http://news.yahoo.com/boy-fake-gun-dies-shot-ohio-officer-170034176.html

Quote :

"CLEVELAND (AP) — A 12-year-old boy shot by police after grabbing what turned out to be a replica gun died from his wounds Sunday, a day after officers responded to a 911 call about someone waving a "probably fake" gun at a playground. Deputy Chief Ed Tomba said one officer fired twice after the boy pulled the fake weapon — which was lacking the orange safety indicator usually found on the muzzle — from his waistband but had not pointed it at police. The boy did not make any verbal threats but grabbed the replica handgun after being told to raise his hands, Tomba said. "That's when the officer fired," he said. The Cuyahoga County medical examiner identified the boy as Tamir Rice. An attorney for his family, Timothy Kucharski, said the boy went to the park with friends Saturday afternoon, but he did not know the details of what led to the shooting. "I don't want to make a rush to judgment," he said. The police department is investigating the shooting and both officers involved have been placed on administrative leave, which is standard procedure. The county prosecutor's office also is investigating. Kucharski said he wants to talk to witnesses himself and get more facts. "We're ultimately going to find out what happened," Kucharski said. Police said the weapon was an "airsoft" type replica that resembled a semi-automatic handgun. The orange safety indicator had been removed, police said. A man who called 911 told dispatchers the boy was on a swing set and pointing a pistol that was "probably fake" and scaring everyone. The caller said the boy was pulling the gun in and out of his pants. "I don't know if it's real or not," the caller said. Jeff Follmer, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, said the officers were not told the caller thought the gun might be fake. The officer called to the playground outside a city recreation center saw the pistol sitting on a table or bench, and watched the boy grab it and put it in his waistband, Follmer said. Cleveland police have been under increased scrutiny during the last few years. The U.S. Justice Department has been conducting an investigation of their pursuit and use of force practices. Federal officials said in March 2013 that their investigation would go beyond a high-profile car chase that ended with officers firing 137 shots and two deaths. Last week, it was announced that relatives of the two people killed in the 2012 chase will split a $3 million settlement from the city of Cleveland. The families filed a lawsuit after 43-year-old Timothy Russell and 30-year-old Malissa Williams were killed by police after a 20-mile pursuit that involved 62 police cruisers and more than 100 officers. Six police officers involved in the chase were indicted by a Cuyahoga County grand jury. The department changed its pursuit policy after the chase, limiting when and how long patrol cars can chase suspects."

11/23/2014 7:01:49 PM

good, one less trayvon in the world

11/23/2014 7:04:38 PM

Wonder if the city is gonna riot over an innocent 6th grader getting shot like they did when a thug got shot

11/23/2014 7:12:55 PM

poor kid. made a bad call. cost him his life. But the world keeps spinning.

11/23/2014 7:33:43 PM

why would he remove the orange thing?

11/23/2014 7:44:59 PM

why would he reach for it when the cops are around?

had it coming.

11/23/2014 7:53:38 PM

I dunno man... I'm willing to file this under "stupid shit that 12 year olds do"

And to be honest, at 12, I don't really think kids are that well connected with actions that have a consequence of death. I'm sure the kid just thought he was playing around, like 12 year olds do.
Hell, me and some of my friends ran around with BB guns at 12. And they didn't have the orange caps on them. I guess I should be happy no one rolled up on us and shot us to death, assuming we were a gang or something.


The whole thing is a damn shame

11/23/2014 8:14:58 PM

Sounds like a stupid thing for the kid to do, but a reasonable reaction by the cop. It's a shitty situation that at least upon first blush seems like not a lot that the officer could have done differently.

I hate the cops in general but it sounds like this one is on the kid for being stupid.

11/23/2014 8:19:49 PM

Is it illegal to have an airsoft gun? If not, seems like they should be. This is the second case recently of an incompetent officer killing an innocent person for it.

11/23/2014 8:34:09 PM

this is an instance where the cop should have shot to injure, not to kill

11/23/2014 8:38:41 PM

don't cops have tasers?

11/23/2014 8:39:26 PM

^^^^^
I like how in an encounter with a 12 year old kid and supposedly highly trained officer, people's instincts here are to hold the kid to the higher standard of action and responsibility.

Reminds me of this study:
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/black-boys-older.aspx

[Edited on November 23, 2014 at 8:42 PM. Reason : ]

11/23/2014 8:41:41 PM

More chitterlings for the other little father less niggers in this family for Thanksgiving

11/23/2014 8:41:48 PM

It would definitely help to know what the gun looked like and a few other details, but yeah, when the police tell you to put your hands up you shouldn't reach for what looks like a weapon.

11/23/2014 8:53:11 PM

So, 12 year olds don't have the mindset of:
-Adults who have seen, read, and heard a lot of shit in their lifetimes about the scumbags of society
-police officers who interact with the scumbags of society on a daily basis


The have the mindset of a child. Because they are children. They aren't thinking "wow, this cop probably thinks I'm some criminal trying to shoot him with a 9mm. I probably shouldn't make any sudden movements". This child is probably thinking "lol, this fake gun is pretty neat. I probably look really cool with it. Everyone knows it's just a BB gun tho....cause I'm 12....and what would a 12 year old be doing with a real gun, lolol"


I think it is ridiculous to look through the eyes of a 12 year old with your adult mindset

11/23/2014 9:03:26 PM

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_police_officer_shoot_6.html

Pic of gun in this article

11/23/2014 9:18:14 PM

It's hard to say but I remember playing with an air pistol when I was I 5th or 6th grade (an older neighbor kid had it), I could see my instinct being to try and hold the Gun up or put the Gun down, trying to explain it wasn't real. It wouldn't have been just to freeze what I was doing.

Considering they are saying the kid never pointed the gun at the cop, and the cop was watching the kid for a bit before this, I have to wonder what was going through his mind.

The only type of extenuating circumstance I can imagine is if the cop saw some older kids who had criminal records drop the Gun off, or something along those lines. Otherwise, sounds like criminally incompetent behavior to me.

11/23/2014 9:18:36 PM

Officer should have let him point and shoot first to make it fair.

11/23/2014 9:22:19 PM

^^I'm sorry that you were a retard when you were 12.

When I was 12 I would have put my hands up when the cop told me to put my hands up, especially if he already had his gun out. I probably would have been scared as fuck.

Sounds like this kid made a lot of really poor decisions, it's sad that he's dead, but this doesn't sound like criminal behavior from the cop.

This is a lot different than the guy who got gunned down in the wal mart, that was criminal behavior by the cops.

Again, just another incident in support of body cameras for cops and dash cameras in their cars.

11/23/2014 9:30:57 PM

Looked close enough to a 1911 where it's not obviously not a real gun if you saw him pull it out

11/23/2014 9:40:29 PM

^^

Lol it's obviously the cop that screwed up here. He might have a good excuse for screwing up, and these excuses might be good enough to keep him out of jail, but he's obviously the one in the wrong.

You people are ridiculous...

11/23/2014 9:42:51 PM

moron, what would you think if a kid pulled out that ^^ gun when you approached him

you'd probably shit your skinny jeans

11/23/2014 9:44:21 PM

Hell, I'm not saying the cop handled this in the best possible manner, but his reaction is reasonable given the totality of the circumstances.

It sucks that this happened, but it's not like this cop just rolled up and shot the kid. They got a 911 call about someone brandishing a gun at a park. They get there, see someone sitting on a bench with what appears to be a gun next to them. The kid picks up the gun, tucks it into his waistband, and then when the cop gets out of the vehicle and approaches the kid reaches for the gun.

I'm not going to say for certain that this was a "good shoot" until I know more and the witness statements are released, but based on the initial information it sounds like it's pretty far from being manslaughter let alone homicide.

[Edited on November 23, 2014 at 9:56 PM. Reason : sdfsdf]

11/23/2014 9:54:52 PM

^^ are you suggesting cops are justified In shooting anyone carrying a gun In the open?

11/23/2014 10:07:06 PM

if an 18 year old college student with cigars is a threat

and a 15 year old with skittles is a threat

then surely a 12 year old with a bb gun is a threat

we could also assume a 6 year old with a pocket knife is a threat

as is a 4 year old with a crossbow.

11/23/2014 10:14:33 PM

^^Are you that dense to throw out that pathetic strawman?

11/23/2014 10:16:50 PM

Legal open carry is a contentious issue. I support open carry 100% but there's a big difference between open carry and brandishing a weapon or going armed to the terror of the public. I think you'll find that just about anyone who open carries understands that there is potential for confrontation from law enforcement and are incredibly careful about their actions when law enforcement stops them. It's a large part of the reason people concealed carry. I for one would never open carry.

There's a big difference between walking around with a holstered glock on your hip and walking around with that same glock in your hand.

It sounds like, based off of the 911 call, that the kid was pointing this gun at people. You don't do that, not even with a BB gun.

11/23/2014 10:20:58 PM

say what you want about the kid's decisions but the worst decision was not wearing the black skin on the day he decided to go out to play with a gun. if he wore white skin, even with a real gun, the police would have shown maximum restraint and done whatever necessary to avoid shooting a kid. Instead, the police had to neutralize this gangster immediately.

11/23/2014 10:30:05 PM

Like all the white school shooters that the cops talk down, and totally don't kill

11/23/2014 10:31:59 PM

Quote :

"as is a 4 year old with a crossbow"

SHOOT ON SIGHT.

11/23/2014 10:32:21 PM

Quote :

"t's not like this cop just rolled up and shot the kid. They got a 911 call about someone brandishing a probably fake Gun per the 911 caller gun at a park. They get there, see a 12 year old child someone sitting on a bench at a playground, likely behaving like a child normally does with what appears to be a gun next to them. The kid picks up the gun, tucks it into his waistband, and then when the cop gets out of the vehicle and approaches the kid reaches for the gun."

This is the most charitable recount of this event you could make at this point, and the obvious failure of the dispatcher to mention the caller thought the Gun was fake could have changed things. Let alone the officer using better judgement based on the way other people in the park were treating the kid.

I understand cops save more lives than they take, and someone possibly having a real weapon is dangerous, but we have to expect better than a dispatcher failing to mention key information, and a cop going In guns blazing at a 12 year old at a playground. Saving ten lives doesn't give an organization the right to kill an innocent 12 year old with impunity.

That's the core of the issue here... It's not that a cop made a mistake, it's that there's usually no real accountability, and most people defend the killing of the kid, while other people mix in comments like cheesylabias In there.

Giuliani just blamed the entire black community In New York on 2 people getting killed by the cops there, you have the police in Ferguson's entirely botched on going reaction and communication in that whole incident, you had the case in Utah where the cops shot the guy In wall Mart and were absolutely in the wrong and were exonerated, and now you have a dead 12 year old, and you people just want to shrug your soldiers, say "oops", and then wonder why people are outraged.

Mistakes happen, people get this, but mistakes still require accountability. And when mistakes seem to happen more often for 1 community, it's reasonable for people to believe there is a deeper problem. The correct response is open, clear, non-politicized communication. There's nothing more maddening in a democracy than feeling disenfranchised, and black communities are feeling very disenfranchised now.

11/23/2014 10:32:36 PM

There are kids younger than 12 that carry real guns

11/23/2014 10:34:25 PM

^^^^I've already read somewhere that the cop who shot him was black. Now, I'm sure that just makes him a self loathing Uncle Tom, but you know, whatever.

[Edited on November 23, 2014 at 10:34 PM. Reason : sfsd]

11/23/2014 10:34:27 PM

Quote :

"It sounds like, based off of the 911 call, that the kid was pointing this gun at people. You don't do that, not even with a BB gun. "

Yeah you don't, which is why the 911 caller seemed to try to make a point of saying the gun probably wasn't real.

The caller probably just wanted the cops to come up and say "hey kid stop pointing that gun at people, it doesn't matter if it's real or not" and instead they shot him.

11/23/2014 10:36:49 PM

I blame the caller. What did they think would happen?

11/23/2014 10:40:02 PM

Uncle Tom died to protect another black youth from his white masters. It's kind of disgraceful to refer to a black cop shooting other blacks as an Uncle Tom.

11/23/2014 10:41:36 PM

My 11 year old son knows to do exactly what a police officer says. Now if it was a 7 year old like my youngest, you might be correct as he is much more thinking like a little kid. Sucks that it happened, but regardless of what color you are, when a police officer orders you to do something, listen to them. They are armed with real guns and will fucking kill you.

11/23/2014 10:42:45 PM

I hope that guy learned a valuable lesson. Don't fucking call the cops.

Look, I'm all for police accountability. I want most of them disarmed, I want them to be forced to wear video devices, and I want a fuckload fewer of them. I also want them held personally liable for their actions instead of taxpayers spending millions of dollars in payments and settlements over police misconduct and abuse.

However, this actually sounds like a perfect storm situation. I'm not super familiar with how police dispatch works, but I doubt things like, "don't worry, it's probably not a real gun" are ever included when they get a 911 call in reporting someone pointing a gun at kids in a park and an officer is dispatched.

There's a lot of stuff that needs to be clarified before an accurate picture of what happened is possible, but initial reports look like the cop made what is ultimately a completely rational mistake. Maybe he should be shitcanned or never allowed back out on the street or allowed to carry a weapon in an official capacity, but it hardly sounds like he's a murderer.

11/23/2014 10:44:14 PM

Quote :

"Like all the white school shooters that the cops talk down, and totally don't kills"

proves my point. white kids have to actually shoot people before police shoot them.

11/23/2014 10:46:11 PM

11/23/2014 10:47:22 PM

The white shooters just hide their guns, instead of reaching for them and pulling them out of their waistbands when the cops tell them to put their hands up

11/23/2014 10:48:21 PM

I'd say that it's very possible that the kid was going to toss his fake gun to the ground. The article doesn't say one way or the other, but everyone just assumes the kid was going to immediately point a fake gun at a real cop.

11/23/2014 10:57:19 PM

Why exactly would you give this to your 12 year old?

11/23/2014 11:04:28 PM

When we all were kids, you used to be able to walk into Walmart and buy toy guns that looked just like real guns-- there was no requirement that they have orange tips or anything.

Now, I don't think you can even buy a black or brown toy gun, and now we all act like this is a high crime for someone to play with (when it was commonplace in the past).

We're witnessing society crumbling... first the law stated that no one could buy toy guns that looked remotely real, then it's that you couldn't have one of those guns in public, now 20 years later, it's justified to kill a kid for doing what was common place when we were all growing up.

I would think conservatives would be outraged and government creep in this case, and how society has become so pussyfooted and cowardly over the years.

(although an air pistol is little more dangerous than a typical toy).

[Edited on November 23, 2014 at 11:09 PM. Reason : ]

11/23/2014 11:04:46 PM

Bullet Tooth Tony never would have shot the kid. He would have just calmly finished his stout, noticed that the kid's gun said "replica," and then called the kid out for being a mincy little faggot while wielding his Desert Eagle (.50)

11/23/2014 11:07:05 PM

I mean we had BB guns but did not take them to the park...

11/23/2014 11:09:50 PM

^ i'm talking about water guns here, and cap guns. Kids definitely played with these things at the park. I don't think walmart sells cap guns anymore at all.

No one wanted to be the kid with the crappy paper caps either, it was all about the plastic caps.

I had one of these:


[Edited on November 23, 2014 at 11:13 PM. Reason : ]

11/23/2014 11:10:27 PM

It's still pretty fucking sad knowing that you can't call the cops without the growing possibility that they will kill somebody.


This story, like most others like it, says more about the rise of the soldier-cop and the decline of neighborhood policing. Police no longer view the public as citizens, but rather as threats that need to be neutralized. When the cops value their own safety over the safety of the public, the line between law enforcement and occupation gets pretty blurry.



We should replace all cops guns with those t-shirt toss cannons they use at basketball games. Who's gonna commit a crime when they could just get an extra large t-shirt sponsored by Jiffy Lube on it? Fucking nobody, that's who.


[Edited on November 23, 2014 at 11:24 PM. Reason : ]

11/23/2014 11:15:07 PM

I shot a kid. He was 13 years old. Oh, it was dark, I couldn't see him, he had a ray gun, looked real enough. You know when you're a rookie they can teach you everything about being a cop, except how to live with a mistake. Anyway, I just couldn't bring myself to draw my gun on anyone again.

11/24/2014 12:05:08 AM

Set em up ----------->

11/24/2014 12:11:32 AM