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marko
Tom Joad
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/world/middleeast/benny-gantz-israel-netanyahu.html

4/9/2019 4:30:28 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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Quote :
""We won! The Israeli public has had their say!" Blue and White leader Gantz said. "Thank you to the thousands of activists and over a million voters. These elections have a clear winner and a clear loser. Netanyahu promised 40 seats and lost. The President can see the picture and should call on the winner to form the next government. There is no other option!”

Netanyahu said: “The right-wing bloc led by the Likud won a clear victory. I thank the citizens of Israel for the trust. I will start forming a right-wing government with our natural partners as soon as tonight.”"

4/9/2019 5:41:09 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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Quote :
"A Channel 12 exit poll projected Gantz's centrist party at 37 seats and Netanyahu's right-wing party at 33; two other polls put them within a seat of each other. "


37 might just be enough for a left-center coalition to happen...if of course the Arab parties decide to participate this time around. I think Kulanu will still need to switch sides as well.

4/9/2019 5:45:23 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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Word is Likud installed cameras in voting booths in areas with high concentrations of Arab voters. The Netanyahu government is a shitshow that knows no bounds.

4/9/2019 5:49:58 PM

TerdFerguson
All American
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People saying Netanyahu won.




I'm sorry, but there is no hope for Israel.

4/10/2019 7:45:27 AM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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Should be made clear that he himself isn't winning, it's still tied 35 seats each, but there won't be enough other seats from the other center-left parties to form a coalition while Netanyahu can on the right. He'll have a one-seat majority in the knesset, and he'll be held hostage by the far right who will threaten to back out and initiate another election cycle if he doesn't do their bidding.

I really wish Israelis had the chance to have a runoff vote to choose their PM just between Netanyahu and Gantz. But just like in America the whole system is broken.

4/10/2019 11:59:24 AM

TerdFerguson
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He's the figurehead of the right coalition. He's winning, even if just barely.


Look, I get that politics are complicated, and certainly the place America finds herself in right now is a good example of a government hardly representing a country's people across the board.

But we also can't excuse the fact that Israel, as a nation, has just re-elected a man that is:
-Currently Indicted
-Courted the far right racist parties in Israel, and I'm guessing will look to strengthen that alliance
-Ran explicitly on expanding settlements
-Ran implicitly on a one-state solution


In my mind, the only thing America can do at this point is get out of the way and let the full weight of the UN fall on Israel. Sanction the fuck out of them until they comply with international law.

4/10/2019 12:10:50 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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Which will just send the Israeli electorate farther to the right.

4/10/2019 12:58:48 PM

dtownral
All American
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but without US protection it could stop some of the illegal activity


but US protection won't go away, you can't even support BDS here

4/10/2019 2:13:11 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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^An individual can support BDS. You as a private consumer can make your own choices on which products to purchase and you can boycott whatever companies you like. The legislation says that companies which are engaged in a boycott against Israel cannot do business with the government, since Israel is an ally. This doesn't apply only to Israel, any government contractor has to be willing to do business with any allies, and right or wrong it's been that way for decades and only came up more recently because it's application to Israel was reinforced in Rubio's bill on Middle East Security.

No threat of sanctions, lawsuits, or impeachment have stopped Trump from engaging in right-wing nationalistic racist and corrupt activities. What makes you think it would work on Netanyahu? The change has to come from within. A new Israeli government has to be given the chance to work towards peace, and unfortunately now we have to wait longer to get there.

I said this on the last page:
Quote :
"Days after Hamas fired rockets at Tel Aviv, Netanyahu's Likud party took back the lead in election polling. Go figure."


When most people feel like their existence or identity is threatened, the run to the right (Bush Jr's reelection, for instance). Israelis live in a constant uncertainty of when the next war is coming, and anti-Israel sentiment across the world makes them feel like they will have no help when the time comes. That means more votes for militaristic security policies and less for peace plans.

4/10/2019 3:36:53 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"This doesn't apply only to Israel, any government contractor has to be willing to do business with any allies, and right or wrong it's been that way for decades and only came up more recently because it's application to Israel was reinforced in Rubio's bill on Middle East Security."

is that the shit they tell you to say? anti-boycott laws are about israel, they are a direct response to boycotts against israel.

if you support BDS you can't be awarded contracts in 27 states and many more counties. this is unquestionably unconstitutional and goes to highlight how little we allow any degree of criticism of israel, even at the expense of protected speech.

Quote :
"No threat of sanctions, lawsuits, or impeachment have stopped Trump from engaging in right-wing nationalistic racist and corrupt activities. What makes you think it would work on Netanyahu? "

If trump starts shooting medics and the UN put armed soldiers in the way I bet he would shoot fewer medics

[Edited on April 10, 2019 at 4:22 PM. Reason : .]

4/10/2019 4:21:58 PM

TerdFerguson
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Quote :
"No threat of sanctions, lawsuits, or impeachment have stopped Trump from engaging in right-wing nationalistic racist and corrupt activities. What makes you think it would work on Netanyahu? The change has to come from within. A new Israeli government has to be given the chance to work towards peace, and unfortunately now we have to wait longer to get there.

...

When most people feel like their existence or identity is threatened, the run to the right (Bush Jr's reelection, for instance). Israelis live in a constant uncertainty of when the next war is coming, and anti-Israel sentiment across the world makes them feel like they will have no help when the time comes. That means more votes for militaristic security policies and less for peace plans."


Massive UN (ie multi-country) sanctions would crash the Israeli economy within weeks, like Venezuela empty-grocery-store-shelves crashed economy. When Israelis are standing in bread lines, they won't be worried about the next war, they'll be worried about when trade can resume. Suddenly complying with international law, which they've been totally shielded from by the US for the last 4 decades, will seem pretty damn important!

The exact moment that we have 6+ months of increasing unemployment in the US (not even an economic crash, just a natural flip in the business cycle) do you really think Trump's approval rating is gonna increase? Hell naw, his approval will drop like basically every president before that has experienced a recession.

The average person, and I'm guessing the average Israeli, doesn't pay THAT close attention to political court cases, lawsuits, or impeachment. When they lose their job, or can't make rent, or food is starting to run out - look out.

4/10/2019 5:31:21 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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Quote :
"is that the shit they tell you to say?"


Way to buy into the Jewish globalist media conspiracy. But no, that's the shit the US government said in the mid-70s that is still in effect about any boycott that is in conflict with US foreign policy, meaning that the anti-boycott bills written in the past few years about Israel have been redundant, superfluous, and unnecessary. And yet it keeps getting reported as if suddenly NO ONE can boycott Israeli goods or companies that work with Israel, as if any citizen has been arrested for saying "Don't buy from XYZ" since John Adams was president. Those companies won't be given GOVERNMENT contracts. It's not like any of them have to choose between not boycotting Israel and shutting down their businesses.

Quote :
"like Venezuela empty-grocery-store-shelves crashed economy"

How has that gone for the political climate in Venezuela? Are peace-loving leaders gaining power there?

4/10/2019 5:58:59 PM

TerdFerguson
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No, but the leaders are too busy trying to cling to power to commit genocide on a broad scale.

What’s your plan? Should we just kick back and let Bibi lead our entire country by the nose into war with Iran? Should we pray to god for a two-state solution that Israel explicitly rejected in this election? Should we continue mortgaging our international credibility and shield Israel from the repercussions of its actions?

4/10/2019 6:21:24 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"
Way to buy into the Jewish globalist media conspiracy. But no, that's the shit the US government said in the mid-70s "


... in response to Arab league protests. Anti-boycott laws are both unconstitutional and about Israel.

And globalist conspiracy, wtf are you on about? This is more of the same BS nonsense that tries to portray any criticism of Israel as antisemitism. Did you get that talking point from the same people who paid for you to go on vacation to Israel?

Quote :
"It's not like any of them have to choose between not boycotting Israel and shutting down their"

Unless you're one of the many people who bid on public projects, in which case your 1st amendment rights are violated

[Edited on April 10, 2019 at 7:20 PM. Reason : .]

4/10/2019 7:10:26 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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Quote :
"Way to buy into the Jewish globalist media conspiracy"


Quote :
"Did you get that talking point from the same people who paid for you to go on vacation to Israel?"


4/10/2019 8:21:18 PM

dtownral
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Your posts here are the only response anyone makes, it's all trying to pretend like any criticism of Israel is part of some antisemitic conspiracy. Criticism of Israel is not a conspiracy, it's not antisemitic.

4/10/2019 10:49:00 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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I have never once said criticism of Israel is a conspiracy or anti-Semitic. I criticize Israel all the time, especially the Netanyahu regime.

Saying that I must get paid by Israel and/or rich Jewish donors to say positive things about Israel on the internet is exactly what the anti-Semitic internet conspiracy theorists do.

In all the conversations leading up to this election we've all agreed on the problems...that Netanyahu and the spreading of settlements and his partnerships for far-right racist extremists are a danger to any future peace where Palestinians and Israels can both live safe and healthy lives. We just disagree on the solution. And BDS is not a solution, it causes more problems and hurts the chances of convincing Israelis to vote more liberally.

4/11/2019 2:34:56 AM

dtownral
All American
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Being offered trips and citizenship has clearly made you biased and not impartial, there's no conspiracy

4/11/2019 7:04:55 AM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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Americans with Mexican citizenship are clearly biased and their opinions about a border wall don't count.

4/11/2019 12:49:19 PM

dtownral
All American
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if mexico offers citizenship and trips to people based on their religion it will in fact bias the opinion of those people, however never have a claimed they don't count

4/11/2019 2:03:04 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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The Israeli President, Reuven Rivlin, has a week to choose which candidate will get the first shot at forming a majority coalition. He announced he'll be broadcasting all of his meetings live to the public for the sake of government transparency. That's never been done before.

4/11/2019 4:08:42 PM

GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
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Quote :
"And BDS is not a solution, it causes more problems and hurts the chances of convincing Israelis to vote more liberally"


Possibly, but we shouldn't be restricting the ability of people or organizations to participate in it.

At this point it's hard to ever call Israel an ally with a straight face. They do whatever the fuck they want, and if we complain at all they throw a fit and their lobby here goes berserk. Meanwhile we foot the bill for their shenanigans and get nothing out of it except diplomatic difficulty and internally toxic politics. It's time to start stepping down our relationship with Israel, including reducing our military aid to them. We won't, of course, because that aid is at least as much to prop up bloated defense contractors as it is for the "only democracy* in the Middle East.". But we should.

I'm not transactional about aid the way Trump is - by all means, let's figure HIV and hunger and lack of water and all the rest, even if there's no tangible payoff for us - but god-damned if I like paying someone to fart in my breakfast every day. The Europeans are kinda shitty, but at least with NATO we get to fuck with Russia.

4/12/2019 9:29:04 AM

0EPII1
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Here is a right wing Israeli politician....

https://www.rt.com/news/454242-israeli-shoots-arab-rival-video/amp/

You would think such an ad wouldn't be allowed, but nah, we are talking about Israel, a fascist Nazi country. Disgusting and sick as hell.

P.S.

Quote :
"The Jewish politician has become “famous” for berating a grieving Arab mother trying to visit her incarcerated son, for threatening to execute an entire Palestinian family for their relative’s alleged crime and for expressing his desire to kick teenage resistance icon Ahed Tamimi in the face."


[Edited on April 13, 2019 at 4:10 PM. Reason : ]

4/13/2019 4:09:30 PM

GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
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Well, if there's one thing gonna change my mind about a complex and nuanced issue, it's 0EPII1 calling Jews nazis while citing rt.com.

4/13/2019 10:16:52 PM

0EPII1
All American
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Yes, because the video ad he made -- on his Twitter account, reproduced in the article -- has something to do with RT.

4/13/2019 11:05:11 PM

dtownral
All American
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The daily mail didnt have a story about it?

4/13/2019 11:14:10 PM

rwoody
Save TWW
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There's a million words to describe the Israeli regime and he picks nazis

4/13/2019 11:21:15 PM

synapse
play so hard
57313 Posts
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Are you surprised?

4/14/2019 12:51:19 AM

0EPII1
All American
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The Nazis strike again

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israeli-soldiers-shoot-bound-blindfolded-palestinian-teen-trying-to-flee-1.7151104

4/22/2019 5:44:07 AM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
48975 Posts
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https://twitter.com/elizrael/status/1120709062277120001?s=21

Haha. Dude is the easiest mark and even Netanyahu knows it.

4/23/2019 11:21:52 AM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
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Netanyahu failed to form a coalition!

Typically the runner-up in the election would be given a shot to form a coalition, but instead Netanyahu called for a vote to dissolve the current government, which passed 74-45 in the knesset, and now new elections have to be held again in September.

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/29/728103407/israeli-parliament-schedules-unprecedented-early-elections

5/30/2019 1:03:32 AM

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