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Cherokee
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Haha "sounds great" is fine. Now convince people. That's the hard part.

2/15/2018 2:56:50 PM

adultswim
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Not trying to beat a dead horse here, just thought this was interesting:

Syria civilian casualties in 2017: 10,507
Syrian population: 18,430,000
Rate: 57/10000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Death_tolls_by_time_periods

2015 highest homicide rates in US:
St. Louis: 59/10000
Baltimore: 55/10000
Detroit: 44/10000

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/national/the-cities-with-the-highest-murder-rates-in-the-us/collection_5a789407-4d43-5403-ad56-7c47880bda8e.html

I wonder how it would look if you compared the worst neighborhoods of Syria to the worst neighborhoods of the US? Christ.

2/15/2018 3:19:44 PM

Cherokee
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The context surrounding the deaths is what truly distinguishes the two. At least, from an analytical standpoint.

Also those rates are per 100,000, not 10,000. Slight typo in your post but matters from a math standpoint.

So, it's comparable from a "per 100,000" standpoint but it doesn't tell the same story. 188 people being murdered every year doesn't compare with 10,000 civilians being killed every year. Plus you're comparing an entire country with a city. Extrapolate out to the rate in the United States and compare that to Syria. Or conversely, pick a city in Syria and compare it with St. Louis.

And also, related to context - murder is intent. Civilian deaths in a combat zone are not intentional killings.

[Edited on February 15, 2018 at 4:31 PM. Reason : a]

2/15/2018 4:23:22 PM

adultswim
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Whoops yeah. Also if you consider gang violence, the rate should be a bit lower.

But no matter the context, it’s pretty wild.

Quote :
"And also, related to context - murder is intent. Civilian deaths in a combat zone are not intentional killings."


Well yeah but tell that to the dead guy

[Edited on February 15, 2018 at 4:34 PM. Reason : .]

2/15/2018 4:33:31 PM

Cherokee
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Haha, I know. I just mean that typically the point of debating things like this is to try and figure out a solution to a problem. So to come up with the best solution it's important to understand the context and specifically what is causing the problem.

2/15/2018 4:37:52 PM

tulsigabbard
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Theres a thin line between manslaughter and 2nd-degree murder. The idea that you can drop bombs on a populated area without the intent to kill civilians is a joke to me.

2/17/2018 12:25:09 PM

Cherokee
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Quote :
"The idea that you can drop bombs on a populated area without the intent to kill civilians is a joke to me."


The intent of dropping bombs on a any area, populated or otherwise, is to win a war, not to kill civilians.

2/17/2018 4:52:44 PM

tulsigabbard
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So killing civilians is not murder as long as your intent is the pursuit of a political goal. Got it.

2/17/2018 5:02:30 PM

Cherokee
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You're refusing to distinguish context and because of that it is entirely pointless to discuss this any further.

2/17/2018 5:06:56 PM

tulsigabbard
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Please tell me about the context because I think the context is as simple as a political goal YOU support vs a political goal you do not support. We are not even at war to begin with and are in Syria completely illegally.

2/17/2018 5:11:32 PM

0EPII1
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Fucking Assad, Putin, and Khameini have killed 500 civilians in a week, including a 100 children.

No country gives enough of a shit to do something about it.

2/25/2018 9:00:43 PM

Cherokee
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Because two of the three you listed possess nuclear weapons and the third you listed has already proven it will use chemical weapons.

This is literally one of the reasons we don't want other countries getting them. Because they do shit like this and prevent us from doing anything out of fear of sparking a nuclear war.

[Edited on February 25, 2018 at 9:30 PM. Reason : a]

2/25/2018 9:12:38 PM

tulsigabbard
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we created the situation by pushing weapons into syria. iraq and afghanistan had no nuclear weapons. i guess those civilian deaths didnt count.

2/25/2018 10:00:11 PM

Cherokee
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https://gizmodo.com/russian-state-tv-airs-video-game-clip-as-real-war-foota-1823322067

Lol

2/26/2018 9:43:10 PM

Cherokee
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https://www.afp.com/en/news/205/civilians-stay-put-despite-pause-syria-ghouta-bloodshed-doc-11h07e6

3/1/2018 8:56:10 AM

tulsigabbard
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Western media coverage makes it seem like the government is just attacking random citizens in Ghouta. Crazy how the coverage of Syrian/Russian collateral damage is such a stark contrast to coverage of American collateral damage.

You will rarely see a western media outlet even mention rebels in their Ghouta story and certainly won't see them talk about Jaysh al-Islam, the Saudi funded terrorist organization that is operating in the area.

The real difference is that Syria is doing it out of necessity for the survival of their country while americans have no business there and are bombing for political gain and profit.

3/6/2018 12:09:00 AM

NyM410
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No media coverage is not acting like that.

I just read BBC, AP and Reuters articles and they literally say “rebel held” Ghouta in the first line of each. They also directly quote Assad and a few other world leaders who obviously have differing views.

[Edited on March 6, 2018 at 12:17 PM. Reason : lol, Assad is basically Gandhi, am I right? Altruistic with no political/power motives]

3/6/2018 12:17:07 PM

adultswim
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There's no need to make excuses for Assad. He's garbage, like most world leaders.

But that doesn't mean our intentions are altruistic. We directly or indirectly support the majority of corrupt regimes across the world.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/42020-us-provides-military-assistance-to-73-percent-of-world-s-dictatorships

3/6/2018 12:40:02 PM

dtownral
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whatabouttheus

3/6/2018 12:43:08 PM

adultswim
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Whataboutism is a dumb word popularized by neocons to excuse US atrocities and stifle discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6VCzhWy-Kk

But you know damn well that's not what I was doing anyways. If the intent is altruistic, why are we propping up so many other murderous regimes?

3/6/2018 1:04:45 PM

Bullet
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Who said anything about altruism?

And guys, you're responding to a troll argument.

3/6/2018 1:09:41 PM

NyM410
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Whoa, I wasn’t implying anything about the US. Earl made it sound like the US having collateral damage was done out of powerlust while Assad is doing it out of love for country and people. Which is absurd... it’s all about maintaining power for Assad too.

3/6/2018 1:14:03 PM

adultswim
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I got you, I was just making a general statement.

3/6/2018 1:26:26 PM

tulsigabbard
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yeah assad is trying to maintain power in HIS country while the us is also trying to grab power in HIS country. the alternative to assad is isis or other militants. we have been over this already. how many iraqs and libyas do you need to see?

It would be the same if Assad was killing people in virginia to grab power and using nazis as an excuse. its far from being the same...

3/6/2018 3:37:37 PM

tulsigabbard
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yall really need to think critically about this. why would they do a chemical attack right after the us said it was leaving? anyone with half a brain would wait until after the us left to do this....unless they didn't want the us to leave....

4/8/2018 4:09:08 PM

tulsigabbard
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weapons experts and medics investigated the site today and found no trace of chemical or biological weapons use in the area.

western delegates left the room before the syrian speech to the un that went over the evidence. unbelievable and not being reported at all in MSM.

4/9/2018 11:18:52 PM

Dentaldamn
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Think CRITICALLY!!

4/9/2018 11:25:47 PM

tulsigabbard
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4/10/2018 4:47:39 AM

NyM410
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“The whole world”

4/10/2018 7:58:07 AM

Dentaldamn
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Glad whoever made that meme had all the info!

Thanks for the clarification.

4/10/2018 8:14:48 AM

Bullet
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4/10/2018 10:25:59 AM

d357r0y3r
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Yeah, really weird that Assad would gas his own people right after Trump said he wanted out of Syria and the war was basically won. Luckily, we know that there's no other country in the region that would benefit from continued U.S. meddling in Syria, so Assad must just be a lunatic. Case closed.

What's important is not understanding why Assad gas attacked his own people, it's accepting without question that he did.

[Edited on April 10, 2018 at 11:58 AM. Reason : ]

4/10/2018 11:57:29 AM

tulsigabbard
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accepting without question who committed an attack befpre any details of said attack have been confirmed.

saudi arabia and israel would both benefit from continued us presence to counter iran

4/10/2018 7:46:17 PM

TerdFerguson
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there are a lot of parties with questionable motivations in Syria, but it shouldn’t go unoticed that the only weapon inspectors that have been on the ground are Russians and their current narrative is they can’t locate any evidence or even any injuries or deaths.

Seems kinda at odds with the aftermath pictures.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43697084

[Edited on April 10, 2018 at 8:18 PM. Reason : Link]

4/10/2018 8:15:13 PM

0EPII1
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^ but russia wants others to come check:

Quote :
"MOSCOW: A senior Russian lawmaker says Moscow is willing to help arrange a visit this week for experts from the international chemical weapons watchdog to the site of a suspected poison gas attack in Syria.

Syrian opposition activists say 40 people died in Saturday night’s chemical attack in the town of Douma, the last remaining rebel bastion near Damascus. The opposition blamed President Bashar Assad’s forces for the attack, accusations the government strongly denies.

Yevgeny Serberennikov, from the defense committee at the Federation Council, told the RIA Novosti news agency on Tuesday that Russia is anxious for the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to “finally start carrying out the functions it was created for.”

Russia’s offer comes as President Donald Trump is threatening an imminent military strike against Syria."


of course, US won't give a shit and trump will do what he wills

what about the 30+ palestinians killed by snipers across the border from distances of 200+ feet in the last week, including people praying, and even journalists with media vests on? they posed no threat to israel, and were protesting ON THE BORDER, with NO WAY to cause any harm to israel.

oh yeah, the US blocked a UN investigation into that. the worst fucking hypocrites on the face of the earth

4/10/2018 9:17:30 PM

Cherokee
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Other nations benefit by keeping the United States bogged down here, particularly with an idiot like Trump running our country. That guy has absolutely no clue how to maneuver and doesn't want to listen to a single person around him.

Not sure why not a single person is speaking to this point on here. It's literally what we did to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.

Consequently, it's also what Russia is trying to do to us in Afghanistan.

Anyway some of you can go back to your "America is the worst" campaign now.

[Edited on April 10, 2018 at 9:20 PM. Reason : a]

4/10/2018 9:19:10 PM

TerdFerguson
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Quote :
"but russia wants others to come check:"


They’re just gonna claim the area isn’t safe enough for inspectors (potentially actually true). Inspectors will be able to verify the cause of death from autopsies, samples, and survivor symptoms, but blame, especially without near immediate access to the site, will always be difficult. This is exactly what they did in the previous attack last year and both those Syrian chemical attacks in 2013.

My mind remains open, But fool me once, shame on you blah blah blah

4/10/2018 9:39:51 PM

tulsigabbard
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https://uk.news.yahoo.com/mit-expert-claims-latest-chemical-100819428.html

ok is this non-russian enough for you sheople?

4/11/2018 1:44:14 AM

NyM410
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Welp, looks like John Bolton has the president’s ear. Here we go...

^ lol, you’re posting Assad memes and calling others sheople. Touché.

[Edited on April 11, 2018 at 7:31 AM. Reason : X]

4/11/2018 7:30:24 AM

TerdFerguson
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^^yea Postol has been repeatedly discredited. The guy clearly has ulterior motives IMO. Its a long list why he's wrong on this, I recommend you start by reading the OPCW report:

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/Fact_Finding_Mission/s-1510-2017_e_.pdf

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2017/07/28/khan-sheikhoun-seymour-hersh-learned-just-write-know-move/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/15/lesson-from-syria-chemical-weapons-conspiracy-theories-alt-right

4/11/2018 7:42:02 AM

Cherokee
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reminds me of the "engineering experts" interviewed for Loose Change that said the Trade Center was demo'd down.

you can find anyone to say anything you want. consensus is what matters.

4/11/2018 7:48:43 AM

mkcarter
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it's earl guys

4/11/2018 8:19:49 AM

tulsigabbard
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mattis admitted they had no evidence
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-has-no-evidence-of-syrian-use-of-sarin-gas-mattis-says

youre not sheople but im earl just because nym says im earl and assad did it just because msm said assad did it. ok

[Edited on April 11, 2018 at 12:00 PM. Reason : have you ever questioned anything saod by msm or authority?]

4/11/2018 11:56:51 AM

Bullet
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earl arguing with a strawman

4/11/2018 12:00:42 PM

Cherokee
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lol he apparently didn't read the article either because that headline is not at all what the actual content says

4/11/2018 12:08:13 PM

tulsigabbard
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Quote :
"“We have other reports from the battlefield from people who claim it’s been used,” Mattis told reporters at the Pentagon. “We do not have evidence of it.”"



also this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j_Z1f84Ps8

[Edited on April 11, 2018 at 12:35 PM. Reason : BBC accidentally let Peter Ford go on and question the whole thing. ]

4/11/2018 12:11:04 PM

Cherokee
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good job cherry picking a quote out of context from an article on February 8

https://www.opcw.org/special-sections/syria/the-fact-finding-mission/

[Edited on April 11, 2018 at 12:47 PM. Reason : a]

4/11/2018 12:37:13 PM

adultswim
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The fact is we don't have clear evidence yet Assad was behind this attack. Even still, Trump and his associates are using it to push for all out war in Syria. And this is right after John Bolton takes office. Keep that in mind.

It could have been Assad, or it could have been a number of other actors. Either way, escalation is not the way forward.

4/11/2018 12:51:49 PM

NyM410
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Yeah but that YouTube clip was dropping motherfucking truth bombs.

4/11/2018 12:52:13 PM

tulsigabbard
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The February quote is important because it reveals that the April 2017 strike occured without any evidence and now the entire process is being repeated. How is it cherry picking if they never had evidence? This isn't the right context for that phrase because there just aren't any cherries on the trees.

How is the quote out of context? They operated off of heresay and there was never evidence. That was the whole reason Tulsi went down there in the first place. Try to keep up.

The OPCW report declared chemical weapons had been used, not who used them. The same OPCW also took Assad's chemical weapons stockpile and declared the mission complete in 2014.

4/11/2018 12:55:34 PM

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