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 Message Boards » » 2020 Democrat Primaries Page 1 ... 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 19, Prev Next  
GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"The Republican I was responding to did, and he has consistently claimed in this thread and others that he believes that HE is the political center of the current Democratic Party"


You talking about me here?

1) I most definitely did not assert that most Democrats are Republicans. I asserted that most Democrats think John McCain was an alright guy. This is certainly true now, since Trump keeps talking shit about him.
2) I have never claimed to be the political center of anything, least of all the Democratic party. I am, however, representative of a non-negligible faction within the party, one which includes former Republicans who have felt their political views move to the left, felt alarm at Republican views moving more to the right, or both. For me, it was both.

Quote :
"I mean, it is really quite amazing that so many people who are new to the Democratic Party feel the obligation to dictate the terms on how the party should operate."


Uh...sorry? Don't know what to tell you, man. Them's the rules. I get to vote in primaries just like you do. If you want to call that "dictating terms," then there's not much left to say.

How the hell am I demanding anything? When have I commanded you to "fall in line?" Answer: I haven't. I've said which candidates I liked and didn't like and said why. Which is a pretty normal thing to do, when you think about it.

And this notion you seem to have that all Democrats were leftists until Republicans and independents started coming over is laughable. There are plenty of lifelong moderate Democrats who wish you would shut up, because the policies you support (to the extent that you have elaborated them at all) are too radical for them, and because your manner of supporting them is distasteful.

For example, you've spent several pages trying to tell a guy on a public forum that he's not allowed to comment on the processes of an open political party of which he is a member.

[Edited on April 9, 2019 at 7:46 AM. Reason : ]

4/9/2019 7:38:54 AM

dtownral
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Quote :
"Don't think anyone has asserted that."

he did, his statement implies most democrats are either old republicans like him or have old republican views like him

the party should not give a fuck about those people, it's a losing strategy that will only pull the party right.

Quote :
"If MOST Democrats are simply old school Republicans, then the party is not worth saving.

It's not asking too much of the party to represent the ideological vision of its base. If the party makes the determination that it's core constituency is mostly made up of former Republicans, then the party is damaged beyond repair."


[Edited on April 9, 2019 at 9:02 AM. Reason : .]

4/9/2019 8:59:54 AM

NyM410
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My expert 30,000 foot analysis is that a lot of the people I look to in order to take the opposite position seems shook by Mayor Pete.

4/9/2019 9:43:52 AM

rwoody
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^^interesting strategy to just restate your obviously wrong premise

4/9/2019 9:53:21 AM

dtownral
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^^ as in leftists aren't happy with him?

4/9/2019 10:20:20 AM

NyM410
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No, not at all. Mostly the evangelicals like Chuck Todd’s civility guru Erick Erickson.

4/9/2019 10:28:41 AM

dtownral
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oh yeah, they got very triggered but his "attack" on mike pence

4/9/2019 10:39:50 AM

synapse
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Quote :
"he did, his statement implies most democrats are either old republicans like him or have old republican views like him"


Nope, it doesn't. He was clearly saying that most Democrats were at least pretty ok with John McCain.

4/9/2019 8:26:15 PM

bdmazur
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I was ok with McCain in 2000. I was not in 2008.

4/9/2019 9:20:16 PM

theDuke866
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McCain 2000 was my guy. McCain '08...I still had respect for him, but couldn't vote for him.

4/9/2019 11:47:44 PM

rwoody
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I think so far only Sanders, Warren and Castro have come out with strong statements of support for Omar. Seems like it should be a pretty low bar to clear...

[Edited on April 13, 2019 at 12:05 AM. Reason : Crickets from Pelosi and Schumer ]

4/13/2019 12:05:29 AM

synapse
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That's not my litmus test.

4/13/2019 2:32:35 AM

dtownral
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The president politicizing 9/11 and spreading anti-Muslim hate mongering is okay with synapse

4/13/2019 10:05:25 AM

synapse
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Sweet strawman Guth.

4/13/2019 10:59:05 AM

dtownral
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Weak as fuck statement by Pelosi:

The memory of 9/11 is sacred ground, and any discussion of it must be done with reverence. The President shouldn’t use the painful images of 9/11 for a political attack.

The candidates should all be able to do a better job

4/13/2019 12:28:52 PM

rwoody
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Bernie last night
Quote :
"Ilhan Omar is a leader with strength and courage. She won't back down to Trump's racism and hate, and neither will we. The disgusting and dangerous attacks against her must end."


Castro
Quote :
"I am grateful for @IlhanMN's courage and leadership and I stand with her - and with others targeted by the President's anti-Muslim rhetoric."


Warren
Quote :
"The President is inciting violence against a sitting Congresswoman—and an entire group of Americans based on their religion. It's disgusting. It's shameful. And any elected leader who refuses to condemn it shares responsibility for it."



Looks like Beto has come out stronger today after this weak sauce last night
Quote :
"We are stronger than this president’s hatred and Islamophobia. Do not let him drive us apart or make us afraid."

4/13/2019 1:51:18 PM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"I think so far only Sanders, Warren and Castro have come out with strong statements of support for Omar."


I don't really care if they support Omar, whose string of ill-conceived (even if well-intentioned) remarks have made her a politically liability not worth her half-baked policy ideas. But I agree there should be more vocal condemnation of Trump and other Republicans for their attacks, which aren't even bothering to dog-whistle now and which I am sincerely concerned will lead to violent action.

4/13/2019 10:14:42 PM

rwoody
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"political liability", FOH man. Nothing she has said in the last 6 months would be newsworthy if she weren't a black Muslim woman.

Besides a true vocal condemnation requires vocal support of Omar, else you get a milquetoast, bland "we should be nice" statement like Pelosi's or Betos first.

4/13/2019 11:03:47 PM

moron
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^

4/14/2019 2:26:06 AM

HaLo
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Glad to see Trump is winning here

JFC

4/14/2019 9:52:03 AM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"Nothing she has said in the last 6 months would be newsworthy if she weren't a black Muslim"


And?

I largely agree with you - poorly phrased though many of her comments were, they probably wouldn't have gotten the same attention coming from someone else. But how many news cycles have now been dedicated to her remarks, her response to her remarks, the Democratic party's response to her remarks?

Of course, there's plenty of blame to go around. It didn't take Nostradamus to figure out how this was going to go, and both Ilhan and the Democratic leadership should have had better responses prepared.

4/14/2019 10:30:48 AM

dtownral
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her statements and responses have all been fine, she shares no part of the blame

4/14/2019 10:43:06 AM

GrumpyGOP
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Really? Don't think she should have rethought the hypnosis and "all about the Benjamins" references? Because I'm not a guy known for being real self-aware or politically correct, but I think even I would have omitted those particular lines.

4/14/2019 11:09:27 AM

qntmfred
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Andrew Yang has CNN town hall tonight at 7

4/14/2019 11:27:21 AM

dtownral
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^^ no, it was fine

4/14/2019 11:29:42 AM

rwoody
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Quote :
"But how many news cycles have now been dedicated to her remarks, her response to her remarks, the Democratic party's response to her remarks?"


So you admit that she is being treated very unfairly but you still find fault and don't think she deserves defense? What would you have her do, just be quiet?

4/14/2019 2:19:51 PM

moron
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^^^
I haven’t watched the other ones but his is going to be different

4/14/2019 3:18:39 PM

A Tanzarian
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Seeing which Democrat is sufficiently outraged about the rancid bile falling from Trump's piehole seems like a seriously unproductive use of time.

4/14/2019 3:57:29 PM

dtownral
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one of the big thing voters need to know is who is going to stand up to republicans and who is going to take the "high road" to losing

4/14/2019 5:02:00 PM

A Tanzarian
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You stand up to Republicans by beating them at the ballot box with policy. If pointing out Trump's odiousness actually constituted standing up to Republicans, Trump wouldn't be President in the first place.

4/14/2019 11:49:10 PM

dtownral
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because taking the high road worked well last time? voters want to be energized, they want someone who won't back down.

4/15/2019 9:22:28 AM

GrumpyGOP
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Just a reminder, taking the "look at how terrible Donald Trump is" road didn't work out real well last time, either.

4/15/2019 9:49:02 AM

dtownral
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that's not the same as standing up to him, "when they go low, we go high" was a big part of the campaign and instead of addressing and calling out trump directly they just thought they could let everyone see how terrible he was for themselves and did not need to directly respond to so many things. they relied on their press outreach to do the challenging instead, it was a terrible miscalculation.

4/15/2019 10:10:35 AM

bdmazur
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Mayor Pete is now #2 on my list behind Warren. I think he'd make an excellent VP candidate to go up against Pence.

4/15/2019 1:09:07 PM

moron
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Bill Clinton was a huge liability to hilllary in being able to call out trump’s deviant sexual behavior, both guys were known to attend Epstein sex parties.

Hillary had the cloud of the fbi investigation until literally the week before the election. This cancels out any investigation allegations they could have used against trump. The idea of collusion with Russia seemed way too outlandish at the time before we got the details of what trumps people we’re up to.

The majority of white voters don’t care about their representatives being racist, So there was not much ground to be gained here.

Probably the biggest place they dropped the ball was not finding out about trump’s fraudulent tax scheme where they essentially stole money from working class tenants, they let him slide out of showing his tax returns, they let him slide out of explaining melanias immigration lapses by saying he’s release more info “next month”. They let him get away with not having a health plan at al.

Even now there’s too many open trump scandals to even Remember in 1 sitting.

4/15/2019 1:15:29 PM

rwoody
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Those first two points are frankly not great examples. Bill was definitely a liability in many ways, Hilary staying with him was a problem for many reasons, but Trump was out there talking about investigations and Bills sexual history with no worries about hypocrisy. Hilary should have hammered Trump for all of these topics.

4/15/2019 1:39:34 PM

A Tanzarian
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Attacks on Trump should be outsourced to PACs and attack dogs. The candidates themselves should stick with their policy-oriented campaign messaging. To the extent they do attack Trump, it should be brief, direct and then move back to campaign messaging. Days spent condemning Trump's latest outrage isn't going to persuade anyone not already convinced he's a horrible creature doing horrible things. More importantly, it's time not spent pushing Democratic ideas. Don't let Trump control Democratic campaign narratives.

4/15/2019 2:47:47 PM

dtownral
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That's what they already did that we know doesnt work

If AOC can figure out how to attack back and not back down, and still control the narrative and get attention for her policies, then surely experienced politicians can be expected to keep that balance.

[Edited on April 15, 2019 at 3:25 PM. Reason : .]

4/15/2019 3:23:41 PM

NyM410
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https://twitter.com/maddowblog/status/1117969714196688898?s=21

Thank you, Pete. I’m not sure why it took so long for a candidate to finally make the point that all the GOP and media pearl clutching about SCOTUS #s was bad faith.

Ted fucking Cruz said explicitly he would not confirm a Clinton justice.

4/16/2019 7:17:24 AM

rwoody
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I am unwilling to do any research, but there's been tons of talk about SCOTUS by candidates and tons of talk about Republican bad faith arguments, he's the first to mention both?

4/16/2019 7:32:34 AM

dtownral
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finally watching the sanders town hall on fox news, bernie killed it


i think warren has the most substantive progressive platform, but sanders has built himself a strong lead so far

4/16/2019 12:40:45 PM

NyM410
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It’s legit hilarious how out of touch mainstream media (including the news side of Fox News in this) is with actual majority feelings on economic issues.

They act shocked when Bernie’s proposals actually have a lot of support.

4/16/2019 2:05:28 PM

dtownral
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i would say mainstream politicians as well, they think these kinds of ideas are only shared among the radical few

4/16/2019 2:30:20 PM

rwoody
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"out of touch" seems to be the wrong term

They're willfully ignorant, at best, bc the money doesn't like those policies

4/16/2019 2:35:20 PM

Str8BacardiL
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Just being honest.


I am not seeing much talent.

4/17/2019 1:17:18 PM

rwoody
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Great post

4/17/2019 1:52:17 PM

synapse
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O'Rourke response to his limited charity giving was pretty bad
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/439299-orourke-responds-to-criticism-of-charitable-contributions

in total, but this especially:

Quote :
"He went on to suggest that his attendance at that town hall, being away from his family, was itself a charitable act.

“I’m doing everything that I can right now, spending this time with you -- not with our kiddos, not back home in El Paso -- because I want to sacrifice everything to make sure that we meet this moment of truth with everything that we’ve got,” O’Rourke told the student."

4/17/2019 2:10:31 PM

JesusHChrist
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I could be at home gaming or learning sweet tricks ok my skateboard, but I'm here on the internet posting about politics with you losers.

Isn't that charitable enough!?

4/18/2019 12:59:54 AM

shoot
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Andrew Young is rising. He can make some noise.

4/18/2019 11:44:33 AM

qntmfred
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It's pronounced Yang sir. And yeah, he's gonna win.

4/18/2019 4:58:25 PM

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