User not logged in - login - register
Home Calendar Books School Tool Photo Gallery Message Boards Users Statistics Advertise Site Info
go to bottom | |
 Message Boards » » 2018 Toyota Supra / BMW Z5 Page [1]  
0EPII1
All American
39766 Posts
user info
edit post

Huh, what are they doing together in one thread? That because they are being jointly developed and will [probably] share engines, but have their own unique sheetmetal! Since when did Toyota and BMW ever have any collaboration?



ENGINE

Quote :
"Under the hood is reportedly either a BMW-sourced inline-six cylinder engine, or a 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine aided by a pair of BMW electric motors. You might remember the project is being jointly developed with the German marque in co-development of the new Z5. Expected output is anywhere between 350-400 horsepower (260-298 kilowatts)."


Engine choices are a mystery till now. This guy does a great job of discussing what's known about the Supra, and his own informed speculation, along with spy pics and renders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZIyGYkviY
Feb 2017: He says the top model will probably have a TT'ed version of the V6 in the IS350, and that it will be on the same platform as the Lexus LC500.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNr8NMDMVJw
May 2017: Now he has revised his speculation and says it will probably be the S55 (top) and N20 (base) from BMW, as well as a BMW chassis, and will be made at Magna Steyr in Austria, which makes several BMW and Mini models.

If true, that means the whole thing will be European, except for the sheetmetal (which is Californian LOL)!

In the second video, he also shows collages of pics to scale he has put together to show the size of the car, from the front, back, and side, in comparison to the 86, MKIV Supra, and LC500. The comparisons led him to the above conclusions.

It will most probably be a 370Z competitor, and not an NSX or GT-R competitor, with the top model coming in at 350-400 hp, and speculation based on comments by designers suggest a $60K tag. A hybrid model might come out later.




TRANSMISSION

8-speed DCT!

A 6-speed manual might find its way inside the base model, if there is any.




IN ACTION

Watch it on the Nurburgring:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85qbZZbaULE




DESIGN

It will be heavily based on the FT-1 concept -- designed at CALTY -- that came out at the Detroit Auto Show in 2014. Yes, it will have the double-bubble roof as on the concept, and it will be strictly a 2-seater.

Red FT-1 in the flesh at Irvine Cars and Coffee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiQGOGFQ66s

Toyota brings red FT-1 to Jay Leno's Garage and sends the two designers to chit chat with Leno!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v_FA0cjwuo


CALTY released a graphite-colored concept later in 2014 (original in red), and that looks way better.

Graphite FT-1 at an auto show (where it debuted) being driven on the grass:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF2cfzJKbUY


Slider to compare MKIV Supra with FT-1:
https://www.motor1.com/news/93863/2018-toyota-supra-everything-we-know

Awesome pics of both the red and graphite concepts and all past Supra gens for us oldies
https://www.motor1.com/news/93863/2018-toyota-supra-everything-we-know

Spy pics of Supra and Z5 together in the snow:
https://www.motor1.com/news/139798/toyota-supra-bmw-z5-spied

Spied up close at a gas station:
https://www.motor1.com/news/139465/2018-toyota-supra-spy-shots/

Beautiful studio shots of the graphite FT-1:
http://www.supraft1forums.com/forum/9-2018-toyota-supra-ft1-general-discussion-forum/2833-toyota-ft-1-concept-graphite-saddle-revealed-pebble-beach.html

Lots of nice side-by-side comparo pics between the FT-1, original render (see pics at bottom), and car from spy pics:
http://www.supramkv.com/threads/our-new-supra-renderings.574
Pages 1, 3, 4 are good




PICS

Original red FT-1 concept:

















Graphite FT-1 Concept:















Renders by http://www.supramkv.com/threads/our-new-supra-renderings.574 (click for more)







5/15/2017 1:29:23 AM

0EPII1
All American
39766 Posts
user info
edit post

Forgot to say, Supra Concept, which will basically preview the production model, will debut in October at the Tokyo Motor Show.

I hope we get some concrete engine/performance info soon!

5/15/2017 2:29:42 AM

TKE-Teg
All American
42080 Posts
user info
edit post

If it looks anything like those last few pics, we're gonna have problems.

Also, I'm pretty sure this car is already being judged (and rightfully so) for having BMW engines. Still, preferable to using another boring corporate V6

5/15/2017 8:31:07 AM

tchenku
All American
18332 Posts
user info
edit post

judging from the nurburgring video, yes, you will have problems

5/15/2017 2:17:50 PM

0EPII1
All American
39766 Posts
user info
edit post

^^ Do you like the FT-1? If so, do you wish the Supra came out looking exactly like that?

Either way, what power level should it ideally have? 350-400 hp to compete with the 370Z or 500-600 hp to compete with the GT-R and NSX?


^ Do you like the rendering? What about the FT-1? Which one do you like more, and do you wish the Supra came out looking like the one you like more, or do they both fall short?

And can you also please answer the power question I asked TKE above?


I really like the FT-1 concept, more so in graphite, but I prefer the rear of the render, and the rest from the FT-1. Mix those two, and it would be perfect.

As for power, if it is going to look like the FT-1, it looks more like a 450+ hp supercar. It would look, IMO, out of place if a production car that looked exactly like the FT-1 had 350 hp. I think it is that F1 nose that does it. The render looks like a 350 hp car.

Ideally, it should be revived as a new generation of the Supra, which means it should pick up where the previous one left off. The previous had 320 hp in the top model, so the new one should have ~350 hp, and should retail for 35-45K depending on options, with perhaps a base model with ~250 hp coming in at 25-30K.

However, considering that the 86 is 26-32K, the hypothetical base 250 hp Supra will be 30-40K, and the hypothetical 350 hp model will be 45-55K.

In comparison:

332 hp 370Z is 30-38K,
332 hp 370Z Roadster is 42-48K (40% premium over coupe? Never seen that before for any convertible)
350 hp 370Z Nismo is 42-46K

5/15/2017 10:29:05 PM

tchenku
All American
18332 Posts
user info
edit post

If going with the supercar FT-1 look:

THIS is what the Supra should look like, inacce$$ibility be damned.

I always imagined the Supra as a corvette-fighter, so I'd stick with 600+hp. Z06 MSRP is $84k so I imagine the supra would at least match that. The Supra needs to stay in this league.

And considering its GTR and NSX brethren are coming in at $110k and $156k respectively, I think the Supra is likely going to fall in the 6-digit range. And yeah, that graphite is

I know corporate wouldn't give a rat's ass, but I hope it's going to have a bullet-proof engine worthy of the 2JZ legacy. It should come out at least 700whp-capable like the GTR's. It should not have a fancy hybrid system mucking up the aftermarket potential.

-------------------------------------
If it ends up like the dumpier version towards the bottom:

Yeah, that looks like 300-400 hp, and I think it would be a poor decision on Toyota's part. That level of car is already there: the RC350. Put it on a 400 lb diet and give it a manual transmission option.

The Supra would simply be an RC under a new skin, and having the Supra in this league will taint its history.

5/16/2017 8:33:42 AM

tchenku
All American
18332 Posts
user info
edit post

threw that thing into photoshop to minimize the nose. I mean, it'd make a cool FRS


[Edited on May 16, 2017 at 8:55 AM. Reason : ]

5/16/2017 8:55:17 AM

TKE-Teg
All American
42080 Posts
user info
edit post

OEPII1, you'd be happy with 350hp...20 YEARS after it made 320?!? Talk about setting the bar low lol.


Quote :
"I always imagined the Supra as a corvette-fighter, so I'd stick with 600+hp. Z06 MSRP is $84k so I imagine the supra would at least match that. The Supra needs to stay in this league.

And considering its GTR and NSX brethren are coming in at $110k and $156k respectively, I think the Supra is likely going to fall in the 6-digit range."


The hell? Sure the Supra was a Corvette fighter...a base Corvette fighter. It was never built to compete with the ZR1 which was the top Vette of the 90s. Nor was it ever a direct competitor to the NSX, which was always $30-40k more expensive.

The FT-1 looks amazing. The renderings/best guess (based off spy photos) look horrible. Very frumpy and plain. There's no way that Toyota is going to let the GT86 (nee FRS) look better than the new Supra, let alone look inferior to a 7-8 year old 370Z. Also latest rumors have been suggesting this car will be priced similar to the MkIV when it went out of production so that's promising.

5/16/2017 9:09:06 AM

sumfoo1
G.S. 20-63(d)
40927 Posts
user info
edit post

I will agree with this ^

however the stock supra.... held it's own against even the ZR1.

Truth is... i'd like to see this car cost between 50 and 80k and have 450-650hp depending on where it falls in there.

The O.G. supra isn't really light but if this weighs more than a mustang it will probably be ignored.

If this has a "toyota impossible to tune" ECU like many lexus performance models have this will sell as fast as....

well the lexus performance models. ...

I'd like it to have a back seat (again like the mkiv) but maybe have a light weight model without it ?

5/17/2017 10:34:37 AM

Hiro
All American
4541 Posts
user info
edit post

I like the idea of selling 2+0 and 2+2 models. Unfortunately, even with the Lotus Evora, the populous prefers the 2+2. That makes the feasibility of a 2+0 even harder of a reality for automakers...

5/17/2017 7:01:15 PM

 Message Boards » The Garage » 2018 Toyota Supra / BMW Z5 Page [1]  
go to top | |
Admin Options : move topic | lock topic

© 2017 by The Wolf Web - All Rights Reserved.
The material located at this site is not endorsed, sponsored or provided by or on behalf of North Carolina State University.
Powered by CrazyWeb v2.37 - our disclaimer.