woops

11/24/2015 9:59:34 AM

behind enemy lines 2

11/24/2015 10:03:04 AM

11/24/2015 10:06:28 AM

well, consider that a warning shot before christmas, since they've just barely survived the thanksgiving holocaust. you bitches better serve ham next time.

11/24/2015 10:27:54 AM

This could get interesting... None of them in really good ways.

11/24/2015 10:35:09 AM

11/24/2015 10:57:00 AM

11/24/2015 11:13:14 AM

lol i know... they did a good chop job

11/24/2015 11:20:36 AM

11/24/2015 12:20:17 PM

Well, at least Russian and Turkey don't have several centuries of historical rivalry that might cause an otherwise manageable wartime incident to blow up into something really bad.

11/24/2015 12:22:31 PM

More impressed that they got that Mi-8 while on the ground with the TOW launcher. Not sure where the Hind was to defend them, but they should have had CAS.

11/24/2015 2:07:50 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hollande-obama-meeting-to-focus-on-bolstering-fight-against-islamic-state/2015/11/24/19877110-92b9-11e5-a2d6-f57908580b1f_story.html

Obama: Turkey has the right to defend its airspace

OH SNAP

11/24/2015 2:08:53 PM

^^it was an f-16 (tomcat?) air to air shoot down.

11/24/2015 3:11:36 PM

one pilot killed by US-supported rebels. other still missing.

US-supported rebels also destroyed a Russian helicopter which made an emergency landing, crew escaped.

Quote :

"BEIRUT, Lebanon: One Russian pilot of a warplane downed by Turkey over Syria on Tuesday was killed by rebels and the second is missing after they both parachuted, rebel and opposition sources said. A Russian helicopter was also blown up by rebels following an emergency landing in government-held territory after it was damaged by rebel fire, but its crew was able to escape, a monitor said. The sources told AFP that the first pilot of the downed warplane was killed by opposition forces who shot at him as he landed after ejecting."

11/24/2015 3:23:37 PM

Quote :

"^^it was an f-16 (tomcat?) air to air shoot down."

Wrong, try again. First off the Fencer was an AA shootdown by an F-16 Falcon, not a Tomcat. That is nothing crazy there.

What surprised me was that they used an optically guided antitank missile to destroy the Mi-8 helicopter. Not sure what forced the -8 down in the first place, but the video clearly shows them setting up the launcher and destroying it while it sits across the valley. That and having multiple camera angles setup as they did is pretty impressive for a bunch of "rebels".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IschF-ihjS0&feature=youtu.be

11/24/2015 3:40:09 PM

Quote :

"^^it was an f-16 (tomcat?) air to air shoot down."

Fighting Falcon. F-14 is the Tomcat

11/24/2015 3:40:46 PM

there seems to be a lot of debate about Turkey buying crude oil from ISIS. Russian jets were bombing them.

11/24/2015 3:47:30 PM

this is very syrias.

11/24/2015 4:38:43 PM

Putin knows his guys must have been taunting the Turks. Is there any reason for a jet to fly within a mile of another country's airspace? My arm chairing makes me think there's no real rationale other than trying to be a douche.

11/24/2015 6:17:42 PM

Russian forces are attacking Turkmen, who are Turkish Syrians living obviously close to the Turkish border. They are fighting against Assad, and Russia's primary interest in the area is the Assad regime. Unfortunately with the current Russian stance, they are bombing all of these "rebel" groups. Turkey supports their brethren Turkmen and don't like the border incursions by Russia. So after days and weeks of threats, including shooting down a Russian UAV, Turkey finally took action.

11/24/2015 6:26:55 PM

don't understand why people fight over a shit hole place. but whatever.

11/24/2015 6:57:13 PM

don't the turkeys know that thanksgiving is an american holiday?

stupid birds.

11/24/2015 7:08:34 PM

Quote :

"Well, at least Russian and Turkey don't have several centuries of historical rivalry ..."

You are joking, right?

PS Sorry, my sarc monitor must have been turned off.

[Edited on November 24, 2015 at 7:48 PM. Reason : my bad]

11/24/2015 7:40:55 PM

shit loads of details and pics, as well as a couple of videos

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3332790/Monstrous-new-crisis-Russia-s-downed-jet-Putin-s-fury-stab-terror-accomplices-Moscow-analyst-warns-war-likely-Moscow-analyst.html

- russia deploying warship to mediterranean and warns of "serious consequences"
- russia denies jet was in turkish airspace
- turkey releases radar showing flight path of jet
- NATO sec-gen agrees with turkey that it *was* in turkish space
- UK has 12 typhoons on standby in case turkey requests assistance
- UK defense official says any future intruding jets could be shot down by typhoons!!!
- destroyed helicopter was sent by russia to rescue jet pilots

11/25/2015 5:57:41 AM

So this gonna be the franz ferdinand of 2015 or nah?

11/25/2015 9:39:09 AM

^ nah... putin is not stupid. nato and UK have said they will defend turkey if it is attacked.

what putin has definitely been up to today is bombing the ethnic turkish Turkmen who live in syria next to the border, the ones who shot at the parachuting pilots and killed one of them.

2nd pilot rescued by assad's and putin's forces. 'tis a miracle!

also, heavy protests outside turkish embassy in moscow, with rocks/eggs thrown through the window panes.

Quote :

"Putin takes his revenge: Russia unleashes heavy bombardment on region held by Turkmen rebels who chanted ‘Allahu Akbar’ over the dead body of pilot shot down by Turkish F-16 - Russia has retaliated against rebel forces who 'shot and killed' one of the pilots of the jet downed by Turkey - One of the two pilots of Russian jet downed by Turkey rescued in 12-hour operation and taken to Russian base - Pilot, identified as Cpt Konstantin Murahtin, and fallen co-pilot, Lt. Col. Oleg Peshkov to be given state honours - Audio recording of warnings sent out by Turkey on open channels and confirmed by U.S. military released - Putin called the incident a 'stab in the back by accomplices of terrorists' and accused Turkey of supporting ISIS - NATO chief called for 'diplomacy and de-escalation' after emergency meeting of member nations on Tuesday"

Quote :

"Lavrov told the press conference: 'We have received information that in certain areas of Turkey, where terrorists feel at home, there is even an established market for human organs which are smuggled by terrorists from Syria, and those are body parts of the murdered Syrians.' He added that 'terrorists' have used Turkish territory to prepare attacks in other countries, but did not name specific groups or attacks."

11/25/2015 10:01:29 AM

Quote :

"Is there any reason for a jet to fly within a mile of another country's airspace?"

Yes. We used to do it all the time in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Accidental border incursions happen, too.

It sounds like the Fencer strayed into Turkish airspace, and got warned on guard freq numerous times.I suppose that makes Turkey "not wrong", but it seems like an extremely heavy-handed response to what appears to be a very minor and innocuous incursion. On the other hand, I think the Russians have been either deliberately fucking with Turkey or else just being very cavalier for weeks, now...this was not just getting shot for hanging their toes briefly over the line one time.

It appears that the jet was in Turkish airspace for 30-sec or less, and actually went down in Syria. I'm curious if it got hit in Turkey and they stayed with it for a couple of miles, or if the Turkish Viper(s) fired while the Fencer was in their airspace, but then the Fencer turned and ran for Syria, taking the hit in Syria...or if the Turks just flat-out shot it across the border after it punched their airspace.

I also wonder if they shot it with a Sidewinder or AMRAAM, and from what range/position...

Quote :

"What surprised me was that they used an optically guided antitank missile to destroy the Mi-8 helicopter."

yeah, I mean, you use what you have available. A good TOW-gunner probably has reasonable odds against a hovering or low and very slow helicopter (or certainly a helo on the ground). It's wire-guided; he pretty much just looks through an optical (or maybe thermal?) sight and uses a joystick to keep the crosshairs on what he wants to hit.

Quote :

"(tomcat?) "

Tomcats have been out of service for years, other than a few Iranian ones that are struggling for spare parts.

Quote :

"Not sure where the Hind was to defend them, but they should have had CAS."

Was there a Hind there? I thought I read there were 2x helos; if that's true, and the other one was a Hind, then that's still only 1 to keep eyes and weapons over the whole area.

11/25/2015 10:31:36 AM

Turkey does support isis which highlights the overall theme of our anti shia lean in much the region quite being quite confusing. Its almost as if we want perpetual conflict.

11/25/2015 11:39:19 AM

^^

Quote :

"It appears that the jet was in Turkish airspace for 30-sec or less, and actually went down in Syria. I'm curious if it got hit in Turkey and they stayed with it for a couple of miles, or if the Turkish Viper(s) fired while the Fencer was in their airspace, but then the Fencer turned and ran for Syria, taking the hit in Syria...or if the Turks just flat-out shot it across the border after it punched their airspace."

See the pic I posted a couple of posts above yours. It was in Turkish airspace for 17 seconds only. It was shot in Syrian airspace, according to radar maps supplied by Turkey. Click on link for bigger pics.

11/26/2015 4:10:05 AM

In the spirit of Thanksgiving maybe the Russian president should pardon Turkey..

11/26/2015 10:28:08 AM

11/26/2015 5:20:45 PM

^you know, that made me laugh.

and then i thought about the implications that might happen because of this unforgivable hostile turkish act. days after their stadium cheered through a moment of silence for the paris victims.


but it was still funny, so i laughed again.

11/26/2015 10:19:22 PM

Yep, that one was very nicely done.

Also, when that meteor crashed in Russia, this one gave me a hearty chuckle:

11/26/2015 10:31:20 PM

HA!. top notch.

11/26/2015 10:46:28 PM

Russia has ‘more proof’ ISIS oil routed through Turkey, Erdogan says he’ll resign if it’s true

https://www.rt.com/news/324045-putin-erdogan-su-downing/

Quote :

"Russia has received additional intelligence confirming that oil from deposits controlled by Islamic State is moved through Turkey on an industrial scale, said Vladimir Putin. President Recep Erdogan said he will resign if this is confirmed. Moscow has grounds to suspect that the Su-24 was downed by Turkish jets on November 24 to secure illegal oil deliveries from Syria to Turkey, he said speaking on the sidelines of the climate change summit in Paris on Monday. “At the moment we have received additional information confirming that that oil from the deposits controlled by Islamic State militants enters Turkish territory on industrial scale,” he said. “We have every reason to believe that the decision to down our plane was guided by a desire to ensure security of this oil’s delivery routes to ports where they are shipped in tankers,” Putin said. Speaking in Paris on Monday, President Recep Erdogan said that he will leave office if there is proof of Turkey’s cooperation with IS. “We are not that dishonest as to buy oil from terrorists. If it is proven that we have, in fact, done so, I will leave office. If there is any evidence, let them present it, we’ll consider [it],” he said, as quoted by TASS. The countries from which Turkey buys oil are “well known,” said Erdogan. He called on Russia to comment on the US’ recent black-listing of Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, the World Chess Federation President, accusing him of “materially assisting and acting for or on behalf of the Government of Syria.” Erdogan alleged Ilyumzhinov had been dealing with Islamic State oil."

[Edited on November 30, 2015 at 8:20 PM. Reason : ]

11/30/2015 8:19:46 PM

rt.com

11/30/2015 8:24:35 PM

that doesn't change what putin and erdogan said

11/30/2015 9:18:58 PM

is it not widely accepted that turkey has been complicit in ISIS's rise? they've allowed their borders to be a pass-through. and of course they've allowed oil through

11/30/2015 11:32:08 PM

^ about the oil, yeah i have heard that too, but is there any evidence???

12/1/2015 12:41:53 AM

Quote :

"What surprised me was that they used an optically guided antitank missile to destroy the Mi-8 helicopter."

I've played a lot of Battlefield, you can definitely down a helicopter with tow

12/1/2015 12:36:13 PM

http://motherboard.vice.com/en_uk/read/belgian-physicists-calculate-that-everyone-is-lying-about-the-downed-russian-jet

Belgian Physicists Calculate that Everyone Is Lying About the Downed Russian Jet

Quote :

"It’s rare to see physics being used as an effective tool to comment on current events, but astrophysicists Tom van Doorsslaere and Giovanni Lapenta of the Belgian KU Leuven used some simple Newtonian mechanics to show that both the Russian and Turkish accounts of what happened with the downed jet can’t be right."

Click to read on.

12/1/2015 4:47:13 PM

Is that how links work?

12/1/2015 5:41:27 PM

Usually, but not always!

12/1/2015 5:55:12 PM

^^^

Quote :

"Because the vertical movement is only dependent on gravity (g=9.81m/s², z=gt²/2)"

What the fuck sort of assumption is that? That's ignoring air resistance (very significant when you're moving hundreds of knots), ignoring lift generated by the wings, ignoring possible thrust still being put out by the engines, assuming that the aircraft was in level flight before being impacted by the missile, and assuming that it immediately started on a constant downward trajectory when it was hit.

Those assumptions are fucking ridiculous.

Quote :

"On the Russian map, it can be seen that the plane makes a ninety degree turn after it was hit, which is quite impossible. According to the physicists, the only way this could be achieved is if the momentum of the incoming rocket was so much larger than the momentum of the jet that the latter would be negligible. "

I don't even know what they're getting at here. I don't see any reason at all that it is necessarily impossible to make a 90-degree turn in a damaged airplane, especially if you allow that the turn isn't necessarily controlled or intentional.

Hell, for that matter, what makes us sure that the 90-degree turn was after the missile impact, and not just before?

The Turkish and Russian stories might be invalid, but these "physicists" haven't proven shit, as far as I'm concerned, as a mechanical engineer and jet aviator.

12/1/2015 10:34:59 PM

It seems they're assuming that aircraft turn into rocks on ballistic trajectories in the vicinity of missiles.

12/3/2015 4:42:58 PM

exactly

and hell, you can't ignore air resistance at 500 knots or whatever even if it's a rock.

12/3/2015 6:48:38 PM