http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/29/21222195-obama-administration-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite

They've been lying for over four years about "you can keep your plan if you like it", and they've had the facts to prove it for at least three.

10/29/2013 7:33:53 PM

oh jesus another rethug fox news link

10/29/2013 7:41:33 PM

train. wreck.

10/29/2013 7:46:20 PM

Shut up rethugnican.

Or is it rethuglican?

Obama is going to drone your ass motherfucker.

10/29/2013 7:46:48 PM

You're pretty dumb if you thought that 100% of people could keep their plans.

Who knew politics would be involved in the heavily politicized ACA...

10/29/2013 7:46:50 PM

Quote :

"You're pretty dumb if you thought that 100% of people could keep their plans. "

I don't think anyone thought that. 40-67% is crazy, though, considering what they claimed.

10/29/2013 7:47:59 PM

^

10/29/2013 7:55:13 PM

TWW's resident Obama apologists sure are being silent about this bold-faced, 3-year lie from their lord and saviour. Guess they need to get their talking points straight in order to explain why "you can keep your policy" doesn't mean "you can keep your policy"

10/29/2013 11:02:50 PM

Liberals are always surprised when the poor, dumb, ignorant masses don't anticipate things like this will happen.

You know, let's dumb it down and explain it explicitly after the fact. After all, we have to pass it to see what's inside.

All Obama had to do was clarify that he wasn't referring to policies that didn't meet the ACA minimum requirements.

Simple.

10/29/2013 11:18:22 PM

The individual market is about 5% of the market. 40-67% of this market is like 2.5% of the overall market.

Pretty sure no one cares if 2.5% of people were lied to. Woe is them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/your-private-health-insurance-is-really-a-government-program-2013-10

10/30/2013 12:28:14 AM

I haven't believed that "if you like your plan, you can keep it" since the fact-checkers pointed out this wasn't true, back when health-insurance reform was under debate over 4 years ago: http://www.factcheck.org/2013/10/reality-confronts-obamas-false-promise/
FactCheck article from back in the day: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/keep-your-insurance-not-everyone/
Also Politifact gave it a "Half-True" back then: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/11/barack-obama/barack-obama-promises-you-can-keep-your-health-ins/

I didn't think that anyone else took that slogan at face value, and also that the kind of policies that would get discontinued because they failed to meet the minimum requirements are the ones that nobody would actually "like" but instead only get because, pre-subsidy, they were all they could afford.

Quote :

"All Obama had to do was clarify that he wasn't referring to policies that didn't meet the ACA minimum requirements. Simple."

Stuff like this is why I don't like oversimplification: Sure, the details may be complicated and difficult to put in a campaign slogan, but they're important.

10/30/2013 5:24:20 AM

40-67% is close to the average change rate of individual plans regardless of ACA. and most of this is due to insurance companies dropping plans. this is not the fault of aca entirely. also, if you believe the spin this week from the republicans, you haven't learned much in the past few years. they are throwing as much shit against the wall as possible.

source: http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-obamacare-20131029,0,5695979.story#axzz2jCW6usNq

Quote :

"As a result, millions of policyholders are now being informed that their nonconforming policies are being canceled as of Dec. 31. The idea, of course, is for them to get new policies under Obamacare as of Jan. 1. NBC is breathing heavily over its investigative "discovery" that "because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, 40 to 67% of customers will not be able to keep their policy" mostly because they changed plans. But is this news? No: The exact same figure was put out by the Obama Adminsitration -- in 2010. Here's a release from the Department of Health and Human Services from June that year, explaining that "40% to two-thirds of people" in the individual market normally change plans in a year, and thus would no longer be in grandfathered plans. Did Obama "know"? Yes, but so did anyone else who was paying attention, including reporters covering healthcare."

10/30/2013 6:51:34 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/05/obama-tweaks-message-about-keeping-health-plans-under-obamacare/

lol doubling down on his lie

11/5/2013 4:46:17 PM

Its pretty pathetic that no one cares.

11/5/2013 4:50:06 PM

How is describing the grandfather clause "doubling down" or a "lie"?

11/5/2013 5:00:11 PM

Nope.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/06/what-does-the-presidents-promise-youll-be-able-to-keep-your-health-care-plan-period-really-mean/

Quote :

"“When I say if you have your plan and you like it,…or you have a doctor and you like your doctor, that you don’t have to change plans, what I’m saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform,” the President said. - Jun 23, 2009 1:59pm"

So technically, he never lied. Misled? Absolutely, but remember this was all in response to the GOP fear mongering a government takeover of the health care industry. Which actually was a lie.

11/5/2013 5:21:01 PM

Politicians buying votes and their supporters lapping it up. Really shocking stuff here.

11/5/2013 5:29:42 PM

d357r0y3r above the fray. Really shocking stuff here.

11/5/2013 5:33:34 PM

Yep. This was dishonest as shit, even by politician standards.

11/5/2013 6:32:02 PM

I would say par for the course by politician standards, which are really low standards.

Those statements were made against a backdrop of "death panel" claims.

The Koch brothers are running ads right now with Uncle Sam digging in vaginas and butts.

Obamas response has been pretty poor. People should not be surprised when someone is hurt by legislation, as legislation by necessity will always hurt some group. Politicians need to be willing to say who will be hurt by laws and why, and how this hurt is better than the hurt of the status quo.

Considering the small percentage of people this affects, this should have been a pretty straightforward apology and explanation.

The Obama admin, for all their election mojo, seems to have 0 communication talent. Their response to snowden, drones, aca rollout has been abysmal.

11/5/2013 7:59:29 PM

Quote :

"Politicians need to be willing to say who will be hurt by laws and why, and how this hurt is better than the hurt of the status quo."

Politically impossible. The people that are directly hurt are young, healthy, working individuals. The people that are helped are elderly and sick people. This is a redistribution from the former group to the latter. Many people argue that redistribution like that is absolutely necessary.

Politics is the art of playing up benefits and covering up consequences.

11/5/2013 8:10:40 PM

After the current batch of elderly and sick people die, there will be no more elderly and sick people.

11/5/2013 8:40:39 PM

yall hipsters postin on page 1 of a troll thread...

11/5/2013 9:05:33 PM

Quote :

"After the current batch of elderly and sick people die, there will be no more elderly and sick people."

Is this supposed to be an argument?

Of course there are going to be more elderly and sick. I don't want to be forced to pay for any of them, past, future, or present.

11/6/2013 12:10:30 AM

Yes, and I'm sure you'll keep up your end of the bargain and not avail yourself of any sort of insurance.

11/6/2013 12:15:42 AM

^^ huh?

It's impossible for you to not pay for them, unless you just kill yourself:

http://www.businessinsider.com/your-private-health-insurance-is-really-a-government-program-2013-10

[Edited on November 6, 2013 at 12:17 AM. Reason : Bsj]

11/6/2013 12:17:17 AM

I'm sure he'll be back with some shit about government violence.

I do hope d357r0y3r doesn't carry homeowner's/renter's insurance.

11/6/2013 12:20:15 AM

Quote :

"I don't want to be forced to pay for any of them, past, future, or present."

11/6/2013 10:25:00 AM

get off the internet, you didn't build that.
(although you are humorous)

but yeah, he's a liar.

11/6/2013 10:48:11 AM

Quote :

"The individual market is about 5% of the market. 40-67% of this market is like 2.5% of the overall market. Pretty sure no one cares if 2.5% of people were lied to. Woe is them. "

You're overlooking the high percentage of people that got their insurance through their employer but are also losing their plans.

11/6/2013 10:52:39 AM

Quote :

"I don't want to be forced to pay for any of them, past, future, or present."

So you really don't have a problem with insurance, you just don't like being told what to do.

You sound like a five-year-old complaining about her vegetables at dinnertime, or theDuke866 bitching about speed limits.

11/6/2013 11:09:32 AM

I'd assume the complaint is being told to participate in an idiotic system.

Like someone not having a problem being drafted to fight WW2 but throwing a fit if they were drafted to invade Iraq.

11/6/2013 11:16:35 AM

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/insurance-companies-misleading-letters-obamacare
Special Investigation: How Insurers Are Hiding Obamacare Benefits From Customers

Quote :

"Across the country, insurance companies have sent misleading letters to consumers, trying to lock them into the companies' own, sometimes more expensive health insurance plans rather than let them shop for insurance and tax credits on the Obamacare marketplaces -- which could lead to people like Donna spending thousands more for insurance than the law intended. In some cases, mentions of the marketplace in those letters are relegated to a mere footnote, which can be easily overlooked. The extreme lengths to which some insurance companies are going to hold on to existing customers at higher price, as the Affordable Care Act fundamentally re-orders the individual insurance market, has caught the attention of state insurance regulators. The insurance companies argue that it's simply capitalism at work. But regulators don't see it that way. By warning customers that their health insurance plans are being canceled as a result of Obamacare and urging them to secure new insurance plans before the Obamacare launched on Oct. 1, these insurers put their customers at risk of enrolling in plans that were not as good or as affordable as what they could buy on the marketplaces. TPM has confirmed two specific examples where companies contacted their customers prior to the marketplace's Oct. 1 opening and pushed them to renew their health coverage at a higher price than they would pay through the marketplace. State regulators identified the schemes, but they weren't necessarily able to stop them. It's not yet clear how widespread this practice became in the months leading up to the marketplace's opening -- or how many Americans will end up paying more than they should be for health coverage. But misleading letters have been sent out in at least four states across the country, and one offending carrier, Humana, is a company with a national reach. "If you're an insurance company, you're trying to hang onto the consumers you have at the highest price you can get them," Laura Etherton, a health policy analyst at the U.S. Public Interest Research Group, told TPM. "You can take advantage of the confusion about what people get to have now. It's a new world. It's disappointing that insurance companies are sending confusing letters to consumers to take advantage of that confusion. The reality is that this could do real harm.""

11/6/2013 11:27:23 AM

If the government wasn't such a monopolist and allowed people to claim their tax credits even if they didn't buy through healthcare.gov, then insurance companies offering to insure the newly uninsured wouldn't be a problem.

11/6/2013 11:38:13 AM

Quote :

"So you really don't have a problem with insurance, you just don't like being told what to do. You sound like a five-year-old complaining about her vegetables at dinnertime, or theDuke866 bitching about speed limits."

It's kind of like how I enjoy sex, but I don't want to be raped. I want to be able to choose my partner, I don't want one forced onto me by the state. And, no, it doesn't make it better if the government says, "Alright, you are required to have sex with one of these three women".

I'll just ignore the weird paternalism thing.

11/6/2013 12:22:56 PM

we all understand your opinion, you don't have to post it every opportunity you get

11/6/2013 12:34:35 PM

11/6/2013 12:57:51 PM

^^^ lol, you're not forced to do anything. Just pay a fee if you want, and don't get any insurance,and never use any hospitals or clinics.

11/6/2013 1:20:02 PM

but taxes are government violence!! the government collects them by using threats of violence!! its slavery!!!

rinse, repeat

11/6/2013 1:22:44 PM

Or don't buy insurance and don't pay the fee. It's damn near unenforceable as long as you aren't owed a refund.

11/6/2013 1:23:38 PM

That deal with it get this one of the funniest things I've seen on the Internet all day.

[Edited on November 6, 2013 at 3:49 PM. Reason : H]

11/6/2013 3:49:37 PM

witchcraft.

11/6/2013 6:45:31 PM

I just want to know what insurance d357r0y3r has that doesn't cover sick people.

11/7/2013 12:38:53 AM

Quote :

"and most of this is due to insurance companies dropping plans. this is not the fault of aca entirely."

how the fuck do you figure? Put down the Kool-Aid. ACA said "you can't sell these plans anymore", but it's not the fault of ACA that companies are now cancelling plans that they can no longer sell? What in the flying fuck are you smoking, because I want some of it!

Quote :

"But is this news? No: The exact same figure was put out by the Obama Adminsitration -- in 2010."

THE FUCK? THAT'S THE WHOLE GOD DAMNED POINT!!! OBAMA KEPT FUCKING TRUMPETING HIS "You can keep your policy" LIE WHILE HE FUCKING KNEW IT WASN'T TRUE. Did you HONESTLY pull that out with a straight face? I really want some of what you are smoking!!!

Quote :

"Considering the small percentage of people this affects, this should have been a pretty straightforward apology and explanation. "

Small percentage? It's hurting the exact group of people the law was supposed to help: those on the individual market or without health insurance. Get out of here with those talking points, man.

11/8/2013 11:24:38 PM