for handgun purchases

bill eliminates the requirement of the local sheriff to issue handgun permits, a process that could potentially include racial bias.

http://www.wral.com/new-gun-bill-draft-eliminates-pistol-purchase-permit-system/12539332/

6/11/2013 7:11:09 PM

THE OUTRAGE

6/11/2013 8:04:50 PM

6/11/2013 8:07:02 PM

oh shit I moved...backs out of thread

6/11/2013 8:07:23 PM

Glad I moved

6/11/2013 8:15:31 PM

this bill makes me very happy

6/11/2013 8:17:46 PM

the biggest problem i have with the bill is

Quote :

"private sales of handguns, as often occur at gun shows, would no longer require a pistol purchase permit, and there would be no background check requirement. "

this is how a lot of criminals get their guns. i have seen hidden camera docu where they go into a gun show and get a partner to buy the gun after telling the seller that they could not pass a background check.

i also have issues with allowing people to carry where there is an abundance of alcohololololol

its illegal to dink and carry so why allow them there in the first place? JUST IN CASE someone needs to get shot i guess

6/11/2013 8:25:49 PM

I like how that guys argument for CC is 9 hours of class, like that's some amazing, rigorous gauntlet you are put through

6/11/2013 8:28:50 PM

Quote :

"The new version of the Senate bill would allow hunting with noise suppressors"

I am fairly ignorant of the finer points of gun law, but I was under the impression that suppressors required some pretty big hoops to jump through to purchase. Is this going to make it easier?

And it seems like the removal of a handgun permit only benefits criminals, since now there's really no chance of them getting background checked at a gun show.

Quote :

"i also have issues with allowing people to carry where there is an abundance of alcohol"

This has always blown my mind as to why people think it's a good idea to mix crowds of intoxicated people and concealed handguns. I think even if this is upheld to its highest standards, every CC holder is abstaining from alcohol while carrying, and no one without a CC brings a firearm into the bar, it still seems like the situation where a simple bar fight could turn into a shooting.

6/11/2013 8:43:35 PM

what, like my house?
beer fucking everywhere

6/11/2013 8:46:16 PM

Quote :

"I am fairly ignorant of the finer points of gun law, but I was under the impression that suppressors required some pretty big hoops to jump through to purchase. Is this going to make it easier?"

no, you will still have to go through the NFA process. the bill would simply allow you to use it for hunting. the ban on suppressors for hunting was due to concerns with poaching in the 1930s. now the state wants you to kill all the deer you can b/c we're overrun with them.

contrary to what you see in the movies, most suppressed firearms are still quite loud. they don't go "pew pew" like they did in Goldeneye.

Quote :

"And it seems like the removal of a handgun permit only benefits criminals, since now there's really no chance of them getting background checked at a gun show."

the vast majority of sales at gun shows are from a licensed dealer. they are required by law to perform a background check. the NC handgun purchase permit isn't even a background check. some sheriffs do perform a background check of sorts before issuing one, but all the law really requires is a yes or no from the sheriff.

Quote :

"This has always blown my mind as to why people think it's a good idea to mix crowds of intoxicated people and concealed handguns. I think even if this is upheld to its highest standards, every CC holder is abstaining from alcohol while carrying, and no one without a CC brings a firearm into the bar, it still seems like the situation where a simple bar fight could turn into a shooting."

this should be up to the property owner. this bill would leave it up to them. if they don't want folks legally carrying in their bar, then all they have to do is put up a sign. of course, that won't do shit to actually stop someone, just like it doesn't do anything now.

[Edited on June 11, 2013 at 8:56 PM. Reason : dfas]

6/11/2013 8:54:30 PM

is there anything in the bill about honoring permits from other states?
I know we have a little something going in that vein, but I would like to know more.

6/11/2013 8:57:21 PM

NC honors any permit from a state that will also honor our permit. it's a pretty good list.

6/11/2013 9:02:27 PM

This is pretty cool. Did I read over or not see how many you are allowed to buy?

6/11/2013 9:30:05 PM

currently they'll let you buy up to 3 HPP, if i remember correctly. i've never bought a HPP. went straight to CHP.

6/11/2013 9:31:35 PM

You can buy as many as you want, but beyond 5 at a time and the SBI does the check rather than the local sheriff's office and takes much longer.

6/11/2013 9:35:03 PM

I'm just glad the NC Republicans are focusing on the major issues

6/11/2013 9:57:57 PM

It's gonna be harder to get Sudafed than a gun

[Edited on June 11, 2013 at 10:01 PM. Reason : .]

6/11/2013 10:01:23 PM

The argument that criminals never got their permits anyway pisses me off. It removes another charge you can file.

It removes the ability to charge a criminal with possession, and removes the ability to charge people selling gins to felons, lowlifes, and miscreants that everyone thinks they need protection from.

6/11/2013 10:18:20 PM

^ I'm not quite sure you know what a HPP actually is

6/12/2013 1:54:37 AM

then fucking tell him what it is or where he's mistaken

or just cry about magazine/clip bullet/cartridge all fucking day

[Edited on June 12, 2013 at 2:02 AM. Reason : you gun nut piece of pussy lint]

6/12/2013 2:01:52 AM

lot'o stupid ITT.

Quote :

"this is how a lot of criminals get their guns. i have seen hidden camera docu where they go into a gun show and get a partner to buy the gun after telling the seller that they could not pass a background check. "

Some? Sure. But even at gunshows, deals with FFLs (dealers) require NICS checks. Under the current bill, it would equate long gun and pistol sales between private parties, e.g. no NICS. Personally, if the NICS system were improved I would prefer all sales (not transfers) go through NICS.

Quote :

"i also have issues with allowing people to carry where there is an abundance of alcohololololol "

I didn't realize my home was such a bad place. Or Qdoba. Or Applebee's. Or the thousands of places that just happen to serve alcohol. It would still be illegal to consume while carrying. Some people don't care to be disarmed while they stop by to pick up lunch.

Quote :

"I like how that guys argument for CC is 9 hours of class, like that's some amazing, rigorous gauntlet you are put through"

You're right. His argument should have been: Second Amendment.

Quote :

"And it seems like the removal of a handgun permit only benefits criminals, since now there's really no chance of them getting background checked at a gun show."

Wat. Sales through dealers always require NICS, even at gunshows. The PPP (Pistol Purchase Permit) was just a way to let Sheriffs discriminate. It has no bearing on going through NICS.

Quote :

"This has always blown my mind as to why people think it's a good idea to mix crowds of intoxicated people and concealed handguns. I think even if this is upheld to its highest standards, every CC holder is abstaining from alcohol while carrying, and no one without a CC brings a firearm into the bar, it still seems like the situation where a simple bar fight could turn into a shooting."

Yes, Applebee's at noon on Tuesdays is one hell of a drunk crowded place.

Quote :

"It's gonna be harder to get Sudafed than a gun"

Where is sudafed in the constitution?

[Edited on June 12, 2013 at 9:03 AM. Reason : ,]

6/12/2013 9:02:36 AM

^I commend your responses yet must rebut the last one with "..The pursuit of happiness"

6/12/2013 9:16:58 AM

Quote :

"lot'o stupid ITT"

Quote :

"I didn't realize my home was such a bad place. Or Qdoba. Or Applebee's"

Quote :

"Yes, Applebee's at noon on Tuesdays is one hell of a drunk crowded place"

You really think people concerned about this law are really concerned with concealed carry at a lunch counter?

And who said anything about your home? I didn't realize that this law changed anything about your right to carry a concealed weapon in your own home.

Also,

Quote :

" Sales through dealers always require NICS, even at gunshows"

Like i said, I'm not knowledgeable the finer points of gun laws so I didn't realize that gun shows only allowed dealers to sell firearms. I had always thought that there were also lots of private sales happening at these shows as well. When I went to the Dixie Classic I saw hundreds of people walking around with firearms advertised for sale in the show that weren't at a table I didn't realize they were just roving dealers.

6/12/2013 9:43:45 AM

as did i. i saw random joe plumbers walking around with guns and signs sticking out of the barrel saying for sale. so i have no clue where he got that from

and he talks about stupid in this thread and then makes some horrible analogies. you failed bro. #doyouevenshoot?

[Edited on June 12, 2013 at 9:47 AM. Reason : sdf]

6/12/2013 9:46:46 AM

Which is sad, because it does more harm than good. I usually lean right when it comes to gun laws, but when I hear arguments from an ardent 2nd amendment supporter that include circular logic, ignore the main issue and resort to name calling and finger pointing, it makes me think maybe some people should need a few more hoops to jump through before being allowed a gun.

6/12/2013 9:51:44 AM

Quote :

"Some people don't care to be disarmed while they stop by to pick up lunch."

I mean really?

6/12/2013 10:13:23 AM

I heard from a guy once there's a pizza shop in Virginia Beach that will let you open carry. You could always try there, they'll even give you a discount.

If it's true I can only assume the owner is a sane and rational person with a firm understanding of second amendment rights who is more than happy to welcome armed civilians.

6/12/2013 2:45:36 PM

I don't see any reason why I should not be allowed to carry somewhere that dispenses alcohol, as long as I'm not drinking. If I take my family out to lunch at a mexican restaurant, explain to me how my gun is doing any good sitting in the car? I'm sure that people that are illegally carrying already are going to worry about this law and not bring it in a restaurant that has a bar as well.

That is my point about this. Its one thing to haul a gun to the club where I plan to get shitfaced. Its another when a "bar" basically includes most sit dine-in restaurants in the area. I think the chances are much higher that my gun gets stolen out of my car while I sit inside the restaurant than bothering anybody else in my pocket.

6/12/2013 3:28:06 PM

whether or not a firearm is allowed on private property should be up to the property owner

6/12/2013 3:35:18 PM

^^Much better put, thank you.

I don't have a problem with allowing guns in restaurants or bars, but I think this allowance is too broad. We have several great neighborhood bars and restaurants near us that I'd have no problem with someone carrying a concealed weapon into if I'm eating lunch there. However, at around 11, those bars and restaurants are no longer primarily serving food, but alcohol. The crowd turns from families out for a bite, to crowds of people out for a drink.

At what point does a CC allowance stop being a deterrent to something like Luby's and start becoming fuel to the fire in a bar fight?

And I'd like to point out that the last "bar" fight I saw was in downtown Apex. Two girls came out of some clothes shop that was hosting a wine tasting or something, starting yelling at each other, and then starting hitting. It ended up with one girl on the sidewalk getting kicked in the face by the other. The BF of the girl getting pummeled ran and got a tire iron and chased the other girl off. If he or the girl on the ground had been armed, at what point would they be justified to open fire on the girl doing the kicking? What safeties were there for me and the rest of the crowd sitting outside at Salem Street Pub from getting caught in the crossfire?

6/12/2013 3:46:19 PM

^ the fight happened on the sidewalk, what does that have to do with this law? couldn't he have just as easily gone to his car to get a gun?

6/12/2013 4:59:47 PM

Quote :

"And it seems like the removal of a handgun permit only benefits criminals, since now there's really no chance of them getting background checked at a gun show"

Quote :

"Under the Senate version of the bill, you would either need a concealed handgun permit or have to submit to a criminal background check if you buy a handgun from a licensed dealer"

6/12/2013 5:36:45 PM

Quote :

"You really think people concerned about this law are really concerned with concealed carry at a lunch counter? "

Yes, I am. And it's a large part of the support behind this change. As it has always been called: restaurant carry. Besides, as NRR put it, carry on private property should be up to the owner, not state. If you're concerned about bar/club carry (i.e. no food served), I don't necessarily disagree, but see previous sentence. In the end, I wouldn't push hard against such a law, provided bar/club vs restaurant is clearly and properly defined.

Quote :

"And who said anything about your home? I didn't realize that this law changed anything about your right to carry a concealed weapon in your own home. "

No shit. The statement was a generalized point of places with abundant alcohol. The reply was a generalized point of a place with abundant alcohol.

Quote :

"Like i said, I'm not knowledgeable the finer points of gun laws so I didn't realize that gun shows only allowed dealers to sell firearms. I had always thought that there were also lots of private sales happening at these shows as well. When I went to the Dixie Classic I saw hundreds of people walking around with firearms advertised for sale in the show that weren't at a table I didn't realize they were just roving dealers."

And no one said gunshows don't have private sales. The example used was a gunshow, but this is irrelevant to NICS for private sales. Why don't we talk facts and say, private sales don't/won't require NICS. And as already stated, I already agree with NICS for all sales, provided some changes to that system are already made. Absent those changes, I can't really argue against what's been proposed.

6/12/2013 10:13:41 PM