Craziness on a cerebral level seeing virtually EVERY house, business or church gutted out, stores empty, cars covered in mold, fire department with a tent as a makeshift fire station ...

11/29/2016 6:53:19 PM

wtf were you doing out there? Burying a body?

11/29/2016 6:57:59 PM

same here. Rode trough last week and its unreal to see what those folks lost... basically everything. Everything they owned is on the side of the road. Too bad Prince isnt around to write them another check

11/29/2016 7:41:42 PM

Second time seeing that. Saw it after Floyd. Sad shit. Even worse that many did not take the buy out to preserve the history of the town and after tens of millions were spent to build a levy around it, the shit failed again. Guess we will bail it all out again. Just give them the money and close it down. It's in a bad fucking floodplain and has done this many times over the years. Think the people and the taxpayers would all be better off not forcing these people to stay and rebuild.

[Edited on November 29, 2016 at 10:53 PM. Reason : ]

11/29/2016 10:53:16 PM

The levee did not fail.

Flood protection measures mitigate only so much risk. This flooding event was larger than the levee was designed to protect against. Just like every manmade system, there are design limits.

11/30/2016 8:28:47 AM

Good night sweet Princeville

11/30/2016 9:29:30 AM

Nighthawk voted for Trump

11/30/2016 9:33:48 AM

^False. I absolutely did not vote for him in primaries or the general election.

^^^I understand, just like the water went around the levee in Lumberton too. Whether they had a structural failure or not, in the end those levees did not protect the towns they were built to protect, did they?

My point was this is historically very low land. That is why the people of Tarboro did not want to settle over there, and why the land was available when Princeville was founded. I understand the historical significance of the area and town. Until last week, I owned a house a short distance from Princeville myself. My main complaint is looking at the cost to benefit ratio. The town decided not to take the FEMA buyout and rebuilt instead. Looking at the US Army Corps of Engineer report here:

http://www.saw.usace.army.mil/Portals/59/docs/flood_risk_mgmt_multipurpose_reservoirs/RevisedPrinceville%20Final%20Report%208Apr2016.pdf

By totaling up public money spent, it seems that north of $150 million were spent just in public money. Millions more were raised and donated from private sources. The town got a new town hall, new elementary school, lots of new public housing, USACE spent millions already on revamping flood control, and has plans that could spend north of $40 million to protect the town (the recommended flood control plan is only $21.5 million). In the end though, for what? Its still a bunch of damn trailers, public housing and dilapidated houses in a floodplain that now all needs to be repaired or replaced. Now we are going to drop millions more on the place again. I understand not wanting to break up a historical community, and people say they can't afford to move, but I don't think they can afford to live there anymore either. If they had just written a check to every single person in the town the first time for the amount of government spending, they would each have $75,000 in the bank. Lets be clear, many of these folks don't even own their property, they are living at almost no cost to them in public housing, or in cheap rental property. That amount of cash could have changed their lives and given them the mobility to move to somewhere they might have a better chance to prosper. Call it bad planning, victims of climate change, or whatever you want, but dropping all of this money over and over again seems to help nobody. How much money should we spend to prop up Princeville over and over again?

[Edited on November 30, 2016 at 10:42 AM. Reason : ]

11/30/2016 10:34:58 AM

I assume you feel the same way about spending money on the various parts of the outer banks that keep washing away?

I don't necessarily disagree.

11/30/2016 10:50:35 AM

Quote :

"I understand, just like the water went around the levee in Lumberton too. Whether they had a structural failure or not, in the end those levees did not protect the towns they were built to protect, did they?"

They weren't built to protect the towns from the event that occurred.

11/30/2016 10:54:54 AM

^^Difference in that situation is almost everybody in Dare County (and others) are homeowners. They are paying for flood insurance and they would directly benefit from any FEMA buyout. Most of the people in Princeville are not homeowners, and of those that are homeowners, many are not able to afford flood insurance on their property.

Additionally for the Outer Banks you have the further discussion about the economic impact of tourism at the Outer Banks. Investment in that area does have huge returns. Now should we bailing rich folks out who have a second home built on stilts in the sand in an area prone to hurricanes? I would personally never buy a house near the ocean, but that is just me. The Outer Banks and flood insurance is a very different topic altogether from this, which would be basically killing a very poor community with some historical significance. It sucks, but it might be for their own good.

^They could be, but is it worth the financial investment? That is the real point of this discussion.

[Edited on November 30, 2016 at 11:07 AM. Reason : ]

11/30/2016 11:04:46 AM

How bout we just rebuild Princeville on elevated platforms...like the Outer Banks? Cars would still be f'd, but it is better than losing your home and everything in it.

11/30/2016 11:09:42 AM

I was told by an insurance agent that many whose homes were in areas that flooded were not considered to be in a "flood zone" and thus were ineligible to buy flood insurance. We need to change that if its true.

11/30/2016 11:12:53 AM

^^They can just move a couple miles down the road. Everything east of Shiloh Farm Road is out of the floodplain, so if you want to keep the town, you could buy up the farmland out that way and just move or rebuild Princeville.

^Your source is wrong. The flood map is here:

http://fris.nc.gov/fris/Index.aspx?FIPS=065&ST=NC&user=General%20Public

11/30/2016 11:26:13 AM

But still, he was right - flood insurance is one of the most expensive kinds of insurances you can buy. Most likely the majority of folks wouldn't want to spend the money, or even could spend the money, to get it.

But people are stubborn. They don't like to leave their home, especially if their family has been rooted there for many years. And especially in the face of this kind of adversity. You get the "I'm not gonna let these floods run me from my home" attitude. And I get that.

Why stop at applying this mentality to Princeville and the Outer Banks. Why not just abandon New Orleans as well. And while we're at it, let's cut our losses with the Netherlands too. They spend way too much money keeping dry.

11/30/2016 11:28:29 AM

^^^they're zone x, which is considered low risk and buying insurance is not mandatory but is available. They are only in a zone x due to the levies.

^^even of 100% of princeville lives in publicly owned housing (they don't) there would still be no difference in us rebuilding it versus rebuilding HWY 12 or Bonner bridge every decade. Except the outer banks are attractive and princeville is.......


but again I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I'd like to see the national flood insurance program get some more teeth for just such situations as these, although I recognize there are a lot of similiar marginal situations that will always be tough calls on what the best action is.

[Edited on November 30, 2016 at 11:34 AM. Reason : Sorry, I type way too slow on ma phone]

11/30/2016 11:33:01 AM

The guy I was talking to was not just talking about Princeville. There was flooding all over.

11/30/2016 11:37:10 AM

http://www.wral.com/mayor-buyouts-will-have-devastating-effect-on-princeville-/16296476/

The mayor is worried about the tax base of the town if people take the buyout. He also wants the Army Corps of Engineers to heighten and extend the dike further. Likely tens of millions from the Fed and State to rebuild (again) and tens of millions more to further expand the levee.

^^And I agree. With climate change affecting sea levels and causing more flooding events, the program should offer a good buyout but if they don't accept it, then they get nothing from the Federal government. It might be tougher to do with something like New Orleans or the Outer Banks, but I don't see why the federal government can't force the issue in Princeville.

[Edited on December 2, 2016 at 11:29 AM. Reason : ]

12/2/2016 11:29:04 AM

Can you calm down?

12/2/2016 11:39:00 AM

Barrier islands shouldn't get any taxpayer money to rebuild. Ever. They're goddamn moving sandbars.

Princeville is a different matter and it's not a simple OH THESE PEOPLE SHOULD JUST MOVE.

12/2/2016 12:17:07 PM

At least at the beach they require you to rebuild on stilts. Hell I cant even replace the worn out sliding door in my condo because the new door has to be impact glass($4500 vs $500)...that won't do a lot of good when all of the condos above me do not have it.

I understand the town wanting to preserve its tax base but at the same time the residents have a one-shot opportunity to get a relocation package. They can get bought out at their "pre-storm" value which is likely much more than now with the place torn all to pieces.

The other thing I can not figure out is why the town can not merge with Tarboro if it loses too many residents.

12/2/2016 1:42:22 PM

I rode through there about a week after the storm. It was crazy.

12/2/2016 2:05:10 PM

So is princeville gonna be all hipster and shit when they sell and get revitalised?

12/3/2016 12:08:25 AM

Quote :

"The other thing I can not figure out is why the town can not merge with Tarboro if it loses too many residents. "

even Tarboro doesn't want that shithole

12/3/2016 12:23:08 PM

A great article on Princeville, and the case for saving it. I didn't realize this was potentially the oldest free-slave founded city in the country. And one of the last remaining.

Quote :

"Residents on the nation’s coasts and along inland waterways have assessed storm damage and wondered if they should relocate — a painful and fairly uncommon form of hazard mitigation known as retreat. Here, the consideration has a wrenching historical dimension. This is where a freed slave, Turner Prince, established Freedom Hill in 1865, which became Princeville 20 years later, a town where extended families have proudly lived for generations. And many of them are determined to rebuild."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/princeville-north-carolina-hurricane-matthew-floods-black-history.html

12/10/2016 8:24:58 AM

I acknowledged that bit of history earlier on in this thread, but at what point are we wasting money to continue to rebuild? Many of the residents also want to leave but the mayor is trying to guilt them into staying by making comments that they would kill the tax base of the city. Yes it would hurt the town but if people are tired of dealing with the continual flooding, why try to make them stay even longer. Several interviews after the flood were with older people who had lived there all their lives. Some were very obstinate that they were staying come hell or high water (again). But others said they were old and tired of it and wanted to move somewhere that they didn't have to worry about this again. Those people should not be forced to stay because the mayor would miss their property taxes.

12/10/2016 8:54:38 AM

yeah, that's no reason for taxpayers to keep propping this place up

12/10/2016 10:14:56 AM