FOR A MURDERER. WHAT. THE. FUCK.
http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/legislative/apnewsbreak-mass-judge-oks-sex-change-for-inmate/nR3D7/

9/4/2012 10:15:41 PM

Paging lewisje and other LGBT gurus. I can't imagine why this is medically necessary, but I'm ready to hear the arguments.

9/4/2012 10:39:41 PM

because "she's in so much anguish!" SHe has tried to cut herhis dick off several times and/or commit suicide. But, correct me if I'm wrong, having a penis is NOT a lethal condition. This is about as elective a surgery as it gets, and dude should have to pay for that shit on herhis own.

9/4/2012 10:41:58 PM

This is what Romney's america would be like

9/4/2012 10:55:04 PM

I'm pretty sure any man that has willingly tried to cut his own balls off twice qualifies as having a serious medical condition.

Furthermore, if you read the article linked the DOC medical staff themselves have even recommended the procedure, along with every medical expert the court's contacted. Until it becomes illegal for the DOC to consider the opinion of medical professionals, they are obligated to provide the care.

9/4/2012 11:22:59 PM

so, others are hurting themselves because they don't like being in prison. Guess we better free them, right? Look, if he were outside the walls of the prison, then it'd be an elective surgery. What in the fuck changed the moment he walked inside the prison to make it no longer elective? I guarantee you this person is NOT going to die on account of having a penis attached to his body. That is NOT life-threatening. If having a penis is life-threatening, then there are 150million people in this country with a grave medical condition! The state should NOT be paying for elective surgeries.

9/4/2012 11:28:42 PM

9/4/2012 11:36:53 PM

Because we live in a society that doesn't condone torture for prisoners and panel of medical experts, again including the DOC's own have ruled that this procedure is medically necessary. I'm sure you staunchly believe prisoners should only permitted the bare necessities of life in prison but that's now how the law or constitution, for that matter, are written.

So, in conclusion. Go get your medical degree and show scientifically why gender confusion is entirely voluntary.

9/4/2012 11:37:35 PM

9/5/2012 12:12:01 AM

burro pwnt; stay home

9/5/2012 12:13:00 AM

i'm all for convicted murderers to have decent conditions in prison, not be subject to cruel or unusual punishment, etc

but maybe i'd be more sympathetic to taxpayers paying for a sex change operation if the patient didnt murder someone

i know, i know, i'm just being a biased right leaning white heterosexual male, but still

9/5/2012 12:18:28 AM

^ the point is that this decision wasn't made singularly in a vacuum. It was made based on court cases and medical and case law precedents that built up on each other.

Of course the idea is somewhat distasteful, but to change it, you'd have to undo decades of law and legal precedent going all the way back to the constitution.

As we are a country run by the rule of law, there's only so far your outrage will take you in this case.

9/5/2012 12:23:12 AM

Quote :

"I'm pretty sure any man that has willingly tried to cut his own balls off twice qualifies as having a serious medical condition."

So put him in a psych ward with the rest of the people that try to hurt themselves. It would have been nice if the article had more about why this is medically necessary as opposed to just medically preferable.

9/5/2012 12:24:54 AM

Quote :

"So put him in a psych ward with the rest of the people that try to hurt themselves. It would have been nice if the article had more about why this is medically necessary as opposed to just medically preferable."

That's a fair criticism though I'm certain the DOC has protocol in place for people that actively try to hurt themselves. The panel's decision might well have been because of that protocol.

9/5/2012 12:28:57 AM

Here's an idea: just cut off his dick surgically and tell him to go fuck himself


(which ironically would now be a little more difficult to do)

9/5/2012 1:19:32 AM

^ wouldn't it be easier, actually, you know, with your dick not attached to you and in your hand to be used on your body as you wish...?

9/5/2012 2:54:51 AM

Quote :

" Of course the idea is somewhat distasteful, but to change it, you'd have to undo decades of law and legal precedent going all the way back to the constitution."

I'm fairly sure this would take nothing more than an act of the legislature to declare this procedure elective again.

That said, the guy had a penis for years before he landed in prison, wasn't an unmanageable problem back then.

9/5/2012 8:10:54 AM

Quote :

"Because we live in a society that doesn't condone torture for prisoners and panel of medical experts,"

And yet, there's millions of other people people in prison, doing just fine with a cock and balls. There's billions of people around the world, doing just fine with a cock and balls. The reason this guys feels "tortured" is because the state has indulged his fantasy for this long with other "therapies". I imagine it causes quite a fucked up situation when you have all these other trappings of femininity and then look down and see a cock and balls. Probably fucks with the mind pretty good, especially if you've got a lot of time on your hands, as people in prison tend to have. Put the guy in a psych ward, give him counseling, tell him he's gonna have to live with his cock and balls until he either gets the money himself or gets out of prison. BAM, problem solved, and the public doesn't then have to pay for what any reasonable person knows is an elective procedure. The state didn't give him a cock and balls to fuck with him, so it's NOT torture of any sort, especially when coupled with actual counseling services.

9/5/2012 11:28:23 AM

Oh sure.... now they use the constitution on stupid shit.

9/5/2012 12:13:32 PM

"they"

9/5/2012 12:14:33 PM

Quote :

"That said, the guy had a penis for years before he landed in prison, wasn't an unmanageable problem back then."

If I had to guess (and I do, since the reporting is useless) the argument is probably that the murder of his wife stemmed in part from the "mental anguish" his condition is causing him, and therefore, the relief of that condition is a necessary and vital part of his rehabilitation, much like we give schizophrenics medication to control their condition. That said, the obvious questions are: a) how did he manage to live so long without killing anyone before and b) why can't he live and cope (with or without helpful drugs and therapy) as most pre-ops who aren't fortunate enough to have committed murder and then convinced a judge to give them free surgery?

9/5/2012 1:14:24 PM

Shit, his punishment for murder shouldn't be prison time, it should be to stay a male for the rest of his life.

9/5/2012 1:16:31 PM

Quote :

"And yet, there's millions of other people people in prison, doing just fine with a cock and balls. There's billions of people around the world, doing just fine with a cock and balls. The reason this guys feels "tortured" is because the state has indulged his fantasy for this long with other "therapies". I imagine it causes quite a fucked up situation when you have all these other trappings of femininity and then look down and see a cock and balls. Probably fucks with the mind pretty good, especially if you've got a lot of time on your hands, as people in prison tend to have. Put the guy in a psych ward, give him counseling, tell him he's gonna have to live with his cock and balls until he either gets the money himself or gets out of prison. BAM, problem solved, and the public doesn't then have to pay for what any reasonable person knows is an elective procedure. The state didn't give him a cock and balls to fuck with him, so it's NOT torture of any sort, especially when coupled with actual counseling services."

Well not to keep harping on it but he has gotten counseling* and the counselors are the ones who have deemed this a serious medical condition. So clearly, the BAM problem solved aspect is a sex change.

*Per his numerous medical reviews.

9/6/2012 1:39:16 AM

^ I suspect everyone here accepts the diagnosis that removing his cawk would help his mental condition. The question is, what is the state required to do to help the mental condition of inmates? I'm pretty sure the mental situation of most people in prison would be dramatically helped by being released from prison, but you don't see us doing that.

By being prison we must be a degree of discomfort among the inmates. Being forced to live with the same reproductive organs you lived your entire pre-prison life with seems fine to me.

9/6/2012 1:47:29 AM

Yea, sure. However, another way to look at it is that the discomfort of having man-bits increased overtime leading to self castration attempts. Then it does become the state's problem. Personal agony is hard to quantify, but whatever panel of experts the state had ruled that the agony was high enough to warrant the change and court ruled on the matter.

9/6/2012 1:56:17 AM

Quote :

"The state should NOT be paying for elective surgeries."

.

Quote :

" I'm sure you staunchly believe prisoners should only permitted the bare necessities of life in prison"

well... yes? it is prison.

9/6/2012 7:11:37 AM

What about the state paying for Gastric Bypass surgery for prisoners?
What about the state paying for Lasik eye surgery for prisoners?

9/6/2012 7:16:22 AM

You're throwing out edge-cases that aren't related to what's being discussed. Look, I don't know why I keep having to repeat this over and over, but a panel of medical experts including those who work for the DOC ruled this as medically necessary.

Here:

Quote :

"Wolf noted that the Department of Correction's own medical experts testified that they believe surgery was the only adequate treatment for Kosilek."

Stop debating with me what you think is medically necessary or not. You don't have a medical degree and neither do I.

9/6/2012 11:49:13 AM

Quote :

"Shit, his punishment for murder shouldn't be prison time, it should be to stay a male for the rest of his life."

Please re-read the Eighth Amendment.

9/6/2012 12:36:01 PM

What about the state paying for breast implants for prisoners?
What about the state paying for nose jobs for prisoners?

I'm pretty sure there are people in this world in mental anguish over their noses.

9/6/2012 1:37:16 PM

i'm sure Massachusetts tax payers are paying for shit that's a lot stupider than this. this should be the least of anyone's worries.

9/6/2012 6:34:07 PM

Quote :

"You're throwing out edge-cases that aren't related to what's being discussed."

He's throwing out edge cases because THIS is a mother fucking edge case.

This isn't medically necessary. it's medically preferable. I guarantee you this man will continue to live with a cock and balls attached to his body. He's made it this long, it seems pretty obvious they aren't gonna kill him.

Quote :

"However, another way to look at it is that the discomfort of having man-bits increased overtime leading to self castration attempts."

At which point you give him fucking counseling to handle the discomfort of having man bits, and you DON'T INDULGE HIS FANTASIES ABOUT BEING A WOMAN. You treat him the same way you treat anyone else who tried to hurt themselves: strap strap him the fuck down and put him in a padded room if need be. Dude needs to accept that he is gonna have a cock and balls at least until he gets out of prison, not be given some fantasy to hope for of getting it removed in six months.

9/6/2012 9:51:48 PM

Lets consider a few more things:

1. Putting this woman in a mental facility also costs money; easily more than the surgery.

2. Life after gender reassignment surgery isn't exactly a sexy party. Chronic pain and loss of all sexual functioning is very common. Not everyone who gets this procedure is doing it for the amazing sex.

9/7/2012 12:29:42 AM

Quote :

"This isn't medically necessary. it's medically preferable. "

I'm going to repeat this five times because I don't think its getting through clearly through:

Quote :

"Wolf noted that the Department of Correction's own medical experts testified that they believe surgery was the only adequate treatment for Kosilek."

Quote :

"Wolf noted that the Department of Correction's own medical experts testified that they believe surgery was the only adequate treatment for Kosilek."

Quote :

"Wolf noted that the Department of Correction's own medical experts testified that they believe surgery was the only adequate treatment for Kosilek."

Quote :

"Wolf noted that the Department of Correction's own medical experts testified that they believe surgery was the only adequate treatment for Kosilek."

Quote :

"Wolf noted that the Department of Correction's own medical experts testified that they believe surgery was the only adequate treatment for Kosilek."

So, until you get a medical degree and convince other medical professionals to agree with you using SCIENCE, what you believe is totally irrelevant. Unicorns and popsicles. They literally hold as much medical weight as your opinion.

The only way this discussion will continue is if you argue, essentially, that the state should not listen to its own panel of medical experts when determining necessary care for prisoners but rather to the opinions of private citizens posting on niche college websites. Otherwise, case closed.

[Edited on September 7, 2012 at 12:37 AM. Reason : .]

9/7/2012 12:37:16 AM

^no he thinks the state should listen to GODJESUS

Quote :

"What about the state paying for breast implants for prisoners? What about the state paying for nose jobs for prisoners? I'm pretty sure there are people in this world in mental anguish over their noses."

The state probably would pay for reconstructive surgery of those types, but not cosmetic surgery.

In fact, GCS is akin to reconstructive surgery, as it attempts to construct, as closely as possible, an external genital system conforming to the brain's gender identity; now if neurological science could figure out how to change a person's gender identity (or sexual orientation lol), that may become the preferred treatment: http://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/zcx0d/judge_oks_gender_reassignment_surgery_for_inmate/

9/7/2012 1:11:18 AM

Quote :

"until you get a medical degree and convince other medical professionals to agree with you using SCIENCE"

Blind trust to a piece of paper. shame on you.

Doctors are never wrong

I highly doubt the surgery was the only adequate treatment. Most convenient to get him to shut up by giving him what he wants? Most Probably.

9/7/2012 1:22:49 AM