I mean, is this even a question? How do people not like Sherlock?

[Edited on February 16, 2013 at 11:10 PM. Reason : a]

2/16/2013 11:09:34 PM

[Edited on February 16, 2013 at 11:15 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2013 11:13:24 PM

ITT: bbehe tries to be a thing

2/16/2013 11:14:44 PM

Sherlock >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Elementary

seriously

2/16/2013 11:43:52 PM

I'm pretty sure it isn't a discussion.

Everyone who has seen both knows Sherlock is better, so the incredulous tone of the thread is not warranted.

2/17/2013 1:23:28 AM

ridiculous thread. I haven't even bothered with elementary (no matter how many good reviews it may get) for the sole purpose that it has ruined the character of Watson. Its the principle. Stop ripping off brilliant BBC Shows American network TV.

2/17/2013 3:03:30 AM

How do you know it's ruined the character when you've never seen it?

ibtsexism/racism

2/17/2013 5:04:35 AM

Neither of them hold a candle to the Jeremy Brett series.

2/17/2013 8:34:51 AM

Quote :

"Neither of them hold a candle to the Jeremy Brett series."

Without a doubt.

2/17/2013 8:37:14 AM

vinylbandit this is hardly sexism. Watson is a male, should always be portrayed by a male. That is how the book went. Why not go ahead and change Sherlock to a woman as well if you are willing to go that far? They did it for ratings and they got them. Oh look a hot woman. Great! Lets watch it! Also I have a bigger problem with it then just ruining Watson, its a blatant freaking rip off.

2/17/2013 9:39:15 AM

Quote :

"Watson is a male, should always be portrayed by a male. That is how the book went."

What is the point of adapting something if you aren't going to change anything? You should be equally pissed off that Sherlock is set in modern times if your standard is that they shouldn't have changed anything from the books.

Quote :

"Also I have a bigger problem with it then just ruining Watson, its a blatant freaking rip off."

Calling it a ripoff is fucking stupid, the Sherlock Holmes stories have been adapted for film and television a ton of times...they're all derivative when you get down to it.

2/17/2013 11:36:12 AM

You answered your own question when it comes to the ripoff. Whose idea was it to take Sherlock and put him into a modern setting, in the context of today? Steven Moffat and the BBC. Whose idea was it to take the genius of Steven Moffat and water it down for American audiences? CBS. Changing a setting is hardly the same thing as changing the sex of a character. Commercialism by corporate television networks at its finest.

Yes I realize that Sherlock has been put in a contemporary setting before and BBC weren't the first ones to do it but its far too much of a coincidence that CBS thought of this on their own.

And not to mention the pure fact that BBC's Sherlock is and will always be better than elementary. I don't need CBS trying oh so desperately to be as quirky or witty as Steven Moffat. Its just impossible really. I really wish BBC's model was followed by everyone. You make a show with integrity and originality and it will flourish. American network TV is only interested in making the next quick buck.

[Edited on February 17, 2013 at 1:15 PM. Reason : .]

2/17/2013 1:11:49 PM

House >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sherlock and Elementary

2/17/2013 1:16:36 PM

Quote :

"Whose idea was it to take Sherlock and put him into a modern setting, in the context of today?"

Quote :

"Yes I realize that Sherlock has been put in a contemporary setting before and BBC weren't the first ones to do it"

You just defeated your own argument.

Quote :

"Changing a setting is hardly the same thing as changing the sex of a character. "

It's EXACTLY the same thing.

Quote :

"I don't need CBS trying oh so desperately to be as quirky or witty as Steven Moffat."

I don't think that's what CBS is trying to do at all, and you would know that if you actually bothered to watch an episode of Elementary.

Quote :

"I really wish BBC's model was followed by everyone. You make a show with integrity and originality and it will flourish. American network TV is only interested in making the next quick buck. "

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about how the BBC works. They cancel shows because of bad ratings just like everybody else, they just cancelled The Hour despite heaps of critical praise because of sagging ratings.

2/17/2013 1:49:47 PM

I love Doctor Who, and I've been told I'll enjoy Sherlock (both have fervent fandoms), but I haven't gotten around to watch it yet. FWIW, I really love Elementary.

2/17/2013 2:09:49 PM

Quote :

"its far too much of a coincidence that CBS thought of this on their own."

the costs of a period show > contemporary show.


and lets not pretend that Sherlock is a perfect show, it definitely has its faults. Moriarty was a fucking clown on Sherlock.

2/17/2013 3:15:44 PM

^If you love Dr. Who and Elementary you will absolutely love Sherlock.

^^ Of course the BBC is going to cancel shows that have terrible ratings but more often than not their shows are extremely good and will get the ratings. The production and acting quality alone separates BBC from everyone else. Also I did not defeat my own argument. BBC were the first ones to put Sherlock in our time period since the series hasn't been rebooted for a while before Steven Moffat came around. I don't care what Elementary tries to do, the fact is it has taken an original idea from the BBC and ruined it really. I get it you enjoy it but to say it is an original work is incredulous. It won't last for long, you can bank on it. There is a reason why some of the best dramas to come out of America are on channels like HBO/Showcase/and AMC (recently). The big 3 networks have some great dramas but none compare to the quality of the BBC and the aforementioned networks. I am holding out hope that Netflix keeps putting out quality like House of Cards.

2/17/2013 3:21:47 PM

GOD DAMMIT, THE HOUR WAS CANCELLED?

2/17/2013 3:23:30 PM

Quote :

"Of course the BBC is going to cancel shows that have terrible ratings but more often than not their shows are extremely good and will get the ratings."

They have plenty of terrible shows (Outcats, I Believe in UFOs, Two Pings of Lager and a Packet of Crisps, Episodes, etc), it's just that nobody is singing the praises of the terrible BBC shows so you don't ever hear about them. Also ratings have jack-shit to do with how good a show is.

Quote :

"BBC were the first ones to put Sherlock in our time period since the series hasn't been rebooted for a while before Steven Moffat came around. I don't care what Elementary tries to do, the fact is it has taken an original idea from the BBC and ruined it really. I get it you enjoy it but to say it is an original work is incredulous."

First off it's not an even remotely original idea, setting classic literature in the modern world is about as common as it gets. Secondly I don't like Elementary and never said it was original. Thirdly it's ridiculous to claim that CBS ruined it if you haven't even watched an episode.

2/17/2013 3:45:50 PM

You act like I don't realize ratings don't affect how good a show is. Of course the BBC has bad shows, jesus. However, they also have some of the best shows. Sherlock, Top Gear, and Dr. Who just to name a few. BBC's idea is absolutely original. They have taken a character that resonates with different generations, made it darker, a lot more humorous, and Cumberbatch plays the character brilliantly. It has stayed true to the character of Holmes and more or less to the books, while also placing it in a different time frame. I don't understand what part of my opinion you don't understand. I don't care what elementary does, its my opinion that it is a show that has been influenced by what the BBC did and they have ruined an important character. For that reason alone I won't give it a chance and a lot of Steven Moffat fans will agree as well.

[Edited on February 17, 2013 at 3:54 PM. Reason : .]

2/17/2013 3:51:17 PM

^If you understand that ratings don't have anything to do with quality then don't post shit like this: "more often than not their shows are extremely good and will get the ratings."

Quote :

"Of course the BBC has bad shows, jesus. However, they also have some of the best shows. Sherlock, Top Gear, and Dr. Who just to name a few."

The problem is you continue to act like the BBC is some model of how a TV network should be run, when in reality they pump out a ton of awful shit along with a handful of good shows. And none of the shows you mentioned would even crack the top 20 for me.

Quote :

"They have taken a character that resonates with different generations, made it darker, a lot more humorous, and Cumberbatch plays the character brilliantly. "

All of this could be said about House, and that premiered in 2004.

Quote :

"I don't care what elementary does, its my opinion that it is a show that has been influenced by what the BBC did and they have ruined an important character."

Here's the part where your utter ignorance about Elementary makes it clear your opinion is worthless, you're spending all this time railing against something you haven't even watched. I don't give a shit what kind of rationalizations you have for not wanting to watch it, it still makes you ignorant.

[Edited on February 17, 2013 at 4:19 PM. Reason : .]

2/17/2013 4:18:32 PM

what's happen in here? Sherlock Holmes purist are unleashing Sherlock Holmes wrath? unreal.

2/17/2013 4:27:26 PM

Quote :

"I don't care what elementary does, its my opinion that it is a show that has been influenced by what the BBC did and they have ruined an important character."

You haven't seen the show, so the only thing you know about the character change is that Watson is a woman.

The character could be exactly the same, but since it's a woman, it's ruined.

Nope, not sexist at all, especially considering that the defining characteristics of Watson are being a former doctor and being Holmes' less analytical sounding board. Those characteristics are extraordinarily male.

2/17/2013 6:30:21 PM

^I like how you call me sexist and then assign Watson's qualities to a gender role. Watson being a woman is my one gripe, the show being influenced by a clearly better version of the BBC is the thing that does it for me.

^^^ You clearly haven't watched enough BBC shows to say ignorant shit like they pump out A LOT of awful shows. If you don't think the BBC model is something for BS network TV stations to aspire to you are the one that is being ignorant. I don't care if those shows don't crack your top 20, just like I don't care what elementary does because it just simply won't live up to Steven Moffat's Sherlock. I wouldn't call that being ignorant, its a matter of choice. If you don't like it how about you stop arguing about it like an imbecile?

2/17/2013 7:24:47 PM

wazza has done a fine job of quickly turning from a lurker to one of the douchiest posters on the board

2/17/2013 7:37:36 PM

why did I add this thread to my topics? I'm indifferent to its content and I didn't post in it. Hmm.

2/17/2013 7:51:34 PM

^^ You get that off two posts? I am very opinionated, if you call that being a douche then so be it. Its part of my "philosophy," if you didn't know that rwoody then get out of here!

2/17/2013 8:06:27 PM

wazza, would you have watched an episode of Elementary if Watson was a male?

2/17/2013 8:12:33 PM

Also, I may be new here (been lurking for a bit) but doesn't it seem rather douchey to tell a guy with 21 THOUSAND posts here to "get out of here" when you've posted only 66 times?

[Edited on February 17, 2013 at 8:15 PM. Reason : .]

2/17/2013 8:14:59 PM

^ Its a joke from the EPL Premier League Football thread. Something I posted, which I will admit was douchy. Also no I wouldn't watch elementary even if Watson was a male. Just don't like the fact that it came out a year or two after Sherlock and uses the same premise. The fact that Watson isn't a male just adds to my list of reasons to not watch that show.

[Edited on February 17, 2013 at 8:18 PM. Reason : .]

2/17/2013 8:17:45 PM

Why are you pretending that the Sherlock on BBC is the original? If Elementary is an adaptation of an adaptation, how does that ruin anything?

2/17/2013 8:24:54 PM

Because the BBC adaptation is the first reboot after forever. BBC brought it into modern day context and were the first to appeal to the audience. CBS saw this and even approached BBC to try to make a remake. CBS is only trying to cash in on the popularity they saw with Sherlock and have even included a beautiful female supporting character to appeal to the audience. Also the fact that I don't have to watch it to know it will not meet the quality of the BBC Sherlock, or even come close to it.

2/17/2013 8:32:19 PM

"I don't have to watch it to know it will not meet the quality of the BBC Sherlock, or even come close to it."

So you're a psychic?

2/17/2013 8:36:34 PM

Quote :

"Because the BBC adaptation is the first reboot after forever."

Right, because there wasn't a Robert Downey Jr. movie version that came out 6 months before Sherlock. Stop being a giant fucking moron.

2/17/2013 9:13:55 PM

^Exactly my thoughts.

2/17/2013 9:16:16 PM

I'm not sure if failing to understand sarcasm is part of the trolling or not.

2/17/2013 9:22:26 PM

2/17/2013 9:30:13 PM

The Robert Downey Movie obviously doesn't count you bumbling idiot. Sherlock is a modern day reboot, unlike Robert Downey Juniors movie. Those two have nothing similar to each other. Sherlock and Elementary however have the same premise. Ignorance is bliss.

DasAStack I don't know if you have watched both but you don't have to be a psychic to realize that Sherlock is miles ahead of Elementary when it comes to acting and story arc. That is also my opinion, one shared by many others, so don't try to argue that point.

Anyway I am done with this stupidity. Clearly we aren't going to agree.

[Edited on February 17, 2013 at 10:25 PM. Reason : .]

2/17/2013 10:22:20 PM

The real problem is that Sherlock stole the premise of Monk.

2/17/2013 10:24:19 PM

Poison in the very air we breathe!

2/17/2013 10:45:57 PM

Quote :

"Sherlock is a modern day reboot, unlike Robert Downey Juniors movie."

No shit, retard. You understand that setting isn't the only thing that differentiates media right? I feel like I'm arguing with a particularly dull child.

2/17/2013 10:54:45 PM

^ *no shit Sherlock


Ohhhh the irony... Lol ill see myself out

2/17/2013 11:15:23 PM

rdj's Sherlock owns
Sherlock's Sherlock owns
elemetary's Sherlock is dumb as a brick and not even Sherlock at all. its a procedural disguised as something else and its Watson is a weak character. it has nothing to do with sexism it has to do with awful writing for wider appeal.

the cases are too easy and Sherlock is too human which guts Watson because he/she is supposed to be sherlocks conscience and anchor to reality. a female Watson would work fine if these characters were actually Sherlock and Watson, but they are not.

[Edited on February 18, 2013 at 12:44 AM. Reason : q]

2/18/2013 12:43:19 AM

Quote :

"its Watson is a weak character. it has nothing to do with sexism it has to do with awful writing for wider appeal."

That negative opinion has nothing to do with sexism.

The negative opinion of someone who hasn't watched Elementary certainly does.

2/18/2013 1:36:39 AM

^^ Thank you. I didn't have to watch it to realize that, I had a hunch and from what I have read its been true, hardly surprising.

armorfrsleep I have tried really hard to not insult your stupidity but its about time I did. First off, fuck you. You clearly don't understand the whole fucking point of this argument is that Elementary uses the same premise as Sherlock and isn't a better series for a number of reasons (the latter is my opinion). Did you miss when I said elementary even approached Sherlock to do an American remake? Or are you just going to ignore it because it suits your idiocy? Probably the latter. The movie has nothing in common with the BBC Sherlock. Elementary certainly has a lot more similarities than Sherlock does with the movie. So your whole fucking point is moot because the movie is irrelevant. i realize it was a reboot but hardly at the same level as Sherlock. Anyway now I am truly done addressing your daftness. Carry on being a petulant fucking fool.

[Edited on February 18, 2013 at 2:50 AM. Reason : .]

2/18/2013 2:48:58 AM

gazza

wazza

meh

2/18/2013 3:44:53 AM

Quote :

"You clearly don't understand the whole fucking point of this argument is that Elementary uses the same premise as Sherlock and isn't a better series for a number of reasons (the latter is my opinion). Did you miss when I said elementary even approached Sherlock to do an American remake? "

And BBC would have sued CBS if they had just copied Sherlock, but they made their own show which shares the same temporal setting not a whole lot else. I'm sorry you're continually too much of an imbecile to figure that out.

Quote :

"The movie has nothing in common with the BBC Sherlock. Elementary certainly has a lot more similarities than Sherlock does with the movie."

How the fuck would you know if you haven't even watched it? This whole thread is you making moronic assumptions about something you've admitted you are ignorant about.

2/18/2013 7:40:30 AM

Quote :

"The negative opinion of someone who hasn't watched Elementary certainly does."

nah I've watched it, its shit

2/18/2013 10:25:44 AM

haha great thread bbehe

2/18/2013 10:37:38 AM

holy hell this thread is entertaining. I won't even interject due to my ignorance with regards to Elementary. but it seems as if vinylbandit and armorfrsleep have this under control.

2/18/2013 10:52:00 AM