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 Message Boards » » **** Let's Invade Saudi Arabia **** Page 1 [2] 3, Prev Next  
rjrumfel
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Can someone give me the TL;DR version of why this is such a big deal?

10/12/2018 12:50:47 PM

wdprice3
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wrong story

[Edited on October 12, 2018 at 1:13 PM. Reason : .]

10/12/2018 1:11:51 PM

NyM410
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^^ would you be OK if the German consulate in NYC decided to lure and kill Sean Hannity because he spoke bad about Angela Merkel?

How is this NOT a big story?

10/12/2018 1:18:22 PM

moron
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Saudi Arabia has been doing grimey things for a while (pretty much every country has for that matter-- including the USA).

I think what's different this time is that the US is not even paying lip service to the idea that this is wrong.... that assassinating journalists who print unfavorable articles is a bad idea.

If the US is functionally condoning this kind of behavior, that's a big deal. No journalist is safe anymore if the Saudis want them dead. Considering MBS is personal friends with Jared Kushner, it's also easy to see how anti-Trump reporters could be in danger too.

Some people will argue the US has always accepted Saudi $$$ to look the other way for atrocities, but I think there's a big difference in how it affects future actions when we have to publicly and openly condemn atrocities, to now tacitly condoning atrocities.

Quote :
"WaPo reported: “Before Khashoggi’s disappearance, U.S. intelligence intercepted communications of Saudi officials discussing a plan to capture him, according to a person familiar with the information.”

I asked ODNI: Why wouldn’t the US warn him?

ODNI: No comment."



[Edited on October 12, 2018 at 1:33 PM. Reason : ]

10/12/2018 1:27:16 PM

rjrumfel
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LOL @ moron thinking that Putin-style hits on anti-Trump reporters are going to be a thing.

I think he wants Trump to do these kinds of things, and is disappointed if they don't happen.

And Nym, I was just asking b/c I haven't heard this issue before. For all I care, they could put out a hit on Hannity. Besides, he's not a reporter. So was the reporter a Saudi citizen or Turkish citizen?

10/12/2018 2:50:19 PM

rjrumfel
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Ok so I went and read about it because you guys, rather than giving me TL;DR, berated me.

So lemme get this straight. A Saudi citizen gets murdered by Saudis on sovereign Saudi land in Turkey....that about sum it up?

10/12/2018 3:02:31 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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I'm going to assume that ^^ was hyperbole.

You left out that he was a journalist who was critical of Mohammed bin Salman and that he was potentially tortured and dismembered inside the consulate.

Perhaps less noteworthy is that he left his fiance waiting outside the consulate for hours, because he was visiting the consulate to obtain paperwork that he needed for their upcoming wedding.

[Edited on October 12, 2018 at 3:25 PM. Reason : ]

10/12/2018 3:24:28 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"For all I care, they could put out a hit on Hannity. Besides, he's not a reporter. So was the reporter a Saudi citizen or Turkish citizen?"


jesus christ, man

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi-mourned-his-friends-washington/572842/

10/12/2018 3:30:04 PM

moron
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Quote :
"
LOL @ moron thinking that Putin-style hits on anti-Trump reporters are going to be a thing."


This guy was a legal resident of America and a contributor to an American newspaper

And trump is saying it’s okay the saudis assassinated him

For reference, melania trump’s parents had the same residency status until like 2 weeks ago. Most permanent residents here view themselves as Americans.

[Edited on October 12, 2018 at 4:26 PM. Reason : ]

10/12/2018 4:24:32 PM

adultswim
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https://politics.theonion.com/trump-administration-urges-saudis-to-stick-to-killing-r-1829713565

10/12/2018 6:12:41 PM

TerdFerguson
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^the onion is never better than when it points out media coverage inconsistency. Yemen is a nightmare.


I also just wanted to pop in and remind everyone that Jared Kushner allegedly leaked US intel to Mohammed bin Salman at the whitehouse. MBS went on his Riyadh Ritz-Carlton torture fest shortly after that.

If this dude was somehow included in the intel Kushner passed......Jesus christ.

10/12/2018 6:53:33 PM

rjrumfel
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Sooooo I'm certainly concerned about ^ if that is true

10/12/2018 10:06:49 PM

TerdFerguson
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This was the most damning report from that time (happened on Oct-nov 2017, reports published in the months after):

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5575395/Saudi-crown-prince-brags-Jared-Kushner-handed-U-S-intelligence.html

10/13/2018 8:03:00 AM

0EPII1
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Everybody should read this, especially if all you care about is how it will affect MURRCA and don't give a damn about the calculated cold-blooded [alleged] murder of someone who hated being called a dissident and referred to himself as a patriot. He was the mildest dissident ever, and did not even curse "the family" or call for their removal (unlike every other Saudi self-exiled dissident); he just wanted what was good for his country and genuinely, thoughtfully, intellectually, and rationally criticized the actions of "the family", not just for the sake of it or to just be in opposition. If the Saudis can do that to a mild-as-fuck 'dissident', imagine what they can do to real dissidents.

Five things to watch for in deteriorating US-Saudi relations
https://thehill.com/policy/international/411235-five-things-to-watch-for-in-deteriorating-us-saudi-relations

What's certain is that the Saudis have him, whether alive or dead. Where is he? Either in the consulate or in the CG's home 200 m away from the consulate to which tinted cars, including a van, departed from the consulate 2 hours after his arrival. Upon arrival at the CG's home, the van went into the underground garage--there is CCTV footage of the entourage departing the consulate and arriving outside the CG's home.

15 Saudis from elite intelligence and security agencies arrived in Istanbul on the very same day AND departed on the same day, on TWO flights, fully confirmed, along with passenger manifestos and dozens of pics and videos of the agents. Who the fuck comes to a country for a few hours unless for some quick operation, especially intelligence agents? They even reserved hotel rooms for 2-3 days, but left on the same day. One of the 15 was allegedly the head of forensics in one of the Saudi government's departments, and he allegedly did the dismemberment.

Also allegedly, local Turkish staff at both places were given the day off.

So the Turks are allegedly saying they have video and audio proof of the murder...

Apparently they are hesitant to elaborate further, let alone release the evidence, because that would mean confessing to have spy devices inside foreign consulates, as well as revealing their spying methods.

But man, I really want the recordings to come out, because otherwise there is no proof. There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence, but no proof.

For those with no clue what's going on, and to visually see the facts I described above:

How Jamal Khashoggi disappeared – visual guide
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/12/how-jamal-khashoggi-disappeared-visual-guide

10/14/2018 3:04:18 AM

Cherokee
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Should be moving the doomsday clock even closer to midnight any day now.

10/14/2018 3:26:59 AM

0EPII1
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Dubious Apple Watch Link to Killing
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45857777

I read the fantastic claim yesterday and it sounded too good to be true.

10/14/2018 3:38:26 PM

0EPII1
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Lol

Quote :
""But in a strongly worded op-ed published later on Sunday, Turki Aldakhil, general manager of the Saudi-owned Al-Arabiya news channel, warned that if the US imposed sanctions on Riyadh "it will stab its own economy to death," cause oil prices to reach as high as $200 a barrel, lead Riyadh to permit a Russian military base in the city of Tabuk and drive the Middle East into the arms of Iran""


Saudis Vow to Retaliate in a Stronger Way to Sanctions
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/14/middleeast/khashoggi-turkey-saudi-intl/index.html

10/14/2018 4:49:13 PM

dtownral
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fuck 'em

10/14/2018 6:59:48 PM

ScubaSteve
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as top comment on reddit said "Do it."

I mean what's the difference of a few years early, we already knew we're going for a "market correction" based on all historical data.

[Edited on October 14, 2018 at 8:04 PM. Reason : could be a twofer if we get off saudi oil and republicans get pissed at trump enough to impeach 2019]

[Edited on October 14, 2018 at 8:05 PM. Reason : 2019]

10/14/2018 8:03:15 PM

Dentaldamn
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Everyone is trying to out asshole each other. Insane.

10/14/2018 9:31:42 PM

Cherokee
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Quote :
"fuck 'em"

10/14/2018 9:51:56 PM

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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/13/opinion/sunday/saudi-arabia-mbs-jamal-khashoggi.html

Quote :
"The reports about Jamal Khashoggi, the missing Saudi journalist and Washington Post contributor, whom I’ve known for more than 15 years, grow steadily more sickening.

Turkey claims to have audiotape of Saudi interrogators torturing Jamal and killing him in the Saudi Consulate. None of this is confirmed, and we still don’t know exactly what happened; we all pray that Jamal will still reappear. But increasingly it seems that the crown prince, better known as M.B.S., orchestrated the torture, assassination and dismemberment of an American-based journalist using diplomatic premises in a NATO country.

That is monstrous, and it’s compounded by the tepid response from Washington. President Trump is already rejecting the idea of responding to such a murder by cutting off weapons sales. Trump sounds as if he believes that the consequence of such an assassination should be a hiccup and then business as usual.

Frankly, it’s a disgrace that Trump administration officials and American business tycoons enabled and applauded M.B.S. as he imprisoned business executives, kidnapped Lebanon’s prime minister, rashly created a crisis with Qatar, and went to war in Yemen to create what the United Nations calls the world’s worst humanitarian crisis there. Some eight million Yemenis on the edge of starvation there don’t share this bizarre view that M.B.S. is a magnificent reformer.

Trump has expressed “great confidence” in M.B.S. and said that he and King Salman “know exactly what they are doing.” Jared Kushner wooed M.B.S. and built a close relationship with him — communicating privately without involving State Department experts — in ways that certainly assisted M.B.S. in his bid to consolidate power for himself.

The bipartisan cheers from Washington, Silicon Valley and Wall Street fed his recklessness. If he could be feted after kidnapping a Lebanese prime minister and slaughtering Yemeni children, why expect a fuss for murdering a mere journalist?

M.B.S. knows how to push Americans’ buttons, speaking about reform and playing us like a fiddle. His willingness to sound accepting of Israel may also be one reason Trump and so many Americans were willing to embrace M.B.S. even as he was out of control at home.

In the end, M.B.S. played Kushner, Trump and his other American acolytes for suckers. The White House boasted about $110 billion in arms sales, but nothing close to that came through. Saudi Arabia backed away from Trump’s Middle East peace deal. Financiers salivated over an initial public offering for Aramco, the state-owned oil company, but that keeps getting delayed.

The crackdown on corruption is an example of M.B.S.’s manipulation and hypocrisy. It sounded great, but M.B.S. himself has purchased a $300 million castle in France, and a $500 million yacht — and he didn’t buy them by scrimping on his government salary.

In fairness, he did allow women to drive. But he also imprisoned the women’s rights activists who had been campaigning for the right to drive. Saudi Arabia even orchestrated the detention abroad of a women’s rights activist, Loujain al-Hathloul, and her return in handcuffs. She turned 29 in a Saudi jail cell in July, and her marriage has ended. She, and not the prince who imprisons her, is the heroic reformer.

Just last month in London, unidentified Saudi men, one wearing an earpiece, attacked a Saudi dissident named Ghanem al-Dosari, who has mocked M.B.S. as “the tubby teddy bear.” As they punched Dosari, they cursed him for criticizing the Saudi royal family.

“M.B.S.’s message to Saudis is clear: I will shut you up no matter where you are and no matter what laws I have to break to do it,” Sarah Leah Whitson of Human Rights Watch told me.

The crown prince showed his sensitivity and unpredictability in August when Canada’s foreign ministry tweeted concern about the jailing of Saudi women’s rights activists. Saudi Arabia went nuts, canceling flights, telling 8,300 Saudi students to leave Canada, expelling the Canadian ambassador and withdrawing investments. All for a tweet.

Western companies should back out of M.B.S.’s Future Investment Initiative conference later this month. That includes you, Mastercard, McKinsey, Credit Suisse, Siemens, HSBC, BCG, EY, Bain and Deloitte, all listed on the conference website as partners of the event.

We need an international investigation, perhaps overseen by the United Nations, of what happened to Jamal. In the United States, we also must investigate whether Saudis bought influence with spending that benefited the Trump family, such as $270,000 spent as of early 2017 by a lobbying firm for Saudi Arabia at the Trump hotel in Washington. The Washington Post reported that Saudi bookings at Trump Chicago increased 169 percent from the first half of 2016 to the first half of this year, and that the general manager of a Trump hotel in New York told investors that revenues rose partly because of “a last-minute visit to New York by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia.”

If Saudi Arabia cannot show that Jamal is safe and sound, NATO countries should jointly expel Saudi ambassadors and suspend weapons sales. The United States should start an investigation under the Magnitsky Act and stand ready to impose sanctions on officials up to M.B.S.

America can also make clear to the Saudi royal family that it should find a new crown prince. A mad prince who murders a journalist, kidnaps a prime minister and starves millions of children should never be celebrated at state dinners, but instead belongs in a prison cell."

10/15/2018 11:55:59 AM

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Jesus, rjrumfel really out-rjrumfel'd himself ITT.

10/15/2018 12:14:25 PM

rjrumfel
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How so?

10/15/2018 1:15:08 PM

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Quote :
"would you be OK if the German consulate in NYC decided to lure and kill Sean Hannity because he spoke bad about Angela Merkel?"


Quote :
"For all I care, they could put out a hit on Hannity."


and your attempts to minimize the severity and significance of this event
Quote :
"Can someone give me the TL;DR version of why this is such a big deal?"

Quote :
" A Saudi citizen gets murdered by Saudis on sovereign Saudi land in Turkey....that about sum it up?"


Quote :
"Sooooo I'm certainly concerned about ^ if that is true"


Because you weren't before?

10/15/2018 2:04:27 PM

rjrumfel
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When all of this started I wasn't aware that Kushner may have had a hand in it.

10/15/2018 2:19:07 PM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
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????? Kushner is in big with the Saudis but no one actually thinks he had a literal hand in this as far as I know.

And he’s a Saudi citizen domiciled in the United States, though Trump has onviosuly gotten that talking point that because he isn’t a citizen here he doesn’t matter.

10/15/2018 2:25:58 PM

rjrumfel
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It has been suggested that he may have handed over information about the journalist.

10/15/2018 2:27:11 PM

Bullet
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I saw something over the weekend that Trump Jr. retweeted several tweets from some conservative commentator about how the journalist was a "terrorist sympathizer" because there were pictures of him with the mujahideen in the 90s (when we were funding them to fight russia).

Here it is: https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/13/politics/donald-trump-jr-jamal-khashoggi/index.html

10/15/2018 2:50:39 PM

A Tanzarian
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So it seems the Saudis are going to cop to accidentally murdering him.

/rumor has it

10/15/2018 7:23:54 PM

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Quote :
"Mike Pompeo Impressed By Realism Of Saudis’ Halloween Decorations"


https://politics.theonion.com/mike-pompeo-impressed-by-realism-of-saudis-halloween-d-1829793721

10/16/2018 5:52:49 PM

moron
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Trump going to bat for MBS— saying he believes the Saudis

10/16/2018 7:01:02 PM

eyewall41
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Trump and the State Department are aiding in covering up a murder.

10/17/2018 9:51:48 AM

0EPII1
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1052268013876064256

Quote :
"Just spoke with the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia who totally denied any knowledge of what took place in their Turkish Consulate. He was with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo...

...during the call, and told me that he has already started, and will rapidly expand, a full and complete investigation into this matter. Answers will be forthcoming shortly."


At least ~10,000 replies have hammered him... I bet there are some supporting him, though.

10/17/2018 11:57:11 AM

dtownral
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lol, "some"

10/17/2018 12:03:42 PM

rjrumfel
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So the latest news that I've read on this is that a state medical examiner/pathologist was one of the 15 in the team. He performs autopsies for the state and has invented some "7 minute autopsy" for quickly going through cases of people that have died on the pilgrimage. Apparently this guy was the one carrying the bone saw.

But no, the Saudis aren't involved.

10/17/2018 12:20:47 PM

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Q&A with Pompeo after his meetings with Saudi officials:
Q: Did they say if Khashoggi is alive or dead?
Pompeo: “I don’t want to talk about any of the facts; they didn’t want to, either" via pool
Q: Did you tell the Saudis of repercussions if they are found responsible for harming Khashoggi?
Pompeo: “We talked about the importance of completing the investigation.”
Q: What if it finds the Saudis were involved?
Pompeo: “We talked about the importance of the investigation."
Pompeo: "They promised accountability for each of those persons that they determined as a result of their investigation deserves accountability.”
Q: Even if it’s a member of the royal family?
Pompeo: “They made no exceptions to whom they would hold accountable."

10/17/2018 12:39:11 PM

0EPII1
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Quote :
"Pompeo: “They made no exceptions to whom they would hold accountable.""


And I am from the moon

Saudis will come out with the "plausible deniability" rogue agents story, Trump of course will back already backs them... and the world will go on.

10/18/2018 3:10:52 AM

beatsunc
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Quote :
"Saudi Arabia has been doing grimey things for a while (pretty much every country has for that matter-- including the USA)."


moron summed it up. everyone is awful when hundred billion dollar deals are on the line. weapons, oil, whatever

we should end the military industrial complex. the world has way too many weapons already. the US spending 700 billion a year when we have more weapons than we need already is fucking insane

10/18/2018 5:59:34 AM

dtownral
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beatsunc slowly becoming a socialist sissy

10/18/2018 8:16:44 AM

beatsunc
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LoL. I'm saying let tax payers keep the $700B not redistribute it vote buying Ponzi schemes like SS

10/18/2018 9:12:00 AM

Dentaldamn
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How many jobs do you think exist bc of that 700 billion?

10/18/2018 9:25:19 AM

afripino
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So....why are we friends with SA after 9/11, again? surely it's not as simple as oil and money, right?

10/18/2018 9:26:02 AM

dtownral
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^^^being okay with letting the terrorists win by stopping our insane defense spending is an important first step

Quote :
"surely it's not as simple as oil and money, right?"

sprinkle in a touch of cold war with iran and yes it is that simple

[Edited on October 18, 2018 at 9:28 AM. Reason : .]

10/18/2018 9:26:23 AM

beatsunc
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Quote :
"How many jobs do you think exist bc of that 700 billion?"


a lot

however if the money was never stolen and stayed in the private sector it would also create a lot of jobs with more investments being made

10/19/2018 7:05:37 AM

Dentaldamn
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The money is still mostly in the private sector. Lockeed Martin receives upward of $200 millio in government contracts. God knows how much money Erik Prince receives.

The current administration or really any republican led government would never let this happen.

10/19/2018 7:46:28 AM

rjrumfel
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I'm surprised that Lockheed Martin only gets 200 mil. Some of that very well could be IT contracts though, because Lockheed does do a good bit of IT for the government. I know a previous company I worked with continuously bid against them for a particular sector.

10/19/2018 8:42:50 AM

Dentaldamn
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Apparently that was ONE contract. The number is higher.

https://spacenews.com/air-force-to-award-7-2-billion-contract-to-lockheed-martin-for-22-gps-satellites/

10/19/2018 9:07:12 AM

dtownral
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Quote :
"however if the money was never stolen and stayed in the private sector it would also create a lot of jobs with more investments being made"


military-industrial complex

10/19/2018 9:17:19 AM

dtownral
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god said don't be mean to the house of saud

https://politicalwire.com/2018/10/19/pat-robertson-says-punishing-saudis-not-worth-the-risk/
Quote :
"Pat Robertson Says Punishing Saudis Not Worth the Risk
October 19, 2018 at 9:37 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 22 Comments

Evangelical leader Pat Robertson told viewers of the 700 Club to “cool down the tempers of those who are screaming blood for the Saudis” and not risk a $100 billion arms deal with the United States over the apparent death of Saudi dissident and journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

Said Robertson: “These people are key allies. I don’t think on this issue we need pull sanctions and get tough. I just think it’s a mistake.”"

10/19/2018 10:01:00 AM

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