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 Message Boards » » 2020 Democrat Primaries Page 1 ... 17 18 19 20 [21] 22 23 24 25 ... 34, Prev Next  
thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"In New Hampshire, Joe Biden predicts that once President Trump is out of office, Republicans will have “an epiphany” and work with Democrats toward consensus."


Quote :
"Biden said this today, the day Alabama Republicans passed the most restrictive forced birth bill—with no exception for rape or incest. The GOP is running a multi-state campaign to strip women of a constitutional right and his plan is them having an epiphany."


http://twitter.com/Millicentsomer/status/1128481465379872768

we are fucked if this dude gets the nomination

5/14/2019 10:25:56 PM

dtownral
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I'm very interested to see democratic party shills explain why this isn't an automatically disqualifying position

5/15/2019 7:19:21 AM

NyM410
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I, for one, truly believe that once Donald Trump is gone the the better angels of our nature will shine through and Mitch McConnell will gladly work with Uncle Joe to bridge the partisan gap and confirm all his judges and nominees in a timely manner.

And now I have worms coming out of my ears for typing this.

[Edited on May 15, 2019 at 9:25 AM. Reason : Like wtf is even the constituency for comments like that? Those two boomers in Iowa?]

5/15/2019 9:24:25 AM

dtownral
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it's those people that grumpy and duke say will carry the democrats to victory

5/15/2019 9:30:38 AM

dtownral
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enter Bill de Blasio

5/16/2019 9:07:00 AM

moron
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Biden would crush trump

The rest of the candidates would do very well

If anything this should encourage primary voters to back who they feel most convicted about.

5/17/2019 4:57:50 PM

bdmazur
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^Not all that different from what we saw in 2015...

5/18/2019 2:15:20 PM

moron
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^ true. But these are abysmal numbers for a president during very good macroeconomic indicators

5/18/2019 3:02:59 PM

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Quote :
"Not all that different from what we saw in 2015..."


Yeah. I keep repeating the same when moron keeps making these moronic proclamations while completely ignoring what happened in 2016.

5/19/2019 3:19:08 AM

horosho
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If you bother to read the small print, that poll is amongst registered voters and all of the primary polls the media shoves down our throats are amongst likely democratic primary voters or people who identify as democrats. Aside from being based on popular vote (instead of electoral college), most of the country is left out of all of those anyway. This is why this use of polls 18 months out is nothing more than a mind-control tactic by the media. Real journalists would be telling us information about all of the candidates equally at this point. Instead, hey create a narrative of who can win and then their viewers buy into that narrative and are left with 3 options.

a. support the media's crowned candidate without bothering to consider policy
b. give up hope and become someone left out of "likely voter" polls
c. switch support from the candidate whose policies they support to the one the media wants

36% of people don't vote because they don't see the point when "both" candidates are corrupt and have nothing new to offer. 50% of young people don't vote. Show me polls that tap into those groups and I'll stop saying the polls/media are trash. Corporate media literally sets up these elections to maintain stability. There is nothing worse for wall street than change or uncertainty of change. Liberals end up thinking the best way to win is to try to rip away 4% of the voters from Trump's side instead of working on that huge pool of non-voters.

Unless you have a diversified portfolio with defense, insurance, financial services, tech, pharmaceutical, and transport stocks, you have no motivation to vote in these fixed elections. Until people start understanding that and the effects a people's candidate would have on those industries, this corporate facade of "electability" will remain.

On the flip side, Trump (and the GOP in general) has a huge advantage when the election comes down to a referendum on bottom lines. Thats how he won and his only chance at winning again.

5/19/2019 10:44:10 AM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"I'm very interested to see democratic party shills explain why this isn't an automatically disqualifying position"


What alternative are you advocating? Refusing to speak to or acknowledge the existence of congressional Republicans?

If you think the situation is so far gone that even hoping to work together one day is blasphemy, then really your only choice is bloody civil war and I don't know why you're wasting time wringing your hands in a thread about the primary.

I don't think that the Republicans in Congress will suddenly become good and reasonable after Trump leaves, and I don't think Joe Biden does, either. But "bring the country together" is a better message than "we must tear this nation asunder," both for electoral reasons and for not killing each other reasons.

5/19/2019 12:07:40 PM

rwoody
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What? We should vote them the fuck out of office not tear the country apart.

Biden's statement comes off as either hopelessly naive or a willingness to compromise any and all "ideals" to "get something done". He already has a bad history of working with creeps in the name of bipartisanship. He seems like the worst kind of politician that thinks it's a game to win instead of something with real consequences.

Dem candidates should be running on the complete intransigence and moral rot of the GOP. Talk about how you will get things done despite GOP fighting every step of the way. Talk about how it's the party of horrible corrupt president that has shown they have no principles they won't compromise to enrich their donors and themselves and ensure white men remain at the top of the food chain.

GOP are already calling fucking Biden a socialist, just like Obama. They will label the candidate far left no matter how right they go to court this imaginary group of voters. Republicans are 99% going to either vote Trump or stay home. Focus on his negatives, CALL FOR IMPEACHMENT and make staying home the vastly preferable option.

5/19/2019 1:15:55 PM

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Quote :
"Dem candidates should be running on the complete intransigence and moral rot of the GOP"

Quote :
"Biden's statement comes off as either hopelessly naive..."


You do realize he's running for President right?

5/19/2019 2:03:03 PM

rwoody
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...yes?

5/19/2019 4:55:42 PM

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And you think

Quote :
"running on the complete intransigence and moral rot of the GOP"


is a wise strategy for winning a general election?

5/19/2019 5:08:25 PM

rwoody
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Which republican congress member or administration secretary do you think doesn't fit that description? I would think that shining a bright light on GOP policies would def help get a Dem elected. If not, we're fucked anyway.

How many Republicans do you think would start voting democratic if the democrat said "actually I like Republicans". How many democrats would stay home for the same reason?

You think playing to the middle is a better strategy than energizing the base? How did that work last time.

5/19/2019 5:34:56 PM

moron
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Quote :
"
Quote :
"Not all that different from what we saw in 2015..."


Yeah. I keep repeating the same when moron keeps making these moronic proclamations while completely ignoring what happened in 2016"


I was one of the people pointing out trump was within the margin of error and the trend was in his favor in 2016

The fact of the matter is trump is doing unusually badly in polls right now. It’s the democrats’ race to lose. This was the narrative people said for Hillary too but the data didn’t back that up.

I don’t think voters are going to like trump pardoning war criminals, they’re not going to like his intentionally confusing rhetoric on Iran, trump’s old tricks aren’t going to work except on his base.

5/19/2019 8:09:19 PM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"We should vote them the fuck out of office not tear the country apart."


I agree, and I'm sure that Biden (just like all the rest of them) would campaign very hard to throw Republicans out of office wherever they are able. But at some point you might as well accept that we can't vote Mitch McConnell (and 30 other Republican Senators) out of office in 2020. Seriously, you can't, because they're not up for re-election that year.

5/19/2019 8:51:48 PM

rwoody
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Biden campaigned for a republican just last year, so no I don't think he holds that opinion. He was also good buddies with people like Strom Thurmond.

And yea, obviously they can't all be voted out of office. The goal should be get to 51, abolish the filibuster, and start packing the courts.

5/19/2019 8:59:23 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"Which republican congress member or administration secretary do you think doesn't fit that description? I would think that shining a bright light on GOP policies would def help get a Dem elected. If not, we're fucked anyway.

How many Republicans do you think would start voting democratic if the democrat said "actually I like Republicans". How many democrats would stay home for the same reason?

You think playing to the middle is a better strategy than energizing the base? How did that work last time."


this

5/20/2019 12:27:44 AM

dtownral
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Quote :
"What alternative are you advocating? Refusing to speak to or acknowledge the existence of congressional Republicans?"


i'm advocating for reality, where republicans won't have an epiphany and start working with democrats. pretending like republicans are or can be reasonable is not only disqualifying because it's fucking insane but because it is a losing message that won't energize the base.

Quote :
"If you think the situation is so far gone that even hoping to work together one day is blasphemy, then really your only choice is bloody civil war and I don't know why you're wasting time wringing your hands in a thread about the primary."

a modern rebellion won't look like a civil war, it will look like increasing violence and shooting and bombings and i think that's what we have in store in the next few decades

Quote :
"I don't think that the Republicans in Congress will suddenly become good and reasonable after Trump leaves, and I don't think Joe Biden does, either. But "bring the country together" is a better message than "we must tear this nation asunder," both for electoral reasons and for not killing each other reasons."

a better message is that republicans are destroying things, we need to fight back, here are my plans for how to do it. people like warren are doing a good job of this, or even AOC* who has fewer concrete plans but shows that you can both be critical and still be able to control your own message. the actual plans don't even need to be that radical or left wing, it just needs to be an energizing message that says you are ready to fight back and a septuagenarian saying "hey, this time republicans will be nice" is the opposite of that.

(* an asterisk because otherwise you'd be a pedant and point out that AOC isn't a primary candidate and ignore that I'm only making a comment about her messaging)

5/20/2019 8:21:14 AM

rwoody
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GOP governments are actively removing the right to vote, trying to deport citizens and otherwise attacking rights but some people still want to think they're actually great people.

5/20/2019 8:43:37 AM

NyM410
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I loved Mayor Pete going on Fox and savaging the White Power duo.

Also, I wish more people would come out and say the founding fathers may have been good political philosophers but they were garbage people who shouldn’t be celebrated.

5/20/2019 10:34:39 AM

bdmazur
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The fringe alt-right "news" sites (a la Breitbart) are saying Hunter Biden was busted with cocaine in 2016 and Joe swept it under the rug. Can't find a real news source, not even Fox News, saying anything about it. On the heels of a possible scandal in Ukraine, that could really be a nail in the coffin if true (but I have no reason to believe it is yet)

5/22/2019 4:50:22 AM

dtownral
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Theres no way that would be the nail in the coffin, this is a post disqualifier world

5/22/2019 6:58:00 AM

Dentaldamn
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I agree. only extended prison time can disqualify someone now...maybe.

5/22/2019 9:18:18 AM

thegoodlife3
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my fingers are bleeding from clutching my pearls so hard

5/22/2019 10:18:33 AM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"a better message is that republicans are destroying things, we need to fight back, here are my plans for how to do it. people like warren are doing a good job of this"


I don't disagree, but it's ludicrous hyperbole to say that offering to work with the other party is "disqualifying."

It's a national election and he wants to cast a broad net in order to win, so he refrains from calling the other party irredeemably insane, evil, and corrupt, and speaks to what many people want (or at least, think they want), which is a less rabidly partisan politician discourse. That's not the strategy you'd take, fine. But it's not beyond the fucking pale.

5/23/2019 11:40:19 AM

theDuke866
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^^^^

5/23/2019 11:48:33 AM

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hilarious that someone thinks sweeping a child's drug bust under the rug could be disqualifying when our current president bragged about grabbing women "by the pussy" and getting away with it because he's famous, and promised to ban all muslims from entering the US.

also lol at thinking Biden is already in the proverbial coffin just awaiting that nail

5/23/2019 12:26:19 PM

dtownral
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^^^ however acting like they will suddenly work with you , what Biden did, is insane

[Edited on May 23, 2019 at 12:36 PM. Reason : .]

5/23/2019 12:36:16 PM

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^ it was messaging, not an actual belief.

5/23/2019 1:11:39 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"but it's ludicrous hyperbole to say that offering to work with the other party is "disqualifying.""


Nobody said that

[Edited on May 23, 2019 at 1:12 PM. Reason : ^it's bad messaging that makes you look dumb]

5/23/2019 1:12:17 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"^ it was messaging, not an actual belief."

Quote :
"pretending like republicans are or can be reasonable is not only disqualifying because it's fucking insane but because it is a losing message that won't energize the base. "

5/23/2019 1:55:05 PM

GrumpyGOP
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^^Well, dtownral did.

Quote :
"however acting like they will suddenly work with you , what Biden did, is insane
"


Nah. Some will become more cooperative one the wind blows in a different, less Trump-y direction. Others won't. But some of the gutless invertebrates in the GOP will be willing to work with Democrats on at least some issues.

5/23/2019 3:14:33 PM

rwoody
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No he didn't. Saying Republicans will have an "epiphany" is different than saying you desire to be bipartisan or whatever bullshit. You can easily point toward your goal of working for all Americans without pretending to be some pied pider of Mitch McConnell.

And did you forget the Obama years? Trump didn't make these guys totally uncooperative, its been that way since at least Obamas 2nd term. Maybe Collins or Murkowski will go back to their bullshit but they won't vote for anything worth passing.

[Edited on May 23, 2019 at 4:07 PM. Reason : E]

5/23/2019 4:05:13 PM

dtownral
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it doesn't matter who the candidate is, republicans are going to pretend like they are a terrible socialist who will destroy america and if they make it to office republicans will work to obstruct any and every policy and appointment, so a message to democratic voters that, "hey once trump is gone this won't happen anymore even though it happened before trump so vote for me because they will work with me" is a terrible message that isn't going to make people excited about voting.


(i'm also not convinced it's entirely messaging, i think a 70 year old long-time congressman and political insider who is personal friends with other 70 year old long-time congress people and political insiders could very well believe that there are sensible republicans who might be able to work with him)

5/23/2019 5:00:11 PM

rwoody
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Look at this thread of Biden vs Bernie. It blows my mind that Dems appear to prefer the left side
https://twitter.com/davidsirota/status/1131999229562376192?s=19

5/25/2019 11:25:14 AM

bdmazur
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Biden is 76 and Sanders is 77.

Warren comparatively is looking like a spring chicken at 69.

5/28/2019 5:46:46 PM

shoot
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Ted Cruz, Yang and Beto are America's future leaders.

5/28/2019 9:22:47 PM

dtownral
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Biden invaded a young girls personal space again, its impossible for him to not be creepy

5/29/2019 6:57:49 AM

rwoody
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Quote :
"Biden’s campaign is based around the thesis that good old boys can sit down over beers and pass comprehensive climate legislation. It’s more absurd than anything the left has proposed."


https://www.gq.com/story/democratic-leadership-base/


[Edited on June 1, 2019 at 11:44 AM. Reason : E]

6/1/2019 11:43:54 AM

moron
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Yang came out today against impeachment, saying it's too politically risky.

6/1/2019 10:05:36 PM

bdmazur
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^As much as I want Trump impeached, and I like seeing the Dems who want to put up the fight, it also scares me that if they go for it and fail miserably it will get him reelected.

6/2/2019 12:44:05 AM

rwoody
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Define "fail miserably". They will be outlining his crimes on prime time news for 6 months, not sure how that can fail.

6/2/2019 12:13:48 PM

dtownral
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It's such a silly argument, does anyone really think that if they dont impeach then Trump wont act like it was a witch hunt and he has been cleared and vindicated?

6/2/2019 1:11:54 PM

dtownral
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Really liked everyone coming out against Biden in CA

6/2/2019 1:12:24 PM

A Tanzarian
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^^^ I'll throw that one back at ya.

Define success. What is the desired outcome of impeachment?

6/2/2019 4:00:02 PM

rwoody
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Full success would be removal from office.

But I'd consider what I described a plenty good success. Trump does not want to be impeached and he does not do well when his crimes are front and center every day.

Not impeaching is auto failure bc on the Trump campaign trail he can tell people "even Pelosi thought I was innocent!"

6/2/2019 4:45:50 PM

dtownral
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Months of detailed coverage into the many trumps crimes, with Trump given frequent unscripted, unhinged rants in response against the wishes of his advisors would be a big win

[Edited on June 2, 2019 at 5:50 PM. Reason : Also it's their constitutional duty]

6/2/2019 5:49:42 PM

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