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The Coz
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Quote :
"it'd be fkn sick if everyone in the world with a gun just shot themselves all at once"

That would seriously own the libs!

4/18/2023 5:58:24 AM

BubbleBobble
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also all people who use "liberal" as an attempt to be a slur

4/18/2023 9:02:04 AM

thegoodlife3
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https://apnews.com/article/fatal-shooting-wrong-driveway-new-york-dd45b17e3a806abf11d1aaf5b235fb13

Quote :
"NY woman driven to wrong address fatally shot by homeowner"


all these elderly people who have had their brain poisoned by right wing media have quick trigger fingers

[Edited on April 18, 2023 at 10:08 AM. Reason : .]

4/18/2023 10:07:44 AM

EMCE
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It's almost as if pushing a media narrative that the world is dangerous and everyone is out to get you, allowing prejudice attitudes to persist, and arming people to the teeth has negative consequences.


Hey, where are the Stand Your Ground numbnuts now? You all convinced yourselves that Trayvon Martin was a threat after George Zimmerman chased him down. What lengths are you all going to go to now to convince yourselves that Ralph Yarl was a threat and deserved to be shot?

4/18/2023 11:07:54 AM

emnsk
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^^he had no cell/internet service at his house and was living alone there for decades. I wouldn't count it out, but not every case of a shooting has maga behind it. it is a very big and wide country, and sometimes you just have a very sad and sick thing happen.

-

^George Zimmerman didn't invoke the stand your ground law in his trial
his attorney himself said that "the facts don't seem to support a 'stand your ground' defense"
it was a self defense case which generally has the same law/concept in every state and is more of a matter of your opinion on the judge/court

It is indeed important to recognize how stand your ground laws may embolden people to use guns more than they would've normally though. need a reliable justice system to enforce that or a more clear standard enforced over time
at the end of the day, no matter how you legislate something, it comes down to the culture among the people in how it goes

The guy who shot ralph yarl was charged (deserved it 100%) and yeah it is sad how many people will simply defend him on the basis of supporting guns. a sad result of polarization
I agree that the justice system is messed up and yeah, a lot of people are falling prey to that narrative you talked about.

4/18/2023 12:01:35 PM

EMCE
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Zimmerman's defense didn't use SYD at trial, true. But SYG was a part of the jury instructions.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/zimmerman1/Zimjuryinstructions.pdf


Note: regardless of what defense was used at trial or what the jury instructions were, my comments was towards the SYG numbnuts that certainly were using that law as a justification for Trayvon Martin being shot to death.

[Edited on April 18, 2023 at 12:17 PM. Reason : f]

4/18/2023 12:14:56 PM

rjrumfel
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I don't see how SYG applies to Yarl. I mean shit, can we not even knock on doors these days?

4/18/2023 12:31:34 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
" ^he had no cell/internet service at his house and was living alone there for decades. I wouldn't count it out, but not every case of a shooting has maga behind it. it is a very big and wide country, and sometimes you just have a very sad and sick thing happen."


right-wing brain poison outdates maga by decades

also not sure where you’re seeing he had no cell or internet service. everything I’ve read says there is little service in the area. you also don’t need internet or cell service to consume it.

[Edited on April 18, 2023 at 12:57 PM. Reason : .]

4/18/2023 12:33:37 PM

emnsk
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^^

This isn't in particular a response to you, but more of a general observation.

I wonder how much of our "these days" feelings are an actual truth or just due to the internet and things going viral more easily.

And is it a self-inflicting prophecy? With maybe the guy who shot the kid being due to him watching the news over time and thinking "a lot more crime these days" himself (obviously not justifying his actions, but explaining it in the context of his mind).
Like a spin off of the werther effect.

It very interestingly relates to and can explain school shootings and why they're becoming more common.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/27/stopping-mass-shooters-q-a-00035762
Quote :
"I don’t think most people realize that these are suicides, in addition to homicides. Mass shooters design these to be their final acts. When you realize this, it completely flips the idea that someone with a gun on the scene is going to deter this. If anything, that’s an incentive for these individuals. They are going in to be killed."

It is interesting, cause as a society we have an obligation to report on these killings so people know what's happening, but one wonders if they would even exist as much if the idea did not reach into the heads of more people.

[Edited on April 18, 2023 at 12:59 PM. Reason : --]

4/18/2023 12:57:45 PM

EMCE
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^^^ Because Lester is claiming in defense of shooting Yarl that he felt threatened. SYG laws are intentionally vague in their language, usually only requiring that one feel threatened, or believe they are trying to prevent physical confrontation in a place they have a right to be to justify using deadly force.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/04/18/stand-your-ground-missouri-ralph-yarl/
Paywall
Quote :
"

A White man in Kansas City is accused of shooting a Black teenager who rang his doorbell by mistake, renewing attention on Missouri’s self-defense laws after the man, Andrew Lester, 84, said he shot Ralph Yarl, 16, because he feared for his safety.

Lester has since been charged with two felonies and said he was “scared to death” when the teen showed up at his front door. Yarl, who has been described by a family friend as quiet and respectful, was trying to pick up his siblings from a friend’s house and went to the wrong address. The shooting, which the prosecutor acknowledged had a racial component, has sparked protests calling for strong action against Lester.

White Kansas City man, 84, charged in shooting of Black teen

Self-defense laws known as “stand your ground” statutes and “castle doctrine” — are part of many of states’ legal frameworks and have increasingly been part of the debate over gun violence. Here’s what you need to know.
What to know

“Stand your ground” laws say that when a person perceives a threat in a place where they have a right to be (i.e. public spaces), they are permitted to respond immediately with physical, even lethal force. The first stand-your-ground law passed in Florida in 2005. Before that, people in the state had a responsibility to attempt to retreat from a conflict before using deadly force, according to the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

Stand-your-ground laws “minimize criminal penalties and eliminate civil liabilities’ for those who claim self defense in deadly encounters,” researchers at the University of Missouri and Rutgers University wrote in a September 2022 academic paper. By removing the “duty to retreat” from an attacker in public spaces, the laws expand on the “castle doctrine,” which removes the obligation to retreat from an intruder in one’s home.

Conservative groups including the National Rifle Association have touted such statutes as an expansion of self-defense. But opponents of the laws say they increase violence and allow deadly force to become a first instinct, rather than a last resort. According to a 2022 study, stand-your-ground laws are associated with an 11 percent increase in monthly firearm homicide rates. The Brady Center has said such laws are “made more lethal by our nation’s history of racism.”

Lester, the homeowner, said that he shot Yarl because he believed he “was protecting himself from a physical confrontation” and that he heard Yarl pulling on the storm door, the criminal complaint says, setting up a potential defense that relies on Missouri’s self-defense laws. According to Yarl’s statement, he rang the doorbell and waited quietly for a few minutes before Lester opened the door and fired on him.
What does Missouri’s ‘castle doctrine’ say?

Missouri’s self-defense law states that a person may use physical, deadly force against another person if he or she “reasonably believes that such deadly force is necessary” to protect “against death, serious physical injury, or any forcible felony.”

This applies in a variety of settings, including a dwelling, residence or vehicle where the person is lawfully present; private property owned or leased by the person; and “any other location such person has the right to be,” such as public places.

The “castle doctrine” is the portion of the law that allows such action in one’s home, while stand-your-ground law allows immediate use of force in other locations. Missouri does not have explicit “stand your ground” language written into its law; some states, including Florida, Alabama and Georgia, do.

Because the events took place at Lester’s home, the castle doctrine is particularly relevant in this case, though lawyers told The Washington Post that ringing a doorbell is not a justifiable reason for using deadly force.

“You have to do more than just say, ‘I felt threatened’; you have to prove that something threatening was going on,” Daniel Webster, a professor at Johns Hopkins University’s Center for Gun Violence Prevention and Policy, said.
What states have stand-your-ground laws, and how have they been used?
Return to menu

At least 28 states and Puerto Rico have these laws, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

One such Florida law was said to play a role in the acquittal of George Zimmerman, who fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin while the teenager was walking back from 7-Eleven in 2012. While Zimmerman’s lawyers did not cite “stand your ground” in the defense, the jury that acquitted him received instructions about the law.

When Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) said he was working on pardoning Daniel Perry — who was convicted this month of killing Garrett Foster while Foster, who was lawfully carrying a rifle, was protesting at a Black Lives Matter rally in 2020 — Abbott noted: “Texas has one of the strongest ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws of self-defense.”"


[Edited on April 18, 2023 at 12:58 PM. Reason : h]

4/18/2023 12:57:55 PM

rjrumfel
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Of course he's going to say he felt threatened. He doesn't want to go to jail. At 84 that'll be it for him.

It'll be impossible for a jury to believe that he felt threatened, so I don't see this going well for him at all. Someone intent on breaking in isn't going to ring the fucking doorbell.

4/18/2023 4:15:14 PM

emnsk
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100%

let me drop the Supreme Court quote on door knocking for extra fun!

Quote :
"The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that there is an “implicit license” that “typically permits [a] visitor to approach [a] home by the front path, knock promptly, wait briefly to be received, and then (absent invitation to linger longer) leave.” Florida v. Jardines, 569 U.S. 1 (2013)."


ooh la la, 'implicit license'
sounds so sweet and sharp on the tongue

[Edited on April 18, 2023 at 4:21 PM. Reason : -]

4/18/2023 4:21:02 PM

rjrumfel
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I don't like the vague language there though..."promptly, typically"

4/18/2023 4:52:13 PM

emnsk
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"typically" because there are often local/state laws regarding solicitation and stuff like that

"promptly" because well you need to some extent rely on lower courts having a brain

either way you cant shoot the guy lol

4/18/2023 6:26:25 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
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Chinese man mistaken for hare dies after being shot

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-65308215

Quote :
"Four men have been arrested over the death of Wang Moujin, who drowned in a ditch after being shot in the head with an air gun.
. . .
Police from Xinzhou district said one of the men had opened fire after seeing movement in the grass beside the ditch, where Mr Wang was reported to have been fishing."

4/18/2023 8:12:30 PM

emnsk
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right after easter

china's crackdown on religion working well

4/18/2023 10:29:35 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
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The Easter Bunny is not safe in China!

4/18/2023 10:47:07 PM

emnsk
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they banned roger rabbit too
happy to eat them but not give them representation
meanwhile we have bugs bunny

judeo-christian values baby

4/18/2023 11:04:59 PM

thegoodlife3
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https://abc13.com/woodlands-elite-cheerleaders-shot-shooting-at-heb-in-elgin-texas-payton-washington-pedro-tello-rodriguez-jr-arrested/13150502/

Quote :
" ELGIN, Texas (KTRK) -- Two members of an elite competitive cheerleading team in Oak Ridge were shot Tuesday morning after one of the athletes reportedly mistakenly tried to get into the wrong car after practice."

4/19/2023 10:51:15 AM

emnsk
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Are these just being reported more due to the previous cases

Or did everyone suddenly decide to shoot people for no reason

4/19/2023 11:11:16 AM

rjrumfel
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I may be wrong because I'm hearing it second hand, but it sounds like the right is spinning it as Yarl tried to just open the door.

Every account that I've read about mentioned ringing the doorbell.

4/19/2023 1:53:32 PM

thegoodlife3
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I wonder why they’d be attempting to spin it that way?

4/19/2023 4:29:48 PM

0EPII1
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Quote :
"Or did everyone suddenly decide to shoot people for no reason"


It's suddenly en vogue now to shoot people you don't recognize who happen to be near your property.

If you ain't doin' it, you ain't 'Murrcan enough.

Go git you some, G.

4/20/2023 6:36:05 AM

Bullet
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Right-wing brain poison

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d9b45/ralph-yarl-shot-andrew-lester-foxnewsE

Quote :
"Ludwig said his grandfather’s “racist tendencies” have been reinforced by his media diet.

News
“He was fully into that and watched Fox News all day every day blaring in his living room and I think that stuff really kind of reinforces this negative view of minority groups,”

“He’s just a stock, American Christian male, older, that’s just how they are,” he continued. “The conspiracies and weird random racist things that they say.”

Ludwig said he pushed back on his grandfather’s racist ideas and conspiracies, including about election theft, infectious disease specialist Dr. Anthony Fauci, and “something about Black women getting abortions.” He said they’ve subsequently lost touch.

According to a probable cause document, Lester claimed he was “scared to death” by Yarl’s size and thought his home was being broken into, CNN reported. Yarl is five-foot-eight and 140 pounds, his family told the Washington Post. "

4/20/2023 1:53:16 PM

thegoodlife3
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wow

what an absolute shocker

4/20/2023 1:58:02 PM

EMCE
balls deep
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Hmmm

Monstrous black guy with gargantuan strength made me fear for my life. Sounds like the setup for something ...

4/20/2023 3:45:39 PM

emnsk
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what exactly happened?

did he shoot him through the door

did he see him through a peephole

or did he just open the door with a gun in his hand and shoot him

4/20/2023 3:56:10 PM

EMCE
balls deep
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Word on the street is Lester shot Yarl through a locked screen door.

4/20/2023 6:30:18 PM

emnsk
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that makes more sense

Good that the kid is doing well
I hope he can narrate how it exactly went from his perspective
I'd like to hear it

4/20/2023 7:39:45 PM

EMCE
balls deep
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Aparently, that's what they were waiting on before arresting Lester.... for Yarl to wake up/give his side of the story.

4/20/2023 8:59:11 PM

emnsk
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https://twitter.com/TopDogLaw/status/1648827712356892672

Good guy with a car?
I did a lot of these as a kid
a ton

I wish there was a way to categorize these kinds of incidents so we could see if they're actually increasing like all of it being viral lately, or just coming to light more?
or both

4/23/2023 12:59:45 AM

synapse
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If he gets out on bail is he allowed to purchase guns?

4/25/2023 3:37:11 PM

Bullet
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Jeez, the comments. I feel more and more that society is on the verge of a complete break-down.

4/25/2023 3:44:02 PM

emnsk
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^

I've been discussing this on and off with a friend of mine lately.

I think that a lot of damage is done under the guise of "it's a joke".
Hell, I do that a lot myself. But, over time, no matter what you call it, the mentality sears itself in. It becomes a habit.

A simple analogy to this is slang. Often times, I or someone I know have picked up some word that used to be used seriously, but now is mostly used in an ironic or sarcastic sense.
Like, let's say ''sick''.
You start off using it as a joke, but over time eventually you just start using it normally.
(I'm not saying that people started using sick as slang in this way, I'm talking about a personal experience among my friends/class that I saw where once the slang became outdated, people started using it in an ironic way)

The other aspect is that society, on/through the internet, is becoming devoid of empathy.
But that's another thing altogether.

Did you or anyone else see that thing with Anthony Bass?
https://abc7ny.com/united-popcorn-incident-anthony-bass-blue-jays-airlines-mess/13154384/

[Edited on April 25, 2023 at 3:57 PM. Reason : --]

4/25/2023 3:56:51 PM

thegoodlife3
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[quote] I think that a lot of damage is done under the guise of "it's a joke".
Hell, I do that a lot myself. But, over time, no matter what you call it, the mentality sears itself in. It becomes a habit.[quote]

this is one of the many bad things about the internet in general

people feel like they need to perform for an audience, no matter the size

it also can be a gateway into radicalization

4/25/2023 4:25:19 PM

thegoodlife3
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https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2023/04/25/79-year-old-man-charged-with-senselessly-murdering-his-neighbor-who-was-doing-yard-work-near-antioch/

it’s the guns

4/26/2023 12:23:31 PM

rjrumfel
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Not sure why you posted that here.

Looks like your standard "heated argument escalates to gunfire" article.

The fact that I reference this as "standard" is sad in and of itself.

4/26/2023 1:06:03 PM

thegoodlife3
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because this is a thread about gun violence?

4/26/2023 1:13:44 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"Not sure why you posted that here."


Quote :
"Bless your heart. You must be new here."

4/26/2023 1:20:55 PM

rwoody
Save TWW
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Did rjr literally just discover this thread? He asked a similar question last page!

[Edited on April 26, 2023 at 1:34 PM. Reason : ^oh yea lol good call back]

4/26/2023 1:33:56 PM

rjrumfel
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I didn't think it was used for just non-specific gun violence.

Ok then, carry on.

A nice one from my birthplace.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/20/us/neighbor-child-shooting-basketball-singletary/index.html

4/26/2023 1:37:27 PM

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This thread is 8 years old.

And you're the first person who has needed this helping hand - https://www.npr.org/2012/12/21/167824766/nra-only-thing-that-stops-a-bad-guy-with-a-gun-is-a-good-guy-with-a-gun

But I am nothing if not generous.

4/26/2023 1:56:24 PM

The Coz
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Quote :
"The other aspect is that society, on/through the internet, is becoming devoid of empathy."

It's true. I feel it. Or don't feel it?

4/26/2023 6:52:05 PM

emnsk
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^LOL

[Edited on April 26, 2023 at 9:36 PM. Reason : !]

4/26/2023 9:36:26 PM

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https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/5-dead-texas-shooting-suspect-armed-ar-15/story?id=98957271

4/29/2023 11:45:36 AM

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Quote :
""There's always shootings, there's always shooting," she said to KTRK. "There's always people calling the cops and there's nothing being done."

She said that neighbors would frequently shoot firearms on weekends and holidays and that the sound of gunshots overnight was normal.

"We were in bed and my kids -- I have two babies -- they got scared, and we're like, 'it's normal they're always shooting.'""


Quote :
"God Bless Texas"

4/29/2023 11:46:44 AM

The Coz
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We got some good guys with guns popping off in the neighborhood right now. But it's a rural area, so nothing too concerning typically.

4/29/2023 1:41:44 PM

The Coz
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What's with the media obsession with describing shootings as "execution style"? Dead is dead.

4/30/2023 11:21:36 AM

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A Smarter Way to Reduce Gun Deaths https://nyti.ms/400zQQN

4/30/2023 2:04:45 PM

rjrumfel
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^^Makes the article more clickable.

Everyone was shot from the neck up.

WTF is wrong with people. I'm a pretty calm individual, so I don't normally argue with strangers, but damn, I'm scared to say anything to anyone anymore.

This past Friday at Apex Wings this lady pulled into a parking spot while I had my door open getting my 4 year old son out of the car, and rather than waiting, she proceeded to pull in and hit the f'ing door and almost take it off. No damage appeared to be done, so I just let it go. Never know who's carrying these days.

5/1/2023 11:14:41 AM

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