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 Message Boards » » President Trump credibility watch Page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 ... 191, Prev Next  
adultswim
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I fully support Trump keeping an open mind and compromising.

11/11/2016 5:28:12 PM

adultswim
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ps. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

11/11/2016 5:59:59 PM

moron
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Quote :
"Mr. Trump said Friday that, after talking with President Obama this week, he might be willing to leave in place parts of the Affordable Care Act once he’s in office.
...
Mr. Trump said he told the president that he would consider keeping two provisions of the law: the prohibition against insurers denying coverage because of a patient’s pre-existing condition; and the one that allows parents to keep their children on their insurance plans until they turn 26."


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/us/politics/donald-trump-transition.html

The implication here is that Trump was not aware of these things before...? I can easily believe he was ignorant of this fact.

But the provision to require coverage of pre-existing conditions is the keystone that the entire rest of the law rests upon.

If you keep this provision, you're keeping 80% of the rest of the law-- health insurance can't be profitable when you're actually caring for sick people.

Realistically, the only thing that will reduce premiums for most people is to put old/sick people into a government subsidized plan, drop the provision fixing rates for old people to a factor of young people, and we could reasonably drop the individual mandate since studies show people are motivated to get healthcare on their own (when it's reasonable).

People would riot if the GOP got rid of the requirement for coverage of preexisting conditions, but the entire rest of the law exists to prop up this single item.

11/11/2016 6:09:41 PM

adultswim
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^
http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=644950&page=7#16259947

Quote :
"Republicans could close the medicaid gap, remove the individual mandate, change the full-time working hours back to 40, allow an exemption for young workers covered by a school or parent's plan, all of which they can market as fixing Obama's shoddy work, but repealing the law would just make things worse at this point."


Why change your mind now?

Quote :
"The implication here is that Trump was not aware of these things before...? I can easily believe he was ignorant of this fact."


Or he was campaigning.

I really hate to have to defend Donald Trump, but can we please give him a fair shake? It's better for all of us if we can keep him open-minded.

[Edited on November 11, 2016 at 6:30 PM. Reason : .]

11/11/2016 6:18:50 PM

Big4Country
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Quote :
"The implication here is that Trump was not aware of these things before...? I can easily believe he was ignorant of this fact.

But the provision to require coverage of pre-existing conditions is the keystone that the entire rest of the law rests upon.

If you keep this provision, you're keeping 80% of the rest of the law-- health insurance can't be profitable when you're actually caring for sick people.

Realistically, the only thing that will reduce premiums for most people is to put old/sick people into a government subsidized plan, drop the provision fixing rates for old people to a factor of young people, and we could reasonably drop the individual mandate since studies show people are motivated to get healthcare on their own (when it's reasonable).

People would riot if the GOP got rid of the requirement for coverage of preexisting conditions, but the entire rest of the law exists to prop up this single item."


Everyone on all sides is cool with the pre-existing conditions part of the law. That's the problem with it though. The ultimate question is how do you lower people's own costs when no one can be denied coverage? Allowing people to buy across state lines may help. It sounds like that is one of the things they want to do.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/health-care/

11/11/2016 7:15:01 PM

JT3bucky
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What's the issue with setting it up like Auto insurance?

Why can't that be a system to look into.

11/11/2016 7:21:46 PM

The E Man
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Its a shame we are the pioneers of this strange concept of healthcare. If only there were other countries who accomplish successful healthcare systems that we could look to...

11/11/2016 7:38:28 PM

moron
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^^^^
HMmm I'm expressing the same sentiment in both cases. I've been a proponent of fixing the law for a while now.

It's just sad/funny that GOP has been calling for repeal when anything they replace it with would be 80% similar because of the need to cover preexisting conditions.

11/11/2016 7:49:48 PM

Dentaldamn
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This is so stupid. The entire ACA rests on the pre-existing conditions part.

If you insure people who have awful shit wrong with them PRICES GO UP! It's not fucking rocket science. Also plenty of young people didn't buy in bc they are ducking stupid and if they get a tumor they can just buy insurance with no consequences.

Serious this is retarded

11/11/2016 8:08:34 PM

OopsPowSrprs
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Now Newt's saying Trump won't even try to get Mexico to pay for a wall.

All of your retarded dreams are getting crushed

11/11/2016 8:27:21 PM

Dentaldamn
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The guy isn't even in office and he's already fucking up.

11/11/2016 8:39:08 PM

UJustWait84
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I'm tempted to spot him a credibility point for removing Christie from his leadership, but so far it means nothing since he's handing it over to Pence.

Yup, never mind. He's there along with other GOP big shots as a vice chair of his transition team.

[Edited on November 11, 2016 at 9:11 PM. Reason : .]

11/11/2016 9:05:57 PM

Shrike
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There's a reason why every time the Republicans made a good faith effort to create a replacement for Obamacare, it looked exactly like Obamacare with slightly less regulation of the health insurance industry. That's why they stopped trying and just passed a bunch one line "Repeal the ACA" bills. You can't do it. You can either just get rid of it, throw 20 million people off their health insurance, and go back to the old system. Or, single payer.

11/11/2016 10:11:56 PM

JesusHChrist
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Matt Taibbi sums it up:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/president-trump-how-america-got-it-so-wrong-w449783

11/11/2016 11:15:48 PM

NyM410
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"Now Newt's saying Trump won't even try to get Mexico to pay for a wall.

All of your retarded dreams are getting crushed"


This is good though. The campaign was just a game he wanted to win. I hope he is actually pretty moderate as is history shows.

His campaign rhetoric was dangerous, brought out the worst underbelly of society and should be highly criticized though.

11/12/2016 8:30:49 AM

Big4Country
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Quote :
"If you insure people who have awful shit wrong with them PRICES GO UP! It's not fucking rocket science. Also plenty of young people didn't buy in bc they are ducking stupid and if they get a tumor they can just buy insurance with no consequences. "


Can't you only sign up during open enrollment?

11/12/2016 10:06:31 AM

JesusHChrist
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^^I see you're still at the bargaining stage of grief.

I, myself, am at depression.

But just look at the team he is assembling. He ain't gonna be no moderate.

11/12/2016 11:27:19 AM

Dentaldamn
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^^ open enrollment is from Nov 1st to Jan 31st and there are numerous ways to purchase outside of this window.

But I see zero way you can allow people with pre-existing conditions to buy insurance without forcing everyone to purchase insurance. One of the issues now is so many young people are not signing up and causing part of the fuck up. If you allow pre-existing conditions AND don't force people to sign up....that sounds like a fucking disaster

11/12/2016 12:11:42 PM

Shrike
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And if you force everyone to buy insurance then you have to subsidize for those you can't afford the premiums. And if you subsidize it for those who can't afford the premiums then you have to regulate the coverage itself so you aren't spending taxpayer dollars on shit. This is the exact dilemma Republicans ran into when trying to craft a replacement. It can't be done.

11/12/2016 12:29:21 PM

Wolfman Tim
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Quote :
"I hope he is actually pretty moderate as is history shows."


The problem is, if he is too moderate, Congress would just impeach him to get Pence.

11/12/2016 12:29:52 PM

Dentaldamn
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Also wouldn't letting adults up to 26 be on their parents insurance cut out huge potential revenue?

11/12/2016 12:40:15 PM

beatsunc
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just correctly say its a state issue and repeal obamacare. done.

11/13/2016 7:54:26 AM

BanjoMan
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I actually don't mind repealing Roe v Wade and giving it to the states.

If girls don't want to have babies, then don't have unprotected sex. Same for guys. But, having it legal in certain states will make it possible for the girls that were raped or are having a troubling pregnancy to legally seek out abortion.



[Edited on November 13, 2016 at 8:51 AM. Reason : a]

11/13/2016 8:49:30 AM

Dentaldamn
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that is a stupid thing to think.

11/13/2016 8:53:17 AM

BanjoMan
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which part?

[Edited on November 13, 2016 at 10:07 AM. Reason : a]

11/13/2016 10:06:55 AM

Dentaldamn
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Repealing roe v wade and putting it in the hands of the states.

Also the sentence "if girls don't want to have babies, then don't have unprotected sex". That's just a stupid sentence that oversimplifies the entire situation.

11/13/2016 10:43:01 AM

BEU
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^agreed

11/13/2016 10:59:11 AM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"which part?"


every single word of it.

11/13/2016 11:01:52 AM

moron
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Quote :
"But I see zero way you can allow people with pre-existing conditions to buy insurance without forcing everyone to purchase insurance. "


Heavily government subsidized risk pool or insurance for the sickest people.

11/13/2016 11:27:14 AM

NeuseRvrRat
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it's not insurance if it's for a pre-existing condition, it's a subsidy

11/13/2016 11:56:12 AM

BanjoMan
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I'm sorry, but I think that there is a large portion of the liberal population that refuses to admit that abortion is viewed as a safe back-up for "forgetting" to take birth control seriously. That shit has to stop.

When I was 29 and my wife got pregnant, I can't tell you how many of my friends in grad school came to me saying that I should just get her to have an abortion... because that is what they did.

And what she experienced was even more astonishing, many of her friends came up to her to talk about pregnancy and ended up admitting that they had an abortion in college and are afraid to talk about it. And they were not raped, they just were not on birth control.

So, I totally understand women that were raped or have a terrible health situation and seek out an abortion, that seems like a logical and responsible thing to do. However, abortion as a practice is being massively abused by people that just don't plan their birth control responsibly.

And, for you to just blatantly call that a dumb notion without having any idea about what you are talking about is incredibly ignorant.


[Edited on November 13, 2016 at 12:24 PM. Reason : a]

11/13/2016 12:23:33 PM

NyM410
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Humans are animals programmed to reproduce. It's why abstinence only sex-ed is and has been a total and complete failure. It's why Catholic priests have been fucking children for decades.

Taking away access to safe abortion would be a HORRIBLE regressive idea.

Not to be harsh but your anecdotal evidence really means nothing.

[Edited on November 13, 2016 at 1:23 PM. Reason : X]

11/13/2016 1:23:18 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"However, abortion as a practice is being massively abused by people that just don't plan their birth control responsibly. "


Do you have a statistic to support this claim? If it were true, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing a pretty sharp decline in the birthrate.

11/13/2016 1:25:29 PM

BanjoMan
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so, it's ok for people to rely on the fact that they can just abort a fetus if they get drunk and have sex without protection?

I am sorry about bringing up this damn topic. I am actually a pro-choice person, but this shit is being abused and pro-choice people refuse to address that fact. Maybe, having it left up to the states would encourage people to be more responsible about birth control.

11/13/2016 1:28:18 PM

UJustWait84
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You made up an absolutely ridiculous claim without any proof and you're wondering why we're calling you out on it?

Quote :
"so, it's ok for people to rely on the fact that they can just abort a fetus if they get drunk and have sex without protection?"


Who the fuck are you to judge other people and try to make decisions about their lives for them? Just say you're a Christian or whatever and hide behind the Bible- it works well enough.

[Edited on November 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2016 1:30:48 PM

BanjoMan
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^^^ that is a poor scientific analysis. If the system is being abused, as I have suggested, then that applies that people that would normally be cautious about having a kid become indifferent and reckless with pregnancy.

I think that you are just afraid of acknowledging an actual possibility.

[Edited on November 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM. Reason : a]

11/13/2016 1:31:20 PM

UJustWait84
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I know a chick who's had SIX fucking abortions. She's not the brightest crayon in the box. Would you want someone like that raising children and living off the dole? I sure don't.

11/13/2016 1:33:45 PM

BanjoMan
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Bro, I know two dudes with Ph.Ds that have had girlfriends have a chemical abortion because they did not want to get married before 33. You pretending that it is just poor dumb ppl that are abusing the system is just as bad as conservatives blaming welfare on minorities.



[Edited on November 13, 2016 at 1:41 PM. Reason : a]

11/13/2016 1:39:02 PM

Dentaldamn
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If you think aborting a fetus is the same as killing a 2 year old, I can understand the religious thought process.

If you don't think this then mind your own fucking business. Why does it effect you?

11/13/2016 1:44:03 PM

BanjoMan
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let's try to get back to the point. He isn't saying ban all abortions. He saying that we should perhaps put it in the hands of state law.

If that is what it turns out to be, then I would sign off on that. I would not, however, agree with a complete ban.

[Edited on November 13, 2016 at 1:51 PM. Reason : a]

11/13/2016 1:50:37 PM

Dentaldamn
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And again I think that is a stupid idea.

11/13/2016 1:56:07 PM

d357r0y3r
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Quote :
"And again I think that is a stupid idea."


Why do you think your opinion should override the popular opinion of an individual state? If 80% of people in a state want abortion to be illegal, why is it your right to tell them to fuck off?

11/13/2016 2:17:23 PM

Dentaldamn
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If we used that line of thinking the country as we know it would cease to exist.

11/13/2016 2:21:46 PM

UJustWait84
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people seem to conflate personal/religious values with fundamental human rights. They're aren't the same.

11/13/2016 2:23:00 PM

d357r0y3r
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Quote :
"If we used that line of thinking the country as we know it would cease to exist."


Well, I can't argue with you there. The country as we know it just elected Donald Trump, so maybe it is worth thinking about other ways to do things.

Quote :
"people seem to conflate personal/religious values with fundamental human rights. They're aren't the same."


The distinction is completely arbitrary. These fundamental human rights that you talk about weren't respected by anyone at some points in history. There are many countries today that don't respect these supposed rights, and we're not invading them to get them to conform because we respect their sovereignty.

11/13/2016 2:25:59 PM

UJustWait84
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Well, they aren't completely arbitrary given that they're guaranteed by the US Constitution. Given who the US just elected as president, it will be easier for anti-abortion and anti-LGBT and anti-illegal immigrant voters to redefine these "rights". All that needs to be done is have the GOP appoint regressive SCOTUS justices to reinterpret the Constitution and have both houses of congress ram through legislation that change the laws to suit their constituents "values." So you're well on your way already.

[Edited on November 13, 2016 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2016 2:32:22 PM

OopsPowSrprs
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The GOP controls enough state legislatures that they could just change the Constitution to whatever they wanted.

[Edited on November 13, 2016 at 2:41 PM. Reason : That's how shitty and weak the Dems have been.]

11/13/2016 2:40:43 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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Why should a woman who has been raped have to travel to another state to have an abortion?

11/13/2016 2:51:42 PM

BanjoMan
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Quote :
"people seem to conflate personal/religious values with fundamental human rights. They're aren't the same."


I am not a religious person.

Abortion rights need to be re-examined.

It is the exact same as conservatives and guns. People don't want to budge just one little bit because they are afraid of a flood, but both issues need adjustments and compromises. In fact, I don't understand why politicians don't push for a quid pro quo when it comes to guns and abortions.


[Edited on November 13, 2016 at 3:01 PM. Reason : a]

11/13/2016 2:55:27 PM

UJustWait84
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LOL. There isn't an "abortion epidemic" in this country. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

11/13/2016 3:02:05 PM

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