http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/09/president-unveils-college-plan-online/

the implications of this are interesting to me - just to start...

where do all of the new community college professors come from?

how do current (generally lower level state schools) cope with lowered attendance rates?

1/9/2015 9:02:22 AM

I had similar questions when I first heard this last night. my first thought was 'I bet 4 year universities are going to raise tuition to cope with fewer students enrolling for the first two years or they will expand requirements for incoming transfers.'



^ I guess a community college professor could be a doctoral student that already has their M.S.

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 9:08 AM. Reason : k]

1/9/2015 9:07:22 AM

Can I get credit for paying off my student loans?

1/9/2015 9:08:40 AM

you guys need to stop asking these questions and get out of the way of free community college

i mean, it's free. why would anyone be against something free? it won't cost anyone money. it's FREE!

1/9/2015 9:09:04 AM

I was thinking about how many of my low-income students start at two-years and often can't finish because of money/balancing jobs and studying. I think this would go a long way toward helping those kids, but I do wonder about the financing.

1/9/2015 9:12:01 AM

Go for it, and allow me and anyone else with student loans to refinance them to 0% interest since we are going to handout educations like candy.

Or since its free, lets just erase all student loan debt.

Also are these people that are getting the handout actually going to have jobs after they graduate?

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 9:17 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2015 9:17:06 AM

do they even want a job after they graduate?

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 9:20 AM. Reason : who cares? it's FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

1/9/2015 9:19:40 AM

Education should be limited by ability/intelligence, not by an ability to make payments. Otherwise I feel like we are selling ourselves short.

1/9/2015 9:26:06 AM

Good luck getting that through the House and Senate Obummer

^Education should be free for all like it is in some other developed countries. Not a profit system like we have.



0% student loans or gtfo Obummer

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 9:30 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2015 9:26:58 AM

God help you if you think 0% loans for everyone will make college more affordable.

1/9/2015 9:34:11 AM

how could free loans not save us money? they're free!

1/9/2015 9:39:29 AM

No but if you are going to give it away for free, why should I or any other working American have to pay interest? Its free right.

Quote :

"The $41.3 billion profit for the 2013 fiscal year is down $3.6 billion from the previous year but it's a higher profit level than all but two companies in the world: Exxon Mobil cleared $44.9 billion in 2012, and Apple cleared $41.7 billion."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/25/federal-student-loan-profit/3696009/

^^How does free college help us? Are we not going to pay professors??? Someone will be paying for this liberal nonsense.

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 9:40 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2015 9:40:03 AM

Quote :

"0% student loans or gtfo Obummer "

0% student loans? you want to encourage even more borrowing? you see the huge increase in tuition costs and think the slope needs to be even steeper?

we need to replace and increase public funding for schools, re-evaluate what services schools should be offering, and lending and rates should be more risk based (although there needs to more pathways/circumstances for loan forgiveness and need-based aid should be increased)

Quote :

"I was thinking about how many of my low-income students start at two-years and often can't finish because of money/balancing jobs and studying. I think this would go a long way toward helping those kids, but I do wonder about the financing."

i don't think it will do much. i assume this proposal will only cover tuition; tuition at community colleges is already incredible cheap, other expenses for the student are more of a burden. If money and balancing jobs keeps kids from finishing, I don't feel like not having to pay the tiny amount for community college tuition is going to make much difference. Anyone in that bracket, where the small tuition cost for community college is a burden, is already going to qualify for federal need-based grants and assistance.

(but this is all moot anyways. doing this would require actions not only from a Republican congress, but from states, so no chance in hell this happens)

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 9:49 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2015 9:41:42 AM

Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't fund it the way they are funding college in Oregon now. Basically, you don't pay now, and they take a certain percent in taxes/fees once you're actually making money.

Everyone needs a skill. I'm fine with this as long as we aren't paying primarily for stuff not leading to direct employability.

1/9/2015 9:42:19 AM

I think the idea is to send the message that we have jobs that can be filled with community college grads with technical skills. Maybe some students will hear it and opt for that path rather than the 4 year humanities degree at a private school followed by a future of an unrelated lower paying job and tons of student loan debt.

I seriously doubt Obama believes that this will pass a Republican controlled congress.

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 9:45 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2015 9:45:16 AM

^^^Risk based? How would that work?

Unless you are the victim of identity theft you have the same credit report as every other person at 18. So what would make one person less risky than the next?

Black & Poor super risky

White & Middle Class no risk

See how that will go.

And you're right, 0% loans won't help. Our education system is fucked up. Relying on parents to pay for their kids college is stupid, and a system obviously architected by the rich/upper middle class.



[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 9:50 AM. Reason : d]

1/9/2015 9:46:13 AM

based on job placement rates and salary metrics for schools and program of study

for example you shouldn't loan someone $40k if they are going to attend a program that has a 10% job placement rate and average starting salary under $20k and should offer lower rates to someone borrowing to attend a program that has a 90%+ job placement rate and average salaries over $60k. You could also base it on grades/performance, although I would want to see proposals for how to prevent the already bad grade inflation if you do this.

really though the goal should be to replace state and federal funding to reduce the tuition burden significantly, this could be funding by reducing or ending public funding and loans to for-profit and private universities.

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 9:55 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2015 9:53:18 AM

Obummer has created an underclass of people simply waiting around for him to make his next free bonanza give-away whether its cash for clunkers, extension of unemployment benefits, free obamaphones or free community college

It's time for people to stop waiting on the government and just do it for yourself or you will always be waiting for free handouts.

Where is our national pride? Since when was the government the gigantic titty of Christmas gifts feeding us?

1/9/2015 9:54:34 AM

trying too hard

1/9/2015 9:56:07 AM

open school loans up to the market like lendingclub and i bet major is an extremely large factor is who gets funded

1/9/2015 9:57:28 AM

^^^ You're just mad that the black baby pushed you off the teet.


I like the idea of no State/Federal funds for private/for profit universities.

If you start loaning money to people based on what their projected earnings are, what happens when they change majors, land a shitty job in their field etc? I don't think its the governments place to tell someone what major they need to select. "Pick STEM for 100k loan, pick humanities for 10k loans etc"

We could stop with the notion that college is for everyone. Everyone isn't smart, everyone doesn't care about grades, mathematics etc I know we all know some people that are stupid, and proud of it.

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 10:04 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2015 10:02:15 AM

BLOATED STATE LARGESSE =

1/9/2015 10:02:53 AM

Quote :

"Everyone needs a skill. I'm fine with this as long as we aren't paying primarily for stuff not leading to direct employability."

if they're not the university type, then they should be getting that skill in high school

1/9/2015 10:11:21 AM

Quote :

"where do all of the new community college professors come from? how do current (generally lower level state schools) cope with lowered attendance rates?"

Class sizes would probably just increase, thus causing more burnout among current professors, thus causing a decrease in standards. That is anecdotal, I am sure it's far more complex than that.

I think lower level state schools would just increase their admittance (ie, lower their standards possibly?)

I haven't had enough time to think about this. My initial reaction is to be all for it. Just not sure how it actually works.

Quote :

"Everyone needs a skill. I'm fine with this as long as we aren't paying primarily for stuff not leading to direct employability."

You clearly have no idea how innovation and inventiveness work in this world. You need a cross section of most, if not all main subject areas. More importantly, it's someone in one major looking at a problem in another major that ends up creating a new solution never thought of before. Look at a lot of the technologies derived from NASA equipment that were created by people who had nothing to do with the space industry.

You can't just have 300 million engineers and no artists. You can't have 300 million scientists and no mathematicians. You can't have 300 million mathematicians and no historians....

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 10:15 AM. Reason : a]

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 10:16 AM. Reason : a]

1/9/2015 10:13:01 AM

Cool Cherokee

so you're suggesting we all become communist

Quote :

"You can't just have 300 million engineers and no artists. You can't have 300 million scientists and no mathematicians"

like in communist China where there is a single entrance exam that determines your state funded major for life

Quote :

"National Higher Education Entrance Examination National examinations to select students for higher education (and positions of leadership) were an important part of China's culture, and, traditionally, entrance to a higher education institution is considered prestigious. Although the examination system for admission to colleges and universities has undergone many changes since the Cultural Revolution, it remains the basis for recruiting academically able students..."

Yeah that's right folks the SAT equivalent in China is called the Gakao and it determines your major and what you will study.

Gakao takes into consideration economic needs. If Papa Govt tells you be engineer, you better be a fucking engineer or GTFO.

1/9/2015 10:22:10 AM

Quote :

"so you're suggesting we all become communist"

What are you talking about? My argument was the exact opposite. Someone stated that they were cool funding community college as long as those students receiving funding took majors (loose interpretation of what was stated) that led directly to employment.

I'm saying you can't do that otherwise you'll just end up with people majoring in finance and computer science, to the detriment of society.

1/9/2015 10:24:12 AM

yeah, and you can't have any of those without electricians, carpenters, painters, instrumentation technicians, mechanics, concrete installers, welders, etc. those jobs aren't appealing to high school kids, but we need to change that.

i'm almost 5 years out of engineering school and i would be making a lot more money if i'd learned something like electronics or welding. and i would've been able to start making that money a couple years sooner.

1/9/2015 10:24:52 AM

They train their Olympic athletes since age 16 and their mathematicians and engineers since they are 2 years old, and we wonder why they are kicking our asses economically?

You choose your destiny (to address all of these issues ITT regarding appropriate job placement) the moment you are ready to go to college...and they have the largest economy on the planet.

1/9/2015 10:25:11 AM

lmao you think China is kicking our ass economically? Go read some geopolitical books my friend. Read some history too.

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 10:26 AM. Reason : a]

1/9/2015 10:26:02 AM

Go look at Ali Baba IPO my friend.

I am saying on one end of the spectrum would be a heavy-handed approach to job placement where it is fully state controlled so as to control quotas. And that shows gains in the economy.

On the other end would be this open-ended Christmas-Titty approach where there is free bailout money for kids to go fuck around in college for 7 years and be the next Tommy Boy except now Daddy Messiah wants to foot the bill for the first 2 years.

1/9/2015 10:28:07 AM

Kids fuck around in college because they are asked to decide their life mission before they can even drink. A better approach would be to require service for a few years BEFORE going to college so you can have some time to mature, work in the real world and figure out how you spend your time OFF from work. The time OFF is more indicative of what you'd want to do with yourself.

And did you really throw an IPO as evidence that their economy is beasting ours? Really? Of all the economic data out there you single out their version of Amazon.com? Do you even know how IPOs work or how they are priced?

http://online.barrons.com/articles/SB52133021052493823286804580163941038934092

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 10:34 AM. Reason : a]

1/9/2015 10:34:16 AM

Did you really just suggest mandatory military service?

1/9/2015 10:34:59 AM

i like this argument - i think the BABA IPO is a clear sign that china is killing us economically

1/9/2015 10:36:18 AM

I said service, not military service. There are a LARGE number of ways to serve without having to fight in countries we don't belong in.



[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 10:40 AM. Reason : a]

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 10:40 AM. Reason : a]

1/9/2015 10:36:19 AM

Quote :

"The total debt to China is only $1.3 trillion."

China is fucking us in the ass economically.

1/9/2015 10:42:48 AM

this is just more bullshit to make certain people feel good

like the people who voted for him the first time around because he mentioned student loan forgiveness

yeah that worked out real well for them

1/9/2015 10:44:16 AM

National debt doesn't mean damn thing. Name one country out there that could come and take the money or repossess "assets" by force if we stopped paying?

China? You're telling me they're going to move 2.1 million soldiers across 8,000 miles of ocean undetected with little to no navy without us destroying them in the process?

You don't pay your home and it gets taken from you. We don't repay the national debt and the world blinks.

On top of that, China is a powder keg waiting to ignite given the huge number of impoverished citizens they have. The growth in GDP will translate into a push towards a more democratic society which will inevitably turn into a call for state support which will immediately hurt their growth and GDP. China is its own problem.

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 10:50 AM. Reason : a]

1/9/2015 10:44:24 AM

[Brian]
What do you do with a B.A. in English?
What is my life going to be?
4 years of college,
And plenty of knowledge,
Have earned me this useless degree!
I can’t pay the bills yet,
‘Cause I have no skills yet,
The world is a big scary place!
But somehow I can’t shake,
The feeling I might make,
A difference to the human race!

[Kate]
Morning Brian!

[Brian]
Hi, Kate Monster

[Kate]
How’s life?

[Brian]
Disappointing

[Kate]
What’s the matter?

[Brian]
The catering company laid me off

[Kate]
Oh, I’m sorry

1/9/2015 10:51:06 AM

Quote :

"figure out how you spend your time OFF from work. The time OFF is more indicative of what you'd want to do with yoursel"

gonna have a bunch of professional drunk video game players

1/9/2015 10:53:02 AM

Drunk, Mass murdering, car racing, dog walking professional right here.

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 10:54 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2015 10:54:10 AM

or maybe someone who was going to major in business realizes he'd rather be coding video games and now has the discipline to stick through 4 years of engineering.

ultimately, my point is that deciding your life mission at 18 is just as ridiculous as getting married at 18 for most people.

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 10:55 AM. Reason : a]

1/9/2015 10:54:53 AM

Cherokee, I actually agree with you and was just messing around when I called you a communist.

1/9/2015 10:57:00 AM

haha i was so confused

1/9/2015 10:59:06 AM

There's a huge difference between playing a video game, and coding one. Playing a game is fun, coding a game is endless 60+hr work weeks.

My life mission isn't my job. My job provides me with money so I can go off and do what I enjoy. Do people really think working for xyz company is a life mission?

Honestly I tolerate my job because they pay me good money.

[Edited on January 9, 2015 at 11:00 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2015 10:59:51 AM

I think people would be happier working towards their life mission rather than tolerating their job. But I don't think that people for the most part know what should be their life mission at the age of 18.

1/9/2015 11:06:05 AM

I actually get paid to write, but the incidental skills, e.g., tech & using a computer, common sense, knowing how to interact with people, etc., have paid far more dividends than any formal training in language construction.

1/9/2015 11:10:22 AM

Seems to me like just another way to chip away at the middle class. If you provide free community college tuition, like it has been said before, some of your state university enrollments will drop. Universities will have to lower their standards and/or raise tuition. Either way it won't work out well for the middle class.

How would it affect the morale of community college professors? They are intelligent people who in large part love to teach over a love of research, and they accept that they will have some students who still believe they are in high school and still act the part. But if you remove even the relatively low pay-wall of community college tuition, Lord knows what kind of riff-raff might end up in the classrooms of Wake Tech. I feel like there might be an exodus of good community college professors, so in the end, what you'll end up with is just a several year addendum to your high school diploma.

1/9/2015 11:15:34 AM

Quote :

"just a several year addendum to your high school diploma. "

This.

1/9/2015 11:17:41 AM

Cherokee making some good points ITT

Also, nothing is free, and I doubt there is a substantial portion of the population at large that would take "free" community college seriously enough to make a difference in their lives.

Community college is cheap enough; why don't we instead say we'll pay for the remaining 2-3 years of university level education if you're a good enough student through your first 2 years of community college and you get accepted into a higher-level institution? Most of the really academically hard shit comes in the last couple of years anyway, so not having to work to pay for school during that period would actually be beneficial.

Paying for just anyone who wants to go to community college for 2 years would be a monumental waste of money. What's the failure/drop-out rate for community college?

1/9/2015 11:19:35 AM

Also, back in the day, I used to go to a pool hall in Cary that charged for a membership. This wasn't some elite pool players club or anything like that. The membership was $1, and you had to sign your name and give your license number (I think, been over 10 years). I thought that anything that costs $1 isn't exclusive or really even meaningful, so I asked the owner what it was for. He said it was to keep shitty people out of his bar, because shitty people aren't going to go through the effort of signing up for anything.

I think the same kind of thing applies here. Even paying the low costs of community college tuition ensures in some small amount that the people that are there actually want to be there, because they're paying for it.

1/9/2015 11:28:48 AM