do tell.

4/17/2012 1:37:52 AM

Circle of Life yo. Embrace it.

4/17/2012 2:51:59 AM

I'm going to die. Everyone does. Doesn't bother me and I rarely think about it.
Every once in a while I think about things I have done that were dangerous and/or stupid.


I carry a gun for long winded reasons related to this topic.

4/17/2012 2:56:00 AM

I'm going to die. Everyone does. Doesn't bother me and I rarely think about it.
Every once in a while I think about things I have done that were dangerous and/or stupid.


I carry a gun for long winded reasons related to this topic.

4/17/2012 3:25:40 AM

I'm not at all afraid of dying, in fact I'm incredibly curious. I would rather die a grizzly death doing something I loved, like riding my motorcycle, than pass quietly. That does not mean I want to die young -- there is a lot I want to accomplish and experience in these few short years on this planet, but as long as I'm living well I'm not afraid to die young because I suspect that, upon my death, all mortal concerns are precisely moot. However, I don't want my parents to have to bury me or my loved ones to see me go before they were ready. So for that reason I am taking the precautions that generally "sane" people take to preserve my existence, within the context of still living a fulfilling life. Hopefully, if all goes well, I'll leave the place a little better than I found it.

I carry a gun because I think they're cool and maybe one day I'll have the opportunity to save a life. Also for other long winded reasons related to this topic.

4/17/2012 4:39:19 AM

I think I'd be fine with dying as long as 1) it's on my terms, and 2) I have time to prepare for it. Like getting my affairs in order and saying my goodbyes to make it as easy as possible for my loved ones.

I just don't want to die some gruesome or unexpected way like in a collapsing building or a sinking ship where my final moments are filled with panic.

4/17/2012 6:54:38 AM

Personally this is something I think about a lot.

For one, I really want to see my daughter grow up. She is the coolest thing I have ever seen, and I would be missing out big time if I didn't get to see her play sports, graduate, get married, etc. On the same token, I don't want her to have to grow up without her daddy, because from my experience, things often do not turn out well for girls that grow up without a dad or with a shitty dad.

I also constantly think about mortality and what will happen after I die. I have pretty much convinced myself that most of modern religion is fabricated in order to support personal interests and such. However I can make no claim as to being nearly as sure about the origins of the universe, and the possibility of a creator existing. There are a lot of compelling arguments both for and against the existence of some kind of creator, and I am not the type of person who can dismiss either side as being 100% wrong. So yeah, while if I had to guess, I'd say once we die, we just die - to say that I am not quite curious and constantly thinking about the possibilities of an afterlife would be a lie.

4/17/2012 7:01:27 AM

The older I get the less I think about it, also the less it bothers me. I'm not one to dwell on it either.

4/17/2012 7:10:43 AM

I really worry about it more for my family sake. I don't want to die, but while it used to be purely for selfish reasons, now it is not so much about shit I haven't done, but about how would my boys grow up without their father to teach them right and wrong, lead their scout group, take them to see cool stuff, give them their first beer, etc. I want to be there for that shit, not some other guy my wife picks up after I'm gone.

I'm honestly glad I had kids earlier because I want them to get to know and learn from my dads parents, because my grandmother is very sweet, but my grandfather is probably the coolest grandfather ever. I really like my dad don't get me wrong, but even in his late 70s and early 80s my grandpa builds computers, makes all kinds of furniture, runs a business that he repairs appliances, frames pictures, and does so many things that other people his age no longer have the ability to do, if they ever could. When we are in town my kids are more interested in my mother-in-law (she lives around the corner) who feeds them a diet of 100% candy and says she has no rules because that is not a grandmothers job, I hope that my grandparents live long enough for my children to appreciate them and remember them when they grow up.

4/17/2012 7:32:42 AM

Quote :

"He who fears death either fears the loss of sensation or a different kind of sensation. But if thou shalt have no sensation, neither wilt thou feel any harm; and if thou shalt acquire another kind of sensation, thou wilt be a different kind of living being and thou wilt not cease to live. "

- Marcus Aurelius


[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 7:48 AM. Reason : .]

4/17/2012 7:48:02 AM

I'm just trying to stay alive until the singularity, at which point I will have my consciousness uploaded to the cloud.

4/17/2012 8:11:48 AM

Quote :

"I'm going to die. Everyone does. Doesn't bother me and I rarely think about it. Every once in a while I think about things I have done that were dangerous and/or stupid."

+1

However, these days, perhaps for the last year or so, I have kind of started to think about dying a lot more, but only because I have a little daughter and I feel (if I were to die in the near future) she would miss me a lot, and of course, I would also miss out on her growing up.

4/17/2012 8:24:50 AM

I'm not afraid of dying. I just really don't like the idea of not being alive.

4/17/2012 8:52:46 AM

if i make it to a point where i cant take care of myself my plan is to go on a permanent hunger strike. i dont want to live in the old folks home. that aint livin

i really only think about dying when i hop on my motorcycle. but of course i rationalize it by believing that it is about 37 times more fatal per mile than driving a car and i drive my truck about 37 times more miles. so its a toss up statistically.

4/17/2012 1:26:38 PM

hakuna matata?

4/17/2012 1:49:05 PM

Do they have TWW in heaven?

4/17/2012 1:54:45 PM

death freaks me out. i try not to think about it.

4/17/2012 1:55:54 PM

It's curious how the people who have come to grips with their mortality are the ones who are confident that they won't be going on afterwards.

Myself, it's clear that no part of the consciousness will survive the destruction of my brain so that'll be the end of me. It's also certain to happen. I try to remind myself about my mortality daily if only to let my family know that I appreciate the time that we have together.

I think of it like going to sleep only not waking up. I think we really would get sick of existing eternally but would have appreciated more than <100 years to contemplate it.

4/17/2012 3:20:24 PM

Quote :

"Myself, it's clear that no part of the consciousness will survive the destruction of my brain so that'll be the end of me."

The end of "you" as you exist now, but you can't be certain of what happens after.

4/17/2012 8:36:31 PM

^not certain, but very very likely

[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 8:45 PM. Reason : a]

4/17/2012 8:40:38 PM

Quote :

"^so since it is not certain then you should believe the same thing desert preachers came up with 3 thousand years ago. got it"

Ehhhh? All I said was you can't be certain that your consciousness will blink out completely. Don't be puttin words in my mouth.

Quote :

"^not certain, but very very likely "

Based on what evidence?

[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 8:46 PM. Reason : .]

4/17/2012 8:42:59 PM

^my bad

based on the lack of evidence

[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 8:49 PM. Reason : a]

4/17/2012 8:46:14 PM

Quote :

"based on the lack of evidence"

You can't say that it's very unlikely because there is nothing to base your position on. I think a more reasonable position would be that it's more likely than some kind of heaven. There are other alternatives, however, when you consider all of the scientific unknowns of the universe.

[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 8:58 PM. Reason : .]

4/17/2012 8:55:13 PM

^i tried to say there nothing to base your opinion on

4/17/2012 8:59:29 PM

I'm going to die. Everyone does. Doesn't bother me and I rarely think about it.
Every once in a while I think about things I have done that were dangerous and/or stupid.


I carry a gun for long winded reasons related to this topic.

4/17/2012 9:00:06 PM

Quote :

"^i tried to say there nothing to base your opinion on"

I don't have an opinion. You're assuming that "our consciousness will blink out of existence" is the the default, which it isn't. There is no proof of this and no reason to say it's the most likely outcome.

4/17/2012 9:03:21 PM

It's not the death part I'm worried about. It's the dying part.

4/17/2012 9:17:09 PM

Quote :

"You're assuming that "our consciousness will blink out of existence" is the the default, which it isn't"

your consciousness is just a shit ton of chemical reactions in your brain. your brain does not function after death. what part am i missing here

4/17/2012 9:17:50 PM

I used to never think about death until I started taking classes for my bio degree and realized how many ways you could die easily. Also a bunch of people I am acquainted with started dying.
I'm just terrified about the fact that it could be coming at any time and I won't have any idea. My life could be 99% over with right now and I'm just blissfully unaware.

Also I'm really afraid that it's gonna be horribly painful, like if I die in a car wreck or drown or something.

4/17/2012 9:18:33 PM

Quote :

"your consciousness is just a shit ton of chemical reactions in your brain. "

No, no one has figured out what consciousness is or where it originates from. Our brain manipulates our consciousness, but we can't be sure of anything else.

4/17/2012 9:21:28 PM

Quote :

" I'm going to die. Everyone does. Doesn't bother me and I rarely think about it. Every once in a while I think about things I have done that were dangerous and/or stupid. I carry a gun for long winded reasons related to this topic"

4/17/2012 9:43:46 PM

I think about it fairly regularly. From the current perspective, it's no big deal. It's inevitable. If I've gotten the religion thing right, it shouldn't be a big deal. If I got it wrong, well, it's not like I'll be upset after I'm worm food. All of these are good reasons to not get worked up about it.

But (contrary to what might be said of those with a less flattering view of religion) I'm also realistic. It's easy to be nonchalant about it right now. If I were bleeding out on a sidewalk or sitting in a hospital bed with metastatic cancer destroying all my vital organs, I might sing a very different tune. I'd like to think I'd face the inevitable with some grace and a sense of humor, but neither I nor anybody else can rule out the prospect of screaming like a coward at the end.

For now, the refrain whenever I do something stupidly dangerous (like lighting a cigarette or charging into the middle of a South American riot to see what's going on) is "Everybody's gotta die of something."

4/17/2012 10:33:39 PM

Quote :

"Also I'm really afraid that it's gonna be horribly painful, like if I die in a car wreck or drown or something."

I used to be afraid of this. I still don't enjoy the thought of a painful death, but I was in a car accident that could have killed me a few years ago. The last thing I remember was "this might suck," and I have no recollection of any pain. So now I don't fear that kind of death too much anymore for my own reasons. Of course I want to make sure I have all my life's ducks in a row, but I'm not certain that's ever entirely possible.

Having watched my grandmother die slowly, and now seeing my dad diagnosed with a degenerative disease, I'd much rather go quickly. I partially feel that way for my own sake, but it's more so those who love me. Watching someone die without being able to do anything about it is a lot harder than having them dead.

4/17/2012 11:13:51 PM

Quote :

"No, no one has figured out what consciousness is or where it originates from. Our brain manipulates our consciousness, but we can't be sure of anything else."

Everything we know about neurology suggests that it is produced by our brain. We can physically manipulate our brain and change personalities, memories, the very things that define your consciousness. Damage a particular lobe, and you lose part of it. Damage a different lobe, and you lose a corresponding part of it. Destroy the entire thing, and it makes absolutely no sense that anything would come out on the other side intact.

Dualism is an illusion. Lose an arm and you're still you. Hell lose your heart and you're still you. Lose your brain and you're gone. What evidence do you have that anything that makes you you will persist past this? The evidence suggests that when your brain goes, you go.

Sam Harris:

Quote :

"Science is not in principle committed to the idea that there’s no afterlife or that the mind is identical to the brain… If it’s true that consciousness is being run like software on the brain and can – by virtue of ectoplasm or something else we don’t understand – be dissociated from the brain at death, that would be part of our growing scientific understanding of the world if we discover it… But there are very good reasons to think it’s not true. We know this from 150 years of neurology where you damage areas of the brain, and faculties are lost… You can cease to recognize faces, you can cease to know the names of animals but you still know the names of tools… What we’re being asked to consider is that you damage one part of the brain, and something about the mind and subjectivity is lost, you damage another and yet more is lost, [but] you damage the whole thing at death, we can rise off the brain with all our faculties intact, recognizing grandma and speaking English! "

Quote :

"You can't say that it's very unlikely because there is nothing to base your position on. I think a more reasonable position would be that it's more likely than some kind of heaven. There are other alternatives, however, when you consider all of the scientific unknowns of the universe."

Neuroscience is hardly "nothing to base your position on." We have plenty of evidence that your consciousness is inescapably tied to the physical state of your brain. The conclusion most supported by this evidence is that consciousness will not persist the destruction of the brain. Now, where's the evidence that it will?

[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 11:56 PM. Reason : .]

4/17/2012 11:46:36 PM

Quote :

"We have plenty of evidence that your consciousness is inescapably tied to the physical state of your brain. The conclusion most supported by this evidence is that consciousness will not persist the destruction of the brain"

No...we don't. We haven't even reached consensus on a definition of the word. There is no tangible evidence, only assumptions.

We could argue about this forever--all I can really say is that illicit substances have changed my opinion on the matter. I don't believe any certain thing, I'm just open to alternatives.

4/18/2012 12:34:32 AM

There are worse things than dying. Seems like a waste though.

4/18/2012 12:41:27 AM

Quote :

"No...we don't. We haven't even reached consensus on a definition of the word. There is no tangible evidence, only assumptions. We could argue about this forever--all I can really say is that illicit substances have changed my opinion on the matter. I don't believe any certain thing, I'm just open to alternatives. "

I have presented tangible evidence.

Hell, every piece of evidence in every scientific field supporting every scientific conclusion supports a naturalistic view of existence. Ergo, every piece of evidence in every scientific field supports consciousness being a direct product of our physical self.

This is not an inarguable point. My side has the bulk of scientific understanding behind it. I'm not even sure what your side has. Conjecture? You say illicit substances have changed your opinion on the matter. Which way, exactly? To me, the hallucinatory effects of illicit substances PROVES how instrincally tied to your physical brain your consciousness is. Insert chemical, change consciousness. How much more explicit can you get?

This is the main point: Only if you have reason to believe that some part of your self is independent from your physical body would you have any reason to believe that part could survive your physical death. We have every reason (science) to think that your consciousness is contingent entirely on your physical brain, even if we can't fully define it yet.

What reason do we have to think that any part of your mind is not contingent on your physical brain?

Quote :

" I don't believe any certain thing, I'm just open to alternatives."

You should believe that which is well supported by evidence. To ignore all the evidence suggesting we're just gray matter is just wishful thinking. You're latching onto hope that simply because we don't yet fully understand consciousness (truly, when will we fully understand anything anyway?) that it may yet have supernatural basis. You're ignoring that one of the things we do understand about consciousness is that it is entirely natural, like everything else.

4/18/2012 1:11:32 AM

Quote :

"You should believe that which is well supported by evidence."

I don't agree that it's well supported by evidence. You're free to interpret scientific findings as you wish, as am I. I don't agree that we are even near the point of making definitive conclusions.

Quote :

"To ignore all the evidence suggesting we're just gray matter is just wishful thinking. You're latching onto hope that simply because we don't yet fully understand consciousness (truly, when will we fully understand anything anyway?) that it may yet have supernatural basis. You're ignoring that one of the things we do understand about consciousness is that it is entirely natural, like everything else."

I'm not latching onto anything. I don't hope for anything. You're putting words in my mouth by saying that I believe supernatural things. You may very well be right. It is absolutely a possibility that we have one conscious lifetime. There are other "natural" (whatever that means) theories that could be true, however. We could delve into the philosophy of entropy, free will, the construct of time, multi-verses, etc, but ultimately it's a fruitless argument because science isn't to the point of tangible evidence.

My counterpoint to your argument of destroying the brain: what if we could reproduce the brain, atom by atom, and power it back up? Would your consciousness return or would a new one arise? Either way you answer brings up more questions.

Quote :

"To me, the hallucinatory effects of illicit substances PROVES how instrincally tied to your physical brain your consciousness is. Insert chemical, change consciousness."

I don't expect to be able to explain my experiences with psychedelics to anyone who hasn't taken them, and anyone else would tell you the same thing. I can only say that the manner in which it changes your thought structure and perception of time and space opens your mind to new possibilities of the structure of the universe and its inhabitants. I'm absolutely sure this sounds crazy.

In summation:

"My feeling is religious insofar as I am imbued with the consciousness of the insufficiency of the human mind to understand more deeply the harmony of the Universe which we try to formulate as "laws of nature" - Albert Einstein

[Edited on April 18, 2012 at 2:45 AM. Reason : .]

4/18/2012 2:20:40 AM

Quote :

"death freaks me out. i try not to think about it."

4/18/2012 4:28:19 AM

I'm around dying people pretty often in the hospital, and can't say it bugs me that much. Usually
the people I see dying have been slowly at it for awhile, and their families can't let them go (i.e. 85 year old
grandma has all kinds of tubes in addition to the usual post-op drains and IV fluids, and was barely stable enough to have undergone that operation to fix her broken hip,and her family still hasn't filled out the damn advance directive, and she's oriented maybe half the time, and in a lot of pain, and the staff knows she ain't gettin any better).

I'm getting an advance directive by the time I'm 45, for sure, to prevent the above scenario.

4/18/2012 5:45:32 AM

It amazes me that no matter how many times through the course of history the world and scientific community has been turned on it's head by a new discovery, man can still be so arrogant to think that we have it all figured out.

Science and human ingenuity has taught us many things, but in the end I have to believe the vast majority of theories we have are either partially wrong or complete horseshit. For everything we know on a subject, it's only a sliver of what there is to know. Hell, all of the scientific community could spend the next 1000 years studying our immune system alone and still fall hopelessly short of knowing everything there is to know about it.

This is why I find it hilarious when a person smugly says, "But look at the science!" Just because you've chosen to base the entirety of your opinion on the little crumbs of scientific fact and/or theory we have at the moment doesn't make you smart; it makes you a simple minded lemming.

4/18/2012 8:47:39 AM

Quote :

"I'm not latching onto anything. I don't hope for anything. You're putting words in my mouth by saying that I believe supernatural things. You may very well be right. It is absolutely a possibility that we have one conscious lifetime. There are other "natural" (whatever that means) theories that could be true, however. We could delve into the philosophy of entropy, free will, the construct of time, multi-verses, etc, but ultimately it's a fruitless argument because science isn't to the point of tangible evidence."

Natural means bound by the laws of nature as we understand them. Nothing about the philosophy of entropy, free will, the construct of time, multi-verses, etc. discount the fact that physical damage to your brain maps in a predictable way to damage to your consciousness. There very well could be infinite universes but the idea that our consciousness remains intact past the total damaging of our brain to travel to them defies reason.

Quote :

"psychedelics"

That's really a conversation stopper, isn't it? You're essentially arguing that psychedelics disprove naturalism. You can't demonstrate anything about the way it "changes your thought structure and perception of time and space". If you can, enjoy your Nobel Prize. Isn't it more likely that the rational explanation is true: that psychedelic drugs cause hallucinations like myriad other physical impacts on the brain?

At any rate you're welcome to believe whatever you wish. If you care at all about whether those beliefs are true, take a moment to evaluate the best method for determining whether they are and apply that method to your belief claims.

Quote :

"I'm around dying people pretty often in the hospital, and can't say it bugs me that much. Usually the people I see dying have been slowly at it for awhile, and their families can't let them go (i.e. 85 year old grandma has all kinds of tubes in addition to the usual post-op drains and IV fluids, and was barely stable enough to have undergone that operation to fix her broken hip,and her family still hasn't filled out the damn advance directive, and she's oriented maybe half the time, and in a lot of pain, and the staff knows she ain't gettin any better). I'm getting an advance directive by the time I'm 45, for sure, to prevent the above scenario."

Agreed. I'll be going to BJs for a helium-suicide-kit I mean party-balloon kit.

Quote :

"Science and human ingenuity has taught us many things, but in the end I have to believe the vast majority of theories we have are either partially wrong or complete horseshit. For everything we know on a subject, it's only a sliver of what there is to know. Hell, all of the scientific community could spend the next 1000 years studying our immune system alone and still fall hopelessly short of knowing everything there is to know about it."

Of course all scientific theories are partially wrong! That's part of science: constantly improving. Incorrect science is the doorstep to correct science. Everything every human "knows" is imcomplete or wrong to some degree. No one suggests that we will ever know everything about anything.

However, you're selling science and particularly medical science extremely short here. We know quite a lot about the immune system and we're continuing to learn and refine our knowledge regarding it. I don't know how you can look at how much science has accomplished and just disregard it.

Quote :

"This is why I find it hilarious when a person smugly says, "But look at the science!" Just because you've chosen to base the entirety of your opinion on the little crumbs of scientific fact and/or theory we have at the moment doesn't make you smart; it makes you a simple minded lemming."

Posted from the computer and Internet you just willed into existence, amirite?

It's not the facts of science the impress me; it's the method. What other method constantly checks its premises, disregards ones that are not consitent and comes up with better ones ad infinitum?

V, I think it's unreasonable to expect a thread about mortality not to include religion. I'd also like to point out that I merely stated my own opinion in a non-argumentative fashion. The mere sight of a rational opinion apparently is incensing.

[Edited on April 18, 2012 at 9:13 AM. Reason : .]

4/18/2012 8:53:02 AM

Wish you guys wouldn't turn this into a religion thread.

I don't really think about it that much. Can't say I'm afraid of it. I just hope it's not a long, drawn out, painful death. I would like to go quick. I could also care less about going early, but I would worry about how that would affect my loved ones...so I'd rather not for their sake.

I do think, in general, life is too short unless you're really really rich. The world is a big place and there are so many things to do and see. But in general, it takes too much time and money to see and do those thing (unless, of course, you're loaded)...especially if you really want to have the traditional family as well.

Oh well...

4/18/2012 9:03:25 AM

Quote :

"Wish you guys wouldn't turn this into a religion thread."

how the fuck would you expect people to NOT bring up their religion in this thread?

4/18/2012 11:50:34 AM

^ I get it...but it should be focused more on your living life, not your afterlife. Obviously your opinion on your living life will be affected by what you think happens afterwards, I would just rather it not take over 100% of the thread.

4/18/2012 11:53:35 AM

I found out yesterday a friend of mine committed suicide Sunday night, it's definitely given me something to think about along these lines. I'll be back in a week with more insight into this, I'm still in shock over the whole thing right now.

4/18/2012 4:06:52 PM

Memento mori, all.

4/18/2012 4:20:15 PM

There's a limited time to find happiness and to make a lasting difference.

Though there are a lot of ways to try to have an impact, it's part of what attracts me to the arena of legislation and elections, especially at the state and local level where you can make a difference in who is elected and what legislation or resolutions are passed. It's something that can make a positive difference in peoples lives now, and makes at least a few footnotes in history.

4/18/2012 6:35:06 PM

Only a politician would be vain enough to view politics as an easy path to immortality.

4/18/2012 7:27:58 PM

A friend of mine recently died unexpectedly. Most of the funeral wasn't at all what he would have wanted. This motivated me to plan my funeral, so that the people who really knew me wouldn't have to sit through stupid songs and threatening sermons.

Also, my own death doesn't scare me as much as my loved ones dying. I think that is mainly because no one needs me. The biggest inconvenience would be my place of employment having to hire someone new and my boyfriend having to find a new girlfriend. If I have kids, I think that would change.

4/18/2012 10:53:11 PM