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ElGimpy
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I've considered the idea that Westworld is a Matrix or Avatar world of sorts, and the visitors aren't actually physically "there". This would pretty much answer all current questions, though I've no idea if that's true.

Regardless, I think a lot of these questions run a fine balance between "suspension of disbelief" and understanding the "rules of the world". On one hand they seem to have a whole lot of technology we don't yet have, so it's not exactly difficult for me to just assume some of these questions about bullets or lack thereof is possible as well, just not in our time. On the other, since a lot of this show looks like it's going to be around the potential for whether the hosts can indeed hurt the newcomers, those rules definitely need to be established to create a consistent and believable narrative

10/11/2016 11:01:45 AM

DROD900
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yeah, I'm thinking there is some sort of "plugging in" (similar to matrix/avatar) going on, like gimpy said. That would explain how Anthony Hopkins was able to manipulate the rattlesnake, and several other aspects of the show.

What it won't explain is why the crew had to go in and retrieve the hosts after the shootout scene, or why there is the repair room area that the prostitute stumbled upon. Or why there is the decommission area below ground, if everyone is plugged into some virtual world, why have real life hosts at all?

I think I'm more confused after making this post than before

10/11/2016 11:28:10 AM

ElGimpy
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In that regard it could be more of an "Avatar" world, where there is a physical location with physical hosts, but the newcomers only visit through an "avatar", whether that be a physical entity or computer program or sorts. Could be a clue in how Hopkins got there seemingly through a different "vehicle" than the newcomers

10/11/2016 11:43:34 AM

Wraith
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Anthony Hopkins got in through that random elevator thing out in the middle of the desert. If they are using avatars though, that still doesn't quite explain how they get onto a moving train from a stationary room...?

10/11/2016 11:56:43 AM

dzags18
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There is definitely no plugging in, we've seen them clearly building the androids.

10/11/2016 10:38:50 PM

dtownral
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So the man in black is a host that ages and wants to escape?

10/12/2016 7:39:43 AM

Wraith
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^Didn't they say that he was a guest though at some point? I think when he rescued the guy that was about to be hung? I think it was along the lines of "He just massacred a whole town -- should I slow him down?" and someone else said "No, he's a paying guest. Let him do what he wants."

10/12/2016 9:00:21 AM

LudaChris
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^I don't think they said he's a "paying guest", I think they said something along the lines of "no, he can do whatever he wants".

Man in black doesn't seem to be a host, since he said "I've been coming here for 30 years", so I'd take that as he is just constantly playing.

That's another thing they haven't touched on. How many players are playing at one time? How long do the sessions last? They show that they have fix things in between "sessions" and then the storylines and positions all reset to one starting point, so I wonder if they just constantly run sessions that last some amount of time or if they just let it run until all users have completed their storylines? How freaking large is the building hosting this "theme park"?

If the Man in Black has really been going consistently for 30 years, I'd expect him to be even more of a sociopath, 30 years of murdering/raping hosts in the game would likely cause some serious mental issues and disassociation with the real world.

10/12/2016 9:21:34 AM

TKE-Teg
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^The building has at least 85 levels. And just because the man in black has been coming there for 30 years doesn't mean he's been raping and murdering for 30 years. For all we know he just picked up that habit recently.

10/12/2016 11:01:13 AM

dtownral
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isn't the man in black also the little kid that sees the maze? he did what the guy told him the same way the snake did, so i assumed host but then he ages so i'm not sure.

10/12/2016 11:51:07 AM

Wraith
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I'm pretty sure that the man in black is a human participant. I don't think they would let one of the androids run amok like that -- even if he couldn't hurt the guests, his invincibility would break the immersion and ruin the game for other guests. The programmers know what he is doing and are allowing it. They may not necessarily know his motivations though, and perhaps they just think he enjoys all the death and destruction.

What I'm thinking is that maybe he's a rich guy in real life that got drawn into the game so he just pays to live his life there. After doing all of the quests and kind of getting bored with it, he's convinced that there is a deeper level to the game, maybe an easter egg or a whole secret area or something that needs to be unlocked (hence the maze on the back of the guys skull). Or maybe he is exploiting glitches or something and is somehow able to hide that from the programmers.

10/12/2016 12:43:27 PM

Klatypus
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^I'll buy that


also so MAYBE there is the possibility that while the hosts are physically there, but the newcomers/players are plugged in

10/12/2016 1:06:27 PM

ElGimpy
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Yes that's what I was referring to with an "Avatar" like idea

10/12/2016 1:13:17 PM

Klatypus
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yep, but then someone 'disproved it' a few posts up because we saw how the hosts are built, I guess I was clarifying the avatar theory still holds

10/12/2016 1:37:12 PM

ElGimpy
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yeah I was seconding your idea kind of, or thirding mine...seeing hosts being built doesn't mean for sure that the newcomers are actually, physically there

they might be, but I haven't seen any sign of that yet

10/12/2016 2:00:50 PM

ncsuallday
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Quote :
"I'm pretty sure that the man in black is a human participant. I don't think they would let one of the androids run amok like that -- even if he couldn't hurt the guests, his invincibility would break the immersion and ruin the game for other guests. The programmers know what he is doing and are allowing it. They may not necessarily know his motivations though, and perhaps they just think he enjoys all the death and destruction.

What I'm thinking is that maybe he's a rich guy in real life that got drawn into the game so he just pays to live his life there. After doing all of the quests and kind of getting bored with it, he's convinced that there is a deeper level to the game, maybe an easter egg or a whole secret area or something that needs to be unlocked (hence the maze on the back of the guys skull). Or maybe he is exploiting glitches or something and is somehow able to hide that from the programmers."


Exactly. They allow it because he's rich and the world is created for them - no matter what. There are no android rights in this society apparently. He's bored / wants to discover the deeper meaning - he said he's been there for 30 years. He symbolizes raw human greed/evil/the devil/etc. They also drive that metaphor home when they let homeboy (again bad with names) pick between the white hat (good) or the black (bad).

I think Hopkins' character is interesting and the black dude. Hopkins is the original creator right? And he's realized that he's losing control of the company, which is clearly taking on a more profit-driven direction whereas he's curious to see how far the AI and his creation can really go (god mode) on its own. Can organic come from inorganic? I think the black dude is curious as well and is the last of the old guard that has any sympathy for androids. I'm not sure where the woman/boss lady he's sleeping with falls quite yet.

10/12/2016 5:00:06 PM

sarijoul
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There's speculation that the black guy is actually an android and is Hopkins' character's ultimate creation. Since it's an android who creates other androids.

[Edited on October 12, 2016 at 8:21 PM. Reason : .]

10/12/2016 8:20:58 PM

ElGimpy
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The show definitely made a big deal about the white vs black hat choice, but also Teddy wears a black hat, and so far he seems to be not just a good guy, but a purposeful good guy (so far)

More on the point of the man in black and what he stands for though. Are we really supposed to think he's so terrible. Granted, the source material for the show was written before the argument I'm about to make, but if you ignore that are the MIB's (man in black ) actions really all that different than what any one of us could or would do in a giant video game? Essentially this is just a real world Grand Theft Auto (I know there are probably better examples, but I haven't kept up with games). Not one of you probably has any problem running around stealing cars, running over random innocents on the street, shooting people point blank in the face, or banging hookers. Sure this is different in that you see the terror on the host's faces and you can't tell the difference between them and real people, but MIB has been coming here for 30 years. I'm guessing each session last maybe a couple months, but even if they last for a year, that means MIB has been through this game 30 times already. 30 times he's come in and seen some of the hosts say the exact same thing and do the exact same thing over and over. The only thing that REALLY seems to give him a stroke of evil (imo) is that he'd rather rape the main character than have consentual sex with her. But again, this is fantasy, and we don't necessarily condemn every person today who might have a rape fantasy so long as they don't actually act on those thoughts. Does it say something terrible about you? Yeah, probably...but in the context of this show I'm just trying to make the argument that we may be quick to assume to MIB is truly a bad guy.

He may be, but he may not

10/13/2016 9:12:51 AM

Money_Jones
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"Which is actually another thing I'm really curious about -- how do they "get" into the world? That one guy just walked through a door and was suddenly on a moving train. Maybe some kind of teleportation portal or something?"


No, he walked through a doorway and was suddenly on a NOT moving train, we know this because once his buddy got in too, it very clearly began moving from a stationary position, at which point they cut to a reveal shot that they were on the train that we have already seen bring other guests into the park.

10/13/2016 1:20:51 PM

ElGimpy
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"it very clearly began moving from a stationary position"


My recollection is that it was suddenly moving at full speed and it was presented as kind of magical. A train starting from stationary to full speed takes more than a couple seconds. Could it be a future style train that goes from 0-60 at the drop of a hat? Sure, but we're left to wonder

10/13/2016 1:37:24 PM

Wraith
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Yeah I thought it was at full speed too? When it showed the external shot, there weren't any train stations or anything nearby (which isn't to say they couldn't have just had some kind of popup doorway or whatever that led right into the train).

10/13/2016 2:41:28 PM

Money_Jones
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The back bar room of the train is where guests enter from their underground dressing level, it seems to be on an elevator, it picks the first guy up, moves up (you can tell by looking at the door he entered from), picks his friend up, moves up again and attaches to the train, everything starts shaking and light comes through the side windows as if a train began pulling it out of a tunnel, you can see out the window it does not seem to be going at any abnormal speed. There are lots of things the episode left us to wonder about, but the train situation should not be one of them.

10/13/2016 2:56:14 PM

ElGimpy
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^ I have a completely different memory than you do of that scene, but I only watched it once, so I'm not going to argue any further

actually I will, once more...everything started shaking all of a sudden. As a train picks starts you can feel it moving but it doesn't start shaking like that until a certain speed. So the options as I see them are:

1) New dude is oblivious to what it feels like to be on a slowly moving train picking up speed (because I believe he asks a question about when or how they get to the park)
2) This is a special new train that can start moving quickly without you being able to feel it, but then they throw in the shaking all of a sudden to make it more "western" like

[Edited on October 13, 2016 at 3:38 PM. Reason : asdf]

10/13/2016 3:24:05 PM

Money_Jones
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This is a completely asinine and unimportant thing to even still be discussing, especially if you have not rewatched the scene. The first guy is an audience surrogate, when he enters the bar area, just like the viewer, he does not realize that he is on a train, as all he can see is blackness on the sides since they are going up an elevator shaft (watch the door after each of them walk in and this is easy to see), so he asks how thy will get into the park, things start to shake as their car is attached to the rest of the train and it pulls out, revealing to both the viewer and the first guy that he is actually on a train on its way into the park.

10/13/2016 5:22:34 PM

tommy wiseau
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here's one thing I'm confused by: in one scene, they have Maeve out for repairs and after they update her aggression level, they say you'll wake up in 3,2,1... and then we see her in the bar talking to James Marsden. so are there duplicates of the hosts that they can control and update? I don't quite understand how they'd transport her immediately back into the bar.

10/13/2016 10:49:08 PM

ElGimpy
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I agree it's a stupid point to argue

I'm not arguing against the elevator aspect of it. I'm simply saying you don't go from 0 to shaking violently within 5 seconds on a train

10/14/2016 9:19:02 AM

ncsuallday
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this guy is gonna make an appearance in episode 3

10/14/2016 5:23:18 PM

Wraith
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^lol all I can think of while watching this show is Red Dead Redemption. I just played through it a few months ago.

10/15/2016 12:56:45 AM

dtownral
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Quote :
"There's speculation that the black guy is actually an android and is Hopkins' character's ultimate creation. Since it's an android who creates other androids."

that is what i am posting about

the kid with him at the maze was an android, and the man in black trying to get back to that maze is an android and possibly the same android as the kid in an older body

10/15/2016 3:46:31 PM

moron
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Did the guy trying to get to the maze flip a thing on his gun to shoot through walls?

10/15/2016 6:36:02 PM

Money_Jones
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He had a different type of bullet, like a shotgun or something, that his gun could also use for one shot, he did a special shot to specifically use that round to shoot the guy through the wall

10/15/2016 7:55:22 PM

Klatypus
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"^lol all I can think of while watching this show is Red Dead Redemption. I just played through it a few months ago"


yea, I'm waiting for John Marston to die and for his kid to get to Mexico already

10/16/2016 1:53:28 AM

dweedle
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speaking of Red Dead

a new game just got teased by Rockstar

10/16/2016 12:05:38 PM

ncsuallday
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^HYPE IS BACK ON THE MENU BOYS

-some Redditor

10/16/2016 2:47:47 PM

AndyMac
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Shit's probably just an HD remaster with a persistent online world full of microtransactions.

Rockstar has learned where the real money is.

10/16/2016 11:56:35 PM

AndyMac
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Wonder if the man in black is Anthony Hopkins partner he claimed was dead.

10/17/2016 8:14:52 AM

TKE-Teg
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***SPOILER for last night***


How did that host stuck between the rocks suddenly get unstuck? At precisely a pretty bad moment.

10/17/2016 8:34:13 AM

AndyMac
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I dont think he was immobile he was just in a crevasse he couldn't get out of until the dude came down with the rope

10/17/2016 8:41:26 AM

ElGimpy
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OK I'm getting pretty confused about the timeline/resets going on in the world. In the span of last week's episode and this one it's all be McPoyle's first trip. It also appears that Dolores has woken up, dropped that can, and had her family murdered like 3-5 times in that same time period. We know every day doesn't start off the same way as a whole for everyone involved because multiple times they've referenced how certain groups aren't due in town for 2 weeks or something like that.

So do some people's days just run in a loop (like Dolores), instead of having a period long arc? Or are we watching two or more different timelines?

10/17/2016 9:27:09 AM

Wraith
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^Yeah I'm pretty confused by that too. Not sure how long each "session" is.

Glad they confirmed that the the guns actually do shoot something. May be something similar to airsoft. Still curious as to what would happen if they shot someone in the eye though.

And I'm definitely thinking that Ed Harris is the partner that "died".

10/17/2016 10:11:53 AM

ncsuallday
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Quote :
"And I'm definitely thinking that Ed Harris is the partner that "died"."


dammmnnnn good call. would explain how he's been able to play for 30 years. I wonder if the "center" or whatever he's looking for has to do with the top of the pyramid - the self-actualization type of thing that was missing. It also makes you wonder if Hopkins is aware somehow and what side he's on.

[Edited on October 17, 2016 at 10:39 AM. Reason : .]

10/17/2016 10:38:53 AM

Money_Jones
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Well in the photo of him and his partner it is very clearly a younger Anyhony Hopkins, the other guy does not really look like a young Ed Harris

10/17/2016 11:45:43 AM

BEU
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If he is the partner, you would think he would have a better understanding of what the maze is instead of looking for it like he is.

10/17/2016 11:58:07 AM

ElGimpy
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he definitely doesn't talk like someone who helped to create the world

10/17/2016 12:00:19 PM

ncsuallday
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he's unhinged tho

10/17/2016 1:20:40 PM

Wraith
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Anthony Hopkins didn't go into detail with the extent of the "accident", maybe it caused some kind of brain damage or something and rather than see his friend waste away in a mental hospital, he thought there wouldn't be any harm in letting him run around in the park for the rest of his life where he can't hurt anyone? Perhaps the maze or something is his attempt at escaping?


Or maybe it's just because he's spent the past 30 years raping and pillaging so he's gone a little crazy.

10/17/2016 2:16:50 PM

Money_Jones
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Ed Harris doesn't want to escape, he said he's trying to find the maze so that he'll never have to leave again.

10/17/2016 3:49:48 PM

Klatypus
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"Anthony Hopkins didn't go into detail with the extent of the "accident", maybe it caused some kind of brain damage or something and rather than see his friend waste away in a mental hospital, he thought there wouldn't be any harm in letting him run around in the park for the rest of his life where he can't hurt anyone? Perhaps the maze or something is his attempt at escaping?"



that's kinds of a cool concept/theory and would make for an interesting twist, although I agree that ^ Ed doesn't seem to have intentions of escaping, but perhaps he is so far gone he doesn't realize he is being held captive? or maybe it's more of a distraction to keep him there? I suppose anything is possible

10/18/2016 9:45:27 AM

dtownral
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so my understanding is that this show takes place after the events of the original film. is it worth watching the original or reading the book?

10/18/2016 10:34:22 AM

synapse
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Quote :
"So do some people's days just run in a loop (like Dolores), instead of having a period long arc?"


I'd bet that's the case for many, especially if they're not involved in a storyline (like those guys out at camp stuck in a loop, or the sheriff going out in the canyons to look for bad guys).

So what's going on overall here? Hopkins put some new code in that allows them to access their memories, bringing them closer to being self aware? He had to have done that on purpose right?

And the dude that Delores shot...that had to be a host right?

10/18/2016 11:18:37 AM

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