Quote :

"Electric/hybrid car fees Under the Senate plan, owners of electric and hybrid vehicles would be assessed an additional $100 yearly license fee. "

http://www.wral.com/senate-leaders-explain-budget-plan-/12464919/

About dang time. Wish theyd do it based on mileage still though which would probably be even higher.

5/20/2013 3:06:20 PM

oh, good...hopefully that will give us enough money to get rid of that ridiculous toll road

[Edited on May 20, 2013 at 3:27 PM. Reason : .]

5/20/2013 3:09:55 PM

need to nail the damn bicyclists too

and put license plates on liquorcycles

5/20/2013 3:30:21 PM

^^ In RTP probably not.

I95, its coming. Get over it. The locals need to as well. They announced today it will probably be tiered pricing with reduced rates for NC residents, which is what is needed.

^Being a bicyclist Id probably be happy to pay a small fee for it. I highly wish they would regulate the damn mopeds. Those people do not know anything on road rules at all.

[Edited on May 20, 2013 at 3:31 PM. Reason : .]

5/20/2013 3:30:21 PM

i'm all about making the people who actually use something pay for it

5/20/2013 3:32:29 PM

I love toll roads, what's the problem?

5/20/2013 3:47:49 PM

^ nothing...as long as you're not paying double via tolls AND high taxes

given how high our taxes are, i don't think toll roads are "fair", but whatever

5/20/2013 3:56:36 PM

we need fewer of these hippy mobiles slowing down traffic on our roads.

5/20/2013 5:26:22 PM

Quote :

"and put license plates on liquorcycles"

bygoddamn that would be a fine idea

5/20/2013 5:32:34 PM

Quote :

"given how high our taxes are"

Compared with most of the south, yes....compared to other normal states, no fuckin' way

Quote :

"i'm all about making the people who actually use something pay for it"

I generally agree, but roads are different and you really lose the economy of scale going to a use-based tax scheme. BUT, it's political suicide generally to suggest raising income tax rates or other general taxes to pay for roads, especially with the current NCGA nonsense...



[Edited on May 20, 2013 at 6:02 PM. Reason : ]

5/20/2013 5:57:30 PM

Quote :

"^ nothing...as long as you're not paying double via tolls AND high taxes given how high our taxes are, i don't think toll roads are "fair", but whatever "

Agreed. Gas was $.20-$.24 cheaper in TN last week when I was there. It's normally ~$.20 cheaper when I drive into VA as well. We already pay a toll every time we fill up in NC.

5/20/2013 6:03:09 PM

don't know about TN, but in VA, the state maintained roads are shit compared with NC.

i'd rather pay a few more cents per gallon and have decently maintained roads.

that's not to say NC's high taxes are appropriate, but that i'd be ok with a slight gas tax increase in VA if they'd do a better job maintaining the roads (VA hasn't changed gas tax since the 80s)

[Edited on May 20, 2013 at 6:11 PM. Reason : .]

5/20/2013 6:10:01 PM

^ Exactly. SC is the same way. You can actually feel the state line when you go from NC state roads to SC state roads. Not to mention that their road infrastructure that I've been in around Greenville, SC is complete shit.

5/20/2013 6:38:45 PM

^^Dude I totally agree...people bitch about the gas tax in NC until they move away.

5/20/2013 6:44:26 PM

I'm not bitching about the gas tax; I enjoy our nice roads.
I'm just saying they should find the money to resurface I-95 from that gas tax rather than putting up tolls.

This isn't a new highway that wouldn't be open until 2025 without tolls. This is an existing highway that's been there for 40+ years. This isn't the first time it has needed resurfacing.

[Edited on May 21, 2013 at 9:46 AM. Reason : l]

5/21/2013 9:42:24 AM

This a really dumb idea.

Also gas is very cheap on the jersey turnpike bc you have to pay to drive on it.

5/21/2013 10:00:42 AM

That said, you should all stop driving because it emits a greenhouse gas.

5/21/2013 10:04:22 AM

^ at the comment below your image.

Kill all the cows too dammit!

5/21/2013 10:07:24 AM

^ there would be a much larger impact if we got rid of wetlands and exterminated all the termites

in other (yet unsurprising) news, the republican NC government is made up of a bunch of dickbags whose only goal is to fellate their conservative support base using loud, empty, and ultimately useless policy changes

5/21/2013 10:25:57 AM

^^Factory farming involving cows is an issue as well

5/21/2013 11:29:45 AM

Control spending... look for more revenue
Control spending... look for more revenue
Control spending... look for more revenue
Control spending... look for more revenue

Let's look for more revenue.

5/21/2013 11:54:14 AM

http://www.nccivitas.org/2012/budgetreform/

5/21/2013 12:02:47 PM

As the owner of a Chevy Volt, I don't mind being taxed for my use of the road. However, the Volt is difficult, because depending on how you drive it, you can burn either gas or use electricity. I wonder if they are smart enough to classify it as a hybrid.

Won't make much difference. In gas and electricity, I have only spent about $590 to drive 28,000 miles, and adding either $50 or $100 makes little to no difference.

[Edited on May 21, 2013 at 12:30 PM. Reason : .]

5/21/2013 12:29:56 PM

I am frankly surprised there isn't much outrage over this.

5/21/2013 1:32:10 PM

i assume that as a part of this proposal, they're doing the fair thing and reducing the taxes/fees on hummer and dually owners, since they're paying more than those of us with cars that get good gas mileage?

i mean, i wouldn't want those poor folks paying more for having vehicles with shitty mileage while i'm just screwing over the economy with my 35+ mpg

5/21/2013 1:32:43 PM

Quote :

"I am frankly surprised there isn't much outrage over this."

I would suspect the people that can afford to buy electric cars aren't super concerned about $100 more a year, we all knew this was coming, and most think it is appropriate at deflecting some of the anger over electric car incentives.

Now, the Prius owners, when they find out, will likely be pissed.

Its a dicey subject.

5/21/2013 2:29:07 PM

I always thought the gas tax was fine... It's a use tax with an incentive to use smaller, more efficient cars that cause less damage and wear to the road infrastructure over time.

5/21/2013 2:31:08 PM

Quote :

"I always thought the gas tax was fine... It's a use tax with an incentive to use smaller, more efficient cars that cause less damage and wear to the road infrastructure over time."

Agreed.

Quote :

"Being a bicyclist Id probably be happy to pay a small fee for it"

Why would you be okay with a fee for using the roads on your bike? A bicycle wears down roads an impossibly small amount. However your average car these days (including SUVs) probably weighs over 4000lbs. And electric cars are heavier than their gas counterparts. So it makes sense for them to pay an additional yearly fee to maintain the roads.

Personally I think the gas tax should be increased, or we should go to a usage/vehicle weight formula for taxing road use. The current system is underfunded and a growing problem.

[Edited on May 21, 2013 at 2:57 PM. Reason : k]

5/21/2013 2:57:00 PM

There are definitely flaws with the gas tax funding roads system. For example, my lawnmower doesn't use public roads, but the gaygas I pay for to run it was still taxed. Same with a lot of farm vehicles that aren't used on public roads but still have to pay the gas tax.

Going to a tax based on the number of miles driven isn't ideal, however, since different vehicles cause different amounts of damage/wear to the infrastructure... they GENERALLY use more gas so therefore pay more towards the roads in our current system, but again, electric/hybrids are an exception.

The other part of the miles driven system I don't care for is how intrusive it is... I don't want to government to track how much I drive or where I drive just to tax me.

This reminds me a lot of the debate several years back when people kept getting hit with fines and whatnot for not paying fuel taxes for their RV's that used recycled french fry oil.



[Edited on May 21, 2013 at 3:37 PM. Reason : ]

5/21/2013 3:35:15 PM

Quote :

" Why would you be okay with a fee for using the roads on your bike? A bicycle wears down roads an impossibly small amount. However your average car these days (including SUVs) probably weighs over 4000lbs. And electric cars are heavier than their gas counterparts. So it makes sense for them to pay an additional yearly fee to maintain the roads. Personally I think the gas tax should be increased, or we should go to a usage/vehicle weight formula for taxing road use. The current system is underfunded and a growing problem."

While true, bike riders do add costs, but primarily in cities (bike lanes), signage, etc.

5/21/2013 3:42:48 PM

Quote :

"The other part of the miles driven system I don't care for is how intrusive it is... I don't want to government to track how much I drive or where I drive just to tax me. "

True. And what about miles driven outside of the state of NC?

5/21/2013 3:43:19 PM

If those cyclists are using their bike instead of a car, then they are reducing costs. They are causing no wear on the roads and are not polluting (not to mention almost certainly providing that person with huge health benefits). We should be encouraging things like electric vehicles and bicycling.

The real problem here is that the overwhelming majority of people seem to believe that user fees are paying for the roads. They aren't. In fact, in North Carolina, which covers more of its road spending by user fees than any state but Delaware, Florida, and New Jersey, only 46% of the spending is paid for by user fees. The rest is from general revenue. For the United States, the average is 32%. So, those who drive less or don't drive at all are actually the ones subsidizing the rest.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/gasoline-taxes-and-tolls-pay-only-third-state-local-road-spending

As vehicles become more fuel efficient and electrics and hybrids become more prevalent, the gas tax issue is going to become greater and greater. Add that on to the fact that the federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993, while the cost of construction and repair has grown 55% over that time.

The best irony here is that Amtrak, which has for decades been one of the top targets of enemies of "wasteful government spending", covers 85% of its operating costs through user fees and 69% of its total costs including capital.


[Edited on May 21, 2013 at 3:55 PM. Reason : .]

5/21/2013 3:51:03 PM

Quote :

"In fact, in North Carolina, which covers more of its road spending by user fees than any state but Delaware, Florida, and New Jersey, only 46% of the spending is paid for by user fees. The rest is from general revenue. For the United States, the average is 32%. So, those who drive less or don't drive at all are actually the ones subsidizing the rest."

This seems to be an argument about the state budget as a whole, not roads. There are lots of services that don't raise any money at all.

5/21/2013 4:43:07 PM

Quote :

"The real problem here is that the overwhelming majority of people seem to believe that user fees are paying for the roads. They aren't."

except half of the road budget does come from user fees

5/21/2013 4:49:00 PM

That's what I said, though. The point is everyone is already paying 54% of the cost of the roads whether they use them or not, including electric car owners and bicyclists.

Quote :

"This seems to be an argument about the state budget as a whole, not roads. There are lots of services that don't raise any money at all."

True, but roads always seem to be held to a different standard. With this electric/hybrid thing a lot of people are all about making people pay "their fair share." But the reality is, if you look at it that way, no one is paying their fair share.

[Edited on May 21, 2013 at 5:01 PM. Reason : .]

5/21/2013 4:54:05 PM

Quote :

"except half of the road budget does come from user fees"

But what percentage of the user fees actually goes toward the road budget?

5/21/2013 5:05:59 PM

^^ I'm just going by the info ITT, and by that, I frankly don't know.

I'm not even clear if this 100%-54%=46% being thrown around here is including the gas tax itself. Is the state gas tax a "user fee" by current definitions? I can't even tell.

[Edited on May 21, 2013 at 5:47 PM. Reason : ]

5/21/2013 5:46:42 PM

The gas tax is included. It is the primary user fee that we have in this country.

Quote :

"Nationwide in 2010, state and local governments raised $37 billion in motor fuel taxes and $12 billion in tolls and non-fuel taxes, but spent $155 billion on highways."

5/21/2013 5:50:05 PM

Quote :

"need to nail the damn bicyclists too"

bicyclists are the gay marriage advocates of the road

5/21/2013 7:01:01 PM

In an ideal world, everyone would pay personal property, i.e. vehicle, tax by mileage (and maybe a surtax on extra-heavy vehicles) instead of by assessed value (which is absolute horseshit). Then this money would be used for transportation infrastructure. Obviously, the problem is that local governments levy personal property tax and not the state. For all but the most transparent, fiscally-well-managed local governments, personal property tax is just another scheme to increase general fund revenues which tend to go toward expenditures other than transportation.

The downside though, is that this could be considered a regressive tax since, at least with larger metro areas, poorer people tend to live farther away from their place of work due to lower housing costs (e.g. DC and its suburbs) and thus would pay more tax. But, it would be more equitable...

5/21/2013 7:04:32 PM

Quote :

"and maybe a surtax on extra-heavy vehicles"

we already have this. registration costs more for heavy vehicles.

5/21/2013 7:25:47 PM

This is so fucking stupid

Hybrid vehicles don't run on electricity while operating on the highway. Most switch over to gas anytime the car is going over 45mph. The benefit of driving a hybrid is realized on city roads where the battery is actually used.

Therefore, a vehicle's means of propulsion on state highways is 100% gasoline. A gas tax is then assumed on all highway miles travelled by a hybrid vehicle.

Do bicycle riders have to pay an extra tax? What about golfcarts, scooters, horses etc?

5/21/2013 7:26:32 PM

they should

share the road = share the tax

5/21/2013 7:30:46 PM

^this is a state tax. All hybrids use nothing, but gasoline on state highways. Therefore, they pay the same amount of gas tax as anyone else for their use of state highways.

All electric vehicles make sense since they don't use gas. Charging hybrids, however, is ridiculous.

5/21/2013 7:44:07 PM

Quote :

"There are definitely flaws with the gas tax funding roads system. For example, my lawnmower doesn't use public roads, but the gaygas I pay for to run it was still taxed. Same with a lot of farm vehicles that aren't used on public roads but still have to pay the gas tax. "

fuels for non-highway use are not taxed like the fuel you pump into your car at a gas station

5/21/2013 7:53:38 PM

http://www.dor.state.nc.us/downloads/motor.html

you need form 1201 from this page if you want to get your non-highway use gas tax refund

5/21/2013 8:10:46 PM

actually, that system was too easy and the state was missing out on too much money, so they came up with this complicated online system so folks wouldn't bother to actually pursue their funds: http://www.dor.state.nc.us/presentations/fuel/gas-1201_nonhighway.pdf

5/21/2013 8:23:11 PM

In case anyone is wondering, most of the damage done to roads is due to trucks, followed by weather. Passenger vehicles cause virtually no damage to the road.

This is why I support tolling I-95. Let all those interstate trucks who destroy our roads pay for them!

5/21/2013 9:07:49 PM

I will be so glad when I-40 in Raleigh is rebuilt so I won't lose control of my car whenever I cross a bridge

5/21/2013 9:28:00 PM

Quote :

"fuels for non-highway use are not taxed like the fuel you pump into your car at a gas station"

didn't know that.

5/22/2013 7:20:34 AM