Quote :

"Which, technically is correct isn't it?"

It will all depend on what they find and how you define collusion.

"Technically," its illegal for a campaign to accept material support from a foreign nation. The clearest evidence of that would be monetary support (i.e. Russia gave Trump money for his campaign operations). I think one could easily make the case that running a pro-trump/anti-Clinton bot army is material support, assuming the Trump campaign was somehow aware that was Russia was doing this on their behalf. The Trump campaign accepting any hacked materials from Russia would also be material support. In practice, because the FEC is hopelessly fucking gridlocked by party-first Republicans, our entire election system is awash in foreign "dark-money" contributions. So it's easy to see how people believe this isn't quite illegal.

Where it gets ugly is if you consider probing election systems, bot-army propaganda campaigns, and a massive hacking campaign as a "cyber-attack" or an act of "cyber warfare." At that point you start to get into Treason, the Espionage Act, etc. I think clearing the bar of collusion gets more difficult here as you'd have to prove the Trump campaign provided aid, support, or comfort to an enemy (promises to lift sanctions, money flowing from Trump campaign to Russia, recommendations from Trump campaign on hacking targets, etc).

6/26/2017 12:17:34 PM

It isn't a narrative to imply that something is or is not illegal.

It is a narrative to suggest that something may have happened despite zero evidence.

6/26/2017 5:14:11 PM

so we've no gone full circle and trump is saying obama/clinton colluded with russia

6/27/2017 8:12:38 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdP8TiKY8dE

lmao CNN got veritased

6/27/2017 8:55:57 AM

Posting videos from the king of false narratives is so low energy.

6/27/2017 9:03:35 AM

It is never low energy to call CNN fake news, commie

6/27/2017 9:25:49 AM

When it comes to the Clintons' collusion with Russia, I keep hearing about this uranium mine, but it's always from the fringes. I can't see where a major network ever picked anything up about it.

Is there anything really there?

6/27/2017 10:17:48 AM

Snopes isnt hard to access.

6/27/2017 10:21:57 AM

I've never really considered snopes a trusted source.

6/27/2017 10:36:41 AM

how come?

6/27/2017 11:25:25 AM

Because snopes is just 2 people googling answers on the internet, and they have a political bias. It's an OK site for checking some things, but it is far from infallible.

6/27/2017 2:32:27 PM

can you give some examples of where they are wrong due to their bias?

6/27/2017 2:36:09 PM

Snopes shows leftist bias by taking a reasonable claim from the right, but they use an extreme straw-man version of the claim to shoot it down and say it is false.

6/27/2017 5:21:54 PM

is that an example?

6/27/2017 5:46:46 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

new york times

6/27/2017 5:50:39 PM

^That is by far a much better article on the entire situation than anything I've seen posted before (apologies if that has actually been posted on TWW before and I missed it).

6/28/2017 11:24:52 AM

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amp/fbi-interviews-employees-russia-linked-cyber-security-firm-kasperky-lab-n777571

This shit is getting weirder by the day.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-trump-campaign-chairman-paul-manafort-files-as-foreign-agent-for-ukraine-work/2017/06/27/8322b6ac-5b7b-11e7-9fc6-c7ef4bc58d13_story.html?utm_term=.5628b8a8305b


GUILTEEEEEEEEEE

6/28/2017 12:28:31 PM

^^ AFAIK the FBI still has an open investigation into the Clinton Foundation

6/28/2017 12:47:45 PM

I highly recommend folks do some googling and reading on "the foundations of geopolitics," Aleksandr Dugin, and Russophication. Especially those making weak "they didn't actually hack the voting machines!1!1'" arguments.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

Quote :

"Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."[1]"

Sound Familiar?

6/29/2017 12:58:37 PM

Yea, sounds just like the DNC's strategy.

6/29/2017 1:22:34 PM

^^,^

JCE2011 is quite obviously a paid Russian troll.

6/29/2017 5:30:40 PM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-operative-sought-clinton-emails-from-hackers-implied-a-connection-to-flynn-1498770851

Quote :

"WASHINGTON—Before the 2016 presidential election, a longtime Republican opposition researcher mounted an independent campaign to obtain emails he believed were stolen from Hillary Clinton’s private server, likely by Russian hackers. In conversations with members of his circle and with others he tried to recruit to help him, the GOP operative, Peter W. Smith, implied he was working with retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, at the time a senior adviser to then-candidate Donald Trump."

I will DIE if the Hillary's emails ends up being the white whale they chased for so long that it sinks them all.

6/29/2017 6:46:22 PM

^^ That is actually 100% the DNC's strategy. Divide and conquer.

You are this race? You're a victim because __________
You are this sex? You're a victim because _________
You are this gender? You're a victim because ________

We ran out of victims? Invent more genders! Import more victims!

6/29/2017 7:06:15 PM

[GOP]Christians are persecuted in America[/GOP]

6/29/2017 9:38:48 PM

Hold on, let me find that mess from Chit Chat......ahh yes.

Quote :

"White-knighting for the Russian traitor will get you no where."

6/29/2017 9:57:24 PM

It is hilariously ironic that Russia and the Marxist DNC have the exact same blueprint... convince Americans they are divided by race and oppressed.

It makes the witch hunt even more hysterical... all of the alleged evils you want to project onto Trump are things your side is doing. Who needs Putin when we have the culmination of the long march through the institutions that your side has allowed and supported?

6/30/2017 10:49:09 AM

moving this along
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-operative-sought-clinton-emails-from-hackers-implied-a-connection-to-flynn-1498770851

Quote :

"WASHINGTON—Before the 2016 presidential election, a longtime Republican opposition researcher mounted an independent campaign to obtain emails he believed were stolen from Hillary Clinton’s private server, likely by Russian hackers. In conversations with members of his circle and with others he tried to recruit to help him, the GOP operative, Peter W. Smith, implied he was working with retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, at the time a senior adviser to then-candidate Donald Trump."

[Edited on June 30, 2017 at 10:58 AM. Reason : .]

6/30/2017 10:57:49 AM

If you haven't been assuming this happened since like last September, then you haven't been paying attention.

6/30/2017 11:46:52 AM

If you aren't assuming enough assumptions about alleged possible things from anonymous sources without evidence, then you aren't reading enough Fake News

6/30/2017 1:18:58 PM

The WSJ is getting grouped in with Fake news now? What's left? Buttbart?

6/30/2017 1:20:26 PM

Anything with anonymous sources using countless qualifiers like

"likely, suspected, alleged, potential, possible"

Is narrative, not news.

6/30/2017 1:39:20 PM

If you haven't been assuming this happened since like last September, then you haven't been paying attention.

6/30/2017 1:40:59 PM

If you haven't been assuming this happened since like last September, then you haven't been paying attention.

6/30/2017 3:02:54 PM

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-does-your-favorite-news-source-rate-on-the-truthiness-scale-consult-this-chart-2016-12-15

6/30/2017 4:34:32 PM

That graphic isn't accurate... HuffingtonPost is the equivalent of Breitbart, yet you see it gets much more favorable placement. Even the bias representation shows bias.

Also, LOL @ confirmed Clinton shill Maggie Habberman of the Fake News NYT having to issue yet ANOTHER retraction to the Russia Narrative... where she claimed "17 intelligence sources confirmed"....

Quote :

"Correction: June 29, 2017 A White House Memo article on Monday about President Trump’s deflections and denials about Russia referred incorrectly to the source of an intelligence assessment that said Russia orchestrated hacking attacks during last year’s presidential election. The assessment was made by four intelligence agencies — the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the National Security Agency. The assessment was not approved by all 17 organizations in the American intelligence community."

The fact that "journalists" like Habberman land jobs at NYT after being caught acting as a Clinton hack should be all the proof needed to know that NYT is fake news

6/30/2017 5:00:22 PM

That's an interesting example. It's not fake news. If anything, it was a reporter/editor repeating a misconception-that when the DNI makes a statement, it represents all of our intelligence agencies. And retractions indicate taking responsibility for it.

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

Quote :

"Scope This report includes an analytic assessment drafted and coordinated among The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and The National Security Agency (NSA), which draws on intelligence information collected and disseminated by those three agencies. It covers the motivation and scope of Moscow’s intentions regarding US elections and Moscow’s use of cyber tools and media campaigns to influence US public opinion. The assessment focuses on activities aimed at the 2016 US presidential election and draws on our understanding of previous Russian influence operations. When we use the term “we” it refers to an assessment by all three agencies."

The report itself clearly states it is relying on the assessments of three specific agencies (although additional agencies, such as DHS, did contribute.

And again, aside from using the number 17 instead of three or four, the content is all truthful. So, once again, this is a right wing attempt to discredit the entire press because of a few inaccuracies that have been corrected, as is the case in journalism. Not fake news.

To add here (edit): You don't need a unanimous vote by all 17 agencies. The National Reconnaissance Office and the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, for instance, wouldn't really have much to say on a Russian cyber attack. Nor would the Department of Energy or Department of Treasury. Just as a few examples. Point I'm getting at is that the relevant agencies (CIA, NSA, FBI, DNI) are the only ones that would handle this. It's honestly perfectly fair to say all 17 agencies as opposed to saying 4 of the 17 (with 13 of 17 having zero input) agreed.

All that being said, this is similar to that bullshit Rachel Maddow piece on Trump's flawless tax return. It should never have happened. Should have simply stated the four agencies that DID reach the conclusion rather than trying to pad the stat with a higher number to attempt to give it more weight than it needed.

[Edited on June 30, 2017 at 9:48 PM. Reason : a]

6/30/2017 9:23:04 PM

what the hell does this have to do with russia-trump connections?

6/30/2017 10:00:25 PM

Stop arguing with JCE about news sources. Just stop. He isn't interested in anything but trolling. Take in from all sides and make decisions for yourself. Hell, even the Breitbart WH correspondent has asked relevant questions recently.

WSJ is actually taking the lead these days in breaking some news. IIRC, a cucked up Trump supporter on TWW cited them and The Economist as trusted sources recently.

6/30/2017 10:28:08 PM

https://lawfareblog.com/time-i-got-recruited-collude-russians

2nd account corroborating WSJs report a guy allegedly working for trump campaign was seeking collusion with Russia and possibly in comucatiion with a Russian hacker.

7/1/2017 12:41:05 AM

Quote :

"And again, aside from using the number 17 instead of three or four, the content is all truthful. So, once again, this is a right wing attempt to discredit the entire press because of a few inaccuracies that have been corrected, as is the case in journalism. Not fake news."

My fake news claim wasn't so much based on lying about 17 intel agencies and having to retract, so much as realizing the NYT hired Maggie Habberman, which speaks volumes on the organization and it's agenda.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3125945-Story-Memo.html

7/1/2017 10:56:17 AM

^ah, gotcha

7/1/2017 1:09:16 PM

^^ he could have been doing that independently thinking that it would help his boss.

7/1/2017 2:47:59 PM

Quote :

"2nd account corroborating WSJs report a guy allegedly working for trump campaign was seeking collusion with Russia and possibly in comucatiion with a Russian hacker."

this pains me to even quote this.

I've also heard the main stream media is allegedly praying to the blood of goats and toad eyeballs that President Trump is exposed as someone who makes other people brush his teeth.

Story to follow...

7/3/2017 12:38:12 PM

Jebus what a weirdo

7/3/2017 12:39:50 PM

I'll post more when I get confirmation from other anonymous sources, but the story should definitely spread like wildfire, because IT COULD BE TRUE.

7/3/2017 12:53:52 PM

That chart is hilariously biased itself, and from a biased person.

Do a quick review of Ms. Otero's twitter feed (in reverse chronological order):

Quote :

"The four Republican Senators opposed to the health bill right now are opposed because it's not mean ENOUGH Republicans saying the real scandal is the leaks is like a cheating partner saying "the real problem is that you looked at my texts" Comey: The President fired me bc Russia and also he is a liar. Rs: Yes, but 1) Hillary's emailz? 2) Isn't all the bad news fake? Everyone: I am concerned that 45 is ruining democracy 45: I am concerned that public servants are telling the press I am ruining democracy The cosmos have aligned so that the most prominent racists from US business, journalism, and music are in Saudi Arabia being nice to Muslims If 45 continues to do almost nothing the entire time he is president, to me that is preferable than having him actually do things. One thing that helps me (a moderate-lefty) stay sane is following non-crazy Repubs on twitter like @Evan_McMullin and @BillKristol. Try it. You are amazing, and we didn't deserve all your dedication, love, and grace.Vanessa Otero added, Hillary ClintonVerified account @HillaryClinton I'm here today to honor our democracy & its enduring values. I will never stop believing in our country & its future. #Inauguration "

LOL at NPR, BBC, NYT, WaPo, CBS, ABC, NBC being "in the middle" and "great sources of news," and Slate and Vox as "slightly left" and "analytical," and for CNN for being "in the middle"

I'm not denying I'm biased, but to try and convince others that you aren't biased by attempting to group "news sources" as non-based is silly.

Maybe she was hoping for reverse psychology?

7/3/2017 1:07:25 PM

What in the fuck is even going on? I remember this guy being very conservative but made some semblance of sense. Now it's just non-sensical gibberish.

[Edited on July 3, 2017 at 1:26 PM. Reason : Who the hell is Otero? Why is this in this thread? ]

7/3/2017 1:25:44 PM

^ the result of not looking into the graphic and just believing what you read on the internet and responding to it without context.

btw...HIS NAME WAS SETH RICH.

7/3/2017 1:45:28 PM

Quote :

"just believing what you read on the internet"

But if the topic isn't selected, framed, and spun based on leftist agendas, who will tell me what to think?

Where will I get muh narratives from?

7/3/2017 2:18:41 PM

Wow, if even right wing wackos with no connection to the administration other than defending it on the internet are losing their minds as the noose tightens on Trump, imagine what must be going on inside the White House.

7/3/2017 5:57:31 PM