the law and allowed to beat the shit out of other kids, possibly killing or seriously injuring them."

Wat?

1/4/2012 10:19:26 AM

Quote :

"KING KONG AIN'T GOT SHIT ON ME"

1/4/2012 10:19:30 AM

^^

Quote :

"Teen stabs bully to death, gets away with it"

As opposed to something more along the lines of "Teen stabs bully in self defense"

1/4/2012 10:20:27 AM

Quote :

"12 times is a tad excessive."

Not to say this is what happened but the one kid was like 3 years older than him and probably a good deal bigger. Having someone bigger and older trying to beat the shit out of you chances are you're just going to throw as much as you have as quick as you can. I imagine he was flailing around a good bit.

Besides if you've ever seen young guys fight half the time its just fast wild punches or flailing arms trying to make contact.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:26 AM. Reason : ]

1/4/2012 10:23:24 AM

Quote :

"“We know this wasn’t the right decision,” said Dylan’s aunt, Adriana Nuno.“(The judge) is showing those kids it’s OK to get away with murder defend yourself from bodily harm when you are outnumbered and being assaulted.”"

Yea fuck that bully. He got what was coming to him. And fuck this cunt too.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:26 AM. Reason : ]

1/4/2012 10:25:52 AM

what would the story be if Saavedra had went white and commited suicide? or pulled a columbine on the bus?

1/4/2012 10:26:39 AM

What does your hypothetical have to do with anything?

1/4/2012 10:27:26 AM

I mean, I don't really think the guy getting attacked was in the wrong. It's a shame someone had to die though.

1/4/2012 10:28:10 AM

I wish we had some sort of fighting law.

If you start a fight in any way with someone... what happens from that point on is your own fucking fault.

Adrenaline is a difficult thing to control so once you insight that adrenaline response from someone... what happens from that point on is your own damned fault.

All this "he/she got pushed to far and he just snapped now he's in jail" stuff sucks.. the people that pushed him too far should be the ones in jail and if he/she kills them... the transaction is done.


[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:33 AM. Reason : .]

1/4/2012 10:31:24 AM

^^ it's called "accountability" for one's actions

the shit bag who started the fight found out he was not big enough to finish it

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:33 AM. Reason : ^^]

1/4/2012 10:32:56 AM

^^That's the right of self-defense. If you start a fight, they can retaliate. They can't escalate the fight to a point. (i.e. you spit on them, and they shoot you in the head). Escalation means it's a mitigated self defense. Also, if you start a fight, and then walk away and leave the fight, then their right to self-defense ceases at that point.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:33 AM. Reason : ]

1/4/2012 10:33:39 AM

but we have escalation laws in NC where if some else starts the fight and you draw a weapon in defense, you are now considered the aggressor.

1/4/2012 10:34:42 AM

Quote :

"I mean, I don't really think the guy getting attacked was in the wrong. It's a shame someone had to die though."

I agree that it's excessive and it sucks the kid died for being a stupid kid. If you provoke and bully someone constantly, there's a chance they're going to snap. Seems like that's what happened.

1/4/2012 10:36:03 AM

^^To a certain extent, and it's very fact specific. If you're getting beat up to the extent that you fear for your life, you can pull out that gun. It's not just a weapon vs. different weapon thing.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:36 AM. Reason : ]

1/4/2012 10:36:10 AM

^^^ how else are the district attorneys going to keep their position?

most NC D.A.s have been in the same position for years, some for DECADES

which leads to "good ole" boy politics and makes it easy to charge someone for anything and collect money for the "skool system"

North Carolina District Attorneys are the largest revenue collectors in each county aside from the cops that do their bidding

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:38 AM. Reason : ^^^]

1/4/2012 10:37:54 AM

Yes, but the laws are murky/contradictory. If someone starts wailing on me, then I hope I have the ability to defend myself by whatever means necessary. However, escalation, in my opinion, refers to the original act not endangering life/serious harm, i.e. get pushed, spit on, yelled at, single punch, etc.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:38 AM. Reason : .]

1/4/2012 10:37:59 AM

I agree with that in concept, but it could never be properly executed. That's why the laws are murky and contradictory, because it's so fact specific, and every case is different, there's not really a way to know before hand.

1/4/2012 10:41:06 AM

^agreed. Firearm laws/self defense discussions are difficult due to law, concepts, and reality all sort of clashing into each other.

1/4/2012 10:42:35 AM

+

1/4/2012 10:44:45 AM

and that leads to the fact that ultimately it's in the jury's hands and most of the time the jury pool isn't favorable for the upper middle class because we always look for excuses not to go to court (because we actually have work to do) so we have no peers to judge in our favor.

1/4/2012 10:45:30 AM

Quote :

"I would think the attacker would be stopped after the 4th or 5th stab."

someone doesn't know anything about adrenaline or "fight or flight"

1/4/2012 10:45:34 AM

Quote :

"and that leads to the fact that ultimately it's in the jury's hands and most of the time the jury pool isn't favorable for the upper middle class because we always look for excuses not to go to court (because we actually have work to do) so we have no peers to judge in our favor."

Not anymore. Victims are protected from civil/criminal prosecution in self defense cases, and rightly so.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:46 AM. Reason : .]

1/4/2012 10:46:33 AM

^^Exactly....


Because it's so easy to control yourself when you black out with rage/fear over being attacked.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:47 AM. Reason : .]

1/4/2012 10:46:55 AM

1/4/2012 10:48:35 AM

Quote :

"I would think the attacker would be stopped after the 4th or 5th stab. Stabs 6-12 are over the top unless you're battling Mr T. or something."

Such a rule is irrelevant. It's a situational issue. Is the attacker still attacking? Apparently so, since the judge ruled self defense. The number of stabs/shots/etc. is meaningless; however many it takes to end the attack is appropriate. In this case, a smaller boy with a small pocket knife defended is life and apparently it took about 12 stabs to stop the attack. Could the last few stabs be unnecessary? Sure, but in the situation it's hard to tell if #9 or #10 ended the attack. The kid is fearing for his life and trying to stop the attack. Plus adrenaline is running along with that fear.

Excessive is when the attack is clearly over and the victim continues with their actions.

[Edited on January 4, 2012 at 10:52 AM. Reason : .]

1/4/2012 10:50:18 AM

This shit is old in terms of Florida law about being able to shoot someone if they try to fight you at a bar and threaten your safety.

1/4/2012 10:50:22 AM

Dylan



Saavedra

1/4/2012 10:50:27 AM

gay kids

1/4/2012 11:00:44 AM

that kid should have gotten up after the ruling and been all

1/4/2012 11:00:58 AM

Dylan looks like a chode.

1/4/2012 11:02:38 AM

dont start no shit, wont be no shit

1/4/2012 11:06:38 AM

Quick, someone list the 5 best dead bullies of all time

1/4/2012 11:12:23 AM

ahahhahahaha

win^

1/4/2012 11:14:29 AM

Quote :

"12 times is a tad excessive. "

12 stabs with a pocket knife would be pulled off in about 6 seconds during an actual fight, and the aggressor wouldn't even know he had been stabbed until he starts noticing blood. Nuno probably didn't stop fighting even after he had been stabbed 12 times; it probably wasn't until Saavedra backed away and noticed what had just happened. I've heard law enforcement personnel say numerous times that knife fights are more deadly than gun fights because you don't even know you're in one until it's too late.

Saavedra showed the knife to Nuno on the bus, and Nuno decided it was in his best interest to attack him anyway? Sounds like the gene pool might have just been taken up a notch in Florida.

1/4/2012 11:17:06 AM

The leading cause of death in 15-30 year old males is not bending the bill of their hats and leaving the stickers on.

1/4/2012 11:24:38 AM

^lol I must be old because I don't get the flat brim nonsense


put some bend in your cap son

1/4/2012 11:28:25 AM