Honestly, it's hard to sympathize with them isn't it? They've been promised a 16% raise over the next 4 years in an economy with over 8% unemployment. Their biggest sticking point seems to be that they are subject to an evaluation system they don't like. Really? Is there an evaluation process that could result in a teacher being fired that they wouldn't object to? Health benefit complaints are laughable given how good they have it compared to an average private sector worker.

It's hard for me to see them getting much public support, but Chicago is still a pretty union friendly city so I guess we shall see.

Thoughts?

9/11/2012 9:43:02 AM

Typical, entitled government workers. Taxpayers are forced to pay their wages. Taxpayers are forced to send their children to the schools unless they can afford to make other arrangements; the vast majority of people cannot. The children get an abysmal education that is a true disgrace in this day and age. Teachers proceed to demand more money, more benefits, and more "job security", and stop working when they don't get what they want.

What else is there to say? Unions can be a great thing, but not when it's an enterprise that the government forces people to participate in. For children in Chicago, there's no outcome that can be seen as a "win" here.

9/11/2012 9:50:47 AM

Fire them. Let the good ones reapply if they wish.

I laugh bc the mayor would have been supporting them if he wasnt the mayor and now has to deal with this BS.

btw, I think your students' test scores should be one component of an evaluation, not the entire thing. To base pay soley on that is ridiculous. Too many other factors, imo

9/11/2012 9:51:47 AM

http://theotherclass.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/teachers-strike-in-chicago-is-this-an-effective-catalyst-for-change/

Quote :

"are you prepared for the accountability that comes with higher pay? It is really that last point that has me slightly annoyed. I agree that teachers should be paid more, especially when asked to do more work. I agree that our current system rarely gives teachers the materials and support they need to effectively do their job. But, I also believe that teachers need to be held to universal standards with constant evaluation on them, not the students."

This covers what I think as well. The greater accountability that comes with higher pay necessitates evaluation of the person's performance. Look anywhere else in the workforce and you'll find this. If you are promoted to a project manager, then you suddenly have metrics that will put your head on the chopping block if they're not good at the end of the quarter. This sort of statement (that higher pay requires more accountability and performance measurement) seems so in-your-face obvious that I find it amazing that we have to say it in the first place.

The problem with they way they're negotiating is that they lobby for higher pay and lower accountability at the same time. That just doesn't cut it. I'm not for basing teacher's jobs and pay on test scores, I concede that point. We've had a lot of bad performance metrics in the past. If I were negotiating with them, the first thing I would ask is "how should we evaluate teachers". Surely, no sane person would advocate no evaluation. Honestly, I don't know what the right method is. That's for the experts. There are people who study this, and I would look to them, as well as the teachers.

The final point: this strike is unfair to the unemployed and underpaid teachers out there. Unions (except for fully private unions) should be required to represent the unemployed colleges of their constituents as well. Otherwise they can't be said to have the populist mandate that they argue from.

9/11/2012 10:01:25 AM

There's no telling how long the Chicago Teachers Union strike — the first strike of its kind in the city in a quarter-century — will last, but, as this photo clearly shows, the protests have already taken a turn for the dirty.

"Civility has disappeared in Chicago Teachers Union protests," says Daniel Strauss, who snapped the pic. Truly.

Make fun of the mayor's mother, declare him worse than Hitler, plant evidence that he's having an extramarital affair. But calling him a Nickelback fan? Unacceptable.


http://gawker.com/5942212/chicagos-striking-teachers-take-protest-too-far

9/11/2012 11:20:21 AM

It seems Rahm Emanuel and I have something in common.

9/11/2012 11:41:40 AM

Not commenting on the points in the strike discussions, but there are some interesting national ramifications.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/09/10/why-the-chicago-teachers-strike-is-bad-news-for-president-obama/

Quote :

"For the first time in nearly three decades, Chicago public school teachers went on strike this morning. At first glance, you might be tempted to think that what happens in Chicago has little to no effect on the politics of Washington and the presidential race. But, you’d be wrong. There are several reasons to believe that what happens in Chicago could have a real — and negative — impact on President Obama and the broader race for the White House this fall. We list the three biggest reasons below. * It’s Chicago: Yes, we know that President Obama has no role — either way — in the strike. But, that the strike is happening in Chicago, the town where President Obama made his political name doesn’t help him. And that the current Chicago mayor, Rahm Emanuel, was Obama’s first presidential chief of staff isn’t much help either. Remember that Republicans are doing everything they can to link Obama to Chicago and Chicago-style politics — thinking that it will turn off independents in the middle of the country. That the teachers strike will be at (or close to) the top of every evening news show until it ends allows Republicans a daily news peg to remind people that Obama is from the Windy City. * Labor, distracted: Organized labor has experienced a series of major setbacks over the past few years — from losing a Democratic primary challenge to Sen. Blanche Lincoln (Ark.) in 2010 to coming up well short against Gov. Scott Walker in the 2012 recall race. Those losses make it very difficult for labor’s credibility to weather ANOTHER high profile defeat in Chicago. If labor loses this fight it may be a sort of death blow to its longstanding image as the big bully (in a good way) in politics. With stakes that high, the showdown in Chicago is going to be a top-of-the-mind issue for labor strategists and allies until it’s resolved. And that means that labor’s attention is divided, which isn’t a good thing for the Obama campaign who need unions’ full attention this fall. * Rahm, distracted: Less than a week ago, my colleague Peter Wallsten reported that Rahm was taking over the fundraising effort for Priorities USA Action, the leading Democratic super PAC that has struggled so far to come close to matching the financial might of its conservative rivals. While we know Rahm is a gifted multi-tasker, it’s hard to imagine that with the biggest — and most consequential – fight of his mayorship now joined that he is going to find much time to court the massive donors the party needs to write massive checks as soon as possible. If the strike gets itself resolved in short order, this likely won’t be a major issue but if it drags on, the political calendar starts to become Democrats’ enemy. In order to make a difference, you need the money in the bank sooner rather than later so it can be effectively spent. (UPDATE: Emanuel suspended his fundraising activities for the super PAC to concentrate on the strike today.)"

Not sure if the strike has become a big enough issue yet to gain play nationally, but the last two points are more interesting. This does put the President in an uncomfortable situation where two of his key allies are locked in a rather ugly and distracting battle. The labor movement is having to expend capital to fight this, and Rahm Emanuel is drawn away from supporting the President's re-election to work this issue out. The real problem for the White House will be when one of the two players publicly appeals for the President to take sides if this thing drags out.

9/11/2012 11:43:55 AM

16% is nothing if their base pay is only 30-40 something (i don't know what their base pay is). My rent just went up 20%, gas is up etc., 16% is not much at all.

But I do agree that it's hard to sympathize with them, based on the one article i've read. It seems like the city's requirements are very reasonable, i'm not sure what they intend to gain by striking. It almost seems like they were just itching for the attention or something.

9/11/2012 12:27:42 PM

Nickleback is just plain terrible.

9/11/2012 12:33:02 PM

Quote :

"d357r0y3r: The children get an abysmal education that is a true disgrace in this day and age."

Could you elaborate on this? How is it abysmal? What evidence is there that it's abysmal? And how are teachers causing it to be "abysmal"?

9/11/2012 12:53:44 PM

Quote :

"i'm not sure what they intend to gain by striking. It almost seems like they were just itching for the attention or something."

It's not what they intend to gain, it's what they have, which is leverage. This will hurt Obama, and they know that democrats have every incentive to give in to what almost equates to ransom demands. Depending on how this plays out, this could lead to more of this kind of behavior as the election draws closer.

9/11/2012 1:04:42 PM

^ Agreed... this is the best time to strike. Rahm Emanuel was supposed to begin supporting the White House's re-election bid through a pro-Obama super-pac. However, he's had to delay his activities to deal with the strike. Both he and the White House can't move against the unions aggressively because they're such an important group to Obama's reelection efforts; there is little stomach for a long, public fight. I imagine their hope is to squeeze more concessions out of Emanuel since he'll be under pressure to quickly end this.

Also should add that this may be one of the few opportunities teacher unions have to try and slow the trend toward increased "performance-based pay" and charter schools that people like Michelle Rhee have started, particularly since they're going up against a Democratic administration that would be more sympathetic to labor on this issue.

[Edited on September 11, 2012 at 1:24 PM. Reason : Added DC influence]

9/11/2012 1:22:11 PM

^,^^

Makes sense.

9/11/2012 1:48:30 PM

Quote :

"Could you elaborate on this? How is it abysmal? What evidence is there that it's abysmal? And how are teachers causing it to be "abysmal"?"

Information is censored.
History is being rewritten.
Teachers are dictated on what and how to teach.
National Standardize tests ensures that a diversity of knowledge around the nation is deterred and ensures all children learn the propaganda the government wants them to know.

9/11/2012 2:26:13 PM

Quote :

"Could you elaborate on this? How is it abysmal? What evidence is there that it's abysmal? And how are teachers causing it to be "abysmal"?"

There have been plenty of studies done to rank the quality of U.S. public education. Despite the amount of money poured into the system, public education doesn't look good compared to many other developed nations:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcrotty/2012/03/26/7-signs-that-americas-educational-decline-is-jeopardizing-its-national-security/

Quote :

"1) The United States invests more in K-12 public education than many other developed countries, yet U.S. students remain poorly prepared to compete with global peers. The CFR task force cites an international test frequently noted in previous Crotty columns, the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), which measures the performance of 15-year-olds in reading, mathematics, and science every three years. As discussed in a previous Crotty post, according to the 2009 PISA, U.S. students ranked fourteenth in reading, twenty-fifth in math, and seventeenth in science compared to students in other developed countries. 2) More than 25 percent of U.S. students fail to graduate high school in four years; for Hispanic and and African-American students, the number approaches 40 percent. 3) Only 25% of U.S. students are proficient or better in civics, as measured by the National Assessment of Educational Progress. 4) In a global economy, where foreign language competency is critical, eight in ten Americans only speak English (with no foreign language capability at all). Sadly, my second language of American, extolled in my bathroom-reading Bible, How To Talk American, is not yet recognized as a foreign language. In addition, an increasing number of schools are dropping their foreign language programs. Meanwhile, only 1.4% of American students study abroad, mostly in Europe. I stand guilty. For my junior year abroad from my undergraduate alma mater of Northwestern, I chose the University of Sussex in Falmer, England in part because of my weak foreign language skills (though the London new wave and post-punk scene was another un-mentioned draw). This lack of foreign language training (long an American Achilles heel frequently noted by my Swiss and French compadres) means the U.S. State Department is experiencing a lack of trained linguists in the mission critical languages of Korean, Russian, Chinese, Turk, and Dari. Yes, Dari (the most widely spoken language in Afghanistan). 5) According to a recent report by the not-for-profit testing organization, ACT, only 22 percent of U.S. high school students met “college ready” standards in all of their core subjects; these figures are even lower for Hispanic and African-American students. The College Board reported that even among the narrower cohort of college-bound seniors, only 43 percent met college-ready standards. This means that, upon graduating high school, more than 50% of college-bound students need to take remedial classes in one or more subjects, though a far lower percentage actually do. 6) Despite high U.S. unemployment, and far higher under-employment, major U.S. employers cannot find qualified American applicants to fill their job openings. For instance, 63% of aerospace and life science firms report shortages of “qualified workers.” While the collapse of the real estate market and the rise of dual-income families make it harder for normally mobile Americans to take job openings in high job growth states like North Dakota, South Dakota, Virginia and Kansas, a March 2012 McKinsey Global Institute Report, “Help Wanted: The Future of Work in Advanced Economies” lists skill mismatches and educationally unprepared applicants as chief reasons why millions of jobs go unfilled in America everyday."

This is supposedly the richest country in the world, so shouldn't the U.S. have a higher ranking?

There's also plenty of empirical evidence. Structural unemployment is a sign that public education isn't doing a good job. Government policy is partially to blame for failing schools, but how could the teachers not be part of the problem? They have these kids for 6 hours, 5 days a week. I'd expect some better results.

9/11/2012 2:30:14 PM

Quote :

"This is supposedly the richest country in the world, so shouldn't the U.S. have a higher ranking?"

Money does not equate to intelligence.

I don't magically get smarter as my bank account rises.

9/11/2012 3:11:12 PM

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/9/11/chris_hedges_dems_owe_chicago_public

9/11/2012 3:42:15 PM

^^^You're citing statistics that do not isolate schools from parents. There is nothing to indicate that schools are failing kids.

You put any one of America's primary schools in a developing nation like India, where corporal punishment is standard; where you're not cool if you don't have good grades; where the only two respected fields of secondary study are medicine and engineering. That school would be shitting Rhodes Scholars.

[Edited on September 11, 2012 at 3:57 PM. Reason : carrots]

9/11/2012 3:57:33 PM

If Reagan could shitcan all the air traffic controllers and start from scratch, then Chicago ought to be able to do the same with its teachers.

9/11/2012 5:27:02 PM

^I'm sure that would do wonders for student's education.

By the way, this isn't about teacher's salaries. Chicago public schools have a mountain of shortcomings, and most of the complaints are about class sizes and lack of access to resources for a successful learning environment.

This outward attack on unions started by ^reagan and the air traffic controls leaves a power void that gets instantly usurped by private and corporate interests.

For all their faults (and those faults DO exist), unions were one of the few roadblocks for power consolidation for the business and ruling elite.

This country needs to develop a populist backbone, but that won't happen until people with a four year degree from run-of-the-mill public universities start to realize that their safety nets are burning right underneath their feet.

9/11/2012 5:41:30 PM

I have to assume that the value added metrics being implemented in Chicago are just as flawed as those that have been implemented elsewhere. See NYC schools for a case study of how far these measure have to go before they should be tied to anything of consequence.

I have personal experience with value-added measures. The SAS Institute created the EVAAS system for NC to measure teachers' effectiveness, and while I was totally willing to give it a chance given SAS's reputation, I was very disappointed. Apparently I was a kick-ass teacher during my second year when compared to all other NC teachers (unlikely, to be honest), then I went to being a very average teacher my third year, then jumped up during my fourth year. I promise that my teaching abilities didn't wildly fluctuate. What did fluctuate was the SES of my students-- the very thing value-added measures are supposed to control for.

Think about it, CS majors-- would you be willing to stake your career on an algorithm designed to isolate teacher effectiveness from ALL other variables a student might bring into the classroom? The notion is the stuff of science fiction, yet at this very moment teachers are being hired and fired based on these metrics.

Admittedly, it's hard to sympathize with Chicago teachers, but they've picked the right fight.

[Edited on September 11, 2012 at 6:57 PM. Reason : ]

9/11/2012 6:56:02 PM

As a raging socialist loving liberal, even I think this is turrible

9/11/2012 7:22:17 PM

Quote :

"Both he and the White House can't move against the unions aggressively because they're such an important group to Obama's reelection efforts; there is little stomach for a long, public fight."

It's a liability for Obama either way. Urging the parties involved to quickly give in could give fodder for his opponent. But nothing yet says Obama is involved in the first place and he'd be better to keep it that way.

Both sides have this - the more extreme parts of their party gets aggressive and giving into them will hurt in general elections.

Quote :

"Structural unemployment is a sign that public education isn't doing a good job."

This is what business leaders always cite as the reason for our unemployment rates. The argument is that the recovery has been really bad on those with less education.



Plus, our prison population speaks strongly to their argument.

Quote :

"For all their faults (and those faults DO exist), unions were one of the few roadblocks for power consolidation for the business and ruling elite. This country needs to develop a populist backbone, but that won't happen until people with a four year degree from run-of-the-mill public universities start to realize that their safety nets are burning right underneath their feet."

hmm... surprisingly, I actually agree here.

People need organizations outside of the government itself where we collect and leverage our power. Any rational libertarian vision would encompass such organizations as a major component.

for example, "rights enforcement agencies"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTYkdEU_B4o

Honestly, the entire point of libertarianism is to get people in the mindset of fear so that they self-organize. At least in the cases of major threats which people always cite to argue "we can't get rid of government". Unions are a very imperfect micro-government. To say the least.

9/11/2012 7:25:56 PM

Quote :

"16% is nothing if their base pay is only 30-40 something (i don't know what their base pay is). My rent just went up 20%, gas is up etc., 16% is not much at all. "

They are the highest paid teachers in the entire country.

Their median pay is 75k, and that's before the 16% raise.

As typical you don't know shit because you don't read anything that doesn't agree with the worthless point you're trying to make.



I'm also disgusted it took this long for this topic to hit TSB... Over two days +

Much more important to debate Romney bumperstickers and Obama's teleprompter.



[Edited on September 11, 2012 at 8:16 PM. Reason : -]

9/11/2012 8:15:36 PM

no child left behind continues to be the one of the worst pieces of legislation bush passed

9/11/2012 8:52:41 PM

Quote :

"Their median pay is 75k, and that's before the 16% raise."

"The average teacher in CPS has 13.7 years of experience and is paid about $71,200, according to the Illinois State Board of Education."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-teacher-strike-expected-to-go-into-2nd-day-20120910,0,4057997.story


Chicago isn't a cheap city to live in, either. But damn these fat-cat teachers, and their demands that they have air conditioning in their classrooms and manageable class sizes. I bet they're living high on the hog, what with their 1998 4-door Saturn's and dental plans...

9/11/2012 9:04:50 PM

Oh look, how refreshing.

The old garbage men in NYC make $80k argument.

Original.

Just admit you don't know shit. It's simple.

9/11/2012 9:32:13 PM

The salary is fine, maybe you could argue a bit high to be honest given the results they've been producing.

However, considering chicago public school's awful, awful results compared to the rest of the state and the rest of the country they're going to have to do a hell of a lot to convince me that a pretty strict evaluation system isn't needed. I'm not saying that it should be based solely off of test scores, but you have to start somewhere.

9/11/2012 9:36:20 PM

The schools that get screwed are the rural and inner-city areas. If you can afford an expensive house your kid will be just fine.

9/11/2012 10:02:39 PM

Crime is way above the norm in Chicago. Is the Chicago PD to blame for this?

Of course not.

The same concept applies to teachers, as well.

9/11/2012 10:16:13 PM

I would say the police (at least management/administrators) would share a component of the blame for high crime.

Likewise, teachers should share some of the blame for the particularly bad performance of their students relative to other places.

$75k is what all teachers should be making, at least, after being on the job for 13 years. Of course the expectations should be high, but that's not off the wall.

9/11/2012 10:34:44 PM

^You win this thread.

Quote :

"I bet they're living high on the hog, what with their 1998 4-door Saturn's and dental plans..."

Damn skippy, I mean I don't even have a dental plan or a car; teachers should be like them enlightened Buddhist monks and take a vow of poverty if they really care so goddam much about knowledge!

(/sarcasm)

9/11/2012 10:36:00 PM

Quote :

"I would say the police (at least management/administrators) would share a component of the blame for high crime."

How big of a component?

If policing is to be measured by outcome, then should Chicago recruit the chief of Cary's police department? Cary has a much lower crime rate than Chicago-- thus the Cary PD are better than Chicago PD...?

[Edited on September 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM. Reason : ]

9/11/2012 11:18:21 PM

If you're performing well below comparable school districts or, to use the police department comparison, comparable cities then yes, things probably need to change.

9/11/2012 11:29:06 PM

What comparable school districts? I'd like to know for my own research.

9/12/2012 9:13:41 AM

Quote :

"Fire them. Let the good ones reapply if they wish."

9/12/2012 9:23:49 AM

NYC and LA for starters. Both those cities post higher graduation rates than Chicago. Chicago is about on par with Dallas despite the massively higher ESL population in Dallas.

Standardized testing scores rank Chicago below NY, Dallas, Boston, Houston, Atlanta, Miami-Dade, and the large city average in math and reading. In addition Chicago public schools score well below state and national averages across the board.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/districts/

It's a poorly run district with poor performance. Teacher's need to share some of the blame and accept that student performance will, and should be, what makes or breaks their evaluation.

9/12/2012 9:52:21 AM

I don't place too much stock in test scores, but I used your tool to look at average scale scores.

For 8th grade reading:
Chicago is "not significantly different" than Boston, New York City, Albuquerque, and Atlanta.
Chicago did better than Baltimore, Cleveland, Dallas, Detroit, DC, Fresno, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia.
Chicago did worse than Austin, Charlotte, Hillsborough Cty, Jefferson Cty, and Miami.

For 8th grade math:
Chicago is "not significantly different" than New York City and Miami.
Chicago did better than Baltimore, Atlanta, Cleveland, Detroit, DC, Fresno, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia.
Chicago did worse than Albuquerque, Austin, Boston, Charlotte, Dallas, Hillsborough Cty, Jefferson Cty, and San Diego.

For 8th grade writing:
Chicago is "not significantly different" than Atlanta, Austin, Boston, Houston, New York City, and San Diego.
Chicago did better than Cleveland and Los Angeles.
Chicago did worse than Charlotte.
Albuquerque, Baltimore, Dallas, Detroit, DC, Fresno, Hillsborough Cty, Jefferson Cty, Miami, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia did not have data available.

For 8th grade science:
Chicago is "not significantly different" than Cleveland, Fresno, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia.
Chicago did better than Baltimore and Detroit.
Chicago did worse than Atlanta, Austin, Boston, Charlotte, Houston, Jefferson Cty, Miami, New York City, and San Diego.
Albuquerque, Dallas, DC, and Hillsborough Cty did not have data available.


I think there are issues in education that need to be explored, but we can't do that honestly if people in the discussion are calling public education abysmal or acting like Chicago is soooo much worse than everywhere else when it's clearly not.

[Edited on September 12, 2012 at 11:38 AM. Reason : ]

9/12/2012 11:09:07 AM

So what does it take to make this much money as a public school teacher in NC?

9/12/2012 1:52:10 PM

You guys do realize that pay isn't the only factor in this strike right? Maybe the other reasons aren't getting much national attention. Here's a few others:

Quote :

"Why are the teachers striking? The Chicago Teachers Union is looking for a contract that includes the following (information courtesy of Gadlin): Pay Fairness: "CTU seeks a fairer distribution of pay [i.e. higher compensation for teachers] and to preserve the schedule for career advancement established 45 years ago in the Union's first labor contract."  Protection of Benefits: "Maintain our existing benefits and sick days without increasing the contribution rate [how much teachers have to pay out-of-pocket for health care]."  Fair Evaluation Procedure: "The Chicago Public Schools' proposed evaluation procedures could result in 6,000 teachers, or nearly a third of all CPS teachers, facing discharge within one or two years. It places too much emphasis on standardized test scores, which diminishes children’s education and punishes teachers unfairly." In other words, teacher performance will be judged by standardized test scores. Teacher Training: "Chicago Public Schools is imposing a new curriculum at all schools and a strict evaluation system. Teachers have asked for more training, but CPS proposes no increase, or in some cases decreased, teacher training." Timetable for air conditioning: "Teachers insist that Chicago Public Schools agree to a reasonable timetable to install air conditioning in student classrooms. In July and August, students sit in sweltering 98-degree heat." (In case you're wondering what students are doing in a classroom during the summer, Chicago has implemented some year-round public schools.)"

Oh, and they don't mention that the classes sizes in Chicago are ballooning with no effort to mitigate things other than handing the local education system over to some charter school companies (yay for the cheapest education possible!!!).

Also, starting this year the school year is being lengthened in Chicago without any attempt to compensate the teachers or fund the materials needed for the extra class time.

Although this really is something they should have expected when they elected an ass like Rahm to be mayor. He's never struck me as being one to sit down and negotiate in good faith.

9/12/2012 2:14:55 PM

Quote :

"their demands that they have air conditioning in their classrooms"

When money's tight you can't have it all. Please keep in mind this is Chicago where outside temperatures are fine for 90% of the school year. I didn't have AC in school growing up in NJ and people there seems to be doing alright.

After reading the above post, I have no problem conceding that year round schools (or classrooms) should have AC. That does not seem like an unreasonable demand.

[Edited on September 12, 2012 at 3:06 PM. Reason : k]

9/12/2012 3:05:08 PM

I didn't have AC in some classrooms in elementary school... in NC... deal with it.

9/12/2012 3:06:15 PM

fuck, WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL they wouldn't turn the heat on until the last couple of weeks of winter and would blast the AC through the first half of winter.

NO SYMPATHY

9/12/2012 3:07:46 PM

^^^^^In North Carolina, for certified teachers...

14 years experience + bachelor's degree = $39,650
14 years experience + bach + NBTPS = $43,840
14 years experience + master's degree = $43,620
14 years experience + master's + NBTPS = $48,850

35+ years experience + bachelor's degree = $53,180
35+ years experience + bach + NBTPS = $59,560
35+ years experience + master's degree = $58,500
35+ years experience + master's + NBTPS = $65,520

County supplements can raise these salaries by a couple hundred dollars more up to a several thousand dollars more a year—the supplement is a percentage of your state pay, and depending on the county, the percentage goes up with more experience. Some counties can't afford to offer a supplement at all. And some counties offer a supplement, but they can’t afford to actually provide it to teachers--LOL if it didn't actually run people out of the job.

http://www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/fbs/finance/salary/schedules/2012-13schedules.pdf
http://www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/fbs/finance/salary/supplements/2010-11supplements.pdf

^^^^Yeah. I think the other issues are way more important to teachers than pay. If it was just about a pay, they very clearly would not have gone on strike. They're not assholes, folks.

[Edited on September 12, 2012 at 3:08 PM. Reason : ]

9/12/2012 3:07:48 PM

heh, to be honest if I was a teacher in a classroom with no AC I would bring in 1-2 window units at my own cost if the school allowed it

Random question: If a teacher teaches during a traditional school year (summers off) then shouldn't their salary be divided by 0.75 to make it equivalent to year round salaries for people in other fields?

9/12/2012 3:12:32 PM

With such a saturated teaching market and so many looking for work, they shouldn't negotiate at all.

Fire them all and EASILY fill the spots with people MORE THAN HAPPY to work at the original contracts.

Fuck all this 16% raise nonsense.

At 75k a year you could cut the shit 16% with no AC etc (bullshit excuses) and still easily fill these positions.

Case closed.

I'm glad I'm not a public school teacher, not there or NC. Load of shit. I'd be embarrassed if these were my coworkers.

[Edited on September 12, 2012 at 3:31 PM. Reason : -]

9/12/2012 3:30:58 PM

^^?

Salaries were originally developed on the assumption that teachers would have several weeks off during the summer. So, no, they should not be divided by .75 (multiplied, to be correct). Why would you think that?

And a lot of school windows don't typically fit AC units, but teachers do bring in a bunch of fans. But jaZon is right about the AC/heat thing. It's annoying that all buildings are temperature controlled except for the ones we happen to cram a bunch of kids into, but the worst part is definitely when they run the heat on a hot day and AC on a cold one.

Typically, on an 80 degree day when the school is blasting heat, and kids are sitting there sweating like field workers, taking their ninth round of standardized tests for the year, tests that often don't line up with the standards or curriculum (what they've been learning in class)...that's when kids'll realize they've been right all along: school is stupid. And middle school is typically when kids will realize (out loud), "Oh, we go to a poor school." And teachers are like, "Uhhh, "

[Edited on September 12, 2012 at 3:57 PM. Reason : ]

9/12/2012 3:33:36 PM

Maybe I shouldn't even participate in education-based threads.

It sounds like you people work in the ghetto and/or 1930's.

Individual thermostats in classrooms at my school for the fucking win.

No, I'm not telling you vultures where I work.

9/12/2012 3:40:44 PM

Quote :

"When money's tight you can't have it all. Please keep in mind this is Chicago where outside temperatures are fine for 90% of the school year. I didn't have AC in school growing up in NJ and people there seems to be doing alright."

Bullshit. It gets almost as hot up here as in NC and it's sometimes even more humid. If you've been in a building here on a hot day with no AC then you'd know it's impossible to do more than get heat stroke, forget learning.

[Edited on September 12, 2012 at 3:48 PM. Reason : At least it does now, thank you climate change!]

9/12/2012 3:48:14 PM

^and not to mention that most of the buildings there are old, masonry buildings that do nothing but absorb heat and radiate it back into the building.

Summer's indoors in Chicago with no AC can be pretty insufferable. There were plenty days where I would just leave my apartment and go to starbucks to get work done just to avoid the heat.

9/12/2012 3:58:54 PM