User not logged in - login - register
Home Calendar Books School Tool Photo Gallery Message Boards Users Statistics Advertise Site Info
go to bottom | |
 Message Boards » » Bernie 2016 Page 1 ... 26 27 28 29 [30] 31, Prev Next  
Shrike
All American
9475 Posts
user info
edit post

The memo which you believes parts of but not others which specifically say it applies only the general election and not the primary nomination process? Not to mention that it's unclear if the agreements asserted in that memo were even adhered to,

https://www.thedailybeast.com/theres-a-serious-hole-in-donna-braziles-new-book

Quote :
"In fact, he hadn’t really been on the campaign’s radar at all. Clinton’s team had sent the DNC several other options for the post, top among them Jess McIntosh, who had been serving at the time as the communications director of Emily's List. But according to half a dozen sources, their requests were ultimately set aside by then Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who was won over by Miranda’s pitch to emphasize her as the election year ramped up."


Quote :
"In a deliberate understatement, Miranda himself told The Daily Beast last week that he and the Clinton campaign did “not always agree on matters.”

Months after the Miranda hiring, the DNC would bring on Mark Paustenbach as its national press secretary. Once again, operational control was not afforded to the campaign. As three Clinton campaign staffers told The Daily Beast, they found out about the hiring when the news broke in Politico’s Playbook.

“We were given no heads up about that at all,” said one campaign veteran, “which goes to show you how much power we had over the DNC.”"


This entire controversy has been resurrected by someone with serious credibility problems who until a week ago was a pariah to anyone who supported Bernie Sanders. She hooked you folks by spinning a literal sob story about finding "the smoking gun" and calling up Bernie with "tears in her eyes" in order to market her upcoming book. And you all fell for it, hook, line and sinker. Marks, the lot of you.

[Edited on November 9, 2017 at 12:35 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2017 12:31:43 PM

dtownral
All American
23582 Posts
user info
edit post

And was approved by HFA per their agreement, not even the source who won't go on the record (lol, you got spinzoned) doesn't deny that

11/9/2017 1:03:09 PM

UJustWait84
All American
24441 Posts
user info
edit post

You both are doing a bang up job of showing where there's such a schism within the Democratic party- as if it wasn't already obvious enough. By all means continue, as it's clearly a productive use of time and energy.

11/9/2017 1:33:37 PM

rjrumfel
All American
21120 Posts
user info
edit post

This type of chaotic back and forth is going to let Trump be president for another four years after 2020.

11/9/2017 1:41:35 PM

thegoodlife3
All American
34546 Posts
user info
edit post

it may seem that way on the internet, but that wasn’t the case on Tuesday

11/9/2017 1:48:41 PM

rjrumfel
All American
21120 Posts
user info
edit post

Tuesday wasn't picking a president.

11/9/2017 2:27:47 PM

thegoodlife3
All American
34546 Posts
user info
edit post

it was a referendum on the current president

11/9/2017 2:35:13 PM

UJustWait84
All American
24441 Posts
user info
edit post

It's a small sample size, but it did show that the Democratic party isn't in total disrepair in swing states like many have suggested. I take it as a positive sign, but there's still a ton more to do. Energizing apathetic young voters is key, and so is running likable candidates with progressive messages.

11/9/2017 2:49:12 PM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
48629 Posts
user info
edit post

The young vote for Northam was overwhelming. And he is as boring generic Dem as they come..

11/9/2017 2:52:30 PM

UJustWait84
All American
24441 Posts
user info
edit post

Well, they were energized because Gillespie was offering up Trumpism rhetoric and fear mongering. In fact, Gillespie's message actually drew out plenty of people who liked what he was selling them. It's just that young people are pretty pissed right now because they're now starting to see direct consequences in their lives (or the lives of their minority friends), and those consequences stem from sitting on their asses on election day, or voting in protest of HRC, thinking it would somehow send a message.

11/9/2017 2:59:08 PM

rjrumfel
All American
21120 Posts
user info
edit post

Hey I for one hope the Dems can pull someone great from the ashes to run in 2020. Just like I have a failed hope that the Republicans won't pick the incumbent. But how often does that happen?

11/9/2017 3:09:40 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
14170 Posts
user info
edit post

John Tyler, 1844, Whig
Millard Fillmore, 1852, Whig
Andrew Johnson, 1868, Democrat
Chester Arthur, 1884, Republican
**Lyndon Johnson, 1968, Democrat
**Harry Truman, 1952, Democrat

None of the replacements won the next election. Also worth noting that all of the above incumbents became president because of the death of their predecessor, so none of them were ever elected as president in the first place. (**withdrew during the early primary run, so they technically didn't "lose" it)

The following presidents faced a challenger but still won the primary:
George H.W. Bush (1992, lost general)
Jimmy Carter (1980, lost general)
Gerald Ford (1976, lost general)
Richard Nixon (1972, won general but resigned before finishing 2nd term)

[Edited on November 9, 2017 at 4:50 PM. Reason : -]

11/9/2017 4:28:35 PM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

Nick Brana, national outreach coordinator for Bernie's 2016 campaign, started an organization last year to bring together leftist movements and hopefully create a viable third party.

https://www.forapeoplesparty.org/

They just released their platform and will be discussing it tonight in their weekly organizing call. 9:30pm EST. You can listen and comment here:

https://www.forapeoplesparty.org/weekly-national-calls/

2/22/2018 6:02:30 PM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

I haven't heard anything since the conference but this whole thing smells like shit. Why are they going through the destructive process of making a brand new party from scratch when a progressive party already exists with ballot access? Why would you center a movement around a single person making the entire thing vulnerable to that person's life (Bernie is old) or hijacking (joining the democrats). Partys should not be built from the top down.

What do you disagree about within the green party platform? I just read the entire platform and nowhere there or on their website do they even mention the green party, even when they talk about the history of 3rd party's. They even suggest a "green new deal" in their platform which is stolen directly from the green party. Unbelievable how shady this is unless they address what makes them stand out.

Please tell me where this platform differs? All they have done is taken green party positions and pretended like they are something brand new that America has been waiting for. It sounds like a real trap and we have a right to be super cautious.
Quote :
""The prospect of facing an empowered Green Party in 2020 is the strongest mechanism of accountability that Bernie supporters can create." -- Nick Braña"


Let me tell you a story. I was with a group of progressives that met weekly in Brooklyn in 2015 and they all decided to divert their money to Bernie because he was progressive. Most of the group registered democrat and donated a lot of time and money to Bernie's campaign. All of that money ended up going to Hillary and the DNC fixed the primary before NY even got a chance to vote. These people all lost their money and their chance to promote progressive values in the 2016 election. The ones I still keep in touch with are all green and the ones I don't really talk to anymore said they are done with poltiics. One was only 24 and has already moved to Denmark.

Why should we trust former democrat officials to take control over the "progressive" movement when they off nothing new?

2/22/2018 7:07:07 PM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

Leftists who share 99% of the same goals are splintered throughout multiple third parties. Greens, DSA, WFA, etc. The goal of MPP is to bring them together into a strong, united left.

Quote :
"What do you disagree about within the green party platform? "


I agree with most of the green platform. Unfortunately, their name is tainted. People have already branded them as crazies and I don't see how they turn that around, even in the long term. And again, this is about bringing the left together, including the Greens. They're meeting with local chapters as we speak.

Quote :
"Why should we trust former democrat officials to take control over the "progressive" movement when they off nothing new?"


Because we don't have a chance otherwise. I spoke with one of the national coordinators on the phone for 30 minutes and I can tell you personally that these aren't Democrats. I told her I wouldn't campaign for Bernie if he ran as a Democrat. Her response was "Good." Join in on the call if you have doubts.

BTW this doesn't necessarily mean creating a new party. We could combine under an existing party.

[Edited on February 22, 2018 at 7:25 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2018 7:18:12 PM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

It all sounds good and I'll believe it when I see tangible actions. Until then, I'm skeptical this is just a sheepdog movement to suck up all of the progressive donations the left suppressed then with not giving the election to trump as an excuse, they will back out and endorse the democratic candidate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO4BurdExKw

My problem with his answer is that relying on drawing in conservatives to support a progressive platform is bound to fail. You are under the impression that conservatives will support anything Bernie is behind but if you simply swap out the party name they will suddenly be turned off by the same platform.
Quote :
"Leftists who share 99% of the same goals are splintered throughout multiple third parties. Greens, DSA, WFA, etc. "

This is the DNC party line. Diminish the green party by conflating it with much smaller, leftist movements. The DSA is not a party and as a non-profit organization, they influence politicians who run as democrats or greens.
Quote :
"Unlike the Green Party or the Libertarian Party or even the new “Moderate Whig Party,” the DSA is not registered with the Federal Election Commission as a political party."

What is the WFA?

You're comparing these groups with a well-established political party with ballot access in 19 states. Its not constructive to get rid of all of the infrastructure just to rebuild it if the name is the only thing different. I don't believe that is the real answer to the question. I think they are avoiding the green party because it is actually progressive.
Quote :
"Unfortunately, their name is tainted. People have already branded them as crazies and I don't see how they turn that around, even in the long term."

The same thing will happen to any new party that challenges the establishment parties. If the platform is progressive, the moderates will certainly label it as crazy. Conservative pundits picked up on Trump's "crazy Bernie" pretty quickly and Hillary supporters always told me that Bernie was only appealing because he hadn't been exposed to the right, and that we couldn't nominate him because the right would expose his progressive policies as "socialist" and he would get destroyed in a general.

Quote :
"And again, this is about bringing the left together"

*Claims to be but lets see what they do because creating a brand new group doesn't sound to me like the first step in unification. If I wanted to unite libertarians, I would join the libertarian party, not start a new one

Quote :
"BTW this doesn't necessarily mean creating a new party. We could combine under an existing party."

So if its not the green party there is only one other option...

[Edited on February 22, 2018 at 9:13 PM. Reason : sounds more like they want to divide and conq]

[Edited on February 22, 2018 at 9:14 PM. Reason : trust]

2/22/2018 9:11:34 PM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

Keep in mind you are a former Democrat.

Quote :
"What is the WFA?"


Meant to say WFP. Working Familes Party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Families_Party

[Edited on February 22, 2018 at 9:28 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2018 9:18:27 PM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"This allows sympathetic voters to support a minor party without feeling like they are "wasting" their vote. Usually, the WFP endorses the Democratic Party candidate, but it has occasionally endorsed moderate Republican Party candidates as a strategy for spurring bi-partisan action on its policy priorities."

LOL

2/22/2018 10:21:10 PM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"Rand Paul: the only real person in the senate"


-tulsigabbard

2/22/2018 11:16:31 PM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

Can I not acknowledge his authenticity without endorsing him? Must everyone whom I do not agree with or support politically be considered dishonest or insincere?

2/22/2018 11:28:04 PM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

You railed against Democrats for not getting behind workers, and now you're laughing at a 50,000 person workers' party because they endorsed a couple of republicans. You're a joke dawg.

2/22/2018 11:34:06 PM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

I wasn't laughing at them, I'm laughing at the notion that we can just be thrown into a bag with a group who sometimes supports republicans just because we are all part of "the left". Thats what the democratic party already is.

Power to them they can do what they want but don't put us into a bag with them.

2/22/2018 11:44:05 PM

dtownral
All American
23582 Posts
user info
edit post

adultswim getting earl'd

2/23/2018 8:16:09 AM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
48629 Posts
user info
edit post

Can we talk about how bad a person and candidate Jill Stein is as a reason why a Green Party vote was so disgusting last year?

She’s basically a walking joke even in other, more serious parts of the global Green Party.

2/23/2018 8:40:39 AM

dtownral
All American
23582 Posts
user info
edit post

the US green party is not a serious party and they have no interest in being one

[Edited on February 23, 2018 at 8:58 AM. Reason : US]

2/23/2018 8:56:12 AM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"Can we talk about how bad a person and candidate Jill Stein is as a reason why a Green Party vote was so disgusting last year?"

Go on. Talk about it because you've made a wild claim with no supporting details.

Quote :
"She’s basically a walking joke even in other, more serious parts of the global Green Party."

Its funny how the same people who dismiss 3rd party candidates as "a complete joke" over a few gaffes, go on to vote for candidates who are corrupt, have bad policies, and make gaffes of their own.

There are two completely different standards. These people require 3rd party candidates be nearly perfect to get their votes but when it comes to democrat and republican candidates, their only standard is that one is not as bad as the other. I say 3rd party because Johnson was also completely written off as unqualified over one harmless statement in the same way Stein was. The corrupt, bought out candidates who said and did things that were actually harmful got all the votes.

This is why Trump is your president and also why part of me is glad because people who vote for lesser of two evils deserve evil.
Quote :
"the US green party is not a serious party and they have no interest in being one"

Another wild, unsubstantiated claim that can't be comprehended by people who have elected green party politicians representing them.

2/23/2018 7:28:10 PM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

I found a thread about this on a green party board. They were all talking like me. I told them that I was a member of this board and told them that a group of you were self-identified progressives who think the green party is a joke and that you can't explain why. I also told them you genuinely thought Jill Stein was a bad candidate but again, you could not explain why. I asked them what they thought about draft bernie. They gave lots of feedback and it turned into a huge echo chamber of anti-bernie anti-democrat posts. They were all direct responses to me but got kind of off-topic. I will post some of them so you can see its real becuase some people on here will say anything thats different is trolling.

Quote :
"Except the Green Party is not using Russia as a scapegoat like Bernie and the corporate controlled Democrats are doing now. Jill Stein defended herself very well and thoroughly against Alex Witt's false accusation on MSNBC of her colluding with Russia to interfere with the 2016 election. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZzBPBYJndc
"


Quote :
"So basically you’re saying let’s copy the Green Party and stick the sheep dog up front umm I don’t think so"


Quote :
"Bernie Sanders is a war criminal with the blood of over 1 million innocent Middle Eastern men, women, and kids on his hands. Pretending to run under a Green platform will never wash that off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCF7Wx_Bp0M"


Quote :
"Q. What do you think about the Bernie people creating their own party with basically the same platform as the green party?

A. It's silly, but that's their choice. It could benefit the Green Party if the Berniecrats withdraw their votes and dollars from the Democratic Party, but it is possible that the Democratic Party could use them like they use the Working Family Party to corral votes for Democratic Party candidates in fusion states from progressives who somehow think they can use the WFP to leverage Democrats into more progressive positions, or to further dilute the third party left votes."


Quote :
"I can't see Sanders supporting the Greens. He's entrenched in the two-party system"


Quote :
"Of course? If you are a Constitution fan , maybe Bernie Party works better. I didn’t realize how antiAmerican Greens were on guns."


Quote :
"Their platform is over complicated. It seems very capitalist. As if bad corporations can be convinced to behave themselves."


Quote :
"I think my face is stuck with a sneer of derision, even though I've scrolled down. I like to think that a political party has platforms, and that they put forth the best they have in candidates, rather than centering a party around a candidate, like worshipping an idol. What happens to the party when Bernie is gone? Do they come to the Greens, or do they go back to being Democrats?"


Quote :
"Won't ever happened. Sanders made extremely clear that he WON'T work with any party but the Democratic party. Besides he's a fake Progressive, a DNC sheepdog."


Quote :
"If Jill runs again in 2020, she will, again, be the best person for the job bar none. If the gp nominates sanders (on the miracle he decides to be a Green) I will no longer support the gp as it will have lost its way."


Quote :
"I imagine it would depend upon where and to what extent one would want the Green Party to pivot and collaborate. I would have no problem with the GP working together with other left third parties (e.g., SPUSA, ISO, SAlt, etc.) and try to coordinate logistics of which parties are running for which offices so that we aren't dividing votes at a local level by running candidates agaiinst each other for the same offices."


Quote :
"Being said, I would be reluctant to work with any of Brana's Draft Bernie stuff or his People's Party effort since he is basically taking a wheel into an auto factory and saying to us, "look at this great thing that I invented that you can put on your cars.""


Quote :
"The reason the green party hasn't built momentum is not hard to fathom my respected progressive friend - too many people are bamboozled into voting for Democrats because the Democrats shake Trump at them like an evil voodoo doll or somebody like Bernie Sanders pretends to be progressive, steals our platform and sucks our natural voting base to the Democrats. Supporting the Democrats stops the green party in its tracks. I recommend we follow a different path, one that actually promotes the green party and not the Democratic party or any of its vote sucking tentacles"


Quote :
"Best of luck to them but it will take at least 20 years for them to obtain the ballot access of the GP. Why start from scratch?"


Quote :
"I'd rather collaborate with the Nazis at least they were honest about who the hell they really were"


Not one person flamed it. The stark contrast I notice about progressives is that they never shy away from provocation and are always eager to defend our positions and justify them with reasoning.

[Edited on February 26, 2018 at 8:32 PM. Reason : lmao HAD to include that last one]

[Edited on February 26, 2018 at 8:35 PM. Reason : good points]

2/26/2018 8:27:09 PM

Cherokee
All American
7936 Posts
user info
edit post

I figured TWW would have been the most combative forum against you but god damn. That one has some gems.

2/26/2018 9:54:16 PM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

^^
it's not called draft bernie anymore

2/26/2018 10:28:08 PM

dtownral
All American
23582 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"I found a thread about this on a green party board. They were all talking like me. "


WOW, SHOCKER OF THE CENTURY

2/27/2018 8:11:30 AM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

i want to respond to all of these dumb quotes individually but it's not worth the time

2/27/2018 10:54:04 AM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

Well now theres 495 responses so I can't even read all of them.

The main difference between TWW and other boards is that people on TWW are largely incapable of explaining their positions and discussions break down when anyone strays away from commonly identified talking points.

there its like i planted a seed and came back to a jungle. here i plant a seed and come back to a sprout that has been stepped on

[Edited on March 2, 2018 at 6:54 PM. Reason : seed analogy]

3/2/2018 6:53:13 PM

Exiled
Eyes up here ^^
5720 Posts
user info
edit post



[Edited on March 5, 2018 at 8:40 AM. Reason : ]

3/5/2018 8:39:51 AM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
48629 Posts
user info
edit post

He’s right but not for the reason he thinks. It’s probably been since 2013-14 since I’ve logged in to TWW on a computer. I use my phone which just isn’t conducive to sending long, nuanced posts. That isn’t going to change anytime soon.

3/5/2018 8:46:03 AM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

Part of the reason is because we've been through all the talking points and we know where most people stand. And you learn who wants meaningful discussion and who just wants to be right.

3/5/2018 11:01:51 AM

Cherokee
All American
7936 Posts
user info
edit post

^

3/5/2018 8:56:32 PM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

^^That reads to me like a bunch of people who already have their minds made up before a new discussion even comes up.

I always just want to learn how people think. There is no right and wrong in that. When people refuse to explain their positions it leaves me to have to fill in the blanks. It makes me think they are insecure about their reasoning or just don't have it because they memorized someone else's talking points.

I'm not at all concerned about whose assumptions are "right" because I already know its wrong to assume why people post a certain opinion. I'd rather just do the research and find out directly from the source.

3/6/2018 12:34:59 AM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

You’re right.

Also btw I’m meeting Nick Brana on Friday, any questions you’d like answered?

3/6/2018 12:41:03 AM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

Yeah his whole reasoning for not joining the green party was based around Bernie but that was a long time ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO4BurdExKw

What is his reasoning and or backup plan if this isn't centered around bernie?


How does he plan to attract conservatives? What are his conservative-friendly alternatives to policies that make the green party too "far left"?

3/6/2018 1:03:46 AM

dtownral
All American
23582 Posts
user info
edit post

candidate filing ended recently for NC, how many greens are running?

3/6/2018 9:20:59 AM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"What is his reasoning and or backup plan if this isn't centered around bernie?"


1. Greens haven't been able to win elections, apart from small local positions.
2. The Green party has a lot of internal turmoil, and hasn't been receptive to progressives taking over their party. (Green Party national leadership, on the other hand, has shown willingness to work with MPP)
3. Words like "Socialist" and "Green" are already politically charged and can turn people away before you even make a pitch.

Brana also wrote this article before the election, just FYI

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/as-our-revolutions-former-electoral-manager-this_us_582103a6e4b0334571e0a08c

And it isn't centered around Bernie anymore. Brana left Our Revolution, along with 7 other staffers, when Jeff Weaver was appointed President. They didn't agree with making the organization a 501(c)(4). Weaver wanted to take large donations from billionaires like Tom Steyer and funnel them into TV ads, and Bernie approved all of this at the time. I doubt he's coming on board.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/05/13/what-is-a-501c4-anyway/?utm_term=.24188746822f

The goal is to build strong local chapters over the next year and elect local, possibly state, candidates. It's still early in the process, so I don't know a lot.

Quote :
"How does he plan to attract conservatives? What are his conservative-friendly alternatives to policies that make the green party too "far left"?"


Didn't get to ask about this, but IMO it could be done by pitching "socialist" ideas as fiscally conservative. Single payer costs less overall. War is expensive and doesn't benefit workers. Building infrastructure makes it easier for people to work. Etc. Additionally, avoid attacking working people on the right, and focus criticism on the powerful.

3/12/2018 12:05:10 PM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"pitching "socialist" ideas as fiscally conservative"


Here is a good article on this topic

https://jacobinmag.com/2017/03/fiscal-conservative-social-services-austerity-save-money

Quote :
"There is a well-known theory of economics related to us by Terry Pratchett in his book Men at Arms, through a character named Vimes. The theory is basically that being poor is more expensive than being rich.

"Take boots, for example. [Vimes] earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was … on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet."

Fiscal conservatism is trying to get us to buy the cheap boots — and doing so causes us to spend more money than if we had just bought the good boots in the first place.

Many social programs that fiscal conservatives advocate cutting have been shown to actually save the government money in the long run."

3/14/2018 1:28:50 PM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"candidate filing ended recently for NC, how many greens are running?"

I don't follow backwards NC politics but I'd assume 0 since they don't even have democracy in that state.
Quote :
"3. Words like "Socialist" and "Green" are already politically charged and can turn people away before you even make a pitch."

point 1 applies to any party not democrat or republican and will apply to any new party for a while. point 2 applies to any party ever. Point 3 is true but you also contradict it by saying you will sell socialist and green ideas to people by simply calling them conservative. If they are truly turned away by the words socialist and green then they will be savvy enough to be turned away when you try to trick them into thinking the ideas aren't socialist or green just because the ideas are also fiscally conservative.

Quote :
"Didn't get to ask about this, but IMO it could be done by pitching "socialist" ideas as fiscally conservative. Single payer costs less overall. War is expensive and doesn't benefit workers. Building infrastructure makes it easier for people to work. Etc. Additionally, avoid attacking working people on the right, and focus criticism on the powerful."

THATS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF SOCIALISM IN THE FIRST PLACE. You think you are the first generation to realize its cheaper to run a government that serves the needs of the people instead of padding the pockets of a few? Of course its not attacking "working people" and of course it is attacking "the right".

I'll tell you that people who are truly fiscally conservative already agree that socialism is a great idea in theory but the problem is that you have to entrust a government to effectively carry it out which they believe is impossible. They feel that way because liberals have been so corrupt and always come up with fake solutions like obamacare that get inaccurately labeled as failed examples of socialism. Democrats have been so consistently dishonest that they think its the only way a government can function.

This is why its so important to keep pure and not to let anyone co-opt the progressive movement further. The green party didn't do that damage, democrats did by making great speeches about how everyone deserves good healthcare while working on the best deal for the industry they were taking payments from.

Playing with words isn't going to get anything done. It sounds very democrat of you to think about how words poll and that you will just change the words to win people over. It may win single elections, but it won't lead to long-term political success.

Quote :
"The theory is basically that being poor is more expensive than being rich."

This is so obvious that most conservatives would acknowledge it but say that the government has no place in trying to make it "fair". I know that is not a direct analogy but in terms of health insurance, they would say that the government shouldn't be buying cheap boots or any boots for that matter and that the cheapest thing would be for the government to be smaller by not buying boots at all. It would be a lot cheaper to let everyone buy their own boots and if they can't afford boots, well that is their fault and they have to go barefoot. Personal responsibility.

Stop trying to trick people with marketing gimmicks and commit to your actual values. There are enough people in the silent majority who are inherently aligned with progressive values. You don't need to try to convert conservatives, you just have to convince the silent majority that you are genuine and not just another politician playing with words.

A party movement whose goal is to please everyone and step on no ones toes is just DNC 2.0


[Edited on March 16, 2018 at 2:07 AM. Reason : first time i can remember being mad about something posted on tww]

[Edited on March 16, 2018 at 2:10 AM. Reason : willingness to compromise bleeds into willingness to become compromised. ]

3/16/2018 2:05:33 AM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

it's not compromising anything to co-opt the phrase "fiscally conservative". it's the truth. and your take on this is confusing because you see things from the other side better than most leftists. nothing wrong with a solid messaging campaign that speaks to the entire working class.

also, again, the green party leadership is on board so...

[Edited on March 16, 2018 at 11:13 AM. Reason : .]

3/16/2018 11:06:23 AM

adultswim
All American
8209 Posts
user info
edit post

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/16/corporate-media-oligarchy-bernie-sanders

very good piece by bernie today

3/16/2018 11:43:45 AM

beatsunc
All American
9885 Posts
user info
edit post

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-bernie-sanders-job-guarantee-20180425-story.html

this plan is horrible idea on many levels

4/25/2018 7:28:17 PM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

guaranteed education creates jobs while decreasing dependence and increasing efficiency all at the same time. i don't understand why we wouldn't guarantee job TRAINING first and see how well that works.

4/25/2018 8:09:14 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
14170 Posts
user info
edit post

I saw a Bernie 2020 decal for the first time today. As much as he embodies just about everything I politically believe, I don't think he should run again. Instead he should line up a candidate he can throw all of his supporters to who would embody his ideologies...use his personality to build support for a campaign without having to be the face of it.

4/26/2018 1:27:58 AM

tulsigabbard
Suspended
2953 Posts
user info
edit post

thats what he did last time

4/26/2018 7:50:33 PM

bdmazur
California Dreamin'
14170 Posts
user info
edit post

^I must have imagined all those primary campaigns and debates.

4/27/2018 1:45:05 AM

 Message Boards » The Soap Box » Bernie 2016 Page 1 ... 26 27 28 29 [30] 31, Prev Next  
go to top | |
Admin Options : move topic | lock topic

© 2018 by The Wolf Web - All Rights Reserved.
The material located at this site is not endorsed, sponsored or provided by or on behalf of North Carolina State University.
Powered by CrazyWeb v2.37 - our disclaimer.