Identifying areas of contrast or stating negative facts is not trashing. That claim comes from fragile hilbots who think we should ignore all of the true criticism of a candidate before the general and only makes them weaker in the general. Truth is, they need to learn how to defend the negative truths that are out there against them.

Trashing is misleading people with false or out of context information (like warren did to bernie). My Cherokee namecalling thing was trashing but saying Warren claimed to be native american and tried to use a DNA test as "proof" would not be trashing, and would just be stating facts.

1/16/2020 1:16:52 PM

Maybe I don't get out in my life bc this is the first I've heard anyone define "trashing" the way you two are.

Glad dtr and horosho can agree on something though

1/16/2020 1:26:52 PM

c'mon be honest, you don't need me to explain that not all criticism is trashing

trashing is negative, its a pejorative, not all criticisms are equal and trashing refers to bad ones

Quote :

"And your post had nothing to do with nym's post "

it was referring to horosho's post, christ

1/16/2020 1:31:49 PM

I thought it was underhanded now it's just pejorative? And saying someone can't win isn't pejorative?

As for which post you were responding to, there is a very clear and easy way to show you are responding to something other then the post directly above your own. But as I said your post wasn't very relevant to horoshos either. It's fine to change the subject and talk about something you want to talk about, but it's def off topic.

[Edited on January 16, 2020 at 1:39 PM. Reason : And the scale of the criticism is partially eye of the beholder, of course ]

1/16/2020 1:38:15 PM

posts can stand alone without being related to the posts above

my post was related to the posts above

you know what trashing means and are trolling


examples:
trashing: insulting warren, attacking small things, etc...
not trashing: fact based calm criticism such as, "she's me second choice, but i have a concern that her supporter base is rich and educated and she doesn't expand the base"

trashing: biden is an old confused idiot who gropes children inappropriately and he doesn't deserver to run
not trashing: here is a video of some of the times biden has talked about cutting social security on the floor of the senate, here is a video of him talking about his support for the iraq war


for more examples of trashing in a primary, look at the 2008 primary:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/25/barackobama.hillaryclinton
https://www.thenation.com/article/the-2008-democratic-primary-was-far-nastier-than-2016s/
etc...

[Edited on January 16, 2020 at 1:51 PM. Reason : 2016 was fairly tame, 2020 so far even tamer]

1/16/2020 1:40:32 PM

Posts CAN stand alone, I literally just said that

Your post was only very loosely related to the two posts above

I do know what trashing means, unlike you who made up a definition, then dropped it one post later, and I am not trolling.

At the end of the day, trashing is a 100% subjective term so implying Warren is smearing Bernie by using that word is silly. And saying someone running for president can't win is not a small thing. Your Biden example is to my point from a previous posts, attacking policies is not trashing I agree, attacking her likeability and electability is different. If you've got a non aggression pact or whatever, you prob shouldnt spend time talking about how this other person could never win. Besides if Warren got the nom, wouldn't Bernie be trying to help expand the base? That would seem like a hollow effort after already saying they won't support her.

1/16/2020 1:53:27 PM

sanders is the one who is constantly attacked with electability arguments

sanders never said warren couldn't win, he never said it privately and he has certainly never made any kind of claim publicly

troll

edit:
i also am not sure it's true they ever had a non-aggression pact, they have just been respectful
this is from august, did they say differently since then?
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/08/01/bernie_sanders_denies_non-agression_deal_with_elizabeth_warren_weve_been_friends_over_20_years.html

[Edited on January 16, 2020 at 1:59 PM. Reason : .]

1/16/2020 1:57:31 PM

Saying she can't expand the base is literally attacking the electability, if it isn't then who cares? And its dumb to say what Bernie has or hasn't said privately as a statement of fact, you have no idea if that's true, you just hope it is.

I may have made up the non aggression pact. Point being that I THINK (not even close to sure but can't remember others) the "script" was the first publicized instance of one campaign attacking the other. Warren's campaign presumably made the (poorly thought out imo) choice to respond to that by leaking the women story. One does not excuse the other, but things don't happen in a vacuum.

[Edited on January 16, 2020 at 2:06 PM. Reason : Also Google "elizabeth warren electability" ]

1/16/2020 2:05:18 PM

The idea that someone would bury a sexist statement made by a major presidential candidate under the expectation that said candidate doesn't aggressively campaign against them is in itself corrupt and disqualifying.

1/16/2020 2:21:36 PM

This one is for ujustwait

https://twitter.com/lukewsavage/status/1217895333230972931?s=21

1/16/2020 5:13:24 PM

I wanna play hoops w/ Yang

1/16/2020 5:42:13 PM

^^ big oof

1/16/2020 6:21:14 PM

Haha haha the Tulsi tweet in that thread is :chefs kiss:

1/16/2020 7:59:56 PM

My Bernie texting experience seems to confirm that

1/16/2020 8:03:49 PM

Wait so is this saying Tulsi is the best candidate for swapping Trump supporters?

1/16/2020 8:15:51 PM

To be clear:
- that wasn't a poll question and was infered from other donald vs *other candidate*
- low sample size (169 Biden supporters, 130 Sanders, 65 Warren, 41 Buttigieg supporters)
- they didn't ask who would stay home if their candidate wasn't nominated

1/17/2020 7:48:48 AM

if the entire party is doing as much pissing in the tent as is going on in this thread, then we are fucked. there isn't a need to bash each person. we need to be more focused on discussing policy instead of drawing strong lines that are going to leave people with a distaste for a candidate's supporters and by extension the candidate themself.

1/17/2020 9:11:21 AM

i think this primary has been remarkably calm and peaceful so far, none of the candidates have been bashing others

1/17/2020 9:14:51 AM

Seriously.

Political commentary has the memory of a hamster. This time in 2016 the leader in the challenger party primary was calling competitors and their wives ugly, accusing them of being ineligible because of birth location and literally saying their dad killed Kennedy.

This is such nonsense and the media’s incessant need for horse race drama is absurd.

1/17/2020 9:37:11 AM

My concern is more with the voters than the candidates. Voters with a strong distaste for another candidate's supporters could be inclined to not vote at all or vote for Trump if a particular candidate wins the nomination, which could result in a Trump win.

1/17/2020 9:38:48 AM

This the tamest Democratic primary in recent history. Hillary v Obama was vile.

[Edited on January 17, 2020 at 9:49 AM. Reason : ^^lol that was hilarious though]

1/17/2020 9:46:42 AM

https://twitter.com/ashleyfeinberg/status/1218183029874667521?s=19

Biden interview..... Woof

1/17/2020 11:00:05 AM

Warren/Sanders story could have been from CNN sitting on a story from over a year ago
https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1218380840041963525?s=19
https://theintercept.com/2020/01/17/sanders-warren-vice-president-treasury-secretary/

1/17/2020 11:37:52 PM

that’s certainly more believable than the Warren campaign leaking it

1/18/2020 2:00:39 AM

So...that would still be a leak from Warren.

Either way, she fundraised off it and made it a central topic on the debate stage. There’s really no way around it.

1/18/2020 11:38:09 AM

Talking about it at and off the record dinner a year ago is a vastly different context of a "leak" though. I think it also lowers the chances that it's a "lie" to almost zero. A misunderstanding/miscommunication at worst. And she didn't make it a central topic, cnn did. But also the topic was whether a woman could win, not whether Bernie said that.

1/18/2020 12:01:15 PM

If the primary were today I’d vote sanders. If we had ranked choice voting I’d do Yang then Sanders.

1/18/2020 1:33:12 PM

According to this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/quiz-which-candidate-agrees-with-me/

Steyer, Klobuchar, and Yang are who I agree with the most

And Gabbard, Sanders, and Biden I agree with the least

1/18/2020 3:16:59 PM

Corporate Dem. You’re practically a Republican.

[Edited on January 18, 2020 at 3:58 PM. Reason : It’s really a form of privilege, I hope you know.]

1/18/2020 3:57:51 PM

I’ve always known I have the heart of a shill. But my mind is woke.

1/18/2020 4:08:35 PM

Wow WAPO designed that whole quiz just to try and trick progressives into voting for Warren over Bernie.

[Edited on January 18, 2020 at 5:07 PM. Reason : pulling out all the stops]

1/18/2020 5:07:05 PM

Yang and bloomberg were first for me, tied with 10, biden 9, sanders 8

Gabbard only 5. Kind of want to change some answers on a few, some of those questions sucked, like eliminating electoral college or adding more justices


After changing about 15 or so, it stayed same for top 3. Sanders went to 5, tulsi went to 4

[Edited on January 18, 2020 at 5:47 PM. Reason : .]

1/18/2020 5:40:31 PM

Sanders, Warren, and Steyer were my top 3 in that WaPo poll, with Sanders and Warren well ahead of Steyer

[Edited on January 18, 2020 at 8:15 PM. Reason : Biden was tied for last with Bloomberg with only 3]

1/18/2020 7:53:35 PM

We need fact checkers for the fact checkers

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

[Edited on January 18, 2020 at 8:29 PM. Reason : https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1218681195938111489?s=21]

1/18/2020 8:18:23 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/rep-jayapal-a-leading-liberal-endorses-sanders-for-president/2020/01/19/d1bdb3c0-3a35-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html

1/19/2020 12:26:10 PM

lol at the NYT both sides-ing their endorsement

1/20/2020 9:11:40 AM

It’s crazy how Bernie supporters in twitter are so salty about the times endorsements.

1/20/2020 11:50:08 AM

are they? i've only seen people laughing

1/20/2020 11:51:55 AM

No one is salty lol, no one expected the NYT to endorse Bernie. He criticized them in the interview. As Chomsky would say, an NYT endorsement is a sign you're doing something wrong.

The dual endorsement of a progressive and a conservative Dem is one thing, but can you imagine Klobuchar in the general? Lmao. The extent to which the pundit class is trying to make Klobuchar happen is honestly bewildering. We all know they're not analyzing the candidates in good faith, and are ultimately protecting their own class interests, but this is just begging for a loss.

[Edited on January 20, 2020 at 12:24 PM. Reason : .]

1/20/2020 12:21:44 PM

i thought it was interesting as another example that even the pundit/establishment doesn't seem to excited about biden. deval patrick entering was a previous big example.

[Edited on January 20, 2020 at 12:23 PM. Reason : dev]

1/20/2020 12:23:34 PM

Latest in the "are Warren and Sanders still buddies" saga....

https://twitter.com/lbarronlopez/status/1219282058163490816?s=19

1/20/2020 12:25:27 PM

Thats my main criticism of Bernie. He's way too nice and decent.

1/20/2020 1:02:14 PM

Remember that article NYT wrote less than a year ago about Amy Klobuchar regularly abusing her staff? Good times.

1/20/2020 1:17:26 PM

I haven't read it but twitter claims the endorsement mentions that but discounts it. Is that worse or better I don't even know.

1/20/2020 1:29:32 PM

Yeah they make excuses for her and compare her throwing things at staff to being a tough boss and berating them.

Quote :

"Reports of how Senator Klobuchar treats her staff give us pause. They raise serious questions about her ability to attract and hire talented people. Surrounding the president with a team of seasoned, reasoned leaders is critical to the success of an administration, not doing so is often the downfall of presidencies. Ms. Klobuchar has acknowledged she’s a tough boss and pledged to do better. (To be fair, Bill Clinton and Mr. Trump — not to mention former Vice President Biden — also have reputations for sometimes berating their staffs, and it is rarely mentioned as a political liability.)"

Some other choice quotes from the Paper of Record, employing the Smartest People in Media.

Quote :

"The Democratic primary contest is often portrayed as a tussle between moderates and progressives. To some extent that’s true. But when we spent significant time with the leading candidates, the similarity of their platforms on fundamental issues became striking. Nearly any of them would be the most progressive president in decades on issues like health care, the economy and government’s allocations of resources. Where they differ most significantly is not the what but the how, in whether they believe the country’s institutions and norms are up to the challenge of the moment."

Quote :

"Mr. Sanders would be 79 when he assumed office, and after an October heart attack, his health is a serious concern. Then, there’s how Mr. Sanders approaches politics. He boasts that compromise is anathema to him. Only his prescriptions can be the right ones, even though most are overly rigid, untested and divisive. He promises that once in office, a groundswell of support will emerge to push through his agenda. Three years into the Trump administration, we see little advantage to exchanging one over-promising, divisive figure in Washington for another."

Quote :

"Basket-case governments in several nations south of the Rio Grande have sent a historic flood of migrants to our southern border."

1/20/2020 1:38:08 PM

Quote :

"Basket-case governments in several nations south of the Rio Grande have sent a historic flood of migrants to our southern border."

what's the context of this quote, because i'm having a hard time figuring out a non racist/xenophobic meaning for that

1/20/2020 1:54:00 PM

There isn't one, it's just bad and racist

Quote :

"There has been a wildfire burning in Australia larger than Switzerland. The Middle East is more unstable at this moment than at any other time in the past decade, with a nuclear arms race looking more when than if. Basket-case governments in several nations south of the Rio Grande have sent a historic flood of migrants to our southern border. Global technology companies exert more political influence than some national governments. White nationalists from Norway to New Zealand to El Paso use the internet to share ideas about racial superiority and which caliber of rifle works best for the next mass killing."

1/20/2020 2:05:16 PM

I mean the NYT literally laundered a Bannon/Mercer bankrolled book as news in 2016. And did so indignantly. They have been broken for years.

1/20/2020 7:03:49 PM

Oh it goes way back

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1922-new-york-times-hitler/
https://www.nytimes.com/1967/04/14/archives/dr-king-and-the-war-his-opposition-to-us-role-in-vietnam-said-to.html

The benefit of social media is that now the younger generation is being taught to actively distrust corporate outlets

1/20/2020 7:30:09 PM

Hillary will never go away.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/21/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-documentary/index.html

I love how she says "especially against the women" like we haven't been trashing Biden the most.

1/21/2020 9:21:32 AM