This is (and isn't) another one of "those threads". I give data, you give suggestion, I say [NO]... everyone "learns" in the process. Sounds fun right?

This is mainly brought on due to space- my wife and I have a 2yr old and another on the way- with two car seats, my long legs, and shopping to do this eliminates 2+2, coupes, and most sedans unfortunately. Other matters of importance:
-fuel economy (need 15+ mpg city)
-price ( < $10K)

My front running candidate to this point would be BMW E46 3 series wagon, or perhaps a E39 5 series, or Mercedes W210 E320. As much as I hate to consider a W211 chassis after hearing all types of bad shit for years, I will say that the W211 (04-06 or so E class) is a "pretty" enough car to have made the cut thus far. As a plus with the German vehicles I am somewhat plugged in with regards to repair info, experience and affordable parts. Still, other makes and/or other vehicle types that fit the criteria are not off the table (except for Subaru, don't ask) so I am interested in hearing any ideas.

10/14/2013 4:21:16 PM

toyota sienna

do it

wagons ain't got shit

[Edited on October 14, 2013 at 5:06 PM. Reason : odysseys no good]

10/14/2013 5:05:16 PM

I haven't spent much time looking, but the sub-$10k minivan market is horrible. And while I am sure that I could find some one-geriatric-owner Sienna with a couple redeeming qualities (maybe really low mileage and super clean) there aint no way in hell my wife will even think about driving it. Basically even if you offered her a brand new minivan with heated/cooled seats, a built in fridge, vacuum cleaner, sat TV, and iPads in the headrests, it still wouldn't be enough.

10/14/2013 5:33:07 PM

If you're considering BMW and Mercedes, why is Audi off the table? If you're considering a W211 partially based on looks, why not an A6 Avant? On the Japanese front, perhaps you could track down one of the 15 or so TSX wagons that made it into this country, though I don't know if that would make the price cut. For another rare Japanese bird you could go looking for a V6 Mazda 6 wagon, though the interior finishes would be less premium than what you're expecting/accustomed to

Dodge Magnum? Or is that too gangsta? The SRT-8 probably would miss your MPG criteria but the R/T with the "standard" Hemi would have no issues with it.

10/14/2013 6:44:08 PM

Bees of those ages are good robust cars, the mercy of that age have decent to good drive lines but will have broken shit on the interior from over complicated shit.


Audis frame the mid 90s kinda suck and nearly all the ones under 10 k will have regular maintenance issues. Turbos going, coil packs letting go, mafs shitting the bed (yes multiple on some cars).

I agree with him that I would get a 328 or a 530 or something

The cheaper dodge hemis are kinda are shitty too moms 300 was 56,000 miles, impeccably maintained and still had tranny issues.

[Edited on October 14, 2013 at 7:45 PM. Reason : .]

10/14/2013 7:43:46 PM

volvo v70 or 850 wagon - chip to 300hp, still get >24mpg. available under 5k with pretty amazing crash rating

10/14/2013 8:45:23 PM

A v70 would get well over 24mpg. Mine got closer to 28 or so, highway that is.

10/14/2013 11:32:59 PM

came here to say V70 or 850 wagon, but i see that's been taken care of.

and after reading the TSX wagon suggestion, i thought of another rare jap luxury wagon: Lexus IS300 SportCross.

10/15/2013 1:24:10 AM

Sport cross actually gets pretty crappy mileage I think it would meet his goals but for 220 hp or there abouts the miles is pretty terrible.

10/15/2013 5:40:57 AM

you don't think it would manage 15 mpg? that's like rolls royce/bentley (with V12s) territory!

10/15/2013 7:15:53 AM

Re-read that post hoss.

10/15/2013 8:30:21 AM

buy a motherfucking bicycle!!! i am NOT kidding or trolling. the difference you will save in health care and transpo costs will more than cover swithing from fulltime to part time.

when you need a car for real and not being lazy, you can just rent one! never have to clean it, pay for a garage for it, insure it, worry about it, replace it.

FREEDOM BABY!!!

so many stupid fucks spend like 20% of their year as slaves donating money to a stupid fucking automobile.

10/15/2013 8:34:48 AM

Dodge Magnum - too much ugly, and too much plastic
Audi- perhaps
Volvo- a very special kind of ugly. Warming her up to a wagon might be possible. Warming her up to a Volvo might be possible. But both? Doubt it.

10/15/2013 8:50:53 AM

I think a v70 would be great.

10/15/2013 8:56:37 AM

volvo wagons, along with audi wagons, are pretty much agreed upon to be the best looking wagons.

and the 850 looks even better than the v70.

10/15/2013 9:09:36 AM

Sir, let me encourage you to take just a moment and step out of the classic American paradigm of choosing a new car. The progression of youth has so many milestones, some more beneficial than others.... fuck im tired. get a bicycle, biths

cant we just tax gasoline and electricity and shit like ciggarettes???? god damn!!!

why is the world run by the stupid and greedy!!!

10/15/2013 11:40:04 AM

I thought of the IS300 Sportcross but it might be too small. Technically a wagon but space is probably closer to a hatchback with that steeply raked D-pillar. The CTS Sportwagon would have the same problem (but is way too new to be had for < $10K anyway)

10/15/2013 12:28:35 PM

Don't the v70, and most volvo wagons, have those huge hideous tail lamps? The XC90 is the only Volvo of any interest to her. We checked one out, and what a piece of junk. I hope they aren't all falling apart like this one was, but they probably are. Plus, the prices are high! Dealing with cars that retain so much value is a bad way to get the most for your dollar. So no go on those.


Also, not really interested in a Japanese car. See above comments on retained value.

[Edited on October 15, 2013 at 3:50 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2013 3:45:42 PM

10/15/2013 3:56:26 PM

10/15/2013 5:15:33 PM

I’m biased, but if budget is really fixed

E39 530i wagon
E39 525i wagon

E39s’ll nickel and dime you though in that price range. Benz and Volvo both have better safety ratings, and considering you’ll two little ones, that should be high on the list. I’d vote for Volvo wagon, but I’m just not a fan. Benzes before 2005 tend to have quite a few quality problems. Either early to mid 90s or post 2005s. Years in between have been problematic.

My family had E46 325xit wagon. I’d scratch it off the list. It is seriously small inside for what you’re looking for. Like you said, minivans are awful in that range.

You’ve crossed out sedans, but I’d personally add $2k more to the budget and get a 100k miles ’06+ S430 or S500. Large, SAFE, fast, comfortable amazing family car for $12-13k.



[Edited on October 15, 2013 at 5:29 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2013 5:27:44 PM

^^ smoothcrim, I understand what you are trying to get at, but this isn't for me alone, and that does make a huge impact on the decision. I would never consider forcing my wife to haul my two kids around in:
-something she thinks is ugly
-something I have limited experience in and even less time to start learning (volvo)


^ I too had concerns about the actual interior room in the e46, especially the rear seat once two car seats are installed. This, and a few other smaller cosmetic/aesthetic details ended up crossing the BMW wagons off the list altogether. I was a little sad, but not having to maintain a BMW for her will make it easier to justify maintaining a BMW for me.

With regards to the W221 chassis S Class- there isn't much german I would be afraid of, but 221's... yeah after the issues of the W220 chassis, I would rather not. Plus like you said, it would be out of budget. SO... we actually bought a one-owner W211 (2004) E320 wagon like the white one above. Came close to saving 25% of my budget, should get over 20MPG, plenty of room, and it isn't some horrible looking plastic sweedish brick.

10/16/2013 1:26:21 PM

I think those wagons are super classy, well done.

I really want a smaller wagon for mom though if she wanted something bigger, that would be on the top of my list as well.

10/16/2013 1:35:25 PM

plasti-dip the chrome and murder it out, then drop it on airbags

10/16/2013 1:43:44 PM

Congrats on the purchase. The E class sedan would have been my pick as well, or a Volvo turbo wagon. I was raised on Volvo wagons (parents have had 7 since 1983) and my family has never had any serious problems with them.

10/16/2013 3:43:55 PM