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UJustWait84
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The 'real' season starts on Saturday. As confident as I was that the Warriors would win last year (d'oh ), I think I like their chances even more this year. They have a much easier path to WCF, while the Spurs have an absolute gauntlet- assuming they can even get past Memphis.

For the East, I think the Cavs did themselves a huge favor by getting the 2 seed. Matchups with the Bulls and Wizards would be a lot tougher than than Pacers or Raptors. As good as Boston is, I still think the Cavs will coast to another ECF and beat them.

Worthless predictions:

WEST
Dubs over Blazers in 4
Clippers over Jazz in 6
Spurs over Griz in 6 (although I could also see Memphis upsetting them)
Rockets over Thunder in 5

Dubs over Clippers in 5
Rockets over Spurs in 7

Dubs over Rockets in 6

EAST

Celtics over Bulls in 5
Wizards over Hawks in 6
Cavs over Pacers in 5
Raptors over Bucks in 5

Celtics over Wizards in 6
Cavs over Raptors in 6

Cavs over Celtics in 6


Dubs over Cavs in 6

4/14/2017 2:46:33 AM

Kickstand
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It'd be nice if they went ahead and eliminated all the teams with 0 chance and skipped to the WCF & ECF. Fans would be happier I think.
Teams with a chance to win:
Warriors
Spurs
Celtics
Cavs

4/14/2017 10:52:45 AM

UJustWait84
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Seriously TWW? I know it was Easter weekend, but some games were pretty good.

The Clippers meltdown at the end was very nice and the Boston game was a good one too. The Warriors game was a little too close for comfort up until the 4th quarter, but I don't see how Portland can win more than a game or two when only their backcourt can score. OKC/Houston is going to be over pretty quickly and the Spurs/Griz series isn't going to be as close as I thought.

4/17/2017 12:50:32 PM

jocristian
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The Chicago/Boston game was ugly. Thomas was basically the only consistent playmaker on Boston and late game was got blocked like three trips in a row. Then Smart and Crowder were bricking jumpers all day....it's just not an attractive game.

Chicago's offense is perhaps the ugliest of all the teams in the playoffs and had they not killed the celtics on the boards, they lose yesterday.

4/17/2017 1:34:38 PM

JCE2011
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Spurs 2017 NBA Champions

Unless the based god lifts the curse on KD

4/17/2017 3:31:16 PM

sag1804
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I tried to pay attention. Is it bad I put a simple 20 on a game and don't even remember if I took the Hawks plus 5 or the wiz minus 5. Either way, just saw the score. FUDGE

4/18/2017 2:10:03 AM

Sleik
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Freaky Greeky in playoff form is going to be interesting to behold

4/18/2017 2:15:13 AM

face
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Of all the great predictions I've made here I think my best in ever were kawhi Leonard and james harden. They are easily 2 of the top 5 players in the league now along with Curry, durant, and lebron

I put my money on washington at 10:1 to win the East.

Thoroughly enjoying the waxing harden is putting on that Westbrook fraud.

Sorry I forgot to post prior to the first few games of rd 1 but here is what I would have said

Boston in 6
Cleveland in 5
Toronto in 6
Washington in 5

Washington in 6
Cleveland in 7

Washington in 7

Golden State in 4
San Antonio in 4
Houston in 5
Utah in 7

Golden State in 5
Houston in 6

Golden State in 4

Golden State in 4



Obviously that Utah in 7 id probably switch to clippers In 7 now that Gobert is hurt... I think the cells will come back but Toronto is clearly in big danger of losing to Milwaukee. Im just sticking with my pre playoff beliefs.

I'd give golden state over Cleveland in 5 maybe. But they are way to overpowering for anyone else



[Edited on April 18, 2017 at 2:35 AM. Reason : A]

4/18/2017 2:25:04 AM

TreeTwista10
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One of the best seasons ever = fraud

4/18/2017 7:46:09 AM

shoot
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Quote :
"Washington in 6
Cleveland in 7

Washington in 7"


That's bold.

Cleveland in 6 over Boston

4/18/2017 9:16:38 AM

UJustWait84
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^^

he kinda is though. Triple doubles aren't as big of a deal as they used to be (look how many other players got this season compared to several decades ago), and he willingly gave up a ton of open looks just to pad his assist stats. He's a great player, but he'll never be like LeBron who can basically carry an entire team on his back to coast to the Finals. [/hottake]

4/18/2017 2:33:59 PM

jbrick83
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Quote :
"and he willingly gave up a ton of open looks just to pad his assist stats."


He has the worst 3pt shooting teammates in the league (not that he's that great). And Steven Adams has probably bumbled away around 100 easy baskets. If he had average shooting teammates, he would still get those assist numbers without "giving up a ton of open looks".

I get the "stat padders" arguments. I don't agree with them...but I get them. But all you had to do was watch the final stretch of the regular season and see how Westbrook single handedly won them the Magic, Mavericks, and Nuggets game. He did it three times in like 10 games and I don't think any other player put up that type of performance once this year. He had the most "clutch" points in the league (was close to beating the all-time mark).

He's just a freak.

4/18/2017 3:06:24 PM

Doss2k
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Yeah I would say more his team is a fraud but they are only even in the playoffs because of him.

4/18/2017 3:37:13 PM

UJustWait84
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^^ he should win the "most triple doubles in a season when playing on a crap team" award, NOT the most valuable player in the NBA award.

4/18/2017 4:44:06 PM

TreeTwista10
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If it's so easy to get triple doubles, how come he's the 2nd person to ever average one over the course of a season?

While averaging 10 minutes per game LESS than the Big O, fwiw

4/18/2017 5:05:50 PM

UJustWait84
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"Yep. Too bad his team sucks. I still think KD is a much better player overall though. He's been carrying the Ws this season with awesome offensive and defensive play night after night. He won't even be considered for the MVP, which I think is a shame, because he's surrounded by lottery picks, All-Stars, and the reigning back to back MVP. Regardless, any player averaging a triple double per game should probably win the award, which is why it's Westrbook's year."

4/18/2017 5:17:54 PM

justinh524
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If it's so easy, why hasn't LeBron done it?

4/18/2017 5:19:37 PM

JCE2011
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Because most stars on a bad team don't care about averaging an arbitrary double digit for a stat?

Quote :
"Westbrook has piled up uncontested rebounds, including the most rebounds on missed free throws of anyone in the league by a wide margin."


It's impressive, it just doesn't matter.

4/18/2017 5:29:26 PM

TreeTwista10
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I like how to contrarians and Warriors fans, triple doubles just don't matter anymore. When a few years back, people were like "omg man Lebron has like 10 triple doubles this year, he's amazing"

When Oscar averaged a triple double, he was 3rd in MVP voting. Wilt should've won it that year averaging 50 and 25 but he didn't win. MVP voting has been fucked forever

[Edited on April 18, 2017 at 5:33 PM. Reason : Kobe]

4/18/2017 5:31:44 PM

UJustWait84
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I just think it's funny how riled up everyone gets whenever I say something that isn't Westbrook devotion/adoration. I also think it's funny that people would rather get into a pissing contest about the MVP award than to actually discuss what's going on this playoffs.

4/18/2017 5:45:22 PM

thegoodlife3
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there were also a ton more missed shots when Oscar averaged a triple double

there's no denying that Westbrook chased stats and that his team wanted him to average a triple double

that doesn't mean it isn't impressive as fuck, though

4/18/2017 5:45:26 PM

face
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Russell Westbrook contested less opponent 3pt attempts than deandre Jordan for God sake.

He got his rebounds by not playing defense and grabbing uncontested boards and misses off free throws.

Harden put up virtually the same numbers without all the ball hogging and bricks which allow his teammates to flourish.

4/18/2017 7:14:47 PM

jbrick83
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Harden also has much better shooters and a much better system. This is the Nash-2X-MVP system.

4/19/2017 7:20:30 AM

JCE2011
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Quote :
" triple doubles just don't matter anymore"


They don't for a point guard. A PG leading the team in rebounds is not a sign of a good system... even if they are just easy defensive rebounds the team yields to Westbrook.

Also consider Westbrook has 9 turnovers a game, completely negating his assists if we can agree a turnover is typically more costly to a team than an assist is helpful.

And yes, he is leading the league in points, but he isn't efficient. 42% is bad even by Kobe standards.

4/19/2017 10:10:33 AM

jocristian
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Looks like the one-man shows don't work very well in the playoffs--especially when your one-man show is a 5'7 defensive liability, but maybe also when your one-man show is a triple-double machine. Who knew?

4/19/2017 10:27:38 AM

jbrick83
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^^ Harden has more turnovers than Westbrook.

4/19/2017 10:36:46 AM

dmspack
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Quote :
" but he isn't efficient"


he has a player efficiency rating that's highest in the league.

4/19/2017 10:55:21 AM

jbrick83
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^

#alternativefacts #fakenews

4/19/2017 11:07:29 AM

JCE2011
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PER rewards inefficient shooting

4/19/2017 11:09:23 AM

jbrick83
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An efficiency rating rewards inefficiency...right...

PER is still measured against the rest of the league. Low shooting percentages still bring down your PER...it's just that Westbrook's numbers are so ridiculous everywhere else that it doesn't bring them down low enough...at least compared to the rest of the league...which is what we're doing here.

4/19/2017 11:29:55 AM

JCE2011
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Quote :
"Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots.""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_efficiency_rating#Problems_with_PER

Westbrook's usage rate this season also set the record, 42.5% vs 2006 Kobe's previous 38.7% usage rate. Everyone else is averaging 90% of Westbrooks stats with much less usage. They just don't use up as many of their team's possessions.

4/19/2017 11:41:58 AM

jbrick83
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Quote :
"Berri leads off with a huge misunderstanding of PER—that the credits and debits it gives for making and missing shots equate to a “break-even” shooting mark of 30.4% on 2-point shots. He made this assumption because he forgot that PER is calibrated against the rest of the league at the end of the formula."

4/19/2017 11:53:37 AM

JCE2011
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Right, PER is a comparative statistic that is adjusted by league averages. And still, players who don't take a lot of shots are punished.

There is also a very strong correlation between usage rate and PER, if you give any of the other MVP contenders 90% of Westbrook's usage rate, they would easily surpass him in every metric.

Does anyone have Kobe Bryant's PER for his last game? Just curious. I'd imagine we can all agree that was awful efficiency yet I would bet PER would rate that higher than it should be, given its favorability towards high volume shooting.

4/19/2017 12:24:14 PM

UJustWait84
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Boston being down 0-2 and having to go on the road is not good. Sucks that Thomas' sister got killed in that car wreck, because I don't see them coming back, given the way they're playing. Face may very well be right about the Wizards challenging Cleveland for a Finals spot.

And as far as this asinine RW debate, the one thing I'll say is that it's pretty dumb to give him so much credit for being a triple double machine, while crying about his supporting cast being so dreadful and arguing that he's done everything single handedly. No, he doesn't have much talent around him, but it's not like you can get a triple double without the help from your teammates- they do have to actually score points when you pass them the ball and pass to you so that you can score from time to time. My biggest knock on him is that he doesn't really make the team much better and he hasn't helped to elevate his teammates all that much either. Again, he's no LeBron, so his chase for all these triple doubles when it didn't really matter seems more about his own ego than actually helping his team contend for a title.



[Edited on April 19, 2017 at 3:09 PM. Reason : .]

4/19/2017 3:02:40 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"My biggest knock on him is that he doesn't really make the team much better and he hasn't helped to elevate his teammates all that much either. "


how many wins does OKC have if he isn't on the team?

4/19/2017 3:26:30 PM

TreeTwista10
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UJustWait's argument is that since Westbrook isn't Lebron, he's not that good.

4/19/2017 3:27:25 PM

thegoodlife3
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they lost a top 5 player in Durant and were only 7 games worse than last season

yet Westbrook doesn't make his team that much better?

4/19/2017 3:36:49 PM

UJustWait84
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No, my argument is that you can't have it both ways.

You can't say he's this phenomenal player that does everything by himself and blame his supporting for being hot garbage, when that shitty supporting cast has helped him chase his triple doubles all season long.

I already said he should win the MVP award, what more do you want from me? The case could easily be made for Harden too, but if it came down to it, I doubt OKC's record would be all that different, while Houston might actually be a bit better if they traded places.

This MVP bitchfest isn't like last season where it was a unanimous decision. This is more about personal preferences, while the MVP has often been about the best player on the best team, or just a popularity contest since there's no real stand out performances. It's a big deal to get so many triple doubles, but how he got them warrants some criticism.

[Edited on April 19, 2017 at 4:20 PM. Reason : .]

4/19/2017 4:10:55 PM

TreeTwista10
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I can only imagine how much praise you'd be heaping on KD or Curry if they averaged a triple double. And if Harden wasn't chasing his own triple doubles, or we didn't have talking heads giving contradictory hot takes just because, it would be a unanimous MVP this year as well.

[Edited on April 19, 2017 at 4:27 PM. Reason : .]

4/19/2017 4:23:42 PM

UJustWait84
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If either of them were doing it on the current Ws team, they'd be the clear MVP winner this season, not RW. Hell, if it were Curry, he'd have 3 consecutive MVPs, two of them unanimous.

Anymore dumb hypothetical we'd like to toss out? Or are we done crying about RW getting criticized, while still (probably) winning the MVP this season.

4/19/2017 4:53:45 PM

JCE2011
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The triple double doesn't matter. Asides from how base-10 and double digits are arbitrary already... rebounds, especially defensive, especially in the small ball era, especially among point guards, don't matter.

Especially when your team is helping you pad your stats.

http://stats.nba.com/events/#!/?flag=1&GameID=0021601135&GameEventID=338&Season=2016-17&title=Westbrook%20REBOUND%20(Off:1%20Def:10)&sct=plot

Westbrook is having a great season, but its because of his scoring and assists. Him chasing defensive boards over teammates doesn't give him an edge over more efficient players with better records, no matter how big your boners get over triple double hype.

4/19/2017 5:00:48 PM

TreeTwista10
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You're just hating on him, not criticizing him. If he decided to jump ship for Golden State, you'd be his new #1 fan though.

[Edited on April 19, 2017 at 5:01 PM. Reason : ^^]

4/19/2017 5:00:59 PM

jbrick83
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He hates on him because Curry is a little bitch and Westbrook is a man-child.

He's in constant defense mode. Curry is a finesse player, a media darling, and a rich, daddy's boy. Westbrook is brute strength, full speed, hated-on more than anyone besides Lebron, and a poor kid from Cali. And he put together one of the greatest seasons ever...and Golden State fanboys are hating on him like crazy.

4/19/2017 9:29:45 PM

TreeTwista10
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I wonder if Draymond has kicked a ref in the nuts at any point in his career

4/19/2017 11:17:45 PM

UJustWait84
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^^ great game RW played tonight. Totally helped them win.

I don't even need to hate on him. He's accomplished jack shit, and he never will at OKC.

[Edited on April 19, 2017 at 11:39 PM. Reason : loser]

4/19/2017 11:39:04 PM

TreeTwista10
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I hope the Dubs leave like the Raiders

4/19/2017 11:49:06 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"He's accomplished jack shit, and he never will at OKC. "


Quote :
"6× NBA All-Star (2011–2013, 2015–2017)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2015, 2016)
All-NBA First Team (2016)
4× All-NBA Second Team (2011–2013, 2015)
2× NBA scoring champion (2015, 2017)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2009)"

4/20/2017 12:23:29 AM

UJustWait84
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^^ well they're moving to SF in a few years, but I'm not exactly crying about it. I'm a 9ers fan, so I'm glad the Raiders are leaving. Hopefully the A's will get a shiny new stadium.

Keep the personal attacks coming guys

^ All those great individual achievements, yet he can never help his team get over the hump.

[Edited on April 20, 2017 at 12:47 AM. Reason : .]

4/20/2017 12:46:11 AM

thegoodlife3
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way more than jack shit, though

and something legitimate basketball fans know

4/20/2017 12:50:38 AM

UJustWait84
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fair enough, although I was mainly just being hyperbolic to troll jbrick because he's so in love with him. I still don't know what more you people want from me. 51 points is quite the effort, but he sure did deliver a classic RW choke job in the 4th though going 4-18.

I'd forgotten how salty TWW NBA fans are in general. I'm sorry the Hornets sucked this year and all you REAL fans only follow players and not teams. It's pretty fun to be a Ws fan right now since I have four All stars on my team to root for

[Edited on April 20, 2017 at 12:57 AM. Reason : .]

4/20/2017 12:55:00 AM

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